General Switch Discussion

[Glen-i]

1 minute ago, bob said:

Is Mario Maker a new IP, or just a spin-off?

Defo spin-off. It uses the Mario name.

The real question is, is Hyrule Warriors a Zelda spin-off or a Dynasty Warriors spin-off?

[bob]

Defo spin-off. It uses the Mario name.
The real question is, is Hyrule Warriors a Zelda spin-off or a Dynasty Warriors spin-off?

Well it doesn't use the Zelda name, so it must be a Dynasty Warriors spin-off.

[Glen-i]

5 minutes ago, bob said:

6 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

Defo spin-off. It uses the Mario name.
The real question is, is Hyrule Warriors a Zelda spin-off or a Dynasty Warriors spin-off?

Well it doesn't use the Zelda name, so it must be a Dynasty Warriors spin-off.

By that logic, Dragon Quest Heroes would be a Dragon Quest spin-off despite having similar gameplay to the Dynasty Warrior games?

[bob]

By that logic, Dragon Quest Heroes would be a Dragon Quest spin-off despite having similar gameplay to the Dynasty Warrior games?

Hey, it's your logic.

[Julius]

6 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

By that logic, Dragon Quest Heroes would be a Dragon Quest spin-off despite having similar gameplay to the Dynasty Warrior games?

Glen's got a point...

6 minutes ago, bob said:

7 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

By that logic, Dragon Quest Heroes would be a Dragon Quest spin-off despite having similar gameplay to the Dynasty Warrior games?

Hey, it's your logic.

Oh. 

But seriously, yeah, Hyrule Warriors is absolutely a Zelda spinoff, at least for me. And Dragon Quest Heroes is absolutely a Dragon Quest spinoff too. 

Name or not, I think so long as the core of the game (or for argument's sake, whatever media) sees the return to characters, topics, themes, or story present in the original work/franchise, it's a spin-off. The IP at the centre of it all is the easiest decider, I think you can get cases where the definition blurs a bit in some cases. 

If not, you get some really weird outcomes if you're focusing strictly on core systems (though I think it'd be a great way to dive into the history of games and see how things branched out over time).

For example, the Pokémon Mystery Dungeon games are then spin-offs of the character Torneko from Dragon Quest IV: the first Mystery Dungeon game by Chunsoft was Torneko's Great Adventure: Mystery Dungeon. The new Star Wars Battlefront games are then spin-offs of Battlefield. And almost every turn-based JRPG is a spin-off of Dragon Quest. 

[Dufniall]

Okay, tricky one then. Is Cadence of Hyrule a Zelda spin-off or a Crypt of the NecroDancer spin-off/sequel? I would argue it's a cross-over.

[Glen-i]

7 minutes ago, Vileplume2000 said:

Okay, tricky one then. Is Cadence of Hyrule a Zelda spin-off or a Crypt of the NecroDancer spin-off/sequel? I would argue it's a cross-over.

Nah, we can go more blurred lines then that...

Here's Japanese warlord Oda Nobunaga and his new pet Zekrom.

Now then, Pokémon or Nobunaga's Ambition?

[Julius]

43 minutes ago, Vileplume2000 said:

Okay, tricky one then. Is Cadence of Hyrule a Zelda spin-off or a Crypt of the NecroDancer spin-off/sequel? I would argue it's a cross-over.

I agree with you and think a crossover is fair in this case honestly, as I think it kind of reaches beyond the spin-off discussion.

If you did have to argue if it were a spin-off or not, though, then I would say yes, it's a Zelda spin-off, based purely on the fact that I would list it in a grand list of all the Zelda games made to date. I haven't played the game myself, but is it also set in Hyrule and in the Zelda world? Because if so I think it's definitely a spin-off. 

33 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

Nah, we can go more blurred lines then that...

Here's Japanese warlord Oda Nobunaga and his new pet Zekrom.

Now then, Pokémon or Nobunaga's Ambition?

Like with Cadence of Hyrule, it's kind of a crossover, but if we were to delve into the spin-off discussion, I would absolutely think it'd be argued to be a Pokémon spin-off. Same logic as above: I'd add it to a list of all the Pokémon games made. And, unless I'm misremembering, isn't it also set in the Pokémon world? 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Julius

[Jonnas]

7 hours ago, Julius said:

I agree with you and think a crossover is fair in this case honestly, as I think it kind of reaches beyond the spin-off discussion.

