Emasher Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Well yes, obviously. But politicians are supposed to serve us, not the other way around, so everything should be done to benefit the voter/public. Although what should be done and what is done will probably never be the same thing. I was more responding to "It's weird that" than anything else. It would be a difficult sort of law to write though. How do you account for the fact that circumstances could have changed? What happens if a promise made isn't possible to keep for whatever reason? What constitutes making a promise in the first place?
Blade Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 Yeah it's weird that there's no law to make sure they actually enact any of the policies they promise during the election. They could literally make shit up for two months, and then do whatever they want when in power. They could but it would be political suicide. The Lib Dems are getting punished for this over their pledge not to increase tuition fees but we all know what happened there. The problem with enacting laws based on election pledges are that the parties do not really know the current position until they are in government. Examples of this are the Tories pledge in the 2010 election campaign not to increase VAT. Once in government, they did. Why? Well they cite that once in government they the situation was worse than they forsaw whilst in opposition. Again with the lib dems with their no tuition fee increase pledge. Part of coalition negotations was that they dropped this in order to be part of government. The main thing is that it is extremely rare for a party to be elected with more than 50% of the vote.
jayseven Posted March 29, 2015 Posted March 29, 2015 There are additional reasons for why promises can't always be kept. For any new law to pass it must go through a rigorous system (here). Currently there is a bill called the Consumer Rights Act 2015, which has taken over 3 years to get through the above process and is still not completely finished. It intends to replace several other laws, make more simple a few more, and overall ensure that people have a more concrete idea of what rights they have for returning goods or complaining about services. It is aiming to close loopholes about 2nd-tier ticket sellers (touts, or ebay), and even introduce refund rights for digital content that does not match the quality the consumer expected. It was introduced by the conservatives, then the lib dems got involved and caused everything to be delayed, then the lib dems changed their minds and let the plan go ahead with amendments, then labour MPs got all picky about one aspect or other. List of bills that the residing government 'lost'.. Part of the reason for the delay; the non-elected parties may try to make the progression of any new bill as difficult as possible. The country is never fully run by any one party, and the reporting of any progress or governing is constantly full of bias and spin. One reason for delay for the above bill; they wanted the bill to be law for 2 years, then have the bill brought back into parliament for assessment of how well - or poorly - the intended purpose of the new law had been achieved. This seems sensible as it allows for alterations to the law to get the intent back on track -- yet immediately it is called into question because it may be that the conservatives are looking to leave 'a mess' for a different government to clean up. All-in-all, I know very little about politics but I do appreciate that it is difficult for a party to make promises when they literally cannot guarantee things. I think the general public is too under-informed, or under-educated about politics, and too over-reliant on the news/media to interpret events - and I think the media's role hasn't necessarily meant that politicians then act better... I don't know. It's too complicated!
Fierce_LiNk Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Anybody else watching the debate? I wish Ed Miliband would stop speaking into the camera like he's delivering a Shakespearean monologue.
bob Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 I'm surprised Cameron has spent this long on stage without feasting on the blood of a newborn baby.
dan-likes-trees Posted April 2, 2015 Posted April 2, 2015 Anybody else watching the debate? I wish Ed Miliband would stop speaking into the camera like he's delivering a Shakespearean monologue. Yeah tried to pull off a 2010 Clegg but couldn't really pull it off. His weird clasped hand move doesn't help. Aside from that, thought he did pretty well? Becoming a lot less like an alien, hit some good points. Very impressed by Nicola Sturgeon - what a presence! Glad she wasn't leading the charge in last year's referendum. Fantastic to watch anyway. Loved Farage blaming everything on forgeiners with aids and all the rest kicking him down. What a nutcase.
gaggle64 Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 I'm surprised Cameron has spent this long on stage without feasting on the blood of a newborn baby. The masters of the Hollow Earth have trained him well. Thought Nicola Sturgeon came out very strong. All the women did really. As a prospective Green I think Natalie B could've afforded herself some bigger punches but I feel like she, Nicola and Leanne Wood had more sincerity to offer then the big four.
sumo73 Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 I did watch most of the UK debate last night but will make my final decision on who to vote for by reading a general view of each parties manifesto first and choosing the best one. In a long time, for me I don't see enough difference in some political parties so I need to see their manifesto's first. Since Wales and Scotland were represented in some way last night how comes Northern Ireland was left out? I know there is a debate on 28 April on UTV but seriously someone should have said someone yesterday.
nekunando Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 I tuned in for the second half of the debate but The Weakest Link was on instead..
