Super Smash Bros. Ultimate

[S.C.G]

Mr. Sakurai presents a fighter from ARMS Roundup

And here's the N-Europe roundup article for the latest character reveal.

Full press release, video embed of the presentation and an excuse to use that lovely piece of promotional artwork.

I thought it was a fantastic presentation, Sakurai did really well with the presentation and Min Min is an excellent addition.

I'm planning on buying that second fighters pass for certain, ready for next week.

[Jonnas]

Min-Min's looking good. Good on them on announcing "A mysterious ARMS character. Could be anybody!" and delivering on that promise.

I hope she's not too good at edgeguarding. One of the guys at my local scene is going crazy for her, and I know he's got the playstyle to make her work.

As for me, I'm looking forward to kicking your collective arse with her, except on any stage made by RedShell. You'll be seeing some of that Heihachi and Fallout Boy on my Miis, too.

*sob*  Why, Heihachi, why? I didn't want you, I wanted Jin, but this deconfirms him too... But this means... Lloyd Irving's still on the table!

3 hours ago, Dcubed said:

Spirit Character Slot Blocking is now officially not a thing... Which means that Shantae still has a chance!

[Sprout]

This is Mr. Sproukurai.

Yes, I returned! And with a rather pleasing result, as far as my personal wishes are concerned.Which are also apparently Mr. Yabuki's wishes. I still remember how he absolutely styled on the winner of the ARMS Open Invitational as Min Min at E3 a few years ago, and I'm glad to hear he's still fond of the character to the point where he would tell Sakurai to use her for Smash.

As thankful as I am, I still probably wouldn't eat any noodles he's been swimming around in, though...

Anyway, it's a little late, but as promised, it's time for some self reflection on those predictions I made. @Glen-i has apparently already delivered judgement, but I figured I'd still offer my input. It's been a while since you've had to suffer a lengthy post of mine, so, enjoy? Or don't. Read what ya wanna read, pal.

Fighter Prediction Results:

Quote

-There will be only one fighter from ARMS.
There won't be additional characters used for alternate costumes.

Win Win! As expected, the first three alternate colours are the same alternate colours she uses in ARMS.

Quote

-The fighter will retain their unique traits from ARMS.
In Min Min's case, she would be able to use kicks (that could also deflect projectiles if it's not considered too unbalanced for Smash, and transform her left arm into its dragon form.

Win Win! This was actually the main reason why I thought there would only be one fighter from ARMS. Whilst they all look like they perform the same, each fighter has their own unique traits, and as strong as the cast of ARMS is, it would have been a shame to strip them of their abilities just to cram more of them in. That being said, I admittedly expected the dragon transformation to last for as long as she isn't hit, rather than it having what I assume to be some sort of time limit. Not a completely faithful implementation, but I'll chalk it up to balance reasons.

Quote

-Only the fighter's signature ARMS will be used in their moveset.
The fighter will only use the three ARMS they start with in ARMS. In Min Min's case, this would be the Dragon, Megawatt and Ramram ARMS.

Win Win! I actually didn't expect you to be able to change ARMS on the fly, but to use specific ARMS for specific moves (I did expect the left ARM to always be the Dragon ARM, however, because she needed an ARM that could feasibly hold onto items or ledges at all times). Whilst everyone in ARMS is capable of using any of the ARMS, in my view the signature ARMS are part of that character.

Quote

-The fighter will be able charge their ARMS with down special.
You could potentially also charge your ARMS using the same methods used to charge ARMS in ARMS as well. Was that sentence a bit confusing to read?

Min Mixed. It looks like Glen-i considered this correct, but that's because he misread "charge" as "change". In ARMS, players can charge their ARMS in order to power them up and add additional attributes to them for a few seconds. However, in Smash, these charged punches only appear in Min Min's forward smash attack and attacks from her Dragon ARM when her left arm is transformed.So whilst charged punches are in the game, they aren't quite as heavily implemented as I anticipated.

Quote

-The fighter will have the Rush Gauge, and can use Rush when the Rush Gauge is full.
Activating Rush would also be done with down special.

