The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild Wii U / Switch

[Ronnie]

37 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

No idea but I pretty much refuse to watch a video with a thumbnail like that. If they want my click then they shouldn’t plaster their face all over the screen whilst looking like a moron. Just let the title and the content do the talking.

Yes don't you just hate it when YouTube creators look like morons on their thumbnail...

[Cube]

Posting images of a terrible clickbait channel that latches on to any slightly whiff of controversy is just proving his point.

[bob]

For a second I thought your point was that Jim Sterling IS HoT...

We've never seen them in the same room...

[Ronnie]

13 minutes ago, Cube said:

Posting images of a terrible clickbait channel that latches on to any slightly whiff of controversy is just proving his point.

I totally agree about that terrible channel and how it proves HOT’s point, but Sterling seems to be pretty popular on here.

[S.C.G]

16 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

I totally agree about that terrible channel and how it proves HOT’s point, but Sterling seems to be pretty popular on here.

It seems to be what a lot of content on YouTube in general veers towards these days, it's also partly why I hardly watch any videogame content on YT these days, except for channels which I'm either genuinely interested in, or invested in them, (non-financially) in terms of them mostly being independent channels, such as N-Europe's channel (which is regularly updated with the podcast) Old Nintendo Gamer & Son (Lee's channel, which has great regular Nintendo content) and Retro Faith, because there's lots of great Sega content on there, retro news and interviews with different people, including some industry veterans.

But when it comes to big YouTube channels, such as the one posted above, yes, I used to post those videos on the forums, and I did find some elements of them entertaining, for a time, but it's not hard to see through them, and other content creators, because even though they serve a purpose, and have their good and bad points, I think it comes down to the energy that they draw from, they get a lot of attention already... and as the saying goes... "energy flows, where attention goes" so it's probably best not to post them, unless they really happened to have something profound to say, which hasn't been said before.

Perhaps a thread-rip is in order at this point? As while it is an interesting thread of conversation, we're quickly getting away from the topic.

- - - - -

Regarding the game, The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild... it's a great title, outstanding in some ways, while lacking in some places, the overall impression I got from the expansive world, was nothing short of breath-taking at the time when I played it, when comparing it to previous entries, and I still believe that it's a title which is worth its many accolades, for its time of release, despite the lack of any classic Zelda dungeons, and the story, which the recently released Hyrule Warriors sequel seemed to remedy somewhat.

The best thing about the latest mainline Zelda game, is that it still finds ways to surprise players, even more than four years on from its release, not that many modern-day titles seem to have that effect, at least not in the same way. Personally, I haven't been back to the game in many years, but if I were to load it up now, I'm sure that I'd find something interesting which I didn't know was possible, back when I first 'completed it' shortly after the Switch launched.

There's certainly plenty that I could choose to do in the game, I didn't bother with any of the four guardians, for one thing, there are loads of sidequests which I never investigated, places on the map where I've likely never been, and obviously loads of Korok seeds to find, even if the reward for getting them all, isn't worth the effort... which I know, is the point of it.

Indeed, if I was still more interested in gaming in general, Breath of the Wild is one of those titles, I could still see myself going back to, but as it stands, I've become steadily less interested in a lot of aspects of gaming, particularly when it comes to modern games, but I'm still grateful for the experience of playing every main game in the Zelda series, and that will never change. 

[Hero-of-Time]

I can only see bits of the conversation here and so assume it’s something to do with Jim Sterling videos, someone who I haven’t watched in quite a while. In fact, if the JS thread is checked, the last thing I posted there was his CP music video back in December and even then I say I haven’t watched him in a while.

It came down to me trying to cut out negative influences in my life. I appreciate the messages he was trying to get across but a lot of videos were just a stream of negativity. It’s why I’m more selective about what gaming videos I watch, the type of everyday news that I watch, spend a lot less time on places like Era and have even hit the ignore button on here at the start of the year ( sorry, Ronnie ), hence me only seeing bits of this convo. It’s an attempt to make things happier and more positive for myself this year. 

So, yeah, dem Zelda games, huh?  

[nekunando]

2 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said:

It came down to me trying to cut out negative influences in my life..

