#02 - N-Europe: Let's Talk Games (Super Mario Sunshine)

[Fused King]

Now then, without further ado, from a Wii controversy to a Game Cube controversy it's

 

 

Now I have yet to play this one, so I'm interested in the opinions on this one.

I have only seen it being played a few times when I was younger, and from what I recall it looked pretty damn awesome!

 

Remember now:

 

Grade 0/100

+

A tagline

 

---------------------------

 

Average Score: 89/100

 

I guess this reflects people's comments of the game despite not everyone giving a grade.

 

Memorable Quotes:

 

I hope this game gets HD treatment so people realise that it's a fantastic game, albeit not the successor to SM64 that some were hoping.

This is a game that I found myself terrible disappointed in when I first played it when it came out, but on subsequent playthroughs have come to appreciate it much moreso.

Some black spots on the Banana don't stop it from tasting great otherwise

I fucking adore this game. The naysayers need to back off or I'll squirt them right in the face with my darling FLUDD

Younger me was also seriously impressed with the cutscenes and voice acting, but I know I'll loathe it if I go back and replay the game now.

People moan about 'gimmicks' like the Fludd but then also moan about Mario games being too silmilar. Mario Sunshine was about as far a departure from the usual Mario platformer as it gets.

A happy evolution if not a revolution in Mario.

The voice acting was absolutely terrible for the game. A lot of people use this as an excuse as to why Mario doesn't need a story or voice actors. Personally, I think it would be fine if they wrote a decent story and got some decent voice actors to flesh out the characters. Ratchet and Clank & Jak and Daxter managed to pull it off, so i'm sure Mario could if they actually tried.

Overall, I feel Super Mario Sunshine is entirely indicative of the GameCube itself and much of its other software - massively underrated, lovingly crafted and the peak of Nintendo in recent times.

 

3D Mario has never climbed higher, before or since.

I

Platformers have often been blasted for taking us through the typical forest, snow, ice and desert levels over the years so I admire this game for trying something different in creating a theme for the entire game. Having said that, I personally missed the diversity and have always been a sucker for wintery levels in my games

Riding on Yoshi was even made more memorable because of the ability to projectile vomit fruit juice, which in writing sounds disgusting but in a Nintendo game it somehow becomes magical.

 

Verdict: Any game which lets you make the main character do a 'seal' impression by repeatedly jumping while belly-sliding deserves a high rating in my books.

Just putting this here, from the SS thread, so that it doesn't get misplaced.

 

 

 

-----------------------

 

And now, for my opinion on Super Mario Sunshine.

 

	Audio

 

This was my second ever Gamecube game. Super Mario 64 had quickly become one of my favourite games of all time, and I was really looking forward to Sunshine. What I played wasn't exactly what I expected, but I had plenty of fun with it.

 

After that, I would occasionally (re)play a few levels of this, and complete whatever was left, but I never did a full blown, pondered replay. However, the Game Grumps played this quite recently (visiting most of the levels along the way), and I got to re-experience everything indirectly.

 

First things first: the control is marvellous. Mario controls like a dream, FLUDD or not (belly flop, flop, flop!). The FLUDD itself is also incredibly responsive (and a clever use of the analogue triggers). Using it never feels like a chore, even when what you're doing is, literally, the chore of cleaning someone else's crap (belly sliiiiiiiiiide!)

 

The graphics look amazing. I didn't really appreciate them at the time, but I later came to appreciate the subtle cel shading, the good use of colour, the small details in certain levels (like the sandbird's dripping sand) and, most of all, that gorgeous, gorgeous water. I recall developers at the time saying they wanted to do water like Sunshine did, and I have to agree. It looks AND feels great.

 

Those two aspects are at their strongest with the secret levels. They're amazing, most of them, both the ones that use FLUDD and the ones that don't. I already mentioned the sandbird, but remember the pachinko/pinball machine or the one where you had to jump a huge distance using the Turbo? Great stuff.

And confess it, that music has to be the best ever rendition of the Mario theme. That's saying a lot.

 

The normal levels aren't too bad, either. Some fun, interesting missions there (like the one where you're FLUDD-less in a level filled with lava-goop, the Manta Ray boss, the Eel Dentist mission, Blooper Surfing, etc.). Sure, some of them were a tad hard or frustrating, but every platformer has such levels.

 

The summer theme is well made. It goes well with the water mechanics. I like how they still managed to make several levels out of it (Village, Marina Docks, Beach, Theme Park, Hotel, Cultural Ruins Site, Mountain).