Min Mixed. I'm being rather generous by saying it was mixed considering I was mostly off the mark, but I was at least correct that Rush is used. Just as a Final Smash instead with no Rush Gauge involved. It's somewhat of a shame, but considering the trade-off was having access to three variations of several attacks at any time, I think I'll survive. Giving her access to what would essentially be almost like a second Final Smash arguably would have been a bit much in hindsight.

Quote

-The extended grab from ARMS will be the fighter's side special move.
As for whether the move also functions as a tether recovery... consider me undecided!

Mino No... I thought that this was such a certainty because you can grab both on the ground and in the air in ARMS, but instead it's just her regular grab (with comparatively shorter reach).

Quote

-Neutral special will be a projectile move.
In Min Min's case it would be the Dragon ARM laser, but if you want a couple more examples, Spring Man would use the Tribolt ARM and Twintelle would use the Thunderbird ARM. Basically, the fighter would use an ARM that doesn't involve actually fully stretching their limbs.

Min Mixed. Again, I consider myself being rather generous here. Firing her Dragon ARM laser is possible with standard special, but she can do so much more. And unlike my claim, she fully extends her arm before the laser fires. I'm not even really sure the laser counts as a projectile, since you probably can't reflect it.

Quote

-Up special will be dependent on who the fighter is.
Twintelle doesn't require much imagination with her Parasol ARM, but other fighters from ARMS may have to get more creative. In Min Min's case, she could perhaps use her Ramram ARM as a makeshift propeller, or shoot her Dragon ARM downwards to propel herself upwards and punch a hole through demon king Ganondorf's chest.

Mino No... Whilst I knew a tether recovery for the up special was a very real possibility, I was somewhat hoping they'd go a different route considering two DLC fighters already make use of tether recoveries.That said, I like that the up special is different when used on the ground. It could prove useful to follow enemies extremely high up in the air.

As a side note, I did somehow guess Ganondorf getting a new chest cavity.

I guess Min Min prefers Ganondorf's Twilight Princess look.

Quote

-The Final Smash will be Hedlok Rush.
Chances that it will play a cutscene are DLC%.

Min Mixed. Well it is a Rush attack, and it is cinematic, but there's no Hedlok involved. After further thought, Hedlok would probably be better suited were it in a Final Smash for Max Brass or Dr. Coyle instead. In any case, with six other ARMS fighters joining the action for this Final Smash I guess you could say that seven heads and 14 ARMS are better than two heads and 6 ARMS. I know it might look strange but I assure you that the numbers there are correct.

Quote

-In addition to neutral and side special, the fighter will be able to stretch out their ARMS like they can in ARMS for at least their forward smash attack and one aerial attack.
Perhaps, similar to Mega Man, the fighter's jab, forward tilt and neutral aerial would all be the same move.

Win Win! By the way, as I was trying to speak about an ARMS fighter in a general sense, I didn't really to go into specifics about how I thought Min Min's kicks would come into play, but the upward and downward attacks, as well as dash attack, were about what I expected. The Street Fighter styled tap or hold for different versions of jab attack came as a nice surprise, though. Kinda wish they implemented that into her forward and back air attacks as well, in order to include additional kick attacks directly from ARMS, with the forward air kick being a meteor smash like Snake's.

Quote

-All moves that extend the fighter's ARMS can be angled upwards and downwards.
Of course, how extreme the angles will be will be dependent on the ARM being used.

Win Win! It bears repeating, but having three different versions of several moves, each with their own unique trajectories is pretty impressive. You can kind of understand how it took them so long to complete development of this fighter.

Quote

-Compared to the Belmont's forward smash attack, moves that extend the fighter's ARMS will have about 1.5x longer range.
This is about the same range that Spring Man has with his punches as an assist trophy. Naturally, the fighter will be wide open to attacks if they space these moves poorly.

Win Win! Well, not so much a win win if you're a Belmont... By the way, did you know that if you hit a wall with one of the Belmont whip attacks, that the whip will flail against the wall and it's hitbox will be cancelled, causing it to deal no damage at all? The whip was probably made that way so that you couldn't attack through walls, but for the whip to deal no damage as a result is somewhat tragic. Luckily for Min Min, she likely won't have this problem. 

Quote

-The fighter will be able to move about for moves where they extend their ARMS.
If you need help picturing this, their mobility whilst extending ARMS would be similar to when a character is holding the Daybreak item.

