sumo73 Posted November 1, 2020 Posted November 1, 2020 4 hours ago, Will said: I agree with the general sentiment here but I do think the UK government have probably won the prize for biggest shambles and most avoidable fuck ups during the whole pandemic, and I include the US in that. Over here I really think they’re doing a great job of keeping things under control. Some major mis-steps at the start, for sure, but now it’s quite clear how it’s being managed and what the stages of the process will be. Easier to control COVID-19 in smaller places like Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan. Also I'm guessing the anti mask, anti vaccine group of people in those places are a lot smaller than in the UK and the USA.
nightwolf Posted November 1, 2020 Posted November 1, 2020 1 hour ago, sumo73 said: Easier to control COVID-19 in smaller places like Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan. Also I'm guessing the anti mask, anti vaccine group of people in those places are a lot smaller than in the UK and the USA. I was going to respond to the longer comments, but I'm on my mobile and lazy. At the start of the pandemic I'd have agreed with you. But simply put my attitude is that we have hundreds of folk who are far smarter than me telling the government what will happen with far more degree of accuracy than I understand. The government has ignored it. I stand by my statement because I've yet to see any fucking reason to believe otherwise. Yes I'm a little tilted...
Happenstance Posted November 1, 2020 Posted November 1, 2020 Yep, when all this started and we had a load of people complaining about how everything was being handled I was a lot more forgiving. I figured they knew what they were doing and were following the experts advice. As it's gone on it's clear that the government aren't, especially in the last few months. This entire thing has been handled terribly and has cost a lot of lives that didn't need to be lost. 1
sumo73 Posted November 1, 2020 Posted November 1, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, nightwolf said: At the start of the pandemic I'd have agreed with you. But simply put my attitude is that we have hundreds of folk who are far smarter than me telling the government what will happen with far more degree of accuracy than I understand. The government has ignored it. I stand by my statement because I've yet to see any fucking reason to believe otherwise. Yes I'm a little tilted... Imagine being the UK government back in March, one set of scientists saying the government is doing too much and another set of scientists saying we aren't doing enough. So what scientists/experts do you listen to? Pressure from the airlines and big businesses to keep everything open as normal and pressure from others to close/reduce air travel. Pressure to just drop everything and act like Sweden with less limited restrictions.The government acted at times like a rabbit stuck in the headlights unable to fully appease anyone. Also as we got to understand more about the virus the advice changed. At the start of this, I looked at what was happening in China, Hong Kong, Taiwan and to a lesser extent Japan and followed the advice there about wearing masks (this is just one example). Very few people wore one back then in the UK and I certainly got a few stares but I didn't care. Had the government started giving the advice about masks earlier things would have changed in my view. People have too much faith in governments, just look at President Trump in the USA he thought wearing masks was a bad idea (and influenced others) and he got COVID-19 recently. Biden who wears masks is fine. We have to ask ourselves how much faith can we put in governments and what we must do ourselves? I don't really know the end goal of the UK government here and when all of this is finally going to end. Edited November 1, 2020 by sumo73
Will Posted November 2, 2020 Posted November 2, 2020 14 hours ago, sumo73 said: Easier to control COVID-19 in smaller places like Singapore, Hong Kong and Taiwan. Also I'm guessing the anti mask, anti vaccine group of people in those places are a lot smaller than in the UK and the USA. You’re right, of course, but it doesn’t excuse the complete mess the UK has made of it. 12 hours ago, sumo73 said: Imagine being the UK government back in March, one set of scientists saying the government is doing too much and another set of scientists saying we aren't doing enough. So what scientists/experts do you listen to? Pressure from the airlines and big businesses to keep everything open as normal and pressure from others to close/reduce air travel. Pressure to just drop everything and act like Sweden with less limited restrictions.The government acted at times like a rabbit stuck in the headlights unable to fully appease anyone. Also as we got to understand more about the virus the advice changed. The rabbit in the headlights is a good way of putting it. It seems to be ineffective action done too late and not thought out well enough at all and it’s lead to chaos. Most countries said the same thing about masks at the start but they changed their response as things progressed. I would say the UK could have done the same thing but it was all done in such a shambolic way nothing has been effective. They still don’t seem to have learned, this latest lockdown isn’t a lockdown for everyone and it makes no sense. I’m sure there will be some push to increase spending over Christmas a la eat out to help out which will lead to another spike in cases and lockdown part three sometime early next year.