If you can still read this, I'm touched 

I've noticed your absence in the N-E Café thread recently, though, so I'm guessing that got cut!

Stay positive

 

[Hero-of-Time]

3 hours ago, nekunando said:

If you can still read this, I'm touched 

I've noticed your absence in the N-E Café thread recently, though, so I'm guessing that got cut!

Stay positive

 

I can still see you.  

Yeah, you are correct when saying I've dropped the podcast but not for the reasons I mentioned. 

[Happenstance]

Just now, Hero-of-Time said:

I can still see you.  

Yeah, you are correct when saying I've dropped the podcast but not for the reasons I mentioned. 

Who are you talking to? I just see a blank quote box 

[Kav]

First person BotW...

 

[BowserBasher]

Interesting, but I can’t understand how they did it. 
 

Quote

Want to try it for yourself? Here’s A.xk’s instructions:

New item hold glitch

↓

Camera

↓

Item hold

↓

Item hold cancel

I mean what does that mean?

[Kav]

Wowsers, could you imagine playing through it like this?! 

[drahkon]

14 minutes ago, Kav said:

Wowsers, could you imagine playing through it like this?! 

Sure, never on a Nintendo device, though

(and if it was a different game )

[Ronnie]

HAHAHAHA

Anyway, awesome video @Kav the art-style holds up really well!

 

[darksnowman]

I slotted this back in last week. Last saves were almost exactly two years ago, give or take a month!

And I'm trying to like it, really I am. Not that I disliked it before, I just didn't feel compelled to carry on with it after somewhere in the region of 25 hours played and not a great deal done.

Like, I applaud them for doing something this radically different with Zelda--I have no problem with that whatsoever, and like many others, was calling for a shake-up after Skyward Sword. I just think they went too far in the opposite direction of the Zelda formula.

When playing BotW last week I realised that all I seemed to be doing was holding up on the joystick to run forward across the vast emptiness, and continue holding up to climb any walls I came to until I eventually reached what I thought was going to be a point of interest. Because that's supposed to be the beauty of BotW--see something that tickles your fancy and you can get there! But then what do you do and there's nothing there? Swing the camera around, find something else interesting, orient Link, hold up until you get there... and again, when you get there there's nothing. Or maybe some apples and a tree lizard. Or a different piece of fruit.

When I realised I was doing nothing in the game, I became aware of the passage of time in the real world and questioned why I chose to spend my free time like this.* Hardly the fun time and escapism expected when getting some well-earned game time in. I'm spending hours in BotW but doing nothing.

Now, I've enjoyed my share of boring games (400+ hours and counting on AC:NH says hello), so what is it about BotW? I'm at a loss, honestly. I've run to areas I had no map data for--desert was too hot for Link, went the other direction and found the coastline and a seaside settlement. Civilisation! I thought Kakariko and Hateno were the only towns. I spoke to two or three NPCs there and couldn't be bothered with any more of them; my initial surprise and enthusiasm quickly sapped away. A kid led me to some ruins and another NPC. I climbed the cliffs a bit. I searched for three things for that NPC (yay, purpose!) and then again when running around the massive hook of the beach, I stopped and wondered: why am I doing this? The world here is just too big. Yes, it is impressive, but it is not interesting (to me) to traverse these huge areas for the sheer sake of it. It could be compacted and compressed so much and still impress. Like, Twilight Princess without those chasms dividing everything up could be enough? I exited the seaside village and ran up around to a clifftop shrine whose bleep-bleeping had been getting on my nerves. On the way back, I figured it would be in the spirit of trying to get into the game to engage with an enemy base in one of those large skull-shaped rocks. It cost a few deaths but clearing them out unlocked a chest in back... the reward for those game overs and depleting my arsenal? A weapon weaker than everything I had. 