Corsair Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 There's a great video by CP Grey explaining why you'll always end up with two parties with our current voting system. The alternative vote system would have solved this, but unfortunately morons voted no on using it. The 1987 election is basically the primer on why FPTP is a farce. The results show up the ridiculousness of the system. The material that was provided by the No campaign in the AV referendum was laughable and downright dishonest in places but with no heavyweight politicians making the case for it it was always dead in the water. Anyway my prediction is a Labour minority government with the SNP providing confidence and supply, and we will be back holding another election before the year is out. A sort of modern retelling of 1974.
Mandalore Posted April 6, 2015 Posted April 6, 2015 (edited) Used a different questionaire to the ones posted already, which seemed to explain things better and have less ambiguous answers in it: https://uk.isidewith.com/political-quiz Edited April 6, 2015 by Mandalore
Rummy Posted April 7, 2015 Author Posted April 7, 2015 (edited) Ha. After all this hoohah I didn't even know there was a debate on. Worth trying to see if it's available anywhere, or just more the same/usual? Who was on it? Where was it on? EDIT: Ah nvm I found it, ITV it seems? 2 hours? May have a crack at it tomorrow if it's on the catchup. No idea if ITV catchup works on anything connected to my TV though, and I hate doing catchup on the computer. Edited April 7, 2015 by Rummy
Mr-Paul Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 I forgot to visit this thread as much as I should have IT'S ELECTION DAY PEOPLE, REMEMBER TO GO AND VOTE! Even if you don't want to vote for any of the candidates, please go down and just spoil your ballot to show your disapproval. Staying at home achieves nothing. Yes, you may live in a safe seat which means your vote won't change anything, but please, please have your say. It's so important for our democracy. Can a mod (@Rummy) change the thread title telling people to go vote? Who's staying up all night for the results? I am!
Hero-of-Time Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 I've done my part. I'm 32 and this is the first time I have ever voted. It's probably due to the fact that it's the first time i've ever felt so strongly about some of the issues that have been brought up in recent years.
Eenuh Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 I wish I could go and vote, as I do feel strongly about some of the issues in this country. Bit annoyed that I won't have the option to have a say in it. Though after looking into the voting system in the UK a bit more, I have to say that it makes absolutely no sense and just seems like a very unfair system, where small parties never get anything. Basically it looks like it will pretty much always end up being a battle between Conservative and Labour, which is just ridiculous. Would be nice for the UK to get a fairer voting system, one that isn't stuck in the past and tied to a "one party should rule the country" theory. Coalitions are common in other countries and work fine, and they give smaller parties the chance to get in too. In any case, if you have registered to vote, then please go and vote!
Mr-Paul Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 Yep, we need serious electoral reform to a more proportional system. I actually went and protested to the Lib Dems about it the day after the last election, that didn't end up changing a lot! Hopefully another hung parliament and more power for the left wing parties will help bring an end to our very unfair system.
Grazza Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 Yep, we need serious electoral reform to a more proportional system. I actually went and protested to the Lib Dems about it the day after the last election, that didn't end up changing a lot! Well, we did get a referendum on Alternative Vote, but personally I voted against it as I think all forms of AV are overcomplicated. I'm in favour of full Proportional Representation like we have in the Euro elections.