Beast Posted November 2, 2020 Posted November 2, 2020 8 hours ago, Will said: You’re right, of course, but it doesn’t excuse the complete mess the UK has made of it. The rabbit in the headlights is a good way of putting it. It seems to be ineffective action done too late and not thought out well enough at all and it’s lead to chaos. Most countries said the same thing about masks at the start but they changed their response as things progressed. I would say the UK could have done the same thing but it was all done in such a shambolic way nothing has been effective. They still don’t seem to have learned, this latest lockdown isn’t a lockdown for everyone and it makes no sense. I’m sure there will be some push to increase spending over Christmas a la eat out to help out which will lead to another spike in cases and lockdown part three sometime early next year. This. Exactly this. The government has completely ignored any advice given to them. I understand the point of view of one set of scientists and another but the simple fact of it is literally what @sumo73 said- looking at other countries and seeing how they've handled the situation. I, too, was wearing a mask before it was made law (which I'm against) and that was something I did more or less from the start of lockdown along with gloves too and hand sanitiser. The fact that CIVILIANS saw that and wore the mask without it being a requirement to do so is what the joke is for me. Same goes with people fucking off abroad for their holidays, coming back and not isolating (and it has happened). People can blame wearing masks all they like (as that's all I've heard irl) but for me, I don't think people should've gone abroad on their jollies and should only go if it was absolutely necessary. People not staying hygienic would be another thing as well. They can close non-essential shops all they like but let's face it, everybody needs supermarkets for food and drink so obviously, supermarkets would be a hotspot for it, surely? This is something that's going to be here for a long time- just like the flu, which will also kill people at this time of year too. 2
EEVILMURRAY Posted November 2, 2020 Posted November 2, 2020 https://newsthump.com/2020/10/31/boris-lockdown-announcement-delayed-until-he-can-prevent-it-looking-like-hes-doing-exactly-what-keir-starmer-told-him-to-do/ The bravado by the government is just so aggravating. They can queef out all that "following the science", when it showed that they didn't really. And when faced with additional science, examples set across the world, a suggestion by future Prime Minister Keir Starmer, Boris said "Ooooh, nooo, local lockdowns are cool, you feel me? Never gonna tell the country what to do" Now possibly his biggest u-turn ever, which I think is in part a decoy from the Rashford stuff, now with furlough having to be extended, maybe the meals thing will too, but this was all Boris' idea. Honest! 1
Pestneb Posted November 3, 2020 Posted November 3, 2020 On 11/2/2020 at 9:16 AM, Beast said: just like the flu, which will also kill people at this time of year too. I imagine the flu won't do too much this year. With covid precautions, flu just isn't as contagious generally, with a lockdown it's not going to spread so much. symptoms from flu are much quicker to appear iirc which means people have a smaller window to spread it, with covid restrictions etc. and the immediate false positive it will give I think flu will struggle to do much this year. Sure there will be a few deaths but I think from a purely flu perspective deaths will be incredibly low. I'm hoping that the general population are going to form some kind of appropriate immune response asap, that covid will become something more akin to the common cold in effect and that we can move on and continue our lives quite soon. these lock downs are really not on (not saying it's not needed, just that it shouldn't be needed). My next door neighbour was talking loudly on his phone hhow his vibes are too high for him to catch covid. Hope so for his sake, but he's the kind of guy who would spread it far and wide if he ever catches it.
Mr_Odwin Posted November 4, 2020 Posted November 4, 2020 I get the feeling that the government's response is based on a hope that a vaccine will come soon; it's too late for us to do a New Zealand, and herd immunity would cause too much of a burden on the NHS, or would drag it out over many years. So the only viable option is a vaccine coming in to rescue the day.
