PlayStation Vita Console Discussion

[Zell]

I think the "playing in short bursts" argument is relevant, but I think there's more to it than that, because a lot of console games can be played in short bursts too. What's important is offering an experience that the home consoles don't have. For instance, the DS sparked a renaissance of the Adventure genre with stuff like Phoenix Wright. Those games are a lot like books; I'd always end up playing them in bed or on the go. It's hard to describe, but playing these games on a handheld is a better experience than if I were to play them on a home console. On the other hand, games like FIFA or Wipeout can work well on handhelds, but you'd probably rather play them on a home console if you're at home.

 

The main reason why the DS was so successful was the games. It had several big franchises that were not only exclusive to the DS, but exclusive to handheld gaming, such as Brain Training, Nintendogs, Professor Layton and of course Pokemon. The Vita can succeed, but it will need games that aren't just taken from franchises on the PS3.

 

As for what Zech's second point, if you get a 3G you don't need to buy a data plan you can just use the Wifi. And as for his third, see the above paragraph.

 

Apologies if I'm being ignorant here, but if you buy a 3G model and don't get a data plan then surely that's a waste of money? What's the point of buying the 3G model if you're not going to be using the 3G? I think the point he was trying to make was that getting the 3G model will be more expensive than it seems because you'll be paying for a data plan as well.

[Aimless]

then theres the games they are the same price as console ones! uncharted is £44.99! 3DS games are £40 in expensive shops as a maximum if you shop around they are between £25-30

As far as I'm aware Golden Abyss is the only game that's part of that top-tier price bracket, with the majority falling into the £35 tier and a few below that. Also, that is RRP, which is typically £35 for a 3DS game, or £50+ for a 360/PS3 title. If you look at actual prices on websites like Play, you can find every game that isn't Uncharted for £17.99-29.99.

 

When the 3DS launched people were paying £39.99 for launch games. That is no longer that case because retailers know they can't get away with it outside that temporary window of consumer madness. The same will be true of the Vita.

 

I don't really have a problem with the system price. It's decent value given the technology and it's pretty pointless to target the mass market out of the gate. The price will come down eventually, and honestly I don't think it's as big a deal as people make it out to be: the GameCube was a relative failure despite launching at a cheaper price than the competition, and people paid anything for a Wii via eBay when it became the must-have Christmas present. Being cheap doesn't count for much, creating demand is the challenge.

 

That said, memory cards need to be cheaper if Sony want to push digital purchases. Memory cards have always had a decent mark up on them — be that PS2, GameCube or even 360 HDDs — as it's where manufacturers make their money, but the Vita's lack of internal storage makes it a rather short-sighted move. At the absolute least the 3G version should come with a 4GB card packed in.

[Daft]

Apologies if I'm being ignorant here, but if you buy a 3G model and don't get a data plan then surely that's a waste of money? What's the point of buying the 3G model if you're not going to be using the 3G? I think the point he was trying to make was that getting the 3G model will be more expensive than it seems because you'll be paying for a data plan as well.

 

The his point is moot anyway because if you think that it's too expensive then you just buy the cheaper Wifi version. It's an absolute non-point. Sony aren't forcing anyone to buy the 3G. Zechs is essentially having a go at Sony for giving consumers a choice.

 

Not sure why you would just tether the WiFi to your phone, tbh.

[Debug Mode]

I cannot wait for the Vita. I cannot wait to message my friends quickly and easily. Be able to see when they're online when I'm sitting in bed. Play actual games. Be looking forward to the prospects of new games and announcements and be excited by what the hardware can achieve. I cannot wait to experience the future of handheld gaming.

 

I pretty much agree with all this except the part that I've bolded. C'mon Rez, that just comes across as "I only play mature games for mature gamers like myself" haha.

 

Although the 3DS online service has been getting progressively better, it's still miles behind what is to be expected these days. See your friends online? Got that. Join your friends game? Got that now. Message your friends? Please exit all current applications to launch LetterBox. Want to send your friend a short voice message? Hue, that'll be 15 play coins. It's ridiculous.

 

The 3DS is a very powerful device, but the rendering of two images to create the 3D is very resource intensive and pretty much acts as a bottleneck. Vita can offer and do so much because its raw power isn't held back for a main selling feature.

 

The price point is amazing for what you're getting. But then they fucked it up by over pricing the necessary extra's. They then announced it was region free, absolutely amazing considering Nintendo stupidly decided to back out of that. Then they fucked it up by making the process of switching your PSN accounts completely exhausting. They offer a great utility for your PC to allow you to swap your PSP saves to your Vita as well as seamlessly syncing videos and music to your device, but they fucked that up too by using it to monitor what you're putting on the device.

