Super Mario 3D All-Stars (RIP)

[Nicktendo]

11 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

I'm not really sure. All I know is that it felt really weird in compared to modern games. It's as if you can't just turn on the fly and instead have to do a small circle. I fired up both Sunshine and Galaxy for a quick go and they feel much better. They are so fluid and smooth whereas 64 feels weighty in comparison.

As for 100% in Sunshine? Of course.  

This really, really pissed me off. I died so many times because of this. 

When I actually started playing Sunshine it felt SO much better. Like an actual modern game. The difference is so stark. Honestly, I had a much, much better time with Sunshine overall. It still holds up despite a few niggles that aren't really present in modern games. I'm thinking quickly restarting failed challenges etc. But the game is great, spraying the path ahead and trying to slide for as long as possible is still tons o' fun. I got up to 104 shines, which is actually the most I've ever got, but I didn't fancy the blue coin challenges so ended up moving on to Galaxy.

Again, 60FPS is such a stark contrast with the previous games. It feels so silky smooth and looks absolutely gorgeous in HD. It's a shame the Wii hid a lot of what it could actually manage. Some of those textures up-res'd still look great by today's standards. 

I hated on this collection a lot before release, but after putting a good 50 hours in to it, it's easily sitting close to the top of my GOTY list. 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Nicktendo

[nekunando]

On 23/12/2020 at 3:31 PM, Hero-of-Time said:

Get him, @nekunando!

Even though the N64 is the greatest thing that ever graced this earth, the control stick has a lifespan.. but it's great in the beginning

Even after years of Mario Party abuse, it's probably still more reliable than the Joy-Con stick..

[Ike]

Pretty sure the N64 version controls were like that because I hated the game because of them.

The first time I gave the game a proper shake was the DS version. Which had a worse controller.

[Hero-of-Time]

Yeah, Galaxy looks gorgeous. It really is a testament to the quality of the artstyle when it looks this good by simply increasing the resolution. I played it for an hour or so in handheld mode and it felt great.

I still have issues with the collection. The presentation of the games and menus is absolutely abysmal. It's as if they just got a new starter/intern to knock something up in a day. Also, it's not really a celebration of the anniversary at all. They could have had art work, interviews, commercials and other bits and bobs in this package but this would have required actual effort.  

I look at collections like this, both past and present, and a lot of them are far superior products.

To this day I think Kingdom Hearts 1.5 & 2.5 Remix is the heights that other developers need to reach when making these types of collections. Kingdom Hearts: Final Mix, Kingdom Hearts II: Final Mix and Kingdom Hearts: Re Chain of Memories are versions of the games that were never released over here. Birth by Sleep was trapped on the PSP and so was ported to this collection. All of the games were upscaled and ran at 60fps. They also added two lengthy movies that covered the two DS games. The best part? It was released for £35. 

[Nicktendo]

18 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Yeah, Galaxy looks gorgeous. It really is a testament to the quality of the artstyle when it looks this good by simply increasing the resolution. I played it for an hour or so in handheld mode and it felt great.

I still have issues with the collection. The presentation of the games and menus is absolutely abysmal. It's as if they just got a new starter/intern to knock something up in a day. Also, it's not really a celebration of the anniversary at all. They could have had art work, interviews, commercials and other bits and bobs in this package but this would have required actual effort.  

I look at collections like this, both past and present, and a lot of them are far superior products.

To this day I think Kingdom Hearts 1.5 & 2.5 Remix is the heights that other developers need to reach when making these types of collections. Kingdom Hearts: Final Mix, Kingdom Hearts II: Final Mix and Kingdom Hearts: Re Chain of Memories are versions of the games that were never released over here. Birth by Sleep was trapped on the PSP and so was ported to this collection. All of the games were upscaled and ran at 60fps. They also added two lengthy movies that covered the two DS games. The best part? It was released for £35. 

Yeah I'm with you there. From a "collection" standpoint it's weak sauce. The soundtracks were nice, but the menus are shite.