Julius Posted November 9, 2020 Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) Great news today about Pfizer and BioNTech's vaccine offering 90%+ protection. They would have been hoping for 70% - 80%, and it could still have passed at 50%. From the BBC: Quote Their vaccine has been tested on 43,500 people in six countries and no safety concerns have been raised. The companies plan to apply for emergency approval to use the vaccine by the end of the month. There are still huge challenges ahead, but the announcement has been warmly welcomed with scientists describing themselves smiling "ear to ear" and some suggesting life could be back to normal by spring. "I am probably the first guy to say that, but I will say that with some confidence," said Sir John Bell, regius professor of medicine at Oxford University. There are around a dozen in the final stages of testing - known as a phase 3 trial - but this is the first to show any results. It uses a completely experimental approach - that involves injecting part of the virus's genetic code - in order to train the immune system. Previous trials have shown the vaccine trains the body to make both antibodies - and another part of the immune system called T-cells to fight the coronavirus. Two doses, three weeks apart, are needed. The trials - in US, Germany, Brazil, Argentina, South Africa and Turkey - show 90% protection is achieved seven days after the second dose. Pfizer believes it will be able to supply 50 million doses by the end of this year, and around 1.3 billion by the end of 2021. The UK should get 10 million doses by the end of the year, with a further 30 million doses already ordered. However there are logistical challenges, as the vaccine has to be kept in ultra-cold storage at below minus 80C. Great news! Edited November 9, 2020 by Julius
drahkon Posted November 9, 2020 Posted November 9, 2020 Somebody with knowledge in the field, please tell me how this is way too optimistic and why I shouldn't expect anything great
Happenstance Posted November 9, 2020 Posted November 9, 2020 WE'RE SAVED!!! *Runs into the street and starts rubbing against people* 1
Ashley Posted November 9, 2020 Posted November 9, 2020 1 hour ago, drahkon said: Somebody with knowledge in the field, please tell me how this is way too optimistic and why I shouldn't expect anything great It's a good sign but needs to go through government approval (in all the relevant governments that plan to us it) so it'll be next month at best based on what most are saying. Seems that you need multiple doses: Quote Van-Tam says all but one of the key vaccines likely to be ready early require two doses. And people would have to wait between 21 and 28 days for the second dose. And he says, to be protected, people will have to wait until 14 days after the second dose. Plus for obvious reasons certain groups will be prioritised so I think even all being well it'll be closer to summer before most of us get it. Did that help? 😋
drahkon Posted November 9, 2020 Posted November 9, 2020 33 minutes ago, Ashley said: Did that help? 😋 Yeah, that dampened the mood. Thanks, Ashley 1
Beast Posted November 9, 2020 Posted November 9, 2020 I'm sick of these people who feel so self-righteous to be nasty to other people because they're not wearing a mask. It's actually really grating on my nerves now. It's like lockdown has stripped everybody of their manners. Even when I enter a store, they're like "WHERE'S YOUR MASK?!" in such a rude way and I'm like "Bitch, lower the tone and ask me politely and I'll respond politely". It's really getting to me now. Like, I wear a mask when my breathing is alright. When my breathing isn't as good (asthmatic), I don't wear one but I keep my distance anyway and it's only ever on occasion and I've printed my own exemption card from the government website for such occasions should anybody ask. I've seen endless amount of videos with people going crazy over other people because they don't wear one and it's like "Dude, shut up! Stay away from them, keep a distance and go about your day! You coped for the four months when it wasn't law. Just wash your hands, keep 2 metres and be good people." I went into Asda to get some lactose free milk and I had a woman practically shouting at me, saying "YOU NEED A MASK OR YOU CAN'T ENTER!" and I showed her my exempt card. She quizzed me why and I said "I'm asthmatic, which I don't mind telling you but honestly, you're not meant to ask. I've showed you my card but I can put my mask on if you want". She said "So you're not exempt then?" and I said "I am but you shouldn't ask people. It's on the government website". She told me I needed a sunflower lanyard if I wanted to not be exempt and she said it rather snotty and I said "Again, I don't. Clearly states it on the website. You need to read it. I'm not mad at you for asking but I'm mad at you for your approach. I know it's tough in retail but you don't take it out on the ones who haven't started on you..." and walked off. I paid for my milk and as I walked out, she wasn't at the entrance with her box of masks. The security guard nodded at me and approached me and told me he read the website and backed me up. He showed her and she wasn't too happy. Apparently she saw me in the self-serve paying and scarpered. Now, I'm not one of those people who refuse to wear a mask just because. However, I do believe that it shouldn't be law and that it should be a choice. If anything, you're touching hundreds of items in shops every day that have been held by literally hundreds of people beforehand. They could have germs all over them but I question how many people wipe over their items with Dettol wipes or clean them before putting them in their cupboards and fridges. 1
