Xbox Series S | X Console Discussion

[Cube]

It has less ram and a lower GPU, so will likely have some other graphical downgrades than just resolution. 

[Dcubed]

1 minute ago, Cube said:

It has less ram and a lower GPU, so will likely have some other graphical downgrades than just resolution. 

Well it won't need the textures to be as high resolution if they aren't targetting 4K and above (That's why Smart Delivery exists).  So there's your RAM savings right there.  Also means that game file sizes should be smaller too, which is nice.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Dcubed

[Will]

So it must be vastly weaker than the Series X or else why would anyone go for that model?

I’m still totally confused by what Microsoft are doing, and really don’t have any idea what they want me to buy from them. The two consoles at least look WAY better than the PS5 models.

[Cube]

5 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

Well it won't need the textures to be as high resolution if they aren't targetting 4K and above (That's why Smart Delivery exists).  So there's your RAM savings right there.  Also means that game file sizes should be smaller too, which is nice.

The higher textures still make a difference at 1080p. (Also, I thought the "downloading important stuff only" feature had a different name and that Smart Delivery was the free upgrade).

[Goron_3]

9 minutes ago, S.C.G said:

So, if this Xbox Series S is no more powerful than an Xbox One Series X (a current gen console) does that mean that all Xbox Series X (next gen) will run on all current gen and next gen platforms, but in a way which is considered, vastly "downgraded" but still essentially running the games?

The Series S is much more powerful than the One X. At the very least, you're getting a 8X CPU boost and a 40x boost in memory speed (I think that's right). The only thing that is similar between the two machines is the GPU - they are roughly equal in terms of peak power however the Series S has a much more modern architecture.

The Series S is essentially a replacement for the current One S, and the Series X is a replacement for the One X, but the Series S is going to be capable of running games built for next gen. This is something that the current gen consoles could only dream off.

The issue with 4K is that it's incredible resource intensive due to the sheer number of pixels it's pushing. If they've got this right, the only difference between Microsoft's next gen consoles is that one pushes games at 4K and the other at 1080p. 

[Dcubed]

I still can't get over how insanely cheap this thing is!! It's mad!! They're even undercutting the Switch! They're practically giving it away!

This is literally the cheapest a new console has been since the Wii!

And then there's Game Pass! You literally don't even need to buy games for this thing!

How is Microsoft planning to even make money on this thing!?

Edited September 8, 2020 by Dcubed

[Zell]

5 minutes ago, will' said:

So it must be vastly weaker than the Series X or else why would anyone go for that model?

I’m still totally confused by what Microsoft are doing, and really don’t have any idea what they want me to buy from them. The two consoles at least look WAY better than the PS5 models.

They want you to buy Game Pass. Series S and Series X are just vehicles for you to access it.

Series S is targeted at people who don't have 4K TVs, have lower budgets for gaming, or generally speaking are casual gamers who aren't after the cutting edge. The idea is you will be getting the same experience as Series X just at lower resolutions. Whether that will be the reality remains to be seen, and it will be interesting to see what happens in 3-4 years time when games really start to make the most out of the PS5 and Series X.

[Goron_3]

6 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

I still can't get over how insanely cheap this thing is!! It's mad!! They're even undercutting the Switch! They're practically giving it away!

This is literally the cheapest a new console has been since the Wii!

And then there's Game Pass! You literally don't even need to buy games for this thing!

How is Microsoft planning to even make money on this thing!?

I imagine even 2-3 years of GamePass is insanely profitable for them. Likewise, dat digital download profit $$$.

[Ashley]

26 minutes ago, S.C.G said:

So, if this Xbox Series S is no more powerful than an Xbox One Series X (a current gen console) does that mean that all Xbox Series X (next gen) will run on all current gen and next gen platforms, but in a way which is considered, vastly "downgraded" but still essentially running the games?

This naming convention is seriously confusing me.

Had to re-read a few times to spot the 'One' in the second console mentioned here.