 

Until they fix that shit, I wont be picking it up despite how much I would like one.

[Zell]

 

The his point is moot anyway because if you think that it's too expensive then you just buy the cheaper Wifi version. It's an absolute non-point. Sony aren't forcing anyone to buy the 3G. Zechs is essentially having a go at Sony for giving consumers a choice.

 

Not sure why you would just tether the WiFi to your phone, tbh.

 

Oh I agree, if you don't want 3G then you don't bother getting it! I personally can't see lot of people caring about having their Vitas connected to the internet all the time wherever they go.

[ipaul]

I'm pretty worried I'll want one of these like crazy when they come out. It wouldn't usually be a problem but since I have a 3DS, it'll be pretty hard for me to justify having both consoles. Rez's point strikes a chord with me, the 3DS does feel a bit rooted in the past (the concern is that this will happen with Nintendo's next home console again)

 

I've really enjoyed playing OoT and Lylat Wars on the 3DS, they're great nostalgia trips, but there's not too many new games on the system I'm looking forward to. I have Mario Kart 7 and while it's a solid game, there's nothing revelatory about it. I've decided from playing it that I actually just love MK64 for the nostalgia (and the stupidly long, glitch courses) and generally I can take or leave the series. My main beef with the 3DS is that the online and a few other features just feel so botched. Nintendo really need to get their heads around this quickly, they've already fallen way behind the pack in this regard.

 

Also, this point about the PSVita being just a handheld PS3. As Daft points out it's not really true, but suppose it were true, what exactly would be bad about that? The PS3 happens to be pretty fucking awesome. I mean seriously, if people are telling me I shouldn't get one because I'll be able to play games like Uncharted and Wipeout on the go at near PS3 graphics...is this really an argument? Really?

[Agent Gibbs]

Also, this point about the PSVita being just a handheld PS3. As Daft points out it's not really true, but suppose it were true, what exactly would be bad about that? The PS3 happens to be pretty fucking awesome. I mean seriously, if people are telling me I shouldn't get one because I'll be able to play games like Uncharted and Wipeout on the go at near PS3 graphics...is this really an argument? Really?

 

I think the argument there comes from a business mindset in that they are not differentiating the product from another, and it could instead of generating a separate market for the PSV, could actually split the market so half of the ps3 users abandon it to buy the PSV and have games on the go. Sony want to expand their market share not keep it the same over multiple products.

 

Think of it this way if MGS5 comes out on both the PS3 and PSV would you buy the game twice? or just for one of them?

 

Then theres new customers sony will want them to buy all their products, but having the PS3 and PSV play the same games will force everyone bar money bags's to buy only one.

If they further differentiate the PSV like nintendo did with the DS so it has its own unique IP's then it further adds to the selling prowess of the psv

 

Its an odd argument i'll give it that but there is a point there, or at least thats what i think people are getting at.

[Daft]

Already a couple of the games work on both PS3 and Vita with only one copy, Motorstorm and Wipeout. I suspect if a game can cross play it'll come bundled.

 

I doubt many developers would do straight ports of the same game for the reasons you mentioned. I doubt it'll ever be a real problem. You can already see that from the games announced.

 

As for new IPs Escape Plan, Little Deviants and Gravity Rush are an example of three.

 

Apart from the whole price issue, I can't really see what more anyone could ask. And if the improvements to firmware Sony have made on the PS3 are anything to go by, the Vita is only going to get better from probably the best launch of a console ever.

 

EDIT:

 

Uncharted: Golden Abyss Review

 

Was actually expecting it to be kind of lame.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Daft

[Jamba]

I hate to say it but there are a lot of opinions that aren't based on any kind of experience of actually using or playing a Vita. Apart from one... the price. But that's just a value call.

[Domstercool]

8/10 seems about right. It almost feels like Uncharted 1, in the sense that there are less set pieces, but more climbing around the surroundings you are in. Only up to Chapter 15 so far though. It's a great launch title and I'd say anyone picking up a Vita should play it.

[ReZourceman]

I pretty much agree with all this except the part that I've bolded. C'mon Rez, that just comes across as "I only play mature games for mature gamers like myself" haha.

 

I should have re-worded it, I meant "Actually play games" as in, the Vita has more games in launch than 3DS does in a year.