If you did have to argue if it were a spin-off or not, though, then I would say yes, it's a Zelda spin-off, based purely on the fact that I would list it in a grand list of all the Zelda games made to date. I haven't played the game myself, but is it also set in Hyrule and in the Zelda world? Because if so I think it's definitely a spin-off. 

Like with Cadence of Hyrule, it's kind of a crossover, but if we were to delve into the spin-off discussion, I would absolutely think it'd be argued to be a Pokémon spin-off. Same logic as above: I'd add it to a list of all the Pokémon games made. And, unless I'm misremembering, isn't it also set in the Pokémon world? 

Cadence of Hyrule uses Zelda characters, and also Crypt of the Necrodancer characters (the recent DLC even adds characters from both). It involves Cadence being transported to Hyrule and meeting Link and Zelda. Literal crossover.

Nobunaga + Pokémon involves a world where characters from both franchisrs co-exist (even weirder, Nobunaga is a franchise involving historical domain characters from real life). Different case, but still, if it is set in a mish-mash world, it's still a crossover.

The catch here is thinking it must be one or the other, but maybe these games are actually spinoffs for both of the franchises they make up.

Edited August 21, 2020 by Jonnas

[Glen-i]

4 minutes ago, Jonnas said:

The catch here is thinking it must be one or the other, but maybe these games are actually spinoffs for both of the franchises they make up.

I mean, yeah. That's probably right, but where's the fun in that?

Now then, slightly different tangent. But remember the character select screen from Diddy Kong Racing?

Now, the question that keeps me up at night.

If Diddy Kong Racing is considered a Donkey Kong Country spin-off, does that mean Banjo-Kazooie and Conker's Bad Fur Day are Mario Universe games?

[Julius]

28 minutes ago, Jonnas said:

Cadence of Hyrule uses Zelda characters, and also Crypt of the Necrodancer characters (the recent DLC even adds characters from both). It involves Cadence being transported to Hyrule and meeting Link and Zelda. Literal crossover.

Nobunaga + Pokémon involves a world where characters from both franchisrs co-exist (even weirder, Nobunaga is a franchise involving historical domain characters from real life). Different case, but still, if it is set in a mish-mash world, it's still a crossover.

The catch here is thinking it must be one or the other, but maybe these games are actually spinoffs for both of the franchises they make up.

I mean, the original discussion was about spin-offs. So I was saying that if we were going to speak about them strictly as either being a spin-off or not, I think that they would be spin-off titles rather than not.

I wasn't arguing against them being crossovers. I blame @Vileplume2000. He threw the curveball and didn't even give an answer from his own options! 

Edited August 21, 2020 by Julius

[Glen-i]

8 hours ago, Julius said:

Like with Cadence of Hyrule, it's kind of a crossover, but if we were to delve into the spin-off discussion, I would absolutely think it'd be argued to be a Pokémon spin-off. Same logic as above: I'd add it to a list of all the Pokémon games made. And, unless I'm misremembering, isn't it also set in the Pokémon world? 

Oh right, just noticed this, but Pokémon Conquest is never exactly clear on this.

All we really know is that the place is called Ransei and it's not quite the Pokémon world from the mainline games. So, similar to the "World of Pokémon" that the Mystery Dungeon games are set in.

So... Parallel Universe?

Actually, thinking about it. Pokémon games have inadvertently written itself into multiple universes. Just off the top of my head...

There's the original universe before the 3DS games (I believe Sword/Shield might be in this one), the Mega Evolution universe (The 3DS games), Pokémon Conquest's Ransei (Although, for all I know, that might be a case of being in the past), PMD's World of Pokémon, and that's before we even place where the Game Boy Trading Card Game happens...

[Julius]

1 hour ago, Glen-i said:

Oh right, just noticed this, but Pokémon Conquest is never exactly clear on this.

All we really know is that the place is called Ransei and it's not quite the Pokémon world from the mainline games. So, similar to the "World of Pokémon" that the Mystery Dungeon games are set in.

So... Parallel Universe?

Actually, thinking about it. Pokémon games have inadvertently written itself into multiple universes. Just off the top of my head...

There's the original universe before the 3DS games (I believe Sword/Shield might be in this one), the Mega Evolution universe (The 3DS games), Pokémon Conquest's Ransei (Although, for all I know, that might be a case of being in the past), PMD's World of Pokémon, and that's before we even place where the Game Boy Trading Card Game happens...