 

	Audio

 

There were, however, some odd design choices with this game. The main levels are designed with an open world in mind (much like in Super Mario 64), but each mission is linear, with barely (if any) deviation from the goal they give you (you can't find shines out of order, for example). Maybe this is why the secret levels stick so much more in our mind, since they're so much more straightforward about what they are.

 

At this point, the Super Mario 64 comparison is inevitable. The above is the most significant difference, but there are other aspects that bother SM64 fans, like the lack of level diversity (no snow, no desert, and certainly no level like Tick Tock Clock), or the excessive amount of missions in a given level.

While I was like this back in the day, I now feel like this is an unfair criticism. Sunshine should be judged on its own merits, not on what its predecessor was.

 

And now, with the really bad: Blue Coins. I hated, hated these back in the day. Still do. I'm all for collectibles and stuff, but this is a perfect example on how not to do it. First, many of these were a nightmare to find (you know those dozens of windows at Ricco Harbor? One of them gives you a coin if you spray it. Why? Hell if I know!), which brings us to the second problem, no way of tracking which ones you already have. That last one is not always a problem, but there were 30 effing blue coins per level. Even with a FAQ, it took me forever to find them.

 

Cutscenes! Plot! This game had them. A silly plot, mind you, and all would be fine and dandy (bad voice acting included), but this is a serious issue: you can't skip cutscenes, and they're so boring! So many times I've had someone over who wanted to try Sunshine but gave up before the end of that damn trial.

 

 

My verdict is that this is still a very fun game, oozing with Nintendo magic. All of its flaws seem to fade away when you're swimming in gorgeous water, or spinning around in place, or running those excellent obstacle courses. It's a shame it needs to live in the shadow of Mario 64

 

8.5/10

 

(And now, to read the other posts)

Edited January 26, 2014 by Fused King

[Rob3008]

People were quick to criticise Sunshine at the time but it was quite brave for Nintendo to take the series in such a different direction with the introduction of FLUDD. They could so easily have just released Mario 64.2

 

I remember this as a beautiful game, but the dodgy camera and those evil puzzles made it incredibly frustrating. It seems odd that Nintendo haven't tried FLUDD it in any other Mario game since, even as a bonus level.

[ReZourceman]

Amazing game. Totally undeserving of the flack it gets. FLUDD is fun to use, i do not care if it makes it easier. The upgrades are fun as hell. It was and is a beautiful design.

[Happenstance]

Ive never really liked the 3D Mario games but Sunshine was probably the one I enjoyed the most. Looked a lot nicer than 64 and if I remember right I felt it controlled better as well.

[Dog-amoto]

I remember the camera getting a load of flack at the time, but it was better than Mario 64's, which is really awful. But seeing as that was the first proper 3D platformer and how good it was, it can be forgiven...

[Cube]

I tried to like it, but the FLUDD just ruined the fluidity of Mario's motion from Super Mario 64, so I didn't get on with the gameplay at all. There was also a shortage of levels, and they weren't as varied as they could have been. One thing that was cool was being able to see the different levels from each other.

 

The visuals were very nice - especially the water.

[Goron_3]

Amazing game. Totally undeserving of the flack it gets. FLUDD is fun to use, i do not care if it makes it easier. The upgrades are fun as hell. It was and is a beautiful design.

 

I agree with this 100%.

 

The only things I didn't like about the game were:

1. The final boss was terrible.

2. TOO MANY BLUE COINS!!!

 

But yeah, the graphics were fantastic and Mario felt amazing to control, unlike some of the recent Mario games including 3D World where he doesn't quite feel as natural. I also loved that this game was difficult...there were a couple of shines that were so difficult to get.

 

I hope this game gets HD treatment so people realise that it's a fantastic game, albeit not the successor to SM64 that some were hoping.

[Pestneb]

I got it early, returned it within a week, (couldn't do that these days!). I hated it. Then at christmas... it came back to me! I pretended to like it, then played it a bit.... it felt like a new game. I enjoyed it.... I never bothered with all the blue coins, but I play it occassionally, even now, it's still enjoyable. Not really sure why I didn't enjoy it on my first time round.

[Dcubed]

This is a game that I found myself terrible disappointed in when I first played it when it came out, but on subsequent playthroughs have come to appreciate it much moreso.

 

I felt that it seemed rushed and unfinished in places (and I still do) and I still feel that the Hotel Delfino level is still probably the worst "world" in the entire Mario series. That being said though, the game simply feels great to play; moving around and jumping is a true joy, most of the shines are fun to earn and most of the levels are well designed.