Eenuh Posted November 13, 2020 Posted November 13, 2020 So things haven't been going well at work, with no projects coming in since August. We make whiteboard videos for businesses, universities etc, but if none of them are working, obviously they are not going to spend money on videos... Because of this, I've been put on furlough since last week. I know a lot of people are thinking that it's great, no work and 80% of your pay, but I'd honestly rather be working and getting my full pay! I'm worried about my job though, as I think my boss is listed as a director of his limited company (as is his wife, I'm the only employee), and I don't think they can get any government support. Which means they have no income. And if this keeps going on for too long, they will probably have to close down the business, meaning I'd be out of a job. All this lockdown stuff is starting to weigh on me too, every day just feels the same, with nothing happening at all. At least during the Spring we were still getting some work in and I could spend lots of time working in the garden, but not during Winter. I'm stuck inside the house and have only seen 2 friends since February, and I've seen my family once this entire year. I'm going to cancel my trip to see them over Christmas as it's just not happening with all these restrictions. The only good thing is I've had some time to work on some of my own stuff, which I'll post in the Good Stuff Thread! Let's hope this vaccine will work and they can give it to loads of people, so things can start going back to normal! 1
Will Posted November 13, 2020 Posted November 13, 2020 2 hours ago, Eenuh said: So things haven't been going well at work, with no projects coming in since August. We make whiteboard videos for businesses, universities etc, but if none of them are working, obviously they are not going to spend money on videos... Maybe this is totally obvious but... what’s a whiteboard video? 2 hours ago, Eenuh said: Because of this, I've been put on furlough since last week. I know a lot of people are thinking that it's great, no work and 80% of your pay, but I'd honestly rather be working and getting my full pay! I'm worried about my job though, as I think my boss is listed as a director of his limited company (as is his wife, I'm the only employee), and I don't think they can get any government support. Which means they have no income. And if this keeps going on for too long, they will probably have to close down the business, meaning I'd be out of a job. I think a lot of people think of furlough as being a nice holiday on close to your normal pay and everything going back to normal as soon as it’s over. Unfortunately the reality is often much bleaker, especially for the smaller companies out there. Hope it all pulls together for the company and they can find a way to get things working properly again. 2 hours ago, Eenuh said: All this lockdown stuff is starting to weigh on me too, every day just feels the same, with nothing happening at all. At least during the Spring we were still getting some work in and I could spend lots of time working in the garden, but not during Winter. I'm stuck inside the house and have only seen 2 friends since February, and I've seen my family once this entire year. I'm going to cancel my trip to see them over Christmas as it's just not happening with all these restrictions. I totally understand how you feel with not seeing family. We’ve not seen ours on either side since July last year and since we had the baby they’ve all missed out on some really nice things due to the ongoing difficulties with travel. We’ve also scrapped our Christmas plans which I’m pretty upset about, but we’re at least hoping we’ll be able to get over to Japan for new year and see that side. The restrictions really do suck. 2 hours ago, Eenuh said: Let's hope this vaccine will work and they can give it to loads of people, so things can start going back to normal! Really hope it does work out. Even if not we should get to the point where testing improves and processes are put in place to open more things up safely. Certainly in Asia we’re getting to a place where you can do pretty much everything, just with increased regulations to follow. There’s still a long way to go but it does kind of feel like we have an end in sight.
Eenuh Posted November 13, 2020 Posted November 13, 2020 13 minutes ago, Will said: Maybe this is totally obvious but... what’s a whiteboard video? Hahaha, I guess it's not obvious what a whiteboard video is. It's basically one of those animations where it looks like a hand is drawing on a whiteboard. Here's one I made during the first lockdown (normally we use voice overs but not with this one as it wasn't a client video, just something to keep me busy haha). 18 minutes ago, Will said: I totally understand how you feel with not seeing family. We’ve not seen ours on either side since July last year and since we had the baby they’ve all missed out on some really nice things due to the ongoing difficulties with travel. We’ve also scrapped our Christmas plans which I’m pretty upset about, but we’re at least hoping we’ll be able to get over to Japan for new year and see that side. The restrictions really do suck. Really hope it does work out. Even if not we should get to the point where testing improves and processes are put in place to open more things up safely. Certainly in Asia we’re getting to a place where you can do pretty much everything, just with increased regulations to follow. There’s still a long way to go but it does kind of feel like we have an end in sight. I'm sorry that you haven't seen your family in such a long time, it must be especially hard since you've had the baby and they've all had to miss out on that. And yeah, having to cancel Christmas is just not fun at all is it? Fingers crossed you can see them in the new year! My sister has told us she is expecting her second child, so I'm hoping for her sake that things return to normal soon so she can at least experience a normal birth and have family support her. I'm really putting all my hopes on these vaccines haha. 3
Will Posted November 13, 2020 Posted November 13, 2020 10 minutes ago, Eenuh said: It's basically one of those animations where it looks like a hand is drawing on a whiteboard. Well I learnt something today! Had no idea there was a name for those but it does totally make sense they’d be called that. Can see how it would be a nice little business. I imagine you could make quite a good YouTube channel explaining various things with that. I bet it already exists.
