General Switch Discussion

[Ganepark32]

In the run up to Skyward Sword being released, it was as if they were reading my mind. I wanted them to go with a water coloured look (check) and I wanted them to do a more open design to dungeons, ala the desert area in Darksiders 1 (check) but the execution missed the mark by a long shot. The limitations of the hardware really did hold the game back but I think the general ideas that they built the game around left a lot to be desired. Seriously, multiple battles with the Imprisoned, poorly designed dungeons and locations and some Twilight Princess-esque collectathon parts (the musical note fish in one are for example) are just some of the things I didn't like about it. Thats before the controls which were good on paper but again didn't really add as much to what I wanted them too (motion controls for swimming were completely unnecessary as well).

It would have to be completely revamped for me to be interested because I'd put it as one of the weaker 3D Zelda titles. I'd even put Twilight Princess ahead of it. Thats an opinion that will no doubt ruffle some feathers but as I say, its my opinion (I just liked the darker tone to that game and even with the bait and switch with antagonist, I still think it came together better even with having to collect the twilight tear things).

I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be true to tie in with the Zelda anniversary next year. I'd prefer the Wind Waker HD remake come over to Switch and the Twilight Princess one as well. They'll probably come too cause if they're bringing Skyward Sword, why not.

[Julius]

58 minutes ago, Helmsly said:

Out of curiosity, do any of you think the Switch will get a first party title from Nintendo before the end of the year that isn't a port of some kind? Generally by this time of year in the past, we would have a good idea of what will be out before Christmas. Things are obviously different now with the effects of Covid slowing down development of everything, but with with Nintendo doing things such as announcing Paper Mario just two months before release back in May, I wonder if something like that will happen again before the year is out. I won't be buying Pikimin 3 or Super Mario 3D world (if that gets announced). I am unsure about Skyward Sword also as my Wii U is still set up and I can play my Wii copy on that. I'd like to think we have something else to look forward to before next year outside of Pokemon Snap (which I am looking forward to).

Optimistically I would love to think so, but realistically...it's hard to think so. 

I do feel like it's been a weird year for them as it is, because strictly speaking in terms of big first party offerings (totally subjective, but by this I mean "big name franchise" - something which I think demands a sizeable marketing campaign on its own to back it up), we've had Animal Crossing: New Horizons, Xenoblade Chronicles: Definitive Edition, Paper Mario: The Origami King, and we've got Pikmin 3 Deluxe coming up, as well as Bravely Default II (which I don't think we have a release date for yet?). Two of those are remasters/ports, and Animal Crossing originally got delayed out of last year if I recall correctly, so even just going from that it feels like this year wouldn't have stacked up to be much more than it has been, and I'm not too sure COVID has actually made too much of a difference to their slate so far. This isn't me complaining, by the way, I've had a great time with the games I've played on Switch, just think it's seen stronger years. 

As @Ashley sort of hinted at, we're in this weird space between the first round of games in a number of franchises and their sequels, as well as having a number of projects way off in the horizon (Bayonetta 3, Prime 4). Yes, there are new installments on the way - I think we get the next 3D Mario, BOTW2, and the next Pokémon game, their big hitters, within the next two years - but more immediately, there isn't much to grab onto, and in the next six months to a year, I think COVID is surely only going to become more noticeable in how much it's pushed some games back. I think we're going to see a lot more ports, out of necessity for these companies to have a revenue stream if nothing else, and not just from Nintendo. 

I'm just not sure what else we can seriously get. Pikmin 3 Deluxe being revealed for release in October suggests to me that Bravely Default II is most likely releasing after that point, so assuming that's in November or December and that 3D World Deluxe and/or a 3D Mario Collection rounds out the year by releasing in the month that doesn't, and I don't think there's much more they might have to release by the end of the year. That would be strong by itself, and I'd be happy as someone who hasn't played those games being ported before, but again, if that's how it plays out, it would be another two ports, and then a sequel to a game in a series which is fairly niche, even by JRPG standards.

