Mokong Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Found this artilce on the recent Nintendo shareholders meeting, thought it a bit interesting. http://hothardware.com/News/Nintendo-CEO-90-of-New-Gamers-Unable-to-Finish-Level-11-in-Original-Super-Mario-Bros/default.aspx?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter First of all, Iwata agreed that games have gotten easier, and he affirmed that the trend could be a reason that interest in the Wii U hasn’t been as strong as it could be. Still, he defended the company’s strategy for making games easier by revealing the results of gamer testing that Nintendo has conducted that demonstrates gamers’ decreasing ability to do well in games. “It may come as a shock to some of you that most gamers today cannot finish the original Super Mario Brothers game on the Famicom,” he said. “We have conducted this test over the past few years to see how difficult we should make our games and have found that the number of people unable to finish the first level is steadily increasing.” At this point, a whopping 90% of participants couldn’t finish the level. (We presume that means they used up their few available lives before having to restart the game.) He also noted that most didn’t understand basic game mechanics such as the run button, or that coins are to be collected and aren’t enemies, or the concept of a bottomless pit. About 70% died at the first enemy, and half of those died at that same spot twice. (Twice! At the hands [or lack thereof] of the first Goomba!) Participants said that they wanted the game to be easier, and that Mario should perhaps start the game with a sword or a gun. Some didn’t even realize that Super Mario Bros was an actual vintage game. If we can put on our old fart hats for a moment: What on earth is wrong with kids today? Mario was a famously tough game to beat, for sure--saying that you beat Mario was a legitimate boast among the neighborhood youths--but not being able to finish off the first level is ridiculous, and suggesting that the game should be made easier instead of begging to try the level again is offensive to our sensibilities. (Now if someone would hand us a handkerchief to wipe the soup off our chins, we’d appreciate it.) All joking aside, that’s a sad state of affairs for the gaming community in general and Nintendo specifically. Iwata, to his credit, sounds just as downcast about it as everyone else. “As a stockholder, you should be relieved to know that our games are easier in order to attract a wider audience,” he told the crowd. “As a gamer, you might feel a little sad, and you should be. It is quite sad.” Indeed. What make you of this? I'd say its not that hard to imagine given the amount of hand holding you get in most games today that the mechanics and concept of Super Mario Bros. might be fairly hard for "newer" gamers. Think I next time I have some of me cousins kids in the house I'll have to run this test myself and see how well they do On a personal note I do CLEARLY still remember my first time playing Super Mario Bros. (my first game too) and dying on the first goomba cause nobody explained the controls and I assumed up on the d-pad was to jump. here's a 5 year old video of me talking about that... skip to 7mins 20 sec for a "poor reconstruction" of that event
Cube Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 How many tries did they get? If it was based on playing until you get "Game Over" for the first time, then I would be included in that 90%. The first time playing (3DS Ambassador Program) I also died on that first Goomba multiple times. I've also never completed it. And I've been gaming for over 20 years.
Magnus Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Iwata runs a major video game corporation, so to him, it makes sense to see everyone as a potential gamer. So when he says "new gamers", he's clearly talking about infants.
Aneres11 Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Well I did the same with New Super Luigi U the other day I literally used all my lives on the first bastard bit as I could not control him! I had been playing DKCR on the 3DS though prior to that and DK is a whole lot bulkier and slower than Weegee! But yeah... interesting read!
Jimbob Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Yeah, when i was 4 i didn't know the buttons so playing Mario Brothers was a little tricky. Heck, it took me many years to get past 1 part in World 8.
Grazza Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I'll never have a go at anyone for lack of skill. Super Mario Bros is a very hard game and I've never been able to complete it - think I've got about 75% of the way through, but that's it. It's not like everyone was a skilled gamer when it was originally released either, as it has always been a game people find hard to control. A lot of people must have thought "Games aren't for me", and just forgotten about them from that point on. I'm not particularly blaming Super Mario Bros, because that's just what games were like in the '80s - overly hard, to hide the fact there was not much to them. The much-mocked New Super Mario Bros series, on the other hand, has absolutely perfect controls. Not only that, they often feature some sort of "Super Leaf" if you find the level too difficult. I was genuinely impressed with New Super Mario Bros 2, how the Super Leaf would let almost everyone beat the last boss (you still need platforming skills though). What's more concerning than lack of skill, is when players won't learn good controls. As I say, NSMB has perfect controls, but there will still be some who can't grasp the concept of the run button. Like it or not, we now have less control over Mario and Zelda. In Wind Waker, we could use the C-stick to control the camera and the R-trigger to control the shield. In Super Mario Sunshine, we could explore every nook and cranny with the camera stick and have amazingly precise control whilst hovering via the analogue triggers. Whether functionality of that level will ever come back to Nintendo's franchises, I don't know. It doesn't just give you more control - it actually affects how good level design can be. If Nintendo persists with simplifying controls, and how much control we have over a game, I hope they do so with as much skill as the Super Leaf or Super Guide. Games should be designed to be as good as possible for dedicated gamers, and only then have options to simplify if it doesn't negatively affect the software's highest potential.