I pulled up the map to decide where to go next. Another tower? Instead, I warped over to Great Plateau to cash in some orbs in the Temple of Time... and pulled up a guide online. I just wanted a nudge, and I got it. I already had a shrine nearby to warp to where the guide recommended I go. So how did I miss the story trigger in that area two years ago? Who knows. Cashing in the orbs also gave me the idea to check what to do with the Korok seeds. Again, I already had a shrine to warp directly to the location of the guy. So how did I miss him before? Not a baldy. Didn't matter too much as he only allowed me to spend a few seeds before shutting up shop. Looks like I'm going to have to find him somewhere else if I want to get rid of more seeds?

Anyway, last night with "40 or more hours" of playtime on the Switch clock, I was ready to take on my first level! I enjoyed the way some NPCs were reacting to Link with disdain and accusations that he abandoned their champion 100 years ago (is a year on this planet the equivalent of a couple of earth months or what ). I wasn't sure what to expect with the level itself--was it going to be a living creature like Lord Jabu-Jabu,  a robot, or a cybernetic mixture of the two? It was activate some things followed by a boss who quickly one-shotted me four or five times before I called it a night. I am going to fire BotW up again later, that much I know, but I couldn't tell you why. It was cute two years ago to be one-shotted by baddies in the overworld as it gave me the feeling of ooh, I shouldn't be here yet, and teehee this is so like Zelda 1 but I don't appreciate this boss swatting me aside in the same manner after 40 hours. Maybe I will knuckle down and try to learn how to beat it, but I have a feeling I need to warp away and do more shrines to get more hearts? Or find better gear? More apples? Cook? I don't see recipes in the menu so I might have to check online for where I missed the cookbook, otherwise, it will be like finding a needle in a haystack. I just don't know. As I'm writing this I don't feel up for a come and go as you please approach to the bosses. Maybe that'll change. Maybe that has to change. Shrines are generally self-contained (other than combat challenges, I've skipped a few others because it looked like arrows were required and the shrines weren't supplying any...) and I expected levels to provide the tools you need. You know, like even some health items or arrows in breakable crates in the boss room. SImple player-friendly touches like that.

I want to like BotW. I didn't expect to have any other relationship with it than basking in hours and hours of pure Nintendo/ Zelda magic. But it just isn't clicking with me no matter how much I try to believe that up there I will find something cool or maybe when my fingers stop getting tangled up with the controls I'll finally get it, and I don't know how much more I can put into it. Weariness and apathy towards a Zelda game is pretty much the last thing I expected.  

There is no recommended way to play BotW, again, I totally understand that is meant to be the beauty of it, but is there something I should do in the game? Somewhere I should go that will get me into it? Perhaps the coolest thing I've found was Koholint/ Toronbo Shores, but I need something to really latch onto here, not just lipservice to previous games in the series. I'm contemplating buying a guide to use as a companion to fill me in on what this game is all about because after the plateau and a breadcrumb trail over to Kakariko and Hateno, it lost me. 

Help. 
 

*Answer: Preparation for BotW 2 and possibly Age of Calamity if I get really inspired by this world and these characters.

Edited May 12, 2021 by darksnowman
:laughing:

[Glen-i]

I mean this in the best possible way, @darksnowman.

You sound just like me.

Reading through your post, it's remarkable how much your view mirrors mine. I was just so bored throughout BotW and it doesn't get any better. If you don't like it after 40 hours, you probably won't like it at the end.

It's funny you mention Age of Calamity, because it plays nothing like BotW. Way more action packed and the combat is far more engaging! I hated BotW, but loved Age of Calamity! They really are polar opposites.

Also, things don't kill you in one hit all the time at the start, which is nice.

 

Edited May 12, 2021 by Glen-i

[Sheikah]

12 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

I mean this in the best possible way, @darksnowman.

You sound just like me.

Reading through your post, it's remarkable how much your view mirrors mine. I was just so bored throughout BotW and it doesn't get any better. If you don't like it after 40 hours, you probably won't like it at the end.

It's funny you mention Age of Calamity, because it plays nothing like BotW. Way more action packed and the combat is far more engaging! I hated BotW, but loved Age of Calamity! They really are polar opposites.

Also, things don't kill you in one hit all the time at the start, which is nice.

You say that but the Warriors games are renowned for having tons of low-rank enemies literally standing around doing next to nothing. For me the Warriors games were something you'd blast through with a friend but not think twice about afterwards. The amount of tie-ins they've done with that franchise is kind of insane.