They could certainly still have a Direct and prove me completely wrong, of course, and I'm ready to be blown away if that is the case. But I'm definitely going into the end of the year more focused on the next gen consoles and trying to temper my own expectations, at this point I'm trying to not get excited about a 3D Mario Collection either just in case that doesn't play out the way it's been rumoured to. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Julius

[Sheikah]

Nah, mate. Not ignoring that one. Skyward Sword has my favourite combat in all of Zelda history. It rewards calm, measured swings and flailing randomly will just get you battered. No other Zelda swordplay comes close to the depth Skyward Sword has.

Is this a joke?

 

[Ronnie]

5 hours ago, Glen-i said:

Nah, mate. Not ignoring that one. Skyward Sword has my favourite combat in all of Zelda history. It rewards calm, measured swings and flailing randomly will just get you battered. No other Zelda swordplay comes close to the depth Skyward Sword has.

I agree with you, but a shoutout to...

In many ways the precursor to SS's combat.

[Ike]

6 hours ago, Ronnie said:

In the past 14 months: Mario Maker 2, Fire Emblem Three Houses, Luigi's Mansion 3, Astral Chain, Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3, Daemon X Machina, Ring Fit Adventure, Pokemon Sword/Shield, Animal Crossing, Paper Mario, 51 Worldwide Classics.

Yes ports are on the way this year too, it's ok.

Yay, lists! That’ll prove your point. You do realise that Nintendo only developed 3 of those games you listed. What have they been doing all this time?

32 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I agree with you, but a shoutout to...

In many ways the precursor to SS's combat.

It really wasn’t...

37 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

Is this a joke?

 

 

I agree with @Glen-i  not sure what your video proves?

[Sheikah]

I agree with [mention=16048]Glen-i[/mention]  not sure what your video proves?

That video is a tongue in cheek reflection of a common opinion at the time - that the game controls were often imprecise with Link often ending up doing the wrong move.

[drahkon]

6 hours ago, Ike said:

What have they been doing all this time?

Apparently milking and rehashing everything they've done before. Thank God for the thriving indie scene on Switch, otherwise I'd have huge buyers remorse with this console.

[markderoos]

I think the problem with Skyward Swords controls (or motion+ controls in general) is that they reliy a bit too heavily on the experience /skill of the player. That’s why some people love the game while others hate it I think.

People who’ve put hours into Wii Sports Resort Table Tennis for example know what I’m talking about. Waggling around too excessively will completely mess up the aim ending up in what seems like unresponsive aiming or even totally unintentional commands.

Motion control by its nature is far more unforgiving than the press of a button. But if done right, much more enjoyable.

Edited August 17, 2020 by markderoos

[Glen-i]

5 hours ago, Sheikah said:

7 hours ago, Ike said:

 

That video is a tongue in cheek reflection of a common opinion at the time - that the game controls were often imprecise with Link often ending up doing the wrong move.

I mean, all I can really give to you is that the three times I've played through it, it's been very accurate.

There's a initial learning curve as you learn what the Wii Motion Plus is capable of recognising. I remember having to unlearn winding my arm back before swinging because the controller would swing in the opposite direction if I did wind my arm back too fast. But after I got over that hurdle, it was all smooth from there.

@markderoos mentioned Wii Sports Resort, which basically has the same swordplay as Skyward Sword (And archery). No-one complains about the controls in that game. But Skyward Sword gets criticised because... Well, I'm still not sure why that's the case.

[Ashley]

Perhaps because that's the whole game, whereas with Zelda you may be playing the game for the story but if the controls don't gel you're screwed. I could see why you may be more critical of their implementation within a game compared to a minigame.

[Ronnie]

3 hours ago, drahkon said:

Thank God for the thriving indie scene on Switch, otherwise I'd have huge buyers remorse with this console.