Yeah it's... certainly a bit of a mess! 

I thought the multiverse that they tried to introduce in the core games as an explanation for the differences in the remakes/3D games in ORAS was a really cool idea, but in the end it's turned out to be a pretty lame excuse for them to make subpar games, at least in the case of ORAS especially. That generation as a whole was a big dip for the series in terms of quality, and I don't think it's got close to what it was before since. I feel like they could've done so much more with it than they did, one of the only interesting points I think they had somewhat related to this was what happened with Anabel, Looker, and the UB's. 

Personally, I would much prefer that they just made references to characters and places from other games, it's that sort of continuity in any medium which really excites me. In the spin-off games Ranger did this fairly well, but in the main games I look at things like a passing reference to Blue in X/Y by that guy in a Pokémon Centre about him studying to go into research; the Sinnoh games beginning with a newsflash about what was happening at the Lake of Rage in Johto (these games as a whole are a good example of this I feel, such as with Jasmine turning up in Sunyshore); and references to the player character of Black/White in the sequels. It's one of my favourite things about Sun/Moon, though I do feel they went a little overboard by the end. 

I wish they'd go back to things like that, I love when worlds tie themselves together, and especially in games. It's why I often love the intros to Pokémon films, getting to see Brendan take on Lucas was something I thought was cool as heck as a kid! 

Guess anything can get me going about Pokémon  

[Ike]

Dynasty Warriors is practically its own genre (although they are technically hack-n-slash games), I would say Fire Emblem Warriors, Zelda Warriors and Dragon Quest Heroes are all spin-offs of their respective franchise with in the "Musou" genre, although they also add elements from their own series'.

However, you have the likes of One Piece Pirate Warriors and the Gundam games which aren't spin-offs so they are just Musou games.

[Glen-i]

2 hours ago, Julius said:

I feel like they could've done so much more with it than they did, one of the only interesting points I think they had somewhat related to this was what happened with Anabel, Looker, and the UB's. 

Oh man, it genuinely annoys me that her cool backstory never went anywhere.

For the sake of those who don't know, I'll give an explanation, seeing as Anabel is a really obscure character that the average player won't even know exists.

Spoiler

OK, so remember the whole parallel universe I mentioned with the 3DS games? Well, to clarify, Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald are part of the original universe while their remakes, OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire, are part of the alternate universe where Mega Evolution exists.

It sounds like a handwave excuse for why Mega Evolution is in the Gen 3 games, which it kinda is. But Game Freak clearly had plans to implement this alternate universe shtick in a more meaningful way, and Anabel is the prime evidence for that.

In Pokémon Emerald, there was a great little facility called the Battle Frontier. Mentioned it a few times in the past. You had to beat 7 incredibly difficult trainers, each with special restrictions in place. Anabel was one of them.

Now, one of the many reasons I think OR/AS are a big disappointment is that stuff like the Battle Frontier was cut. So Anabel never showed up there.

But then Sun and Moon came along. And for some reason, she shows up out of nowhere after the credits when you have to stop Ultra Beasts.

Seems like a nice little cameo of a character from a previous game, until she mentions that she's lost her most of her memory, but vaguely remembers being in charge of some kind of Tower.

What makes this weird is that the Battle Frontier doesn't exist in this universe. OR/AS already established that, so Anabel shouldn't be able to recall that.

Unless, of course, she was literally the Anabel from the GBA game. It's implied that the Ultra Beasts may have transported her between the two universes somehow.

It's hinted at more if you're good enough to run into her during the Battle Tree. There's a lot of fights against trainers from previous games, and a lot of them have new fancy remixes of their songs.

Anabel is an exception, instead of the (awesome) Frontier Brain remix from OR/AS, she has the original GBA song play instead. Which is a lovely little nod.

She then proceeds to batter you with her Latios, but that's besides the point.

But with the whole Mega Evolution thing seemingly getting the chop with Sword/Shield, it's looking likely this plot thread won't get resolved any time soon. Such a shame.

2 hours ago, Ike said:

Dynasty Warriors is practically its own genre (although they are technically hack-n-slash games), I would say Fire Emblem Warriors, Zelda Warriors and Dragon Quest Heroes are all spin-offs of their respective franchise with in the "Musou" genre, although they also add elements from their own series'.

See, if I had to answer, I'd have to go with them being Dynasty Warrior spin-offs because the gameplay resembles those games more and gameplay is what matters most to me in most games.

