Sméagol Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 € 20,- seems way to high for what we're getting. But <sigh>, I'm getting it immediately regardless. Hard mode and a cave of trials is not what I want from a DLC, which leaves 20 euros for just additional story content. Which is good, but for 20 euros it better be great.
liger05 Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 Nintendo are learning. Like every other publisher they are not going to leave money on the table. Locking hard mode behind dlc is bullshit though.
Retro_Link Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 I'm very disappointed with Nintendo. DLC, by its very nature, cannot be a good thing. By definition, it is either a) pure froth or b) something that should have been in the original game. Take DLC Pack 2, for example, with its extra dungeon. Hypothetically, let's say Breath of the Wild has 8 dungeons, or 9 with the DLC. Either 8 or 9 is the correct balance and design for that individual game. It can't be both. In fairness to Nintendo, other game developers announce DLC way before release in order to get people to pre-order. Mortal Kombat X being one of the worst offenders - and there are numerous others. Not gonna lie, I'm surprised at the price - without looking around to see how it compares, it instantly seemed high to me. At least with a lot of DLC you're buying into a year long season pass or something - but again I don't know enough about it. 8 or 9 dungeons can both be the right amount for Breath of the Wild because of the way has been designed. In Final Fantasy XV (haven't played it), there are hidden dungeons that many people loved so much they said they should have been included into the overall story etc... and very likely Nintendo is taking the same approach. However, the open world nature means that a new dungeon need not be tied to your overall quest. It could be a new playable character finding that dungeon as part of their own story - or it could be set post game. It could be a dungeon tied to an event in the world - a dungeon that appears only when something lines up astrologically/weather wise/season wise - all three. I think adding dungeons is potentially very fun. So long as they feel a part of the world and not somewhat cheap - like those challenge levels in the new Donkey Kong games.
Ronnie Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) I don't understand how more content is a bad thing. It's just bizarre. We wanted another game on the same engine and whilst this isn't as large scale as that, it's still more, optional, Zelda. Complaining about hard mode locked behind DLC, fine (even though the game is apparently hard to begin with), but more content to an already enormous game for a bit more money? I don't see what there is to complain about that. This is Nintendo, the game that's out on the 3rd is going to be in no way feel incomplete. Are people calling Uncharted 4 incomplete because of the story DLC they just revealed? No. DLC, by its very nature, cannot be a good thing. Extra, optional content, for a game you love is absolutely be a good thing. By definition, it is either a) pure froth or b) something that should have been in the original game. No. Playing a side campaign as Zelda, as an example, would not have had to be in the original game. They're working on this post-release. After development had concluded, so no, it isn't something that "should have been in the original game" Take DLC Pack 2, for example, with its extra dungeon. Hypothetically, let's say Breath of the Wild has 8 dungeons, or 9 with the DLC. I really wouldn't get your hopes up in terms of the number of dungeons this game has... Either 8 or 9 is the correct balance and design for that individual game. It can't be both. 8 would be the correct design for the original game. 1 would be the correct design for the additional campaign. The former is designed for 8, the latter is designed for 1. It used to be that you'd pay £50 or so for a new Zelda and it was worth every penny, but Nintendo risks losing that reputation. Adding it all up, that's £279.99 (RRP) for the Switch, £59.99 for Breath of the Wild and £17.99 for the DLC. Greedy, Nintendo, greedy. You're mistaken. £48/£60 for Breath of the Wild, the same as any other AAA game out there. £18 for an optional bit of side content, if you enjoyed the main campaign. There's nothing "greedy" about that. The cost of a brand new Nintendo console that will be around for years doesn't factor into this equation. Unless of course you never plan on buying another game for the Switch and only intend on playing Zelda on it. Edited February 14, 2017 by Ronnie
Mr-Paul Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 While I'm kinda fine with the actual concept of some DLC, it does seem pretty expensive for mainly just an extra dungeon somewhere down the line. Not too out of line from the rest of the industry in certain respects, but if you think how good value the MK8 and Hyrule Warriors add-on content was, it seems pricey. Will have to wait for more details before fully judging it. I have to agree that this is exactly the practice that the rest of the industry have been criticised for time and time again on these forums, selling a season pass from launch with fairly vague details of its content but it seems like Nintendo are getting a bit of a free pass on this because people personally want it more because it's Zelda. The Switch costume just sounds completely tacky to me and I'm kinda sad Nintendo would put something like that in a Zelda game. Also, this is totally my fault, but as I'm getting the Wii U version of Breath of the Wild, and then getting a Switch at a later date (and probably would've ended up picking up Breath of the Wild on there), it's frustrating that my total outlay on the game will go up even more if I want the full experience, even if I just buy the DLC on one of the consoles. I'd hope that maybe there'd be cross-buy, so if you bought it on one console you'd have it on the other, but this is Nintendo, who love to charge for things twice!