I assume you'd say the same about the Vita then? A handheld that actually had no games on it, apart from indies. 

9 hours ago, Ike said:

Yay, lists! That’ll prove your point. 

Excuse me?

It's a very easy point to prove when the original post I was replying to was so badly thought out.

9 hours ago, Ike said:

You do realise that Nintendo only developed 3 of those games you listed

You do realise that Nintendo only has 6 internal development teams, and the list I posted was based on the past 14 months?

EPD 3 (Zelda): Working on BOTW2
EPD 4: Released Ring Fit Adventure under a year ago
EPD 5 (Splatoon, Animal Crossing): Just released AC
EPD 8 (3D Mario): Working on Odyssey 2?
EPD 9 (Mario Kart, ARMS): ?
EPD 10 (2D Mario): Released Mario Maker a year ago

9 hours ago, Ike said:

What have they been doing all this time?

Putting out 11 original games in the past year?

9 hours ago, Ike said:

It really wasn’t...

What a well thought out counter-point.

Zelda II was all about thoughtful swordplay, knowing whether to swing high or low, or from above or underneath. It was far more tactical than most Zelda games in terms of combat and that eventually translated into Skyward Sword.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Ronnie

[Sheikah]

3 hours ago, Glen-i said:

I mean, all I can really give to you is that the three times I've played through it, it's been very accurate.

There's a initial learning curve as you learn what the Wii Motion Plus is capable of recognising. I remember having to unlearn winding my arm back before swinging because the controller would swing in the opposite direction if I did wind my arm back too fast. But after I got over that hurdle, it was all smooth from there.

There was a move where you had to raise the sword in the air and hold it a second for it to power up or something. I found it could be pretty frustrating and unforgiving at times. The problem I found with a lot of the motion controls was that it was dependent on the Wii mote, which itself was not the perfect tool for accurate motion controls. Like you say, there might be a learning curve to do the motion controls "just right" so that the game would like it. This is not what motion controls should be IMO, they should be intuitive and adapt to ways that people are likely to perform them.

Quote

@markderoos mentioned Wii Sports Resort, which basically has the same swordplay as Skyward Sword (And archery). No-one complains about the controls in that game. But Skyward Sword gets criticised because... Well, I'm still not sure why that's the case.

Probably because one is a Zelda game and the other is a gimmicky sports game follow up (one that I didn't even play, mind). I'm guessing you can also ignore that game in Wii Sports Resort if you so wish. You can't avoid these particular motion controls in Skyward Sword.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Sheikah

[Kaepora_Gaebora]

I just wish they'd show us something, to be honest! 

I've put my Switch on a handful of times since losing interest in Animal Crossing after about a month, and it's frustrating having nothing to look forward to properly.

The only remake I'm particularly interested in is a Star Fox Zero one (yes I know, but I love a bit of Star Fox and I really enjoyed Zero personally) apart from that, I would love to see some new reasons to get hyped for my Switch and dusting it off.

I'm thankful Nintendo are riding high again after the murky Wii U times, even though I really enjoyed the games that were being put out on that and personally had a great experience with it, but in the last year I've had very little reason to play my Switch and feel that Nintendo magic! 

 

[euroninfan]

@Kaepora_Gaebora yes they really do need to release some totally new game. i bought a few games  which cost around 500 euro but i just keep playing fortnite

[Josh64]

Nintendo's communication seems really utterly terrible lately, I personally love getting hyped for a game even if it is a year or two out, at least I know there is something to look forward to. As such, I think a Direct would be great right about now, even if it was showing off games that are a year or two away. The reveal of Paper Mario and Pikmin 3 are especially low, there was so little effort in announcing them that it dampened my expectations and almost made it feel as though Nintendo themselves aren't too confident/proud in the games. 

 

 

 

[drahkon]

2 minutes ago, Josh64 said:

The reveal of Paper Mario and Pikmin 3 are especially low, there was so little effort in announcing them that it dampened my expectations and almost made it feel as though Nintendo themselves aren't too confident/proud in the games. 