I compare it to some of the stuff Konami and Capcom have put out over the past few years and it's bordering on embarassing. That said, I'm glad I got to experience these great games again looking nice on the "big telly" 

[Glen-i]

40 minutes ago, nekunando said:

Even though the N64 is the greatest thing that ever graced this earth, the control stick has a lifespan.. but it's great in the beginning

Even after years of Mario Party abuse, it's probably still more reliable than the Joy-Con stick..

Right, I'm gonna just go ahead and rate all of the Nintendo Control Sticks from worst to best. Think of it as my early Christmas present to you all.

Spoiler

Joy-Con - Yeah, this is indisputable. Utter garbage quality even if not going by the general high quality Ninty has. It's not a matter of if it breaks, it's a matter of when it breaks and that when is coming sooner than is acceptable.

3DS Circle Pad - It's an analogue movement input device, it counts. I've also experienced drift on 2 out of 3 of my 3DS consoles, not to the extreme that Joy-Cons have. They just can't cope with the bonkers amount of time I spend moving around in RPG's.

N64 - Absolutely deserves respect for cementing the method of 3D movement, but it's uncomfortable to keep your thumb on for long periods of time and is also not as durable as other sticks. Bonus point for having the Octagonal gate. Every stick needs an Octagonal gate.

WiiU - I'm counting the Gamepad and the Pro Controller together because they're effectively the same anyway. It's fine, but it lacks the Octagonal gate.

Switch Pro Controller - Basically the WiiU stick, but more comfortable. That's about it.

Wii Nunchuk/Classic Controller - It's effectively the same as the upcoming best Ninty stick, albeit a bit smaller, which is why it misses out on the top spot.

Gamecube - Absolute Sticky Perfection! Octagonal Gate? Check. Nice and big? Check. Incredibly durable? Super check! I don't know why anyone would move away from this because it hasn't been topped since! Thousands of hours in Smash Bros and it still works beautifully! Joy-Cons are just embarrassing compared to this.

 

[darksnowman]

1 hour ago, Hero-of-Time said:

I'm not really sure. All I know is that it felt really weird in compared to modern games. It's as if you can't just turn on the fly and instead have to do a small circle. I fired up both Sunshine and Galaxy for a quick go and they feel much better. They are so fluid and smooth whereas 64 feels weighty in comparison.

As for 100% in Sunshine? Of course.  

Sounds like Mario's turning circle just hasn't aged as well as I'd like to remember, then! Turning him when shell-surfing must have been a bit of a struggle.

Even outside the blue coins, some of the stars in Sunshine are stinkers. Best of luck with that endeavour!

1 hour ago, Ike said:

Pretty sure the N64 version controls were like that because I hated the game because of them.

Self-bannable offense to be fair...!

[Ike]

5 minutes ago, darksnowman said:

Self-bannable offense to be fair...!

Past tense, I like it now. 

[Mr-Paul]

Got this as a Christmas gift. I don't remember Sunshine being so difficult, or maybe I've just got bad at Mario games 😂 I remember the non-FLUDD levels being a challenge before, but some of the difficulty of them feels cheap/unfair. The challenging levels of a similar style in the Galaxies/3D Land etc. feel a lot more refined. I miss the long jump! And there doesn't seem to be many 1-Ups around compared to other games. 

Still quite enjoying it, but remembering why Sunshine is regarded as one of the lesser 3D Marios. 

[Beast]

I got this for Christmas. I'm in love with Super Mario 64 again. It brought me back to Christmas Day as a kid when I first got my N64!

[Hero-of-Time]

I've been tackling Mario Galaxy in between other games. The credits have rolled and 120 stars nabbed.

I tried playing the game with the Pro Controller but the motion controlled stuff just wasn't great to use. After that I pretty much played exclusively in handheld mode and it was a much better experience. Collecting the star bits with the touch screen was super easy and quick. It was much better than using the Wiimote. 

The game looks lovely in HD. It's a credit to Nintendo and the style they used that a game that is 10+ years old can look this good with a resolution bump. It reminds me just how good DS/3DS games can look when put through a HD emulator.

I did have an issue with the Purple Comet stars. I don't mind the ones where you have to grab all 100 coins in a time limit but the ones where you have to go around the stage and find them all are VERY tedious. The game isn't challenging and so walking around  and looking for 100 scattered coins is very boring. Kinda feels like these were filler stars just to get it to a total of 120.