[Glen-i]

22 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

You say that but the Warriors games are renowned for having tons of low-rank enemies literally standing around doing next to nothing. For me the Warriors games were something you'd blast through with a friend but not think twice about afterwards. The amount of tie-ins they've done with that franchise is kind of insane.

The hundreds of Bokoblins you mow through? Sure. It'd be infuriating if every small enemy constantly whacked you all the time.

But then an enemy that's important enough to have it's health bar appear shows up, and you have to play more defensively, or you'll get smacked around all the time. I mean, you saw me get ninja slashed by Sooga above because I wasn't paying attention.

Spoiler

 

The combat is a lot better than it was in the first Hyrule Warriors.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Glen-i

[Sheikah]

20 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

The hundreds of Bokoblins you mow through? Sure. It'd be infuriating if every small enemy constantly whacked you all the time.

But then you've basically provided a solution to a problem that shouldn't exist. You don't need to make the AI lifeless if you don't have a hundred of them on screen at a time.

I swear the reason the Warrior games have this to begin with was to create an impressive tech demo on PS2 (showing off loads of enemies on screen at once), which then somehow carried over into the main game.

Also that boss you show yourself fighting seems to have way less nuance and scripting to it than a boss from even the N64 Zelda games.

[Glen-i]

10 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

But then you've basically provided a solution to a problem that shouldn't exist. You don't need to make the AI lifeless if you don't have a hundred of them on screen at a time.

I swear the reason the Warrior games have this to begin with was to create an impressive tech demo on PS2 (showing off loads of enemies on screen at once), which then somehow carried over into the main game.

Also that boss you show yourself fighting seems to have way less nuance and scripting to it than a boss from even the N64 Zelda games.

I mean, there's only so much I can fit into 30 seconds.

And you're exaggerating. Enemies may not be as complex as BotW, but they still have some of the quirks. Moblins still chuck Bokoblins at your face if they have the opportunity, for example. The Blight Ganon fights and named characters have a lot more tricks up their sleeves (If you hit Sooga while he has that red barrier up, he'll counter you hard, so button mashing is a terrible strategy), which you'd expect. And it gets pretty intense on some of the later challenges when you have to fight more than one of them at once.

And another key aspect I like about the gameplay is how different each character plays. It helps to make the game more varied. Revali excels in an aerial style, Mipha has limited teleportation abilities and can heal other characters, there's a stance change character that swaps between speed and power, one that utilises shield surfing to be constantly moving while attacking (tricky to handle, but effective when you can).

Every character has the 4 Sheikah rune powers, but even those are executed differently depending on which character you're playing as.

Also Flurry Rush works as intended, unlike in BotW, where it is kinda odd in how it activates.

I had more fun in an hour of Age of Calamity then I had in the entirety of BotW.

[Sheikah]

8 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

I mean, there's only so much I can fit into 30 seconds.

And you're exaggerating. Enemies may not be as complex as BotW, but they still have some of the quirks. Moblins still chuck Bokoblins at your face if they have the opportunity, for example.

I'm not exaggerating, I even looked up the gameplay of this particular Warriors game to check. Most of the mobilins, most of the time...just stand there. For you to hit them. That's basically the cornerstone of Warriors games; enemies standing around for you to hit lots of them at once, to feel powerful. Don't get me wrong, if you just stand there they will eventually hit you, but it's just a bit of a joke really - I don't understand why they bother with this approach. Better to put in far fewer enemies but have them constantly doing stuff, surely?

The bosses look to be a lot more active but if you compare them to the bosses in actual mainline Zelda games, there's no comparison really. They lack the nuance and complex attack patterns of traditional bosses.

8 minutes ago, Glen-i said:

And another key aspect I like about the gameplay is how different each character plays. It helps to make the game more varied. Revali excels in an aerial style, Mipha has limited teleportation abilities and can heal other characters, there's a stance change character that swaps between speed and power, one that utilises shield surfing to be constantly moving while attacking (tricky to handle, but effective when you can).