Ronnie Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 € 20,- seems way to high for what we're getting. How do you know what we're getting? If the new story is two hours long then it's way too high, if it's 30 hours long then it's great value for money. I have to agree that this is exactly the practice that the rest of the industry have been criticised for time and time again on these forums Really? Season passes are criticised time and time again here? Genuine question. selling a season pass from launch with fairly vague details of its content but it seems like Nintendo are getting a bit of a free pass on this because people personally want it more because it's Zelda. Don't most publishers sell you season passes without any information on what they'll contain so you have to go in blind? At least Nintendo is sharing what we get from the very beginning.
Mr-Paul Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 How do you know what we're getting? If the new story is two hours long then it's way too high, if it's 30 hours long then it's great value for money. Really? Season passes are criticised time and time again here? Genuine question. Don't most publishers sell you season passes without any information on what they'll contain so you have to go in blind? At least Nintendo is sharing what we get from the very beginning. I'll just leave this here from a quick search I did... I assume you don't buy any games with a 'Season Pass' then? Incomplete game but spend another £15 for a fraction of the content they didn't want to put in the original release. Compare and contrast to Nintendo's most 'incomplete' game, Splatoon, where we've gotten weekly updates for free. And sure, they've given us some details. But they're vague. And as I said, I won't judge fully until we know more about what the new content is. Just on first impressions it sounds expensive.
Ashley Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 This is probably the best thread for a self-contained discussion of the merits and pitfalls of season passes: http://n-europe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58057
Rummy Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 Legend of Zelda has always seemed the perfect series to mix things up a bit with the gender of the main character. If they want to keep it Link but have a character that is basically reincarnated for nearly every game then it would be easy to just make Link female every now and again. ...hell, maybe next time Link will come back as a screwdriver. I was really hoping they'd open up the gender options with the main character in this one - but I hope it's something they DO do in future. I wouldn't buy DLC just to see it though. In fact I might as well throw my hat into the ring of stating that I'm very much against this DLC. I never thought I'd see it with Zelda, and I don't think the relative value of that DLC compared to the price of the game is really going to be there. Agree with Nicktendo that it also feels somewhat devaluing already. Another pre-pay buy-in for something you don't fully know about until later either.
Mr-Paul Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 For the chests containing "useful items" - can anyone really see them being anything more than something like the Amiibo provide in TP:HD, so if you visit the chest you can get your bombs/arrows/etc. topped up? I guess they could have something like an exclusive sword in one of them seeing this game is more about picking up different weapons/upgrades, but if it's something like that, why not say rather than just saying "useful items"?
Fierce_LiNk Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 (edited) I'm very disappointed with Nintendo. DLC, by its very nature, cannot be a good thing. By definition, it is either a) pure froth or b) something that should have been in the original game. I disagree. The Witcher 3 is a perfect example of DLC done correctly. CDProjektRed released nearly two dozen pieces of DLC in the form of extra quests and items at no extra cost after the base game was released. Then, they released Hearts of Stone and then later on Blood and Wine as two huuuuuge expansions that were not only much bigger than the majority of other games out there, but also were extremely high in quality. This was DLC done absolutely spot on. For £20. It's all about value for money. I've got no problem paying for more storylines or quests or dungeons provided that it's worth the money. In The Witcher's case, it took value for money to a new level. Could it have been released along with the base game? No. These things take time to create. You'd have to delay the game by over a year to fit everything in. Edited February 14, 2017 by Fierce_LiNk
dazzybee Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 The big question is how big is this "story mode" to see how valuable it is. But more content for games we love. Nothing to complain about.