The thing is, they know they don't need to do more. There's so little coming out that even mediocre games sell a shit ton because people are starving for games.

For me, however, this sucks because I'm not interested in these games and the big hitters are years away. I agree with you that Nintendo should at least show something, even if the games won't be with us for a year or two.

[Josh64]

On 16/08/2020 at 7:04 PM, markderoos said:

I can see Rhythm Heaven, Art Academy, Nintendogs, Style Savvy, Wii Sports, WarioWare, Mario Golf, Mario Kart and Donkey Kong getting a(nother) game on Switch.

I’d prefer the usual suspects (Excite, Wave Race, F-Zero, Strikers, 1080, Kid Icarus, Punch Out, Advance/Battalion Wars) but I don’t think any of those will happen.

a totally new Pikmin or Star Fox, or a successor to Ice Climber, Doshin, Wrecking Crew or Eternal Darkness would be more than welcome too but I don’t see that happening either.

I love many of the games you mentioned but fear Rhythm Heaven, Nintendogs, Wii Sports and Wario Ware are slowly fading into Wave Race and F-Zero territory. Wii Sports, even just a port, would do gangbusters as is evidence by people clamouring over any and all third party sports offerings that are barely half decent but Nintendo seem dead-set on killing any remains of the Wii brand and Mii's. 

The previous WarioWare game was a 'best of' semi-remake for 3DS that didn't sell too well, before then it went for a different approach with Game&Wario in 2013 which sold terribly, before that we had those WarioWare DIY games, and before then we had WarioWare Smooth moves in 2007. So in my eyes, discounting spin-offs and remakes, the last real WarioWare title was 2007. Again though, that's a bit hyperbolic of me to say as the other games are good and shouldn't be dismissed, just seems as though Nintendo have been experimental and in result not monumental with sales. 

Rhythm Heaven also had a 'best of' 3DS game, with the Wii game before that being 9 years ago. Again just like Wario it seems they're reluctant to make a real new entry almost decades apart. 

And Nintendogs is Nintendogs, I just think that ship has sailed, similar to the other franchises I just think if Nintendo had much faith in it surely we'd have had another entry by now, it's only seen 2 releases in its 15 years of existence. 

A new Donkey Kong would be fantastic but this is Nintendo lol, Rare has been gone for nearly 20 years yet they're still undecided on a core developer for the franchise - Retro were the closest we had but with Prime 4 they're not gonna have their hands free for a good few years. 

Edited August 18, 2020 by Josh64

[Jonnas]

11 minutes ago, Josh64 said:

I love many of the games you mentioned but fear Rhythm Heaven, Nintendogs, Wii Sports and Wario Ware are slowly fading into Wave Race and F-Zero territory.

"Slowly"? Wii Sports was Wii only Nintendogs was also DS only

IMO, People put too much stock into "series". The truth is, some ideas are good for a spell/generation, and then developers move on to something else. F-Zero is a good example, because that series only lasted two games on Nintendo's mindset before they moved on (GX wasn't made by them). Starfox is another one fans treat like it should have presence every console/generation, despite its resumé being only slightly better than F-Zero's.

Sorry to go on a tangent, but remember around... 10 years or so ago, when the main complaint was the "lack of new IPs"? Such a silly complaint in retrospect, since it was smackdab in the middle of the generation that birthed three of the franchises you just mentioned. Kind of fascinating to see how much the debate shifts.

Edited August 18, 2020 by Jonnas

[Sheikah]

2 hours ago, Josh64 said:

Nintendo's communication seems really utterly terrible lately, I personally love getting hyped for a game even if it is a year or two out, at least I know there is something to look forward to. As such, I think a Direct would be great right about now, even if it was showing off games that are a year or two away. The reveal of Paper Mario and Pikmin 3 are especially low, there was so little effort in announcing them that it dampened my expectations and almost made it feel as though Nintendo themselves aren't too confident/proud in the games. 