 

 

 

 

 

May not quite be accurate, but that is what I'm getting at.

 

 

And also ; LOL Zechs. Are you not dead yet?

[Jon]

I think the 'playing in short bursts' angle is completely irrelevant. You as the gamer and the person in control dictate how long you want to play it for. Years of terrible marketing and PR have some how managed to spin games with short levels and a more arcade like feel into being some sort of cool feature.

[Emerald Emblem]

I think the 'playing in short bursts' angle is completely irrelevant. You as the gamer and the person in control dictate how long you want to play it for.

 

On handhelds however it's battery life that sets the limits, provided you don't mind running the battery life down by playing at home near a power supply.

[Grazza]

The thing I'm most interested in (and the thing I haven't seen anything about) is how good the Vita's web abilities are. I want to know if it supports any non-streaming video formats, whether you can display a vertical image on its side (which you can't with the 3DS) etc. I suppose we won't know for sure what ours will be like until the North American and European units are available? It's just that I'm totally, utterly impressed by the graphics, controls etc, but also wondered if it would be one of the best web browsers available.

[Aimless]

It definitely won't be at launch as I don't think it supports Flash or HTML5 fully. However, the fact the 3DS didn't launch with a browser shows how fluid this generation of handhelds is, so presumably things will improve. Potentially even before Vita's released in the West.

 

I can't speak to the photo viewing capabilities but I know the browser doesn't currently support tilt-based aspect shifting, unless the option is hidden away in a menu. I suppose unlike a phone there is a very obvious 'right' way to hold the device, but there's no reason such features couldn't be implemented in the future if there's demand for it.

 

This is a bit of a tangent, but one of things that I find encouraging about the Vita is how much Sony have clearly learnt from a software/networking perspective. The PS3 is almost unrecognisable from the machine that launched thanks to firmware updates, so I'll be interested where they can take the Vita given that, based on what I've seen, it surpasses the current consoles in terms of base functionality.

[Wesley]

HEY GUYS YOU ALL LIKE SALES STUFF RIGHT?

 

PlayStation Vita sales plummet in second week

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/sony/8983310/PlayStation-Vita-sales-plummet-in-second-week.html

[Aimless]

Of more interest to those of us outside Japan, GameStop are the first to get the price war ball rolling: Wi-FI model for £210, 3G for £245.

 

At least I hope it flares into a proper war. Fight, supermarkets, fight!

[Zechs Merquise]

Launching such an expensive device when times are hard and there's nothing to differentiate what it does between what actual home consoles do is a risky strategy.

 

The expensive memory and the added expense for those picking up the 3G model will also put consumers off.

 

The PSP brand in the West suffered damage after the PSP Go flopped hard so it's not got the kind of customer loyalty Nintendo will have with the 3DS. What's more the 3DS is now really taking off and is at a price consumers are willing to pay.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the PS Vita has more troubles, especially in the US.

 

I should have re-worded it, I meant "Actually play games" as in, the Vita has more games in launch than 3DS does in a year.

 

May not quite be accurate, but that is what I'm getting at.

 

And also ; LOL Zechs. Are you not dead yet?

 

Unfortunately for you, I seem to be far more alive than sales of the PS Vita!

[Daft]

Man, you talk so much shit. Your armchair market research is embarrassing. The PSP brand suffered as a result of the PSP Go? Got any hard evidence to back that up?

 

The PS Vita is much more geared to the Western market at the moment than it is a Japanese one. Uncharted has never been a big seller in Japan.

 

Apple really spoiled the idea of a successful product launch. Suddenly you have idiots expecting a million and one units to be sold in a matter of days. The Vita hasn't even launched in the rest of the world. I would have thought someone who had to deal with the 3DS doom sayers wouldn't be as moronic to do the same thing to the Vita.

 

The PSP has a huge install base (Just over 71 million units sold) so the chances of the Vita failing are already unlikely. Added to the fact it is a much better console than the PSP ever was. And that it has a very promising schedule unlike the PSP which had massive droughts (Helped by the fact Sony own about thee times as many studios as they did in 2006). And that the price will come down. It's more likely, like the PS3, it just needs a bit of momentum (and it'll probable it'll pick that up much faster than the PS3 did). Would you consider the PSP a failure? You're an idiot if you do.

 

Also, what do you mean unfortunately for Rez? My God? Does Rez have shares in Sony?! Oh no, you're just pathetic enough to think this is some kind of competition. Console war yawn.