Rummy Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) I haven't done a full topic read but think this - for those that might find this strange/bizarre/mad etc(most likely those who have played it) - how DID you know how to play mario? Probably because a.) You played 'mario' before b.) You read the instruction book c.) You'd seen that fucking title screen timeout 'demo' run a million times over in Dixons and figured that shit out. Personally afaik/can rememebr, I didn't play SMB until I had All-Stars on the SNES. By which point I'd played Super Mario Land on GB having watched/been shown by my cousins(and probably failed a few times just on L1) by time I was about 4, I'd played Super Mario World already on SNES by at least the age of 7(had SMW before AllStars), no doubt played another number of similar games/platformers in my time with similar mechanics on various systems at various houses/locations, and so yeah...I probs would have breezed 1-1 but that's because I'd had enough around to know what I was doing. As for the 90% of 'new' gamers - what the hells a 'new' gamer in this context? My dad, to his credit, once tried to sit down and play the SNES/All Stars, in particular SMB2. By virtue of not knowing what the hell he was doing he fell through the first bit relatively safely iirc, but at literally the next bit(still the beginning) seemed to struggle immensely with the concept of NOT running(read as walking) into the ShyGuy but jumping over it. He sucked major gaming balls, but I'll put it in his favour that he tried at least. If he had better teachers than kids(me...maybe my brother?) he might have done better! Edited July 9, 2013 by Rummy
Blade Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Chuff me! Surely a person with the ability to hold down right on a D Pad and press a button at the appropriate times will be able to complete the first level. The rest of the game though? Thats a different story!
Fierce_LiNk Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 I have memories of my younger brother completely destroying me at this game. He was insane at this. A messiah. He just picked it up one day and knew exactly what he was doing. Couldn't have been older than 6. Probably younger. I spent much of my childhood in awe, just watching him go through this again and again. Some people just take to things very easily and get the hang of it. Many don't have a clue and need to have their hands held through every step.
Rummy Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) Kids especially have a knack for it. They watch and they learn. It took him a long time to admit it, but I was essentially always better than my brother when it came to video games(though suppressed somewhat at times at being so :p) but I know exactly why. Whilst he was playing, I'd be watching and learning. Whilst my cousin's played, I'd watch and learn. I got to KNOW what video games were about, what they did, what to expect. My love also outweighed that of most people around me I think, and is probably why out of all the kids/family I played video games with as a kid I'm probably the most passionate now; which is saying something considering how much less I game. However all of that is my point, to be a kid in the environment you can learn and play and do well. My brother beat SMB before I did, because he insisted on playing W8. However it was I who discovered both the W1-2 warp, and the subsequent more important 4-2 warp that'd rocket him to W8. I think we'd start with me getting him to W8...and then playing until he could beat it(tbh it was hard as for us at the time, and even after watching him it took me ages to manage it myself). AAAAAaaaanyway, I was sposed to sleep so I get up at a sensible time for work tomorrow but nope! Brb playing SMB1. EDIT: 12.27am, one continue used(failing the w4-2 jump). Just reached world 8 with 4 lives remaining. EDIT: 12.47am, three continues used on W8(failing 8-2, semi-breezing 8-1). Made it to 8-3 with 3 lives remaining. Died too much, given up. A mission for tomorrow maybe! Edited July 9, 2013 by Rummy
Cube Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 As an experiment, I just booted up SMB. I..erm...I lost all my lives before finishing World 1-1.
Ville Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 (edited) You know what, somehow I'm not surprised. What I recall from people trying out 8- / 16-bit Mario games, their movements were always really clunky. No run-button use and the coordination was all over the place. Always seemed really weird compared to the smooth moving I've accustomed to myself, but maybe these games just do require some learning. Still, not beating the first level? That is a f*cking disgrace. Pull yourself together, people. Edited July 9, 2013 by Ville
Cube Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 After 3 "Game Over"s, I completed World 1-1. I failed at World 1-2, though.