[Dcubed]

4 minutes ago, Goron_3 said:

I imagine even 2-3 years of GamePass is insanely profitable for them. Likewise, dat digital download profit $$$.

They're still losing money on Game Pass.  And really, you'd have to be mad to not get Gamepass with this thing; it's (literally!) a steal.

Microsoft will be bleeding incredible amounts of money on this console; like original Xbox levels of money.  No doubt they will eventually raise the price of Game Pass (they will have to eventually, to make ANY sort of profit on it), but until then? They will be losing billions by doing this.

No doubt they're playing the long game here; they want to eventually be making Office 365 levels of profit on Game Pass, but they're gonna be bleeding like mad to get to that point.

Sony can't possibly match this pricing.  They couldn't survive this level of bleeding.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Dcubed

[Goron_3]

1 minute ago, Dcubed said:

They're still losing money on Game Pass.  And really, you'd have to be mad to not get Gamepass with this thing; it's (literally!) a steal.

Microsoft will be bleeding incredible amounts of money on this console; like original Xbox levels of money.  No doubt they will eventually raise the price of Game Pass (they will have to eventually, to make ANY sort of profit on it), but until then? They will be losing billions by doing this.

No doubt they're playing the long game here; they want to eventually be making Office 365 levels of profit on Game Pass, but they're gonna be bleeding like mad to get to that point.

They are losing money now in the same way Spotify and Netflix lost huge sums upfront. They will enter a phase will GamePass where long term subscribers are continuing to pay but are playing less frequently - that's where the money lies. 

[Ganepark32]

17 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

I still can't get over how insanely cheap this thing is!! It's mad!! They're even undercutting the Switch! They're practically giving it away!

This is literally the cheapest a new console has been since the Wii!

And then there's Game Pass! You literally don't even need to buy games for this thing!

How is Microsoft planning to even make money on this thing!?

My one concern that I have for the Series S is something that just popped into my head based on a rumour that was going round: that to keep the cost down Microsoft might consider selling the box without a controller in the package. While not a consumer friendly way to go about things, they'd then make money on the sale of controllers at launch with this thing if that's how they're going to go.

I highly doubt they'll go for that though because even with that low price, asking people to then trump up for a controller separately would instantly kill any good will because then it really isn't £249.99/$299/€299, its an extra £50/$50/€50 at least on top. But its one way to keep the console cheap at point of sale and gain some money back on it. It's something I've heard that Sony may do for the digital PS5 to keep the cost at point of sale down as well.

Looking at figures, the All Access montly cost for this on the UK is likely to be around the £21/£22 mark. Thats insane. Gamepass Ultimate is £10.99 a month so effectively you'd be paying a tenner for the console each month over 24 months. Regardless of going for the full purchase or the All Access plan, it really is a bargain.

I do also wonder if they'll heavily tout XCloud. One of the features that is supposed to be coming for that is using your Xbox as the device to stream to. Effectively, if they achieve that for the Series S, you could theoretically still play your next gen games in full 4k60fps only they'd be streamed to your Series S through XCloud giving you the best of both worlds. Again, it makes it a no brainer for those wanting the cheapest option with the potentially the most games.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Ganepark32

[Dcubed]

1 minute ago, Ganepark32 said:

My one concern that I have for the Series S is something that just popped into my head based on a rumour that was going round: that to keep the cost down Microsoft might consider selling the box without a controller in the package. While not a consumer friendly way to go about things, they'd then make money on the sale of controllers at launch with this thing if that's how they're going to go.

I highly doubt they'll go for that though because even with that low price, asking people to then trump up for a controller separately would instantly kill any good will because then it really isn't £249.99/$299/€299, its an extra £50/$50/€50 at least on top. But its one way to keep the console cheap at point of sale and gain some money back on it.

Looking at figures, the All Access montly cost for this on the UK is likely to be around the £21/£22 mark. Thats insane. Gamepass Ultimate is £10.99 a month so effectively you'd be paying a tenner for the console each month over 24 months. Regardless of going for the full purchase or the All Access plan, it really is a bargain.