Win Win! Doesn't appear to be quite as quick as when holding the Daybreak, but you can certainly walk and jump, just like in ARMS. Generally speaking, they've done a very good job of implementing most of the core mechanics of ARMS into Smash.

Quote

-The fighter will be able to throw out a punch so long as they have a free ARM to do so.
In other words, you'll be able to throw out a right punch whilst your left ARM is in the middle of punching, and vice versa. The fighter's mobility mentioned in the previous point would be drastically reduced as a drawback.

Win Win! I certainly wasn't expecting that she'd be able to punch in both left and right directions, so that's a happy case of going beyond my expectations. With this, Min Min can cover the entire length of Final Destination with her punches!

Quote

-You won't hurt the fighter if you hit their ARMS.... but you can disable their ARMS if you hit them enough.
Basically, the fighter's ARMS will have their own health (you'll be able to see how damaged they are via a <!> icon displayed over their ARMS that fades over time as they recover). If you damage them enough without giving them a chance to recover, you'll disable them, making the fighter unable to use the ARM or shield for a couple of seconds. Use that opportunity to hit them with a strong attack!

Min Mixed. Ahh, my win win streak is over. It looks like Glen-i said I was wrong on this one, but I'd argue that that isn't completely accurate. Whilst you can't disable Min Min's ARMS, what remains true is that it appears that Min Min won't be hurt if you hit her ARMS whilst she's extending them.

So if you space your attacks well, you'll be safe from harm.

I thought that disabling ARMS would be implemented as a way to balance the fighter's long reach in order to stop it from being too safe, but I guess they didn't see the need to go that far.

 

Stage/Music Prediction Results:

This is not the stage I chose personally.

Quote

-The stage will be Sky Arena.
As the final setting for the ARMS Grand Prix, it's a fitting stage regardless of who makes it in. And because it's set on top of the ARMS Association HQ building, it means you can potentially have lower blast zones at the left and/or right of the stage. It's a bit of a stretch (sorry), but like Moray Towers, you could perhaps have the stage set at night when playing certain music track, just like in ARMS!

Mino No... Spring Stadium was my second choice, but I was a big fan of Sky Arena's aesthetic, and I figured Spring Stadium would end up being too similar to Boxing Ring. The reason for thinking that way is that I assumed that the ARMS stage would have more of a literal adaptation in Smash, and that's because I have the imagination of a brick. Luckily for everyone, I am not working on Smash, and my first impressions of this adaptation of Spring Stadium are pretty solid. I'm looking forward to giving it a try.

Quote

-The ARMS Drone will serve as a stage hazard.
It will periodically appear to drop items from ARMS. You can attack it to make it drop the item prematurely. As a reminder, there are four items in ARMS:
⦁    HP Juice - heals fighters within its area of effect. works similarly to the Healing Field item.
⦁    Rush Juice - increases fighter's Rush Gauge within its area of effect. in Smash, this could increase your FS Meter instead if you have it turns on.
⦁    Fire Bomb - delivers a large powerful explosion a few seconds after being dropped. The bomb can be moved before it explodes if you feel up to the risk.
⦁    Shock Bomb - delivers a large explosion a few seconds after being dropped that temporarily stuns anyone caught in its blast. Just like the Fire Bomb, you can try moving this explosive before it goes off.

Min Mixed. Correct that the ARMS Drone would appear to drop items, and that you could attack it to make it release said items, just wrong about the items being specifically from ARMS. Perhaps it's for the best... the thought of Isabelle being able to pocket a Fire or Shock Bomb is scary...

Quote

-The remaining cast of ARMS will appear as background characters on the stage.
This applies to the fighters of ARMS and also possibly Biff the commentator. Hedlok could also appear flying menacingly in the background. Just like in the King of Fighters Arena, only a small number of background characters will appear in any one fight, but you can make a character guaranteed to appear by selecting their home stage's music

Mino No... I'm honestly surprised that this wasn't the case, considering every single DLC stage prior to this one had these sort of cameos. They even have the models for some of them in Min Min's Final Smash! They may appear on a monitor in the background, but I was expecting a bit more than that. At least the stadium is packed full of supporters. If you look closely, you'll see they even have the Smash logo on their shirts.