[Dcubed]

Don’t be stupid.  Hyrule Warriors is obviously a mainline Zelda game AND a mainline Dynasty Warriors game.  They are now part of the same universe.  Lu Bu is my favourite Zelda character!

Edited August 22, 2020 by Dcubed

[markderoos]

Just came in to tell Battletoads & Double Dragon has nothing to do with the Nintendogs franchise

[Ronnie]

An insider worth listening to...

Quote

These days I haven't been keeping up with the going-on's at Nintendo. But I saw rumblings/rumors on forums about whether 3D World is getting delayed to early 2021 (January - March). I don't know if that's true, but I want to shed some light on a few things.

Quote

Before Covid-19, original plan for Pikmin 3 was spring/summer release.That's why April/May were empty. That was Pikmin's spot. October was not the original release month for Pikmin 3. Pikmin 3 in Oct might mean something on the schedule has to move to early 2021 (Jan-Feb).

Quote

So if Covid hadn't happened, first half of the year would've had almost no gaps:

TMS #FE (January)
Animal Crossing (March)
Pikmin 3 (April - early May)
Xenoblade (late May)
Clubhouse Games (early June)
Paper Mario (July)

But Pikmin 3 got moved out of original slot to October.

Emily Rogers twitter thread

Nothing particularly ground-breaking but still interesting...

Edited August 23, 2020 by Ronnie

[LazyBoy]

Got through Superliminal in 2/3 sessions. Portal inspired Puzzle game with the gimmick being changing perspectives. 3/5 worth a tenner.

Started on Sunless Sea. Brutal roguelike, got to really pay attention. Love the world, love the atmosphere, but got to get better at it before I can really enjoy the systems.

[Dcubed]

15 hours ago, Ronnie said:

An insider worth listening to...

Emily Rogers twitter thread

Nothing particularly ground-breaking but still interesting...

I can believe that.  Paper Mario was always due for July, and Pikmin 3 DX has been sitting in Nintendo's vaults for over a year now.

I can't see SM3DW DX being pushed back until 2021 though.  The game is done, and has been done for ages now.  It'll be their big November title (mostly because they have nothing else available other than Metroid Prime Trilogy HD).

[ArtMediocre]

Taken from Reddit:

Nintendo direct rumored to be coming August 28th by Jeff Grubb who is a reliable source.

If true, it is supposed to be a smaller direct, or a direct related to the super mario 35th anniversary. To be honest, I just think people do this just to watch ResetEra have a meltdown  

[Londragon]

Created a video explaining the process involved in buying a single digital game on Nintendo Switch, and being able to play that single game simultaneously on two separate Switch Units, or even simultaneously online.

Hope this makes sense, I've really tried to explain the jargon beforehand, and then the process to follow.

[How To] Buy Once (Digitally), Play Simultaneously with 2 Switch Units

Old Nintendo Gamer breaks down the necessary steps that enable a single Nintendo Account to buy a single digital game and play it simultaneously on 2 separate Switch Units.

This was something I talked about on the N-E Cafe Podcast recently, and thought I needed to clarify the situation with some visual representation.

[Helmsly]

I could see this being true as we’ve had Switch Pro rumours since last year.  Around 4 years into the 3DS life they released the New 3DS so this aligns with a similar timeframe. 
 

If this were to be true, what kind of improvements would you like Nintendo to make to the Switch? 

[killthenet]

I would happily pay several hundred pounds for a Switch with hard wired joy con that don't drift, the internals could otherwise be the same as the base model and I would probably still buy it.

Ideally if they are releasing a new model though I would like it to utilise a more powerful SOC and have less of a bezel on the display - the size and resolution at the moment are absolutely fine, the design of the system could just do with slimming down a bit. 

But yeah, improved build quality is my main hope.

Edited August 24, 2020 by killthenet

[Dcubed]

1 hour ago, Helmsly said:

I could see this being true as we’ve had Switch Pro rumours since last year.  Around 4 years into the 3DS life they released the New 3DS so this aligns with a similar timeframe. 
 

If this were to be true, what kind of improvements would you like Nintendo to make to the Switch? 

“Improved Interactivity” sounds like it comes with an Active Stylus!!

God I hope that’s true!! My Ultra Stylus has been an absolute game changer and if it means we’ll start seeing games like Kirby & The Rainbow Curse again? Sign me up!