[killer kirby]

I think the 2nd point is moot since you don't have to get the 3G version, the 3rd one is an old complaint against the psp which you are assuming carries over to the vita without proper research (just look at how different Vita's functionality is from a console?), and the 1st is opinion.

 

The problem is is that Sony didn't produce non-3G as much as the 3G when pre-orders and the opinion of the Japanese public was that they didn't want the 3G as they have no interest in it, but Sony went ahead and made more 3G's than the non-3G.

 

It's like being asked for something that tastes better at a cheaper price, or one that tastes exactly like the cheaper one and has more extra's that look like more trouble than it's worth and is super expensive. Then you get told that you can't have the cheaper one but only the super expensive one.

 

I'll get the system, but just like the PSP, I'll just wait for the cfw, even if it's years before it's out.

 

I want to see the 3rd week more than anything, all sales go down after the christmas rush. 50k anyone?

 

EDIT: I should also mention Sony were idiots into missing the boat with Monster Hunter, they should have at all cost made sure they had that game and not Nintendo. Nintendo had eyes on that series for a long time, everyone knew that the moment Nintendo brought out a handheled with the power to run it would do anything to get MH onto the system.

 

That series alone made PSP survive for another 2 years.

Edited December 31, 2011 by killer kirby

[Wesley]

Of more interest to those of us outside Japan, GameStop are the first to get the price war ball rolling: Wi-FI model for £210, 3G for £245.

 

At least I hope it flares into a proper war. Fight, supermarkets, fight!

 

I thought GameStop were closing their UK operations?

 

Is that stores only then?

 

Hum...

 

Also what's a Vita?

[Debug Mode]

Man, you talk so much shit. Your armchair market research is embarrassing. The PSP brand suffered as a result of the PSP Go? Got any hard evidence to back that up?

 

Just gonna chip in a bit here. I personally think the PSP Go was far too ambitious considering the strategy to move to completely digital library as it pretty much locked out PSP fans who had the hard copies as potential customers. That and the huge free game fiasco I kept encountering every time I considered picking one up put me off the device too.

 

I wouldn't say it dragged down the brand, I'd describe it more as effort wasted on too huge of a change in direction. Sony has never officially released sales data for the PSP Go, which is strongly indicative that it was possible a failed venture commercially, though a success in R&D for how the Vita would handle digital distribution.

[Retro_Link]

@Zechs Merquise... I'd say the opportunity for 'home console gaming on the go' is quite a differentiator... we'll just have to see if it's one people will go for.

 

Also, what do you mean unfortunately for Rez?

That was aimed as Rez's unnecessary comment.

[Daft]

Just gonna chip in a bit here. I personally think the PSP Go was far too ambitious considering the strategy to move to completely digital library as it pretty much locked out PSP fans who had the hard copies as potential customers. That and the huge free game fiasco I kept encountering every time I considered picking one up put me off the device too.

 

I wouldn't say it dragged down the brand, I'd describe it more as effort wasted on too huge of a change in direction. Sony has never officially released sales data for the PSP Go, which is strongly indicative that it was possible a failed venture commercially, though a success in R&D for how the Vita would handle digital distribution.

 

Yeah, I agree the PSP Go was a botched experiment. It was definitely a commercial failure but, like you said, an intended half step to the Vita, a bit of R&D (and I think that was the reason for its stupid price) but it didn't damage the brand.

 

[MENTION=2344]That was aimed as Rez's unnecessary comment.

 

Doesn't explain how Rez's luck is tied to the Vitas.

[Aneres11]

I honestly think that the Vita will struggle to sell.

 

The first batch of sales (as in launch week) I think will probably be fine, but after that I think they will see a slump.

 

Not hating on it, coz I will be there on launch day buying one!

 

But the Vita's market are people who have a PS3... They are marketing this console towards people who would like to have a PS3 style experience on a handheld. The fact Uncharted is a launch title suggests that.

 

Whilst I am down with that shit a lot of people won't be and I think it's going to take a long time before they see lots of units being shifted.

 

I'm inclined to agree with the pricing point too in that it is a little expensive. Personally for me, I'm ok with the price as I know what the system can do and think it's pretty impressive. But for those who don't know, they will see the price and be instantly put off. Especially when compared to how much a PS3/360 can be picked up for.

 

I am looking forward to the Vita. Think Sony have learned a lot from the PSP era and have put a lot of focus into this. My gripe is that I don't think it has a major audience to sell to or anything unique enough about it to cater to anyone other than a current Sony gamer.