Sheikah Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 After 3 "Game Over"s, I completed World 1-1. I failed at World 1-2, though. Where's a FLUDD when you need one? :p
Nolan Posted July 9, 2013 Posted July 9, 2013 Cube, hate to say this but you are awful at SMB Booted up SMB, ran through 1-1 no prob (well lost my 'shroom) hit the top of the flag pole and shut down. Game is way fucking harder on the 3DS though, tiny too close misaligned buttons and tiny D-Pad. Fuck that noise. Hand me a NES or SNES controller and it's muscle memory from there.
MoogleViper Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 An article with a sensationalist title and misleading statistics? Surely not?!
Andyliini Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 Guys, that article is from a site that makes joke topics all the time. This is definietly not real.
Dcubed Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 (edited) ??? This article is bollocks. Iwata never said this in the latest investor Q&A (which that site claims to be its source) http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/stock/meeting/130627qa/04.html Misquoting and distorting words from Nintendo staff is commonplace, but outright lying and making stuff up? That's a new one! ALWAYS READ THE ORIGINAL SOURCE!!! Edited July 10, 2013 by Dcubed
Serebii Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 Fun fuct. In the original vision for Super Mario Bros., Mario did have various weapons including a gun
Dcubed Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 Fun fuct. In the original vision for Super Mario Bros., Mario did have various weapons including a gun Funnily enough, DK originally had a real shotgun in DK64 as well. Seems to be a running theme for Nintendo related prototypes
are1981 Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 So I had a go on (my free Ambassador version of) Super Mario Bros. on my 3DS for the first time just now, and it is a hard game. I got game over at world 4-2, but I used the 1-2-to-4-1 shortcut. I don't remember how difficult the game is later on, but I did complete it on the SNES back in the day.
Cube Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 Where's a FLUDD when you need one? :p I'd rather play Sonic 2006 than use the FLUDD.
Rummy Posted July 10, 2013 Posted July 10, 2013 ??? This article is bollocks. Iwata never said this in the latest investor Q&A (which that site claims to be its source) http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/stock/meeting/130627qa/04.html Misquoting and distorting words from Nintendo staff is commonplace, but outright lying and making stuff up? That's a new one! ALWAYS READ THE ORIGINAL SOURCE!!! I never checked anything, so I wholly hold my hands up to that. Regardless, it's a pretty interesting point to consider...WOULD kids/'new gamers' struggle with SMB these days?
Mokong Posted July 10, 2013 Author Posted July 10, 2013 Going back to my own first experience with SMB, (I had to cut my OP short last night due to a crying toddler), as I said originally I died a few times at the first Goomba due to not knowing the buttons and thinking "up" was for jumping. Once my cousins told me what I was doing wrong I was relitively fine and finished 1-1 on first attempt after that. Think I got to 1-3 before losing a life again and then a Game Over at 1-4 When I did get my own NES (that first experience was on my cousins NES) the next Christmas (I think 1990, I was 7) I got it with that awesome cart that had SMB and Duck Hunt on one cart But it took me a long time before I finished SMB for the first time. In fact I'm pretty sure I got and finished SMB3 (never had SMB2 on my NES) before I finally completed SMB1, think I got SMB3 for Xmas 91 after it release prolly didn't finish that till a few months later, think March (have a memory like it was near my Sisters birthday). But didn't finish SMB till end of 91 or early 92. I remember then after that if I ever tried to finish it again I HAD TO have Fire Mario when I reached the last level if I was to have hope of finishing it. Will prolly fire it up again later today to see how it goes. While SMB was a hard game in the day and still can be I think the main difference that should be drawn as comparison between gamers of our generation and "newer" gamers is that the challenge of SMB didn't put (most of) us off trying again to finish it. While today I know some younger gamers who if they fail at something twice or three times just give up and call the game a "bad game" because they aren't good enough/can't understand it. Which could prolly be said of a lot of todays "new" gamers. Probably mostly from the so called "hardcore" crowd but the type of "hardcore" who only play CoD and FIFA etc. ??? This article is bollocks. Iwata never said this in the latest investor Q&A (which that site claims to be its source) http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/stock/meeting/130627qa/04.html Misquoting and distorting words from Nintendo staff is commonplace, but outright lying and making stuff up? That's a new one! ALWAYS READ THE ORIGINAL SOURCE!!! Sorry I never bothered to check I just thought the topic itself was interesting but wanted to frame it by referencing where I read it
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