Sméagol Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 How do you know what we're getting? If the new story is two hours long then it's way too high, if it's 30 hours long then it's great value for money. I don't, which is why I say it seems high, on first impression. I don't know what we're getting, but 17 years worth of experience with dlc, and expansion packs before that, allows me to make an educated guess. First of all I can safely say it's not going to be 30 hours long. If it's 5-6 hours long, I'm happy, but I wouldn't be suprised if it's actually just 2 hours long. If it's longer, than this "new dungeon" will entail more than they're letting on for now. Dungeons don't take many hours to complete. To last more than 2 hours, they'll need additional new side locations, several new characters, new dialogue, and the biggest dungeon you've ever seen in a Zelda game. Anyway, I said I'd get it regardless, so I'll see how expansive this new dlc is going to get. As for the rest, a hard mode is not something I want to pay for, unless the differences are substantial. Which means a lot of new and harder enemies, new attack animations for old ones, and remixes of the bosses, in addition to the regular rebalancing. Then it would be worth it, but an educated guess tells me this is not going to happen. And a cave of trials is nice to complete for a piece of heart if it's already in the game, but I can't be bothered with it if I have to pay for it, and most likely get something useless for it as a reward. Unless they do something amazing with it. Again, just on this first impression, the price seems too high, if I had the option to buy the packs separately, I'd only go for pack 2. But since I never want to miss out on extra story content for games I love (and it's likely going to be a game I love), and for support, I'll buy the season pass immediately regardless. Then the other thing to hope for is that it's nicely integrated with the main story, and not that there's suddenly an extra dungeon where there was none before.
DazzeL Posted February 14, 2017 Posted February 14, 2017 I honestly struggle to understand why people get so upset about DLC. I've no doubt this will be a fully featured Zelda game and probably longer than some of the recent entries in the series which tended to be a bit shorter. If you then want to spend some extra money on the additional content (once you know what it is mind) then that will be each persons individual decision. For everyone who decides not to take the plunge, you'll still have experienced the bulk of the game and the whole of the story. Back in the day on PC we used to have expansion packs released for most games and they were great. This looks like DLC along those lines. I'm more worried about the 32GB of memory o my he Switch being entirely insufficient for too much DLC though.
Glen-i Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 I'm very disappointed with Nintendo. DLC, by its very nature, cannot be a good thing. By definition, it is either a) pure froth or b) something that should have been in the original game. I'm looking at Bayonetta in my Smash Bros. Character Select Screen and I just can't agree with this. That never would have happened if DLC wasn't a thing. I'd also like to bring up Mario Kart 8 which already had 8 cups in it before DLC hit.
Shorty Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 We need to stop pretending there's a one-size-fits-all DLC delivery method. And stop judging Nintendo until we see what the main game is like and what the DLC is like. On the one hand, you get content that's on the disk and only unlocked by pre-ordering or paying extra, this is bullshit done by the likes of CoD games, EA etc. On the other hand some developers will give you huge full sidequests that take nothing from the main adventure (but sometimes, add to it). We should be able to hedge our bets that Nintendo has the integrity to be the latter (personally, I think Mario Kart suggests they do), and appreciate that we're getting even more Zelda than we hoped. It's optional, but paying for it might fund even more content, or pave the way for better things to come.