Serebii Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) I still have only the smallest idea of what each party's policies are at the moment because they've wasted the last month of campaigning just to slag eachother off, saying "Don't vote for X" rather than "Vote for us, here's why" I voted based on what I do know and could find out, though, as well as based on past performances of all parties going back 40 years. Edited May 7, 2015 by Serebii
The Bard Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 Anybody else watching the debate? I wish Ed Miliband would stop speaking into the camera like he's delivering a Shakespearean monologue. If yawning when someone else yawns is called a sympathetic yawn, then the tightness in my chest and the sense of panic I feel whenever Miliband opens his mouth in a debate can only be called a sympathetic heart attack. I don't have much flair for or interest in politics since it consists of supremely untalented people pandering to positions that no sane person actually holds, but that come out of groupthink, and which almost always exist only as a means to provide a set of contrasting policies to the nearest competitor. You can never really take either of the big parties on their word, and your voting decision then just becomes a matter of figuring out what the parties general ethos is, which is all most people are really capable of basing their vote on anyway - to be an informed electorate you have to have a decent, disinterested grasp of economics and also realise that not only will any incumbent government have very little room to manoeuvre, departmental bureaucracy and hung parliaments are going to make it almost impossible to effect any meaningful change anyway. To be honest, the only reason you definitely should vote is because a greater voter turnout better reflects the political dispositions of the country. But then, that's only a good thing if you believe that the political character of the country as a whole is good for the country as a whole.
Rummy Posted May 7, 2015 Author Posted May 7, 2015 I forgot to visit this thread as much as I should have IT'S ELECTION DAY PEOPLE, REMEMBER TO GO AND VOTE! Even if you don't want to vote for any of the candidates, please go down and just spoil your ballot to show your disapproval. Staying at home achieves nothing. Yes, you may live in a safe seat which means your vote won't change anything, but please, please have your say. It's so important for our democracy. Can a mod (@Rummy) change the thread title telling people to go vote? Who's staying up all night for the results? I am! Ask and you shall receive! Also I kinda want people to go and vote too. I've just been to my local polling station on my way home(plus was an excuse to jump work early :p)
Mr-Paul Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 I voted, for Labour in the parliamentary vote and Lib Dem for the district council. The only other options for the local one were UKIP and the Tories so had to go for the least bad option! My vote in the main one is pretty much wasted because of living in a safe tory seat - according to http://www.voterpower.org.uk my vote is worth 0.13 of what it should if things were proportional! To make up for my main vote being useless, went to the nearby marginal seat to help the Labour campaigners for a couple of hours, leafletting and making sure people could get out and vote. Really excited and hopeful that we get David Cameron out of power tonight
nightwolf Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 I wish I could go and vote, as I do feel strongly about some of the issues in this country. Bit annoyed that I won't have the option to have a say in it. Though after looking into the voting system in the UK a bit more, I have to say that it makes absolutely no sense and just seems like a very unfair system, where small parties never get anything. Basically it looks like it will pretty much always end up being a battle between Conservative and Labour, which is just ridiculous. Would be nice for the UK to get a fairer voting system, one that isn't stuck in the past and tied to a "one party should rule the country" theory. Coalitions are common in other countries and work fine, and they give smaller parties the chance to get in too. In any case, if you have registered to vote, then please go and vote! This is why I'm 24 and I've only just voted. It's incredibly confusing. If my housemate hadn't sat down and explained literally everything I'd still be as confused as ever.
bob Posted May 7, 2015 Posted May 7, 2015 I voted, for Labour in the parliamentary vote and Lib Dem for the district council. The only other options for the local one were UKIP and the Tories so had to go for the least bad option! My vote in the main one is pretty much wasted because of living in a safe tory seat - according to http://www.voterpower.org.uk my vote is worth 0.13 of what it should if things were proportional! To make up for my main vote being useless, went to the nearby marginal seat to help the Labour campaigners for a couple of hours, leafletting and making sure people could get out and vote. Really excited and hopeful that we get David Cameron out of power tonight Hmmm, apparently my vote is worth 0.537. Still not great though. I hadn't realised how marginal my constituency is though. Fingers crossed!
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