Still, besides this issue, I enjoyed playing through the game again. I think I prefer this version over the Wii one. The controls are better and the visuals no longer have jaggies.

[darksnowman]

I never expected Galaxy to work well without the Wiimote pointer, or even better as you say, so it's great to hear you had a positive experience. Did you happen to notice if they modified the positions of the twinkling stars on the title screen?

Next up, bring on your report of Sunshine without the Gamecube controllers analogue shoulder buttons!

[Glen-i]

3 minutes ago, darksnowman said:

Did you happen to notice if they modified the positions of the twinkling stars on the title screen?

They didn't, it still happens to be on those letters.

[Hero-of-Time]

7 minutes ago, darksnowman said:

Next up, bring on your report of Sunshine without the Gamecube controllers analogue shoulder buttons!

I'll be playing that with the GameCube controller. The only reason I jumped to Galaxy first was because I can't be bothered to go up the attic and fish out the adapter. 

[BowserBasher]

On 31/12/2020 at 3:59 PM, Hero-of-Time said:

I tried playing the game with the Pro Controller but the motion controlled stuff just wasn't great to use. After that I pretty much played exclusively in handheld mode and it was a much better experience. Collecting the star bits with the touch screen was super easy and quick. It was much better than using the Wiimote.

I ended up playing with the joycons detached and found it just as intuitive as when I played it on the Wii with the Wiimote. Yeah you have to press whatever shoulder button recentered the pointer, but after a while I didn’t have issues with that. 
As you said, amazing looking game and it looks better than it did when it was released and that’s saying something. 

[Josh64]

I played Mario 64 in level order to get all 120 stars and it was so much fun, I really felt like a kid again. I've played it a lot over the years but not got the full 120 since my first N64 copy, so while some of the stars like the red coins in the wiggler room of Tiny Huge Island were mega frustrating, or getting 100 coins on Tick-Tock Clock, it felt great when I actually managed it.

One thing people used to complain about which I disagreed with at the time was the camera, I always said as long as you keep controlling the camera it's fine, and that it's only a problem if you don't reposition it with the C buttons - I was WRONG. The camera is an absolute nightmare, it almost always buzzes and refuses to move where you ask it to lol. The controls also don't feel as good, as some of the above posts have mentioned, that turning circle seems way off, but playing on an N64 still feels fine and as though you have more control, so I can only imagine that perhaps it's the different design of the weird old n64 stick that doesn't translate well to modern controllers.

 

I'm onto Sunshine now and playing that in order too. It's a lot slower paced but I'm really enjoying it, the bigger worlds and collecting blue coins gives me big Banjo/Yooka Laylee vibes which I love. I also can't believe just how incredible it looks!! It really pops in 1080p and everything is so vivid, I'm really diggin' the sunny vibes. I'm impressed they upscaled or at least put a filter on the cutscenes too.

So far most of the shines have been enjoyable, there's only one which I have absolutely hated so far, Shine 8 in Ricco Harbour where you have to get a durian fruit to hatch Yoshi and then traverse floating fish. For one, when you fall it takes AGES to get back up, two the fruit machine is a pain to navigate and slowly pops out random fruit until you get the right one, three the durian that Yoshi needs gets absolutely PUNTED by Mario for bloody miles from the lightest touch (no other fruit in the game does this!!), four I didn't realise for ages that Yoshi needs to do his projectile vomit juicing onto the fish to turn them into platforms so I was unsuccessfully trying to just bop off their heads for ages, five you have to eat a coconut half way through your fish vomit journey which isn't obvious at all because, six the different fruit creates different platforms and while the durian makes them go side to side, coconut makes them go up in the air. Okay so where do they tell you this, how was I to know this and who THOUGHT of this?! If it wasn't for YouTube I'd have never known, it's no wonder I didn't get all the Shines back in the day lol.