Serebii Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) Let's look at Nintendo's history with paid DLC. New Super Mario Bros. U -Entirely new mode. 80 new levels. New mechanics New Super Mario Bros. 2 -Loads of optional new stages for Coin Rush. Full game without it Super Smash Bros. for 3DS/Wii U -Multiple new characters and stages. Full game without it Mario Kart 8 -6 New Characters, 16 new/redone tracks. Full game without it Fire Emblem Fates -An entirely new story -Special maps that give bonuses Fire Emblem Awakening -Special maps that give bonuses Mario Golf World Tour -3 packs including a total of 4 new characters and 6 redone courses from classic Mario Golf titles Pokémon Mystery Dungeon: Gates to Infinity -Special dungeons that gave easy access to rare items and Pokémon that are harder to find in standard play. Pikmin 3 -Special new maps for the bingo battle mode Hyrule Warriors (in four packs) -New Story -7 Outfits -2 New Weapons -4 New Characters -3 Adventure Mode Maps -Boss Challenge -Ganon's Fury Mode Hyrule Warriors Legends (in four packs) -52 My Fairy Costumes -4 Adventure Mode Maps -2 Weapons (Also on Wii U) -4 New Characters (Also on Wii U) -5 Adventure Battle Scenarios -4 Challenge Battle Scenarios I think we should stop worrying. Only thing that has been iffy is Fire Emblem and the Pokémon Mystery Dungeon game (which didn't do well, which is why they didn't do it in the latest Dungeon game). Everything else shows they know what they're doing and aren't screwing us Edited February 15, 2017 by Serebii
bob Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 The way I look at it is: if the DLC was a self contained game, would I feel satisfied in paying that much for it? E.g if it gives about 5 hours entertainment, I'd be happy to pay £5-10 for it. Same as a normal game. If it adds an extra 20 hours of gameplay, then it think £20-25 seems reasonable.
Shorty Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) The way I look at it is: if the DLC was a self contained game, would I feel satisfied in paying that much for it? E.g if it gives about 5 hours entertainment, I'd be happy to pay £5-10 for it. Same as a normal game. If it adds an extra 20 hours of gameplay, then it think £20-25 seems reasonable. I think this is mostly true for me too. But if I love the original game then it doesn't have to even do that much to win me over. Might make me a sucker but if I complete the game twice and 100% it and am just dying for an excuse to revisit that world, it'll hook me back in no matter what. Mass Effect was a good example of this. Some DLC was well fleshed out, and some short and sweet, but I enjoyed it all because I wanted any excuse to get more out of that universe and those characters. Edited February 15, 2017 by Shorty
Agent Gibbs Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 If this is DLC more akin to back in the earlier PC days, like Mysteries of the Sith was to Jedi Knight then this is alright, actual additional content, or as Flink says like the Witcher however if this is like has happened recently on lots of other games where its content they couldn't finish in time for the release so they cut it and are selling it back to us then thats as bad as every other third party that does that on Xbox/PS4 Given Nintendo's recent track record with DLC content, i think they are more likely to be the former and thats okay
Cube Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 however if this is like has happened recently on lots of other games where its content they couldn't finish in time for the release so they cut it and are selling it back to us then thats as bad as every other third party that does that on Xbox/PS4 I don't think that's even as bad as some people make it out to be. Content is always cut from games. They realise that stuff isn't within the budged/timeframe of the game so they stop working on it. In the past, this stuff was either left unfinished or reworked into future games (like the cut dungeons from Wind Waker). I don't see the problem with developers finishing up cut stuff after launch and selling it. Of course, there may be some who cut stuff from a game just for that reason, but other times we're getting stuff that we would otherwise not get.
Naar Posted February 15, 2017 Posted February 15, 2017 (edited) Miyamoto And Aonuma On Zelda's Storytelling Breath of the Wild offers a new level of freedom and exploration to the Zelda series which left us wondering about the role of a guided narrative. We spoke to Miyamoto and Aonuma about how some of their previous comments surrounding storytelling in games have been "misconstrued" and some of the lessons learned from The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Watch the full interview below to learn more about the team's approach to storytelling in Breath of the Wild. http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2017/02/15/miyamoto-and-aonuma-on-zeldas-storytelling-and-breath-of-the-wilds-trick.aspx Edited February 15, 2017 by Naar
Glen-i Posted February 17, 2017 Posted February 17, 2017 So Amazon have started selling the official guide. I don't know, I think it's a reasonable price...
Ronnie Posted February 17, 2017 Posted February 17, 2017 Wow the design is lovely. Would love to get one if Amazon UK starts selling it.
Sheikah Posted February 17, 2017 Posted February 17, 2017 So Amazon have started selling the official guide. I don't know, I think it's a reasonable price... $80? I'll take four.
Recommended Posts