Diageo Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 Doesn't tolerance insinuate that it's bad and you're putting up with it. Wouldn't acceptance be better?
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 Well yeah, I'm basing it on a vibe I get, having read his posts for 6 months. I don't have specific quotes to hand [realistically not going to trawl through threads]. I do genuinely feel that its similar to how it was natural for our grandparents' generation to be racist. In 50 years time, the next generations will look back and think "I don't understand why they were all so transphobic...". It's a little unfair of me to personally go at Diageo so hard, but ultimately, I think this discourse has been useful. The more it's talked about, and the more it's in the mind, the better the situation becomes -- realistically, if you come away from this and think "ah, now I'm just going to be more discriminatory against trans people" you're just evil. :p Again, I see no phobia in this. Only unfamiliarity. So I disagree about this being similar to '50s racism, which was obviously also born from unfamiliarity, but combined with lack of tolerance acceptance* to form phobia. But I agree wholeheartedly that the debate has come to an end. What needed to be said has been said, and we've all hopefully become a little wiser. *Diageo is right, acceptance is better in this case.
chairdriver Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 But like Goafer said, this might have taught people that is not OK to talk about trans people because they will have a fit about it and everyone will be uncomfortable. I can't really see how that's a thing. Since, like, people talk about trans people from-time-to-time/infrequently on this forum, and I've never ever noticed anything bad. Sure, if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all, but realistically, if you just have a normal non-phobic reaction to things, chances are no one will have any problem with what you're saying. Like... I'm the biggest Jiz fan there is. Bitch is the best. [/random, irrelevant point, but feels like she needs mentioned.] [Normal is the wrong word, but deal]
Goafer Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) I can't really see how that's a thing. Since, like, people talk about trans people from-time-to-time/infrequently on this forum, and I've never ever noticed anything bad. Every time an argument like this comes up, I just think "whatever, this isn't worth it" and puts me off learning more about trans/whatever. Surely you can see how that isn't helping? It seems like every time trans is brought up, it ends in a huge argument, a heated debate or someone getting wound up. That isn't going to help anyone to understand/tolerate it more because people will associate it with arguments and not want to bother. I think the best thing people can do to help with understanding is show more of the people behind it. Rather than constantly going on about how "the man is getting us down" and all the depressing stuff no one wants to hear about, post an example of an interesting viewpoint/article from a trans/whatever. If people are always being told about the negative side of the issue, no one will want to pursue an interest in it because they will associate it with negativity. For example, I consider this a great song because it generally has a positive vibe and doesn't make a huge fuss about being gay: Edited May 3, 2011 by Goafer
heroicjanitor Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 Cross-dressers and transexuals are different people tbf. Cross-dressing is usually done on purpose just to get the reaction. He said it would be embarrassing to have a woman posing like that because she was posing in a weird way. As in people would laugh at it. It was only later that he mentioned he had previously thought it was a man dressed as a woman(partially done to annoy paj). Which would still make people laugh and cause him embarrassment anyway(in the way that people would focus on you and laugh. Not in the shame way, which I think you thought he meant.) It's like if I had this as my wallpaper It would be embarrassing in that people would laugh and take the piss for having it.
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 It's funny, the two last posts from Goafer and heroic reminds me of something I forgot to mention: The first time I felt I had a genuine, down to earth experience with a crossdresser was when I heard about one in Denmark called "Kjole-Ole" ("kjole" means dress, and Ole is a common male name in Denmark). He wasn't transsexual or homosexual, he didn't go out of his way to make a fuss about it, and he didn't try to attract attention in any way. He was just a totally regular guy who liked to wear traditional women's clothing like dresses and high heels. It wasn't even him who had taken the initiative to go on television about it, if I recall correctly - it was just one of those funny little stories from around the country that a journalist has picked up in some way. That was the moment I realised they were just regular people.
Paj! Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 Cross-dressers and transexuals are different people tbf. Cross-dressing is usually done on purpose just to get the reaction. He said it would be embarrassing to have a woman posing like that because she was posing in a weird way. As in people would laugh at it. It was only later that he mentioned he had previously thought it was a man dressed as a woman(partially done to annoy paj). Which would still make people laugh and cause him embarrassment anyway(in the way that people would focus on you and laugh. Not in the shame way, which I think you thought he meant.) It's like if I had this as my wallpaper It would be embarrassing in that people would laugh and take the piss for having it. Yeah but that image is such a stunning thing. Fact is, it depends on the people around you. If they laugh at it/you, why, and is it ok? If they don't laugh at it/you, why not? If the people laughing are good people what does that mean? If they're cunts/idiots, what does that mean? / This goes into like imagery/symbols/semiotics. If I had a cartoon flowery backdrop nowadays people would just assume I was being ironic. How interesting is that? Uncool is cool. Nicki Minaj uses "Barbie" as her motif and bright pink, while rapping "If I had a dick, I would pull it out and piss on 'em. Shitted on 'em, yeah I just shitted on 'em - put your number 2's in the air if you shitted on 'em" and "I'm a bad bitch, I'm a cunt, and I kick that ho - punt" etc. etc. But that's a seperate topic.
The Peeps Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 Like... I'm the biggest Jiz fan there is. Bitch is the best. [/random, irrelevant point, but feels like she needs mentioned.] [Normal is the wrong word, but deal] I don't mean to detract from your meaningful debate, but I just love the idea of someone reading that who doesn't know the reference.
Emasher Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 It appears the Conservative Party of Canada have won a majority government. Goodbye online privacy.
MoogleViper Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 It appears the Conservative Party of Canada have won a majority government. Goodbye online privacy. What's that got to do with transsexuals? Oh wait sorry. It's just that the same old boring arguments have been repeated for so many posts that I thought this was a trans thread.