It has been digging up a lot of memories, it's a genuinely nostalgic game, I think because I only ever had it for the GameCube so haven't been able to play it since 2005ish whereas Mario64 has been downloaded on my Wii and WiiU, as well as a regular play in my DS days. I'm gonna stick to doing the shines in order and hopefully get the full amount, but we'll see whether my enjoyment of the blue coins wanes or not. 

And finally just gotta say, Isle Delfino is SO FUN, I love it. Probably my second favourite hub world ever after Showdown Town in Banjo Nuts n Bolts. 

 

EDIT: That level

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zf_AdG01YVY

Edited February 28, 2021 by Josh64

[Josh64]

I completed Sunshine a few days ago with around 70 Shine Sprites! Leading up to it I had a GREAT time on Sirena Beach, first with the epic manta ray squirt off and then a really fun jaunt through the hotel finding secret entrances to each room, like jumping through mirrors or squirting away posters and finally making it to the vents in the ceiling. I used to hate that stage so I was kind of dreading it but I had a really great time. I love the basement casino too and also had NO IDEA it shares music with the Luigi minigames in Super Mario 64 DS, I guess it just shows how much 64 has always stayed with me while this really has been a nostalgia-ridden adventure. 

All of the boss battles have been great fun, Wiggler on the beach, Mecha Bowser JR in the theme park, the aforementioned Manta, and while it was a repeat I liked revisiting the big Blooper in Noki Bay. Speaking of Noki Bay, as a flip side to Sirena Beach I loved this stage as a kid but found it so tedious and kinda shit now lol. I liked the 'special' events like swimming in the bottle and cleaning the Eels teeth but man, the stage itself is pretty trash, still looks lovely though. 

Lowlights then, these cutscenes are so lame but I will accept they were great at the time and I loved them as a kid. Bowser Jr having a voice doesn't phase me weirdly but Bowser sounds so strange, he definitely benefits from just growling these days. Also Corona Mountain, what's with that?! That has to be one of the shortest, easiest, lamest and most underwhelming final levels to almost any platformer ever lol. Just jump across a few spiked platforms, travel by boat to land and boom, final boss! Final boss fight was also laughably easy but those water effects in the bath were top notch. I don't know how they pulled that off but it was like 2002 Sea of Thieves up in there! Especially the way Peach was bobbing up and down on her duck.

 

Anyway, I'm on my blue coin journey now, I had an average of 20-25 per level while each level has a total of 30 so I have been looking at guides the last day or so and got myself up to 231, so only 9 left! I'm hoping I can bang them out today. I think the game would have benefitted greatly by having only 20 per level as most of them are fun to find or have cool tasks attached to them, like attacking and eating a beehive with Yoshi or eating blue butterflies but the last 10 or so in each level are kinda bullshit. Squirt this one random torch for a blue coin to come out, squirt this totally random patch of sand for a blue coin, squirt this single cupboard in the entire hotel. Like wtf? It would honestly take me years of constant play to find them all without a guide. I don't know much about the development of Sunshine unlike the countless interviews I've read about 64 but my guess is that this had to be rushed out as you can kinda see where the intentional blue coin tasks were and where they kinda had to just shove them in to make up the numbers. 

 

A boat appears when you defeat Bowser which takes you back to the start of the game - I had a blast revisiting the airstrip post game and blasting through the water collecting 100 coins. Oh, also also, THE FLOOD near the end of the game! That was really great and somewhat makes up for how shitty Corona Mountain is. Though I was pretty concerned about one of the Piantas, he was stuck on one of the outer islands of Isle Delfino and told me he'd been there for 3 years, I thought it was kinda hilarious so posted it on my Twitter days ago. While the flood was going on I went over to that island to see how he was as most Piantas were around where they usually are but on nearby rooftops instead or swimming with rubber donuts... There was a floating log above where he usually sits on the island but he was nowhere to be seen. After the flood he isn't on the island either. I can only assume he was a victim to the sea.