Quote

-There will be a very small amount of music remixes included.
The majority of music included in this Challenger Pack will be lifted directly from ARMS. As for which tracks will be included, the ARMS theme, as well as every fighter's theme, feels like a fairly safe bet.

Win Win! Music from every stage in ARMS (including a couple of "boss" tracks that play when fighting on Sky Arena in Grand Prix mode), as well as the main theme, with only a couple of remixed tracks. Unlike my prediction about background cameos, this safe bet was actually in my favour.

 

Misc Prediction Results:

Quote

-Biff will commentate the Fighter's trailer.
This of course is dependent on how the trailer reveals the fighter, but as the one responsible for hosting the ARMS Nintendo Directs, it feels fitting to let him commentate as the fighter shows us what they're capable of.

Mino No... Whilst I feel a little sorry that Biff was left out, with the way that the trailer played out, his commentary would have probably been detrimental to it, so I'm glad to have been wrong on this one.

And speaking of the trailer, it sure was a great one! I'd put it up there with Robin's & Lucina's trailer for Super Smash Bros. for 3DS/Wii U. There's something about having both a character a lot of people are expecting to join Smash getting snubbed and the presence of Captain Falcon being... well, Captain Falcon, that seems to be a winning combination for Smash trailers, and I for one am all for it.

Quote

-If amiibo for the characters in Fighters Pass 1 or 2 aren't announced this year, they aren't happening.
More of a general prediction than one specific to this presentation, but they've been pretty silent on these things. Also if anyone wants to give me a Female Corrin amiino I'd appreciate it.

Min Mixed. More amiibo confirmed to be coming is great (except for your wallet), but it was explicitly stated that there's no guarantee that all remaining DLC fighters will receive amiibo. I do hope all four heroes are announced at somepoint, instead of just the one we saw today. Just think of how tiny Munchie would look!

...I wonder how problematic Min Min's ARMS will be if she gets an amiibo.

Quote

-If there are Capcom outfits in the latest Mii Fighters Costume wave, I'm gonna start sweating bullets or possibly crying, pal.

Win Win! I'm Team Marie, so naturally Marie of the Squid Sisters was one of the characters I wanted in Ultimate. I pictured her with a moveset centred around Splat Chargers (with the occasional appearance of the Splat Brella perhaps), but her chance as a fighter has clearly come and gone (if she ever had a chance to begin with, that is). If there's another Smash game in the future, we'll have to see how the future of Splatoon is developing at the time when considering any newcomers from that series.

In anycase, unless you're a fan of Heihachi, it looks like fans of third party franchises can collectively breath a sigh of relief for now!

...But there's five more Challenger Packs to go and a rogue Spirit Event could happen at any time.

-----

So there we have it. It seems like I don't have what it takes to try and lie my way into looking like a reputable Smash Bros. leaker for five minutes of internet fame, but at least it appears I was fairly on the money in regards to how a fighter from ARMS would function in Smash. I feel like I may be patting myself on the back a bit much here, but oh well.

ARMS was a game I enjoyed playing during the Switch's launch year, so I took quite an interest in pondering how someone from this game would function when the Smash announcement came around. And as mentioned, Min Min was my favourite character from it's great cast of characters, so once I saw Captain Falcon and Kirby slurping on noodles I was smiling from beginning to end. I'm looking forward to taking up ARMS again in Smash and trying her out for myself at the end of the month!

好吃!

Captain Falcon, I know it's been a long time since your last game, but have you really fallen on such hard times that you needed a new job to pay the bills?

[Dufniall]

15 hours ago, Dcubed said:

Finally.  A character being included as a playable fighter as the game/series' first rep does NOT have to be the main or co-protagonist now! This blows the doors wide open for representation of other game series now! (Meaning that Pyra from Xenoblade 2, or Kratos from Tales of Symphonia now have a chance!)

He did say though that he doesn't consider Spring Man/Ribbon Girl to be the protagonists though, but rather that the whole cast is a main character.