In Dynasty Warriors games you get characters that have different movesets but it all amounts to just hitting enemies and doing damage. It's not like in mainline Zelda games where your different pieces of equipment are used to do actually different things - like hook up to ledges, bomb cracks, reveal hidden passages, etc. When you compare this to BoTW, in the mini shrines (I forget their name) you're using a variety of spells to manipulate mechanisms; you actually have to think about what you're doing.

[Hero-of-Time]

Thanks for your thoughts/impressions, @darksnowman. They mirror how a few of us on here feel about the game and so you’re in good company.  

I think it comes down to what type of gamer you are. I much prefer a structured approach to things and I’m quite happy to be led from point A to point B. Leave me to find my own fun within a game and I just don’t see the appeal. It’s why I’m not big on the Animal Crossing series. 

As for the AoC talk, I actually just bought it and started playing it the other day. The story beats are interesting and it’s kinda what I wanted from BotW, at least in terms of telling a narrative. I do love the DW type games and think it’s hard to compare AoC to BotW because they are offer very different experiences. All you can say is which you find the most fun, which Glen has done.

 

[Hero-of-Time]

Just now, Sheikah said:

In Dynasty Warriors games you get characters that have different movesets but it all amounts to just hitting enemies and doing damage. It's not like in mainline Zelda games where your different pieces of equipment are used to do actually different things - like hook up to ledges, bomb cracks, reveal hidden passages, etc. When you compare this to BoTW, in the mini shrines (I forget their name) you're using a variety of spells to manipulate mechanisms; you actually have to think about what you're doing.

To be fair, in AoC you need to use things like bombs and all the features of the Sheikah slate, such as the ice power and time manipulation, in order to defeat enemies and manipulate the battle field in certain ways.

[Glen-i]

16 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

In Dynasty Warriors games you get characters that have different movesets but it all amounts to just hitting enemies and doing damage. It's not like in mainline Zelda games where your different pieces of equipment are used to do actually different things - like hook up to ledges, bomb cracks, reveal hidden passages, etc. When you compare this to BoTW, in the mini shrines (I forget their name) you're using a variety of spells to manipulate mechanisms; you actually have to think about what you're doing.

On the surface, yeah. But to really play effectively, you need to master the underlying mechanics of each character.

Impa is a great example of this. You go into a fight mashing the attack button, and she's kinda rubbish. You need to place a seal on an enemy and then press X to follow up. This attack is kinda slow and leaves you open, but if you land it, she gets those shadow clones up and her damage output gets a lot better (Some of her attacks change as well). You can do this three times at once, but after some time, they'll disappear. Before this happens though, you can expend those clones with an A attack and do significant damage. So she's all about cycling between getting clones up, using them to clear battlefields and then expending them to deal damage to a more dangerous enemy.

Even Link has some nuance to him. When he has a 2-handed weapon, he can charge up some powerful attacks, but this changes some of his hearts to blue, you can do this as many times as you like, but the more you do it, the more blue hearts you'll get. Get hit, and you'll lose all those blue hearts, which can be game-ending. Pressing X will have Link eat some bananas and turn those blue hearts red again. So you're playing a risk-reward game that rewards those who can effectively dodge attacks and can find a quiet moment to refill his red hearts.

Zelda has a limited moveset compared to other characters, but her Sheikah runes recharge faster and are very effective. Using the bomb rune has her create a giant bomb that she can control remotely as it walks around and spews smaller bombs everywhere. Attentive players will notice that Zelda is invincible while this happens, so you can even use it as makeshift panic button if you find yourself in a tight spot. Or you can cancel it early and have Zelda flank enemies while that bomb walks forwards by itself.

Simply put, I think it's disingenuous to say every character basically plays the same. There's more to it than that.

[MindFreak]

2 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said:

I think it comes down to what type of gamer you are. I much prefer a structured approach to things and I’m quite happy to be led from point A to point B. Leave me to find my own fun within a game and I just don’t see the appeal. It’s why I’m not big on the Animal Crossing series. 

Same with me. However, for some reason, I did enjoy BotW when I played it. It had enough points of interests and I made some sub-tasks for me to complete (find all shrines, find some dragon, find each memory, ...).