 

Here he was days before I knew of his terrible fate:

https://twitter.com/HenshinJosh/status/1365790343233343490?s=20

 

 

 

 

[Nicktendo]

22 minutes ago, Josh64 said:

I completed Sunshine a few days ago with around 70 Shine Sprites! Leading up to it I had a GREAT time on Sirena Beach, first with the epic manta ray squirt off and then a really fun jaunt through the hotel finding secret entrances to each room, like jumping through mirrors or squirting away posters and finally making it to the vents in the ceiling. I used to hate that stage so I was kind of dreading it but I had a really great time. I love the basement casino too and also had NO IDEA it shares music with the Luigi minigames in Super Mario 64 DS, I guess it just shows how much 64 has always stayed with me while this really has been a nostalgia-ridden adventure. 

All of the boss battles have been great fun, Wiggler on the beach, Mecha Bowser JR in the theme park, the aforementioned Manta, and while it was a repeat I liked revisiting the big Blooper in Noki Bay. Speaking of Noki Bay, as a flip side to Sirena Beach I loved this stage as a kid but found it so tedious and kinda shit now lol. I liked the 'special' events like swimming in the bottle and cleaning the Eels teeth but man, the stage itself is pretty trash, still looks lovely though. 

Lowlights then, these cutscenes are so lame but I will accept they were great at the time and I loved them as a kid. Bowser Jr having a voice doesn't phase me weirdly but Bowser sounds so strange, he definitely benefits from just growling these days. Also Corona Mountain, what's with that?! That has to be one of the shortest, easiest, lamest and most underwhelming final levels to almost any platformer ever lol. Just jump across a few spiked platforms, travel by boat to land and boom, final boss! Final boss fight was also laughably easy but those water effects in the bath were top notch. I don't know how they pulled that off but it was like 2002 Sea of Thieves up in there! Especially the way Peach was bobbing up and down on her duck.

 

Anyway, I'm on my blue coin journey now, I had an average of 20-25 per level while each level has a total of 30 so I have been looking at guides the last day or so and got myself up to 231, so only 9 left! I'm hoping I can bang them out today. I think the game would have benefitted greatly by having only 20 per level as most of them are fun to find or have cool tasks attached to them, like attacking and eating a beehive with Yoshi or eating blue butterflies but the last 10 or so in each level are kinda bullshit. Squirt this one random torch for a blue coin to come out, squirt this totally random patch of sand for a blue coin, squirt this single cupboard in the entire hotel. Like wtf? It would honestly take me years of constant play to find them all without a guide. I don't know much about the development of Sunshine unlike the countless interviews I've read about 64 but my guess is that this had to be rushed out as you can kinda see where the intentional blue coin tasks were and where they kinda had to just shove them in to make up the numbers. 

 

A boat appears when you defeat Bowser which takes you back to the start of the game - I had a blast revisiting the airstrip post game and blasting through the water collecting 100 coins. Oh, also also, THE FLOOD near the end of the game! That was really great and somewhat makes up for how shitty Corona Mountain is. Though I was pretty concerned about one of the Piantas, he was stuck on one of the outer islands of Isle Delfino and told me he'd been there for 3 years, I thought it was kinda hilarious so posted it on my Twitter days ago. While the flood was going on I went over to that island to see how he was as most Piantas were around where they usually are but on nearby rooftops instead or swimming with rubber donuts... There was a floating log above where he usually sits on the island but he was nowhere to be seen. After the flood he isn't on the island either. I can only assume he was a victim to the sea.

 

Here he was days before I knew of his terrible fate:

https://twitter.com/HenshinJosh/status/1365790343233343490?s=20

This was great to read. I also felt similar about the hotel / Noki Bay, but I still enjoyed the latter just for the scale of it. 

Really enjoyed my time with Sunshine too. I think it's my favourite of the three overall. 

[Josh64]

3 hours ago, Nicktendo said:

This was great to read. I also felt similar about the hotel / Noki Bay, but I still enjoyed the latter just for the scale of it. 

Really enjoyed my time with Sunshine too. I think it's my favourite of the three overall. 

yeah maybe I was too harsh on Noki, I was enjoying it initially for the pure platforming and scale as you said but the blue coins hidden in the walls really soured the level for me!

[Glen-i]

4 hours ago, Josh64 said:

yeah maybe I was too harsh on Noki, I was enjoying it initially for the pure platforming and scale as you said but the blue coins hidden in the walls really soured the level for me!