You're right. I'm basically the kind of person that doesn't actively seek out Nintendo news but I generally hear it at some point through sites such as Eurogamer.

What is happening on Switch right now? All I know of are Metroid Prime 4 in the works (delivery date: who knows) and...Pikmin 3? I heard there were plans to release old 3D Mario games (e.g. Sunshine) and the like...was that ever confirmed?

This really comes back to a point I made some years back....Nintendo had a great first year but played many of their best cards there and then.

Edited August 18, 2020 by Sheikah

[Zell]

Nintendo really should be trying to do something this Christmas to try to steal some of the thunder away from PS5 and XSX. If they have no games, then a new Switch model or a discounted Switch bundle. The message would be simple: instead of £500+ on a new console, get a Switch and a game for half as much.

They do tend to deliver in peaks and troughs. I love my Switch but since COVID I've had little reason to play it.

[Goron_3]

I've just seen the Skyward Sword posts and....eugh. That game summed up everything wrong with Nintendo in that era, and thankfully served as the kick up the backside that led to the much more impressive BoTW.

The Matthewmatosis critique of SS sums up many of the games issues but frankly speaking, any combat system where the main controls work less than 100% of the time is unacceptable. Fundemantally, the sword fighting just wasn't fun, and watching an enemy come up to you with a giant horizontal gap in his shield just felt silly after a while. What I always found funny is that after you initially stun an opponent with a motion controlled hit, you were encouraged to waggle the controller as quickly as possible for the follow up hits. Wind Waker and Twilight Princess had better combat imo, but credit to Nintendo for actually trying to implement sword controls.

I am feeling a bit bored of my Switch at the moment. My 3 most recent purchases have been Animal Crossing, Xenoblade and Luigi's Mansion but I stopped playing all well before the end. I've said it before but Nintendo really need another AAA single player title alongside Mario and Zelda. Metroid probably could occupy that space but we're still years away (I doubt it will even release on this Switch). 

On the other hand, it's meant that I've been able to sink my teeth into other current gen games (Resident Evil 2 Remake, Red Dead 2) so it's not all bad

[LazyBoy]

It's been almost 13 years since Metroid Prime 3 came out. 

Just wanted to share my sadness.

[Zell]

Regarding Skyward Sword: that game's problems run deeper than just the motion controls. So even if they fixed them / allowed the option to play it conventionally, I don't think I'd be champing at the bit to replay it.

Now if they were to re-release Four Swords Adventures on Switch with online multiplayer you would have my attention.   

[Josh64]

8 hours ago, Jonnas said:

"Slowly"? Wii Sports was Wii only Nintendogs was also DS only

IMO, People put too much stock into "series". The truth is, some ideas are good for a spell/generation, and then developers move on to something else. F-Zero is a good example, because that series only lasted two games on Nintendo's mindset before they moved on (GX wasn't made by them). Starfox is another one fans treat like it should have presence every console/generation, despite its resumé being only slightly better than F-Zero's.

Sorry to go on a tangent, but remember around... 10 years or so ago, when the main complaint was the "lack of new IPs"? Such a silly complaint in retrospect, since it was smackdab in the middle of the generation that birthed three of the franchises you just mentioned. Kind of fascinating to see how much the debate shifts.

WiiU had Wii Sports Club and Wii Fit 2 (Plus Plus? Extra? I can't remember the name lol) and Nintendogs & Cats was on 3DS! But that's kinda what I mean by them fading off as none of those were anywhere near the success of the predecessors and most people don't even remember them  

 

And you're right, 10 years ago saw the birth of so many great things and more recently we've had Splatoon and Mario Maker so it does at least seem that Nintendo's lack of new IP is a relic of the past. 

[bob]

Is Mario Maker a new IP, or just a spin-off?