 

Despite some bumps along the way (and too many heavy handed story cutscenes that do get in the way) and that dreaded blue coin hunt (which I will NEVER complete again!), I still think that it's a great game; ugly enemy character designs, horrible Bowser voice, crappy final boss battle and all. Some black spots on the Banana don't stop it from tasting great otherwise

 

And what other mainline Mario game lets you kick a durian around like a football, none! That's how many

[Happenstance]

I hope this game gets HD treatment so people realise that it's a fantastic game, albeit not the successor to SM64 that some were hoping.

 

Hmmm. Obviously I couldnt play a Wii U version but if it came out for 3DS I might play it.

[Jimbob]

It's not one of the best Mario games, that title goes to Galaxy. Fludd to me felt out of place for Mario, more of a add-on to the game. Luigi's Mansion had a E-Gladd hoover, so Mario had a water gun as it were. The attachments were decent enough which made sections of the game more interesting.

 

Shines were enjoyable to collect, but the Blue coins were a pain in the backside to get. Never did collect them all, and will never. Levels were interesting, but nothing compared to what 64 and Galaxy offered us.

[Agent Gibbs]

One of the better Mario games and really undeserving of the criticism it gets, i've been replaying it on dolphin recently and its an awesome game

I'd really love a HD version on WiiU

[Goron_3]

One of the better Mario games and really undeserving of the criticism it gets, i've been replaying it on dolphin recently and its an awesome game

I'd really love a HD version on WiiU

 

Out of interest, what controller do you use to play it on Dolphin? Is it difficult to use FLUDD (given that it was built around the GC's analogue L+R buttons?).

[Agent Gibbs]

Out of interest, what controller do you use to play it on Dolphin? Is it difficult to use FLUDD (given that it was built around the GC's analogue L+R buttons?).

 

I've tried a few, i had a wiimote with classic controller set up originally, but without analogue shoulders it was a pain in the arse to use, so i resort to a xbox 360 pad because it has analogue triggers, it works well enough, the best option would be to buy a gamecube to usb adapter and use a gamecube pad

 

when not using a analogue controller though i just set up the full analogue pulls to another button, or move controls round that weren't essential to the D-pad....but its far from ideal

[Pestneb]

One of the better Mario games and really undeserving of the criticism it gets, i've been replaying it on dolphin recently and its an awesome game

I'd really love a HD version on WiiU

 

Please excuse my ignorance, but dolphin?

[Agent Gibbs]

Please excuse my ignorance, but dolphin?

 

The dolphin emulator for PC, emulates Wii and Gamecube games, whilst allowing for upresing the games to a better quality, anti aliasing etc etc

 

http://www.dolphin-emulator.com/

[Josh64]

I'll come back on here on my laptop properly tomorrow but for now...

 

 

I fucking adore this game. The naysayers need to back off or I'll squirt them right in the face with my darling FLUDD

 

 

 

 

And of course, where would we be without creepy bowser jr?

[Guy]

I imported a Japanese copy of Sunshine (my first ever eBay purchase, postal orders and everything) and the experience remains a pretty fond memory for me. It set up the awesome sub-space style platfoming levels that kind of inspired later 3D Mario entries and FLUDD was an extremely interesting concept that helped set the game apart from other 3D Marios. Annoying way of saying "MAWIO" though.

 

Younger me was also seriously impressed with the cutscenes and voice acting, but I know I'll loathe it if I go back and replay the game now. Was this the first Toadsworth game? He was such a fussy bastard. On the topic of audio, the music was also pretty cool and the hub music is one of the most catchy Mario tunes in existence. Just try not to whistle along.

 

The game does have problems though. There's very little variety and the lack of Mushroom Kingdom familiarity hurts it to the point where the usual enemies and references felt shoehorned in. I'd actually say it could have starred a bunch of new characters and probably wouldn't have suffered at all. Yoshi was also criminally wasted - he vomits paint or something, right? That's not Yoshi, it's just weird. Didn't he also explode into paint if you didn't do something often enough? Augh.

 

Regardless, it was fun and controlled amazingly. My Japanese copy also had SHINE GET, which really stood out and was disappointingly omitted from the English releases.

 

90/100 for the Japanese copy and SHINE GET.

 

85/100 for the inferior English copy.

 

Edited January 20, 2014 by Guy

[pratty]

I think it's a very good game.

 

My main gripe with it though is the amount that some of the missions are the same for each area, like chasing the evil Mario, seemed a bit lazy. I'd like to have seen less of that more unique missions for each area. Other than that I really enjoyed it.

 

No problems with the Fludd for me, it worked great and was often fun, doing slides along the ground was ace.

 

People moan about 'gimmicks' like the Fludd but then also moan about Mario games being too silmilar. Mario Sunshine was about as far a departure from the usual Mario platformer as it gets.

