EA and Star Wars leads to governments looking to get loot crates under control.

[Choze]

Perhaps the biggest controversy since the whole Xbox mess at the start of the generation. Several governments now recognise loot boxes as predatory. What made the difference was Battlefront 2 and it’s association with Star Wars.

EA’s pathetic PR response so far has been a disaster with them not doing enough at a snails pace. Not to mention a number of other games using loot boxes this end of year prior to Battlefront’s release. 

 

This is not new as mobile phones have also been subject to the same issues. But inviting governments to look into the bad practices of the industry isn’t such a bad idea anymore. Let’s be honest is anyone ever going to get close to unlocking everything in Overwatch(poster child)? With the slow trickle of content I don’t think it’s been a success at all there. Let’s also not let other companies off the hook. 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2017 by Choze

[Londragon]

Something does need to be done, it'll take time for the European Union to implement a law, but it can't come soon enough.  It'll certainly shake up the mobile phone game business, with the casual consumer probably left disgruntled at all the price hikes for the base game.

[Dcubed]

Great news! Any steps taken to clamp down on this predatory practice are a sight for very sore eyes.

 

And the industry has nobody to blame but themselves.  If the regulatory bodies, that they themselves established, refuse to do their job, then let the governments around the world do it for them.

 

Hopefully this will be a harsh lesson for the likes of EA, WB, Take 2, Activision-Blizzard And everyone involved in the mobile scene.

[drahkon]

1. Disney must be pissed at EA. The Star Wars brand is now being associated with shady practices in video games. Seeing it in headlines with "gambling", "dangerous for kids' mental health" in mainstream media isn't something you want to happen.
2. As I've mentioned before: With loot boxes kids are introduced to gambling and I absolutely despise this practice. Here's hoping something significant will come out of this.
3. It's the EU so it will probably take years
4. If loot boxes will be banned we can be sure to see more DLC like "Weapon Pack 1", "Emotes", "Skin Pack 1", etc. in the future. It's the "better" practice but still bad.

Edited November 22, 2017 by drahkon

[Jonnas]

If this concerns gambling-like practices alone, I can see some restrictions and obligations coming along. Namely, the same sort of restrictions that Japan and China already have for Gacha games and the like. Since the business model is much more popular in those countries, gambling restrictions were applied there sooner.

Due to my dedication to FE Heroes, I know that at least two such restrictions are "Odds for potential rewards must be stated in-game" (in other words, if there's a 50% chance of obtaining a common item, and only 3% for the rarest loot, that information must be written in the transaction menu) and "Luck-based rewards cannot be nerfed after the fact" (I think this is technically a more legally grey area, but reducing the value of the jackpot after someone wasted money to win it can easily lead to a lawsuit).

Naturally, I expect Belgium/EU/Hawaii to come up with different rulings (I've seen someone suggesting straight-up restricting the sale of games with lootboxes by raising the age rating and the like), but specific restrictions like those are the sort of change we might get. We might see regular DLC get caught in the crossfire, too.

[S.C.G]

While this might be a good thing as far as banning Loot Boxes is concerned which is a good thing, wherever there's a government involved... well, it could lead to a very slippery slope.

I'm already aware that regulations changed several years ago to do with the ratings systems which is fair enough, the most notable example of this I recall was with Pokémon Gold & Silver.

In the original GameBoy games, you had the gambling corner which featured slot machines which would reward you with coins so that you could buy in-game rewards - no real-world money obviously - but the slot machines had to be changed for the re-releases on the DS to something less gambling focused.

That's all well and good I suppose - though I still miss that original gambling corner - but what if any new laws brought in ended up extending to games such as say... Mario Kart which really doesn't have loot boxes or anything of the sort - it only recently got standard dlc - but what it does have is of course, the random item box from which you obtain the power-ups in the game; now something like this shouldn't be affected by any new laws coming in as it's not the same as loot boxes at all really but depending on how new laws are written it is technically possible that other games might end up becoming unintentional casualties of government law.

Hopefully this doesn't happen, what is most likely is that companies such as EA who seem to be blatantly abusing their consumers will be forced to make/publish proper games again which would be a good thing, because then maybe they could have a look at their back-catalogue  - which used to be phenomenal back in the 16-bit days - for inspiration on which games to honestly bring back as fully fleshed-out standalone experiences, just like most games used to be. (personally my vote would go to Road Rash)

But it could also be the start of banning established but harmless elements in videogames which have been around for a long time and don't really need to be changed as they are so ingrained in the history of the series' and even though as aforementioned I really do hope that this isn't the case, it's important to look at the picture as a whole.