I do also wonder if they'll heavily tout XCloud. One of the features that is supposed to be coming for that is using your Xbox as the device to stream to. Effectively, if they achieve that for the Series S, you could theoretically still play your next gen games in full 4k60fps only they'd be streamed to your Series S through XCloud giving you the best of both worlds. Again, it makes it a no brainer for those wanting the cheapest option with the potentially the most games.

If that turns out to be the case, it would actually be cheaper than buying the console outright lol.

Most likely it'll be £25 per month.

[Sheikah]

1 hour ago, Dcubed said:

They're still losing money on Game Pass.  And really, you'd have to be mad to not get Gamepass with this thing; it's (literally!) a steal.

Microsoft will be bleeding incredible amounts of money on this console; like original Xbox levels of money.  No doubt they will eventually raise the price of Game Pass (they will have to eventually, to make ANY sort of profit on it), but until then? They will be losing billions by doing this.

No doubt they're playing the long game here; they want to eventually be making Office 365 levels of profit on Game Pass, but they're gonna be bleeding like mad to get to that point.

Sony can't possibly match this pricing.  They couldn't survive this level of bleeding.

I was thinking this too, about how much they must be losing on each of these consoles. Also, they basically have raised the price of Game Pass now because they have discontinued the 12-month Xbox Live Gold cards. It used it be that you could buy a year's worth of Live Gold then convert it into Game Pass with a 1 dollar/pound promotion - which is almost certainly what a lot of people were doing.

I think you can still do that, but only if you have a redeemable 12 month card lying around. But once they're gone, they're gone.

I'm excited to see how Sony react now. Competition is a good thing!

[Map]

I imagine Microsoft are willing to take a hit on the Series S is because it is all digital, meaning you’re tied to the Xbox store for all you’re purchases where they get a much higher profit, around 30% I think. They will get the money back over the life of the console.

Sony will probably have a similar plan for their digital edition. Not as cheap as the Series S obviously.

[Ronnie]

Well thy've got an extra sale here for sure, I wasn't planning on getting a next gen Xbox but will definitely pick up an S now. Probably sell my One X for £150 and shell out an extra hundred for it.

[Dcubed]

33 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

I was thinking this too, about how much they must be losing on each of these consoles. Also, they basically have raised the price of Game Pass now because they have discontinued the 12-month Xbox Live Gold cards. It used it be that you could buy a year's worth of Live Gold then convert it into Game Pass with a 1 dollar/pound promotion - which is almost certainly what a lot of people were doing.

I think you can still do that, but only if you have a redeemable 12 month card lying around. But once they're gone, they're gone.

I'm excited to see how Sony react now. Competition is a good thing!

I literally just did this now lol! I can't believe I just got 3 years of Game Pass Ultimate for £120! Bonkers!

Never thought I'd see myself buying another Xbox console, but here we go lol! I get Gamepass for the PC too out of this, so I'm pretty happy!  

Edited September 8, 2020 by Dcubed

[Sheikah]

1 minute ago, Dcubed said:

I literally just did this now lol! I can't believe I just got 3 years of Game Pass Ultimate for £120! Bonkers!

Never thought I'd see myself buying another Xbox console, but here we go lol! I get Gamepass for the PC too out of this, so I'm pretty happy!  

Crazy isn't it. Makes you wonder how much money they must have lost on Game Pass so far with that promotion. Those 12-month Live Gold cards have also been sold at some crazy cheap prices over the last few years, too.

[Dcubed]

1 minute ago, Sheikah said:

Crazy isn't it. Makes you wonder how much money they must have lost on Game Pass so far with that promotion. Those 12-month Live Gold cards have also been sold at some crazy cheap prices over the last few years, too.

They've done similar things with their Office 365 subscriptions too.  I got like 3 years worth when I last bought an external HDD! Free Onedrive has been a life saver for me!

[Nicktendo]

Microsoft announce a great price for their console and people still prefer to talk about Sony. 