Anyway, great presentation. I just love his dry sense of humour (why ARMS? Because the ARMS producer told me they wanted ARMS in Smash). Also how he hid the amiibo behind his flowers haha. Also love the fact that his living room is basically a couch, 2 big ass TV sets and 10 or so game consoles. What more does a man need?

Min Min looks like a great and unique character. You just feel how much thought has been put into her, and that they really worked together with the ARMS team on this one. Only the final Smash is a bit disappointing, as it is basically similar to Hero/Mega Man's final Smash. 

Edited June 23, 2020 by Vileplume2000

[RedShell]

14 hours ago, Jonnas said:

As for me, I'm looking forward to kicking your collective arse with her, except on any stage made by RedShell.

Oh man, that’s cold.  

Anyway, cool character choice with Min Min.  Real shame she wasn’t the last fighter on FP#1.  Also, what’s up with Captain Falcon getting so much screen time during the reveal? That’s gotta mean something... right?  

*EDIT*

Hang on a sec, have they really not included this:

in the music selection for Min Min/ARMS?  Big mistake. 

Edited June 23, 2020 by RedShell

[Jonnas]

On 23/06/2020 at 10:10 AM, RedShell said:

Oh man, that’s cold.

No offense meant! I just mean that Min-Min seems useful in steady, plain terrain with clearly defined edges. Two properties that your stages avoid like the plague

[Glen-i]

Min Min being the first spirit to get the playable fighter promotion is no doubt gonna get a lot of fans being more vocal.

In other words...

Dear lord, what have you done, Sakurai!?

[Sméagol]

As long as they never put Waluigi in.

[bob]

As long as they never put Waluigi in.

[Sméagol]

1 hour ago, bob said:

Edited June 27, 2020 by Sméagol

[Tim B]

Does anyone know what time the update with Min Min will drop? I was hoping it would be here by the time I woke up this morning.

[Sméagol]

47 minutes ago, Tim B said:

Does anyone know what time the update with Min Min will drop? I was hoping it would be here by the time I woke up this morning.

I dunno what time, but the tweats I just read suggested tomorrow..

[Glen-i]

20 hours ago, Tim B said:

Does anyone know what time the update with Min Min will drop? I was hoping it would be here by the time I woke up this morning.

30th of June, you were one day early there.

Don't know the exact time though.

EDIT: Apparently, the update is out now?

Here's the list of all the balance changes.

Buffs all around! Only a couple of nerfs. Shulk remains untouched. Big sigh of relief from me.

Heads up @Dcubed Bayo got buffs! Well, apart from a small nerf to her Final Smash when it doesn't cause an instant KO.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Glen-i

[Jonnas]

Incineroar got buffed! His main kill move is stronger than ever! He can grab easier, and Revenge is safer to use! This kitty is smoother than ever!

Oh, and Min-Min's cool too, I guess.

[Dcubed]

My boy Ike got some NICE buffs too!  

 

I like this update! 

[drahkon]

How's the dedicated single player part of the game?

I've played the multiplayer quite a bit at a friend's place and it's obviously great, but given that I currently only use my Switch as a single-player machine I'd love to know whether it's worth the price.

[Nicktendo]

2 hours ago, drahkon said:

How's the dedicated single player part of the game?

I've played the multiplayer quite a bit at a friend's place and it's obviously great, but given that I currently only use my Switch as a single-player machine I'd love to know whether it's worth the price.

I got 30 hours out of the World of Light mode by the time I finished it but that was stretched out over months because it’s not so much fun to just do battle after battle. Each character has a solo classic mode run which takes about 10-15 mins to do, so there’s plenty of meat to that if you want to improve scores or Chase a 9.9. The single player stuff doesn’t seem as engaging as it was in Melee and Brawl or quite as deep, but over time and with decent breaks is fun to accomplish. 

The online is better than ever though In terms of stability, and with regular events, tournaments and timed spirits there’s plenty to do in that regard. I’d say it’s worth it. I’ve got 150 hours out of it since launch and never played locally with anyone. Most time invested in a Smash game since Melee, which I did play locally. 
 

[drahkon]

49 minutes ago, Nicktendo said:

The single player stuff doesn’t seem as engaging as it was in Melee and Brawl or quite as deep

Alright. Not for me then.