Edited November 22, 2017 by S.C.G

[Hero-of-Time]

 

[Choze]

In places the UK existing gambling laws are being looked at as mentioned in the news. The fact gaming companies have pushed their luck too far might lead to some of them being compared to actual dedicated gambling and betting companies.

It is a shame that so many of this year's biggest games changed their rewards to push people into buying loot boxes.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Choze

[Nicktendo]

Stolen from ResetEra, but well worth a watch. 

 

[Glen-i]

I can only hope his prediction turns out to be true. No matter how you spin it, lootboxes have had a wholly negative impact on gaming.

Thanks for the video link, it was interesting to see where this all started.

[Nicktendo]

This video really opened my eyes to how EA have thus far approached this Switch (i.e. barely).  As pointed out in the Reset thread, EA's budgets for games haven't gone down as the video author claims, because they are releasing far fewer games per year. Though it has to be said, much of this budget is undoubtedly being eaten up by their huge corporate marketing campaigns. The Switch has proved in its infancy that a huge budget is not required for success. Hello Capcom. But EA's entire business model is structured around these huge budget titles now, so the Switch would probably be a drop in the ocean in comparison to the other consoles' revenue potential. Hence why the FIFA "experiment" failed. If you look at the sales numbers, it failed and I'm willing to bet, FUT therefore failed. The Xbox and PS4 have established communities of players who have been engaging with UT for years now. Anecdotal stuff: When I was back in the UK, all the guys at work were huge FUT players on Xbox One, and regularly sank money into it. Nintendo-only gamers, like myself, and probably a healthy swathe of early Switch adopters likely have no experience of such models (I certainly don't) and are probably less likely to dive in at a level other gamers have already been doing for years. I mean, sports games have never really been huge on Nintendo platforms anyway, have they? Not since Wayne Gretzky anyway. 

I very much doubt we'll see any EA games on the Switch, including the next FIFA. That pleases me. I hope Battlefield bombs to all hell, along with the sordid corporate machine that OK'd all of the vile crap found within it. I watched Giant Bomb playing NFS payback last week and I was astounded at how similar it was to Battlefront 2. It is literally a copy and paste job, just instead of flying around in space, you're driving a car. The sooner this company falls of the face of the earth the better. Then maybe a company with a shred of human decency will be able to handle such powerful and beloved licenses such as Star Wars and FIFA. 

[Hero-of-Time]

Good video, although I was already aware of the history of UT and the importance of it to EA. I've always had an eye on how much it makes every year. 

Its crazy how popular that mode is and it baffles me that people are happy to sink money into it. If you check various FIFA or football forums when a new FIFA launches you find it becomes a bragging war about who drops the most cash on day 1. It's nuts.

If things don't change, EA may lose the SW license but as a company they won't be going anywhere. As I said in the Battlefront thread, the casual gamers are what dictates the market and these are the ones who are splashing the cash on loot boxes. If the government do step in, then EA will likely start to sweat because an age rating may be slapped on something like FIFA . Saying that, GTA is 18 rated and that thing sold 85 million copies.

I'm glad he pointed out about how development costs haven't really increased as much as these publishers say they have. Jim Sterling also done this a month or two ago. The increase in 900 million dollars profit, thanks to low dev costs and by fleecing customers, is insane.

I don't agree with his Overwatch statement. It doesn't matter if the boxes are cosmetic or easily ignored. They still employ dodgey practices to get players to buy their product. Making the rewards both random and timed is a scummy way to go about things and can trigger players to spend cash in an attempt to get what they want before they disappear. It's funny that he went easy on Blizzard/Activision, as the advert that was on before his video was for Warcraft.  

 

 

[Nolan]

Of note, EA has adjusted everything in NFS to earn rewards quicker. Up to 2/3rds of the wait time cut. 

https://www.engadget.com/2017/11/23/need-for-speed-loot-box-patch/

[Dcubed]

It really astounds me just how much contempt that these shady developers and publishers really have for their customers.  I mean, this whole malarkey about Bungie rigging the Destiny 2 XP system to push players towards purchasing loot boxes is basically encroaching unto cartoon villanry territory.  Their response is so utterly insipid that I can practically see them twirling their flakey moustaches as they type!

 

And hell, I’m even hearing that they’re actually even lying about turning off the hidden XP modifications! Supposedly they’ve just tweaked them and are hoping that nobody notices! Honestly, you couldn’t make it up! 

 

These guys truly think that we’re a bunch of mugs!