This is the main reason I hate Noki Bay as well. It's a nightmare.

[Josh64]

I just got 120 stars on Galaxy last night! The first 60 stars or so are fairly easy but I guess with the new wacky concept they had to ease you in slowly, I had a lot more fun on the latter 60! Music and graphics are still fantastic, it's a real shame Nintendo didn't go HD with the Wii. I haven't got that much more to say on Galaxy, mainly because I'm sure we're all really well-versed with Galaxy out of the 3 and it still feels pretty recent to me (despite being 14 lol).

Going back to Sunshine, I found this great interview from when it first released in Japan - Rolled up sleeves Mario was a compromise for Koizumi wanting a new outfit  At least he finally got his wish in Odyssey eh?

Sunshine Interview

Quote

TEZUKA: When Koizumi submitted the original idea, he asked if we could change Mario's clothing. At first, I took a rather conservative attitude and said, "He is not Mario without these clothes." But I also said, "You may let him wear short-sleeved shirts, though."

And I just KNEW that weird voice acting and cut scenes were a pressure of the time lol.

Quote

 if we choose not to include a movie sequence in a game, our competitors may claim that our system cannot support this kind of feature. That sort of thing could happen. [Laughter.] And perhaps no one would play Super Mario Sunshine. That would be a shame.

 

[Dcubed]

3 hours ago, Josh64 said:

I just got 120 stars on Galaxy last night! The first 60 stars or so are fairly easy but I guess with the new wacky concept they had to ease you in slowly, I had a lot more fun on the latter 60! Music and graphics are still fantastic, it's a real shame Nintendo didn't go HD with the Wii. I haven't got that much more to say on Galaxy, mainly because I'm sure we're all really well-versed with Galaxy out of the 3 and it still feels pretty recent to me (despite being 14 lol).

Going back to Sunshine, I found this great interview from when it first released in Japan - Rolled up sleeves Mario was a compromise for Koizumi wanting a new outfit  At least he finally got his wish in Odyssey eh?

Sunshine Interview

And I just KNEW that weird voice acting and cut scenes were a pressure of the time lol.

 

Very interesting reading that old interview again, thanks for sharing that!

You can really see how this was the turning point in Nintendo's history and how they really started to pivot away from the traditional industry mindset of appealing primarily to existing & experienced audiences.  You can see the mental anguish that Miyamoto is going through and how he regretted a lot of his choices with making Mario Sunshine bigger and more complicated, alienating lapsed players and non-gamers.

Quote

3D games are not for returning players, why did you start working on the same game system that was used with Super Mario 64?

MIYAMOTO: We are working on many different projects. We have shown the idea for Mario 128 before, which is headed in a different direction. But Super Mario Sunshine took this direction -- it is an authentic sequel to Super Mario 64. I regret this somewhat -- not because of the quality of Super Mario Sunshine, but rather because this Mario game may not attract players who are returning to gaming after some time.

Even as early as 2002, you can already see him start to pivot away from the classic industry mindset and see him start to turn towards the Blue Ocean that birthed the DS & Wii!

Edited March 16, 2021 by Dcubed

[Josh64]

How time flies eh? For those of you that are still interested, the game is only on sale until Wednesday, speaking of which:

Quote

WEEKLY SALES UP 276%, BUT MONSTER HUNTER RISE TOPS THE CHART [...]
[...] The platform holder has been actively promoting the imminent delisting of Mario 3D All-Stars, which jumped from No.9 on the previous week’s UK boxed software chart to No.2 for the week ended March 27.

https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/uk-super-mario-3d-all-stars-sales-rocket-ahead-of-the-game-being-pulled-from-sale/

 

EDIT: I haven't closely been keeping track of sales and stuff since the arse end of the WiiU era so it's insane to me to see 8 of the top 10 all-format charts are comprised of Switch games! 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Josh64

[Ronnie]

Yeah it's been a pretty regular occurrence that Switch games dominate all-format charts.

Though recently speaking there's barely been anything big to play on the other consoles for a few months now.

[Helmsly]

This game is getting an update so you can use the N64 controller on Mario 64:

 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Helmsly