Happenstance Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 Wow, looks like I missed quite the overdramatic argument last night.
Retro_Link Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) Without giving my course any warning, the University IT Suite is closed for exams over the next 4 days!!! Apparently out course doesn't matter... I'm fucked... I need those computers to work from! FUCK YOU UNIVERSITY THAT I PAY FOR... FUCK YOU!!!! Edited May 3, 2011 by Retro_Link
drahkon Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 (edited) I don't mean to detract from your meaningful debate, but I just love the idea of someone reading that who doesn't know the reference. Like me. And I'm beyond words... The sun is shining, my girlfriend's on her way and I'm suffering from the worst headaches in years. the first two things are good things Edited May 3, 2011 by drahkon
EEVILMURRAY Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 It's like if I had this as my wallpaper It would be embarrassing in that people would laugh and take the piss for having it. How the fuck would you find that embarassing? It's got it all. I think the misinterpretation is what prople find embarassing. Having what you think is a hot girl then being told she was born a dude is something one may find a little uncomfortable. Wow, looks like I missed quite the overdramatic argument last night. Here's a breakdown: A] Someone said something. B] Chair got some sand in his vagina and kicked off. S'about it really.
chairdriver Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 Here's a breakdown: A] Someone said something. B] Chair got some sand in his vagina and kicked off. (I somewhat love, considering I don't like going to beaches because I have a genuine fear of sand getting in my orifices.)
mcj metroid Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 I'm sure you've heard of these "treasures" from Ireland before
heroicjanitor Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 How the fuck would you find that embarassing? It's got it all. That's the point, it's not embarrassing in a shameful way it is just out of the ordinary and would draw attention/ jokes.
EEVILMURRAY Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 That's the point, it's not embarrassing in a shameful way it is just out of the ordinary and would draw attention/ jokes. They'd just be jealous they didn't get the image of The Rock first.
nightwolf Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 Without giving my course any warning, the University IT Suite is closed for exams over the next 4 days!!! Apparently out course doesn't matter... I'm fucked... I need those computers to work from! FUCK YOU UNIVERSITY THAT I PAY FOR... FUCK YOU!!!! We're in much the same boat at sheffield, but for different reasons. Our tutors, our full-time ones, the ones we pay to help and teach us, have all disappeared, not one of them is responding to emails, one even saying he wouldn't be back til the 16th, our deadline is friday. I'm quite like in I don't need any help from tutors right now or at all, but there's quite a lot of students who have been waiting weeks for one simple emailed reply and we've not seen anyone since christmas. Not to mention our end of year show, is supposed to be the 10th june, but nobody has been informed, so people have booked holidays and are planning on going away etc. Such a mess. Today I planned to get up at 7am to finish my uni work, slept right through from 3am til 11am. Dammit.
Retro_Link Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 We're in much the same boat at sheffield, but for different reasons. Our tutors, our full-time ones, the ones we pay to help and teach us, have all disappeared, not one of them is responding to emails, one even saying he wouldn't be back til the 16th, our deadline is friday. I'm quite like in I don't need any help from tutors right now or at all, but there's quite a lot of students who have been waiting weeks for one simple emailed reply and we've not seen anyone since christmas. Not to mention our end of year show, is supposed to be the 10th june, but nobody has been informed, so people have booked holidays and are planning on going away etc. Such a mess. Today I planned to get up at 7am to finish my uni work, slept right through from 3am til 11am. Dammit. Yeah I got in to Uni for 9.00, only to find closure! Bastards! Yeah tutors can be absolute jokes at times. I hate it how as soon as holidays start that's it as far as they're concerned! They won't even look at their emails until the Monday back, or in this case Tuesday. It's their job to be their to help students during the academic year... they get the whole summer off!
My Buttons are Magic! Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 So.. I met "the boy" (the guy that everyone stopped speakin to me about) for lunch yesterday.. and ran into a bunch of my (now ex) friends in subway awkward as fuck but haha.... made me LOL
Murr Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 My place of employment apparently really cannot function without me it seems. I had the 3 days off between bank holiday thus having 11 days without work, the days before the time off I clocked up ridiculous amounts of hours overtime testing our new database environment, and had instances of said database installed and working live on select workstations, Now... the team decided they were going to set the rest of the business to this live database on the time that I had off, and were working night shifts to do this to not affect the business. My first day back (which I started at 7am) and they've informed me that they failed the installations across the business, and have asked if I can work tonight (albeit I've asked for an extortionate rate ) from 9pm till when ever the job is done. I've turned down the 9pm start as I have a pro 5 game on at 8:15, and don't fancy coming to work in sweaty football attire much, but have accepted from 10pm till when ever the job is done. My first day back in the office consists of a 7am-5pm shift followed by a 10pm - ????am shift. Glad to be back. One plus point, another £200 won off the work incentive, takes my winnings to £600 now
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted May 3, 2011 Posted May 3, 2011 We're in much the same boat at sheffield, but for different reasons. Our tutors, our full-time ones, the ones we pay to help and teach us, have all disappeared, not one of them is responding to emails, one even saying he wouldn't be back til the 16th, our deadline is friday. I'm quite like in I don't need any help from tutors right now or at all, but there's quite a lot of students who have been waiting weeks for one simple emailed reply and we've not seen anyone since christmas. Not to mention our end of year show, is supposed to be the 10th june, but nobody has been informed, so people have booked holidays and are planning on going away etc. Such a mess. Today I planned to get up at 7am to finish my uni work, slept right through from 3am til 11am. Dammit. I don't get you people's universities. How the fuck can tutors do these things? I certainly hope it's not as bad where I'm going!
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