Thanks for the info

[Jonnas]

7 hours ago, Dcubed said:

My boy Ike got some NICE buffs too!

Funny thing, Ike's buffs. Ike had a gameplan based entirely on using Neutral Air for combos, but the patch changes made those unfeasible. People were calling Ike "ruined"... until they found the thing you just posted. Aether is actually a dope killing move now, and I love the notion.

It seems we only saw buffs this time around. Besides Ike and Incineroar, we also saw improvements for Capt.Falcon, Kirby, Dedede, Meta Knight, Diddy Kong, King K.Rool, Bayonetta, Mewtwo, Marth, Corrin, Villager, and (Dark) Pit. Characters who really needed them. Good stuff all around.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Jonnas

[markderoos]

@Glen-i how’s your spirit collection? I know you couldn’t get some during the quarantine or did you manage to get them afterall?

[Glen-i]

On 01/07/2020 at 6:19 AM, markderoos said:

@Glen-i how’s your spirit collection? I know you couldn’t get some during the quarantine or did you manage to get them afterall?

Still haven't got them, I'm hoping this update will let me catch up on the ones I missed.

Oh, and for the record. Ultimate's single player content is way better than Melee's. 72 unique Classic Modes (without DLC) and World of Light is far more appealing than the repetitiveness of Melee's Classic and Adventure Mode.

Brawl's Subspace Emissary still remains the king of Single Player though.

Ultimate really needs a Boss Rush mode, amazed they haven't done it yet.

[RedShell]

So for those with the fighters pass, what are your initial thoughts on Min Min?

Having played quite a few matches against her now, she seems like a very strong character, but also very technical. The way she can edge guard is particularly interesting, but there’s definitely some vulnerability there too when charging strong attacks, I managed to connect with several Falcon punches in the N-E games yesterday that I don’t think I’d have got away with against other characters.  

Also, do all of her moves allow you to adjust the arm angle, or only some of them? When I was using Kirby, it didn’t seem possible to bend the arm on the neutral B attack, is that the same for Min Min?

 

[Glen-i]

6 hours ago, RedShell said:

So for those with the fighters pass, what are your initial thoughts on Min Min?

Having played quite a few matches against her now, she seems like a very strong character, but also very technical. The way she can edge guard is particularly interesting, but there’s definitely some vulnerability there too when charging strong attacks, I managed to connect with several Falcon punches in the N-E games yesterday that I don’t think I’d have got away with against other characters.  

Also, do all of her moves allow you to adjust the arm angle, or only some of them? When I was using Kirby, it didn’t seem possible to bend the arm on the neutral B attack, is that the same for Min Min?

You're right, she's very technical. It takes some getting used to, using B for normal attacks as well as A. This is compunded even more by the fact that she can swap the Left arm between 3 different modes that make her harder to predict. And you need to be hard to predict, because if you flub an attack, there is SO much endlag, even more if it's blocked.

You can't bend the angle for the neutral attacks, instead you can move around and jump, (Kinda like Mega Man). Min Min can change the angle of her Smash attacks though. The amount she can bend her ARMS depends on the actual ARM she's using. Ram ram can bend a lot, the Megawatt can't bend that much.

You probably noticed, but Min Min can attack in two directions at once. This is great for Free-for-alls, and amazing if you have a Back Shield!

She definitely feels unique in Smash, and she's a lot of fun, although I'll never be amazing with her, I'm much better with characters that like to get right in your face.

The stage is tops though, I love the jump platforms and it's oh-so-satisfying to KO someone by jumping into them.
Not so keen on the music, however. Not a fan of the ARMS soundtrack in general. But the Smash remix of the main theme takes a song I thought was pretty meh and makes it really good. I always thought it needed more instrumentation and I was right.

A great start to the second pass in my opinion.

Edited July 3, 2020 by Glen-i

[BowserBasher]

I actually enjoyed playing as her, probably the most out of all the DLC released. She does take some getting used to but when you can land the smash attack with the big ball like arm, it sure does send people flying. 

[Jonnas]

23 hours ago, Glen-i said:

Min Min can change the angle of her Smash attacks though.

Also, when you fire the dragon's mouth, you can change the angle twice. As in, you can bend it upwards, then fire the blast downwards. Bonkers mindgames.