[S.C.G]

3 hours ago, Ashley said:

This naming convention is seriously confusing me.

Had to re-read a few times to spot the 'One' in the second console mentioned here.

It took me longer than I'd like to even type that out due to the bizarre naming conventions of the many boxes of 'X'

What I was asking though is something I thought I probably knew the answer to already, but I just wanted to be sure...

"Will my base mode Xbox One, be able to play Xbox Series X games?" (damnit, I wrote Xbox One Series X originally and had to edit that even)

I can see now, that the answer is a resounding "no" but, due to all this naming confusion, plus different SKU's, I thought I should at least ask.

3 hours ago, Dcubed said:

No, it's much more powerful than the Xbox One X.  It's the same system as the upcoming Series X, just that it's running games at a lower resolution (targetting 1440p instead of 4K-8K).  You still get all the other benefits of the Series X (much better CPU, SSD, suspending games etc); the only downside being that games are rendered at a lower resolution, you lose the disc drive and that you get a 512GB SSD in the box instead of 1TB (Oh no! The horror!).

It's also about 60% smaller than the Series X, which is very nice!

OK, it's just the extreme size difference which got me thinking... "that new console is around the same size as an Xbox One S... does that mean..." I can see now that it doesn't.

Although... I will still be able to play Halo Infinite on an Xbox One... so there's that, I suppose it will just be limited time cross-generational support.

I wonder what will happen when it comes to Indie games though? Surely there will be some which will still run on both?

Also, maybe certain games out now, will get even more of a boost, I can see that happening for games such as Streets of Rage 4 perhaps.

3 hours ago, Goron_3 said:

The Series S is much more powerful than the One X. At the very least, you're getting a 8X CPU boost and a 40x boost in memory speed (I think that's right). The only thing that is similar between the two machines is the GPU - they are roughly equal in terms of peak power however the Series S has a much more modern architecture.

The Series S is essentially a replacement for the current One S, and the Series X is a replacement for the One X, but the Series S is going to be capable of running games built for next gen. This is something that the current gen consoles could only dream off.

The issue with 4K is that it's incredible resource intensive due to the sheer number of pixels it's pushing. If they've got this right, the only difference between Microsoft's next gen consoles is that one pushes games at 4K and the other at 1080p. 

Hmm, so if I was in the market for a new Xbox, which I'm not currently, it might have made sense to go for the Xbox Series S... except not in my case, because I like physical games, but I do have a 1080p TV which I also wasn't planning on upgrading, so even if I was in the market for a new Xbox, it looks like I'd still be going to the Xbox Series X due to the fact it has a disc drive and better graphics, even downsampled to 1080p presumably?

At this point, there's nothing coming to the Xbox Series X which would make me want to buy...

*Rare just announces that new remoured Perfect Dark game*

Well, damn.

Edited September 8, 2020 by S.C.G

[Sheikah]

35 minutes ago, Nicktendo said:

Microsoft announce a great price for their console and people still prefer to talk about Sony. 

I think the bigger question here is WTF is going on with you forum theme lol.

[S.C.G]

2 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

I think the bigger question here is WTF is going on with you forum theme lol.

You mean, you're not using the Nintendo Switch Grey theme?

It's the only theme equivalent to a 'dark mode' which doesn't hurt my eyes, I thought lots of people used this theme.

Worth trying out, if you haven't used it before, you can change it at the very bottom of the page, at least on desktop.

[drahkon]

5 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

I think the bigger question here is WTF is going on with you forum theme lol.

Heh, I just changed it thanks to @Nicktendo. This is as close as we can get to a dark theme right now

Edit: And of course someone (in this case em effing @S.C.G. ) wrote kind of the same thing

Edited September 8, 2020 by drahkon

[Sheikah]

It's more the poor contrast of the blue text on the grey backround that was bothering me.

I'm using a laptop right now but I mostly use Tapatalk, which has a great dark mode.

 

For example:

Edited September 8, 2020 by Sheikah