[Shorty]

I feel like I loved Super Mario Sunshine, and yet I don't think I ever finished it and I'm not really sure why. I didn't really have any problems with FLUDD, other than it feeling like it separated you a little from a vanilla Mario experience (kind of like the train on Spirit Tracks). Controlling it was fine, although I do remember the hover making things a little easy and also breaking up the pace a bit. Maybe that contributed to never seeing it right through to the credits.

 

Visually it was a real treat and the maps were great. Sometimes SM64 great. It had far fewer of the floating-over-empty-sky kind of platforming levels which are probably my least favourite aspect about SM3DW compared to its predecessors.

 

It's certainly something I would get again on the VC or in a remake and see through to the end.

 

Edit: I don't feel like I can really give it a score since I didn't do it the justice of completing it, but if it helps the thread, 80/100

Edited January 21, 2014 by Shorty

[Sheikah]

I finished it and did absolutely everything in it. It was a really nice game, even if the hover utility made some aspects a little easy. That and great level design made the FLUDD-less levels (when it was robbed from you) my favourite of all Mario experiences.

 

Looking back, I liked this more than Galaxy, although Galaxy got much higher praise. Funny, that.

[Jamba]

There are lots of things about Sunshine that are fantastic. The visual pallet was brilliant and the rendering style in the cut scenes was lovely with all of the heat haze and DOF. There are tons of little bit of Mario magic all over this game and it rewards environment exploration and curiosity in a way that I miss in many modern games.

 

As a game I thought it was tons of fun however I'm not sure some of the levels were well placed in terms of the difficulty curve. The hotel level comes to mind particularly. I never felt comfortable with Yoshi's mechanic either as it felt like a bastardised version of FLUDD and not really very Yoshi like at all. I'd also agree with what

 

But honestly that's all small potatoes. My main gripe is a combo of setting and story. I never felt in a rush to save the Princess and I felt totally disconnected emotionally to what was going on. I get the impression that Shadow Mario was meant to be kinda scary but he wasn't and Peach was void of any charm this time around which made saving her... a chore. Add to this Delfino itself...

 

What can I say. I'm sure there was a discussion in the design department about whether they could or should introduce 2 completely new races to the Mario world. I would have loved for someone to say NO at this point. As much as I love the tropical and vibrantly colourful setting the two races lacked any real personality and were almost all faceless clones that just wibbled annoyingly. I compare that two irrepressible Luma from galaxy for instance and the loveable if misguided Toad patrol getting lost all of the time in their mushroom ship. There's no character that really stands out as memorable... even Baby Bowser is just kind of annoying.

 

But don't get me wrong, this is still a fantastic game.

 

88/100 - A happy evolution if not a revolution in Mario.

[Hero-of-Time]

I played through this back when it was released ( getting 100% done ) and never played through it since. Maybe I was burnt out after all those Blue Coins.

 

I actually tried again to play it last year but due to not being able to invert the horizontal camera I found it a nightmare to play. I guess over the years I became accustomed to being able to customize the camera controls to the way I like them, instead of just putting up with what I was given.

 

I honestly don't remember much about the levels or bosses. The thing that I do remember though is just how awesome the none FLUDD sections were. It was pure platforming perfection. I didn't have an issue with FLUDD, but I certainly enjoyed the parts without him much more.

 

I know a lot of people complain about the Blue Coins but I didn't mind them at all. It gave the game some legs and some of them were quite challenging to nab.

 

The voice acting was absolutely terrible for the game. A lot of people use this as an excuse as to why Mario doesn't need a story or voice actors. Personally, I think it would be fine if they wrote a decent story and got some decent voice actors to flesh out the characters. Ratchet and Clank & Jak and Daxter managed to pull it off, so i'm sure Mario could if they actually tried.

 

I wouldn't mind playing through it again via a HD remake/upgrade, just as long as they let me switch the camera to how i'm used to playing.

[Andyliini]

I have tried to play this game a few times, and tried to like it, as Super Mario 64 is one of the best games ever.

 

Sadly, this game is not. I just hate everything water-themed, and this game is full of water, with over-complicated controls and too much precise platforming. Blue Coins are hidden too well, and it's close to impossible to find them all without a guide.

 

I reached Pinna Park, but that place was too much for me. I don't like this game. At all. Thankfully Super Mario Galaxy was great again.

[Jimbob]

Forgot about the Fludd-less levels, they gave a welcome break and refreshed the game in parts. I'm in agreeance with the comment about the pointless "chase Shadow Mario" Shine missions. Chase him around the level, or race him or something or other. Something unique per level would have been nice.