[Nolan]

Honestly about the bungie one, I assumed from day 1 that the XP had diminishing returns. Because that’s literally how experience works in 99.9% of games. Only one I can think of that’s different is FF8. 

Being tied into bright engrams and that shit though does make it shady though. 

[Kav]

I know a lad who sunk over £1,000 into FIFA UT... and then once he had the one of the best teams you could possibly have, he let a guy con him online and gave him all his cards/team, thinking he would swap as he had as good a team too! 

[Choze]

To be fair to Bungie. The destiny stuff is simply no where near what other games are doing. Not ideal though. 

 

We’ll see how lootboxes go but they are the normal in many games now. Cod and fifa both are stupidly crazy monetisation wise. 

[Happenstance]

 

[Dcubed]

"Friends" BWAHAHAHAHA!!! Wow! The sheer contempt they have for us is hilarious!

 

This is just an attempt to hide the usage of lootboxes behind an umbrella label that applies to all DLC; if anything it actually just obscures the use of lootboxes even more than is being done now because it implies that it is no different from any other form of downloadable content transaction. They're purposely dancing around the issue in the hope that they can get away with not addressing the actual problem.

They actually do think we're that stupid.

Edited February 27, 2018 by Dcubed

[Dcubed]

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-02-28-hooked-on-loot-boxes

 

An excellent article on the matter that highlights how publishers are designing games to purposely consume people’s lives and how the ESRB are literally refusing to inform people about what lootboxes are... (their rationale? Because research shows that they don’t currently know what they are! - You honestly couldn’t make it up!)

 

The ESRB literally has one job, to inform people about what is in the games they are buying, and they are currently going out of their way to not do that job!

[Hero-of-Time]

Quote

Hot on the heels of the Netherlands declaring loot boxes are gambling and therefore illegal, Belgium has had its say.

The Belgian Gaming Commission looked at Star Wars Battlefront 2, FIFA 18, Overwatch and Counter-Strike: Global Offensive and found only Star Wars was not in violation of the country's gambling legislation - and that's only because EA stripped out the game's loot boxes after its launch debacle.

It determined FIFA 18, Overwatch and CS:GO's loot boxes are a game of chance and therefore subject to Belgian gaming law. Battlefront 2, at the time the investigation was conducted, did not have loot boxes, so escapes unscathed.

A statement from Minister of Justice Koen Geens said FIFA 18, Overwatch and Counter-Strike: Global Offensive were therefore illegal and demanded their loot boxes removed. If they're not, the publishers "risk a prison sentence of up to five years and a fine of up to 800,000 euros". When minors are involved, those punishments can be doubled, Greens added.

Belgium expressed a particular concern about the impact loot boxes have on young people. "It is often children who come into contact with such systems and we cannot allow that," Geens warned.

In fact, Geens requested the Belgian Gaming Commission investigated video game loot boxes after the Star Wars blow up. "Given the importance of the protection of minors and vulnerable players, this was very worrying," he said.

Good stuff. Hopefully other countries will open their eyes and jump on board.

[Hero-of-Time]

Looks like EA are going to continue pushing forward with these kinda of practices.

Quote

Belgium and the Netherlands have ruledthat many loot boxes in games like FIFA Ultimate Team are equivalent to gambling and in violation of their laws, but FIFA publisher Electronic Arts says it plans to continue its loot-box Ultimate Team mode.

“We’re going to continue pushing forward [with FIFA Ultimate Team],” EA chief executive officer Andrew Wilson said during a conference call with industry analysts. “We’re always thinking about our players. We’re always thinking about how to deliver these types of experiences in a transparent, fun, fair, and balanced way for our players — and we’ll continue to work with regulators on that.”

 

 

[Julius]

8 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Looks like EA are going to continue pushing forward with these kinda of practices.

The irony of wanting “transparent, fun, fair, and balanced” experiences for players in FIFA, when it’s been known/seen for years that the game is highly scripted 

[Sheikah]

The irony of wanting “transparent, fun, fair, and balanced” experiences for players in FIFA, when it’s been known/seen for years that the game is highly scripted 

The game is highly scripted? So that's why I always lose...

[Rummy]

Are folks here generally anti, pro, or indifferent to loot boxes? I understand the rulings to a point and don't particularly disagree with them - but I've dropped good time on OW loot boxes without much regret and felt they were informed choices etc. I can see why people both like and dislike them, but I feel on the whole the OW implementation has been generally the best way of doing it so far.

Curious to see how the publishers etc react in the countries of the rulings though.