drahkon Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 A surprisingly large number of people I know seem to think that the vaccine(s), which will hopefully be approved soon, are highly dangerous and don't want to get vaccinated. My efforts to explain to them how the mRNA vaccines are less dangerous than what we usually get are in vain. Thankfully, none of my friends think that way. Sadly, my mom is always very suspicious of side effects. No matter what her doctor prescribes her, she always looks up all possible side effects...and of course, some of them are quite severe. This usually means: "Nah, I don't need it...too dangerous" Makes me sad and occasionally quite angry...especially because it's the same with the new vaccine... She did, however, tell me that she wants to get vaccinated. But she will definitely read up on all side effects... Very grateful that this is the only problem with my mom, though She's not adverse to science and medicine in general and doesn't deny the pandemic.
MindFreak Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 Yeah, anti-vaxers are really starting to rumble now... It's alright to be sceptical but I hope that most people will accept the vaccine so we can get on with your lives. Even though I don't think I really need the vaccine and would prefer to just ignore it, if offered I'd accept it as that's the right thing to do. 1
Ashley Posted December 3, 2020 Posted December 3, 2020 I sent my mom the priority list yesterday (nan is in third group based on age and underlying health conditions) and she was telling me my nan is sceptical. I think/hope it comes from not knowing but first of all said side effects aren't known (said they are and they're pretty standard) and then said she's worried she'll get it (I assume she means from the vaccine) so I explained some, or maybe all, don't give you a small dose unlike other vaccines. Admitted I'm less knowledgeable about that. Hopefully her healthcare person (no idea if it's a doctor, nurse or whatever as always just referred to by name) will be able to explain and reassure her. My nan trusts her, problem is she reads the sun which I'm sure is spreading bullshit. I did think maybe the NHS should get Ted Ed to produce one of those short animated explanation videos and air that on BBC. The press briefings are quite dry and there seems to be little effort to explain things in an understandable way. I would hope a lot of scepticism would be alleviated with simple explanations, although I know there will be a contingency that are against it in principle but I think some people are just uninformed at the moment.
Mr_Odwin Posted December 4, 2020 Posted December 4, 2020 21 hours ago, Ashley said: I sent my mom the priority list yesterday (nan is in third group based on age and underlying health conditions) and she was telling me my nan is sceptical. I think/hope it comes from not knowing but first of all said side effects aren't known (said they are and they're pretty standard) and then said she's worried she'll get it (I assume she means from the vaccine) so I explained some, or maybe all, don't give you a small dose unlike other vaccines. Admitted I'm less knowledgeable about that. Hopefully her healthcare person (no idea if it's a doctor, nurse or whatever as always just referred to by name) will be able to explain and reassure her. My nan trusts her, problem is she reads the sun which I'm sure is spreading bullshit. I did think maybe the NHS should get Ted Ed to produce one of those short animated explanation videos and air that on BBC. The press briefings are quite dry and there seems to be little effort to explain things in an understandable way. I would hope a lot of scepticism would be alleviated with simple explanations, although I know there will be a contingency that are against it in principle but I think some people are just uninformed at the moment. I think I read somewhere that the government were planning to use trusted celebrities to promote the vaccine (and no politicians). The only name mentioned was Marcus Rashford after his recent work.
Cube Posted December 4, 2020 Posted December 4, 2020 A friend of mine has her vaccine booked in for Tuesday (she works in a hospital). 7 minutes ago, Mr_Odwin said: I think I read somewhere that the government were planning to use trusted celebrities to promote the vaccine (and no politicians). The only name mentioned was Marcus Rashford after his recent work. I can see him snubbing the government's official promotion but still doing his own.
Recommended Posts