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The EU?  

61 members have voted

  1. 1. The EU?

    • In
      47
    • Out
      8
    • Shake it all about
      6


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Posted
  Nuntendo said:
haha :p

 

 

 

I see you are living in St Petersberg. Are you Russian, may I ask?

 

 

 

British, but I've been living and working here for almost 2 years. I'm did my Master's in Estonia, worked in Latvia and did my teacher's qualifications in Poland because it was 70% cheaper than back home. I have Estonian residency until 2017 and used it to travel around Europe until UK citizens were required to travel with a passport in 2014.

 

It's simply amazing to get on a bus in Riga and wake up the next day in Warsaw, vastly different architecture, different culture, language and people- only 12 hours away. The removal of borders and ease of travel within Europe has arguably been one of the greatest EU achievements. The fact I was given a 5 year residency in Estonia shows they are welcome and open to knowledge and expertise and have a desire to strengthen their country, many other people I studied with stayed and now work in IT or academia in Tallinn. My Master's was a two year one, the first of which was in Glasgow and the second in Estonia, paid for by the European Union in the form of Erasmus funding.

 

I occasionally return to Tartu or Riga to visit friends and even the border with Russia is a smooth process. Quick check of the baggage, visa check and you're done. Same for my girlfriend, who is Russian. Different story when she comes to the UK though. She has to prove her income just to get a visa, present a detailed itinerary at the border and spend 30 mins answering questions about who she is, where she's going and why and who she knows. It's an excruciating and far from welcoming process and only highlights the level of paranoia in the UK compared with our European brethren.

 

The EU is not an uncontrollable behemoth which dictates British politics. It is a wonderful opportunity to affordably experience and engage with hundreds of different people and cultures. To see the effects of war and history, to understand why a united Europe is a stronger Europe. The opportunity to work, study or simply holiday in beautiful places with people from all walks of life. I'll be damned if a bunch of ignorant little englanders are going to ruin that for the people who actually understand and appreciate these benefits.

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Posted
  Nicktendo said:
One thing that's really annoyed me about this debate is the language being used. Why is it that a European living in the UK is an 'immigrant' and a Brit living in Europe an 'Ex Pat?'

 

I think the media uses the terms in different ways. EU "immigrants" are nasty people who steal our jobs because they're better than us (even though it's slightly more difficult to hire someone from the EU) and generally pay more taxes than they get out of the system as there's a much smaller percentage of children/elderly.

 

When they talk about "EX Pats", they usually mean people retiring to the EU, where they're no longer a drain on our resources.

Posted (edited)

From Facebook (via The Times written by A.A. Gill).

 

  Reveal hidden contents
Edited by Ashley
fixed spoiler tag
Posted

In.

Both sides have pros and cons but I feel the reasons to remain outweigh those of leaving. For many of the reasons posted in the thread already.

Posted
  Nicktendo said:
From Facebook.

 

  Reveal hidden contents
Posted

Oh yeah other than the people running the campaigns themselves, I don't think anyone is under the impression people have been arguing completely fairly or accurately!

 

Which is kind of a terrifying thing. This is huge and yet people are lying, exaggerating, misinterpreting left right and centre.

Posted (edited)
  Quote
I hope the majority of people are voting because of the reasons you have listed, and not because they think there's too many brown people. We might disagree but it's good to read nonetheless.

 

How did you know my reasons?!?! :o

 

Nah but seriously I'm in. Mostly because I think Out is gonna really hurt our economy and a lot of the promises being made by the campaigners aren't actually currently feasible promises(lack of power to promise/make those decisions, uncertainties etc). Immigration doesn't come onto my radar with it at all, I'm just very scared for our economy if we're out. I think the NHS is in jeopardy either way, but I think even more so if we leave, too.

 

  Shorty said:
I wouldn't worry about that! It's healthy to debate this. No point in the thread if we all just nodded and agreed.

 

I think some people will be glad to know that amongst those voting out, there are some level headed people doing it for reasons they have thought through.

 

I have friends voting Leave though. Whilst I can disagree and I have had discussions with some of them, I fully respect that we've all been given a vote and they're free to exercise and use that(I am tempted to remind them if it goes shit, though).

 

I'm still going to use mine, but personally I really don't think this should have been something left in the hands of the British public, in such a short time frame, with such little education provided. I think it's all just far too complex a picture for us all as armchair politicians to decide upon.

 

  Dr. bob said:
Just check the current odds, that's what I do. Bookies never lie.

 

The betting bug has bitten me recently. I'm very tempted to vote Leave(though odds are shortening) just so I get some small satisfaction even though it isn't the true outcome I want.

 

  King_V said:
Could...lol (btw I would typically 'thank' this but can't, is there some sort of Thanks limit?)

 

EU sanctions on thankings and politeness I'm afraid. Soon you're not even going to be allowed to say sorry even when someone else bumps into you.

the above is just a little joke please don't get upset or think I'm mocking anyone's views for being Leave, I'm not

 

  Sméagol said:
I would miss you guys!

 

Also I don't want to pay import taxes from Amazon.co.uk.

 

OMG ARE WE GOING TO BECOME N-UK?!?!

 

  Ashley said:
Oh yeah other than the people running the campaigns themselves, I don't think anyone is under the impression people have been arguing completely fairly or accurately!

 

Which is kind of a terrifying thing. This is huge and yet people are lying, exaggerating, misinterpreting left right and centre.

 

Again, this isn't an attack on those wanting to Leave(I personally can see legit arguments for both sides but feel, for me, the balance of probabilities re benefit are on those of Remain) but someone shared this this morning and I just found it unbelievable. I used to like Boris but this kinda thing quite scares me now.

 

Edited by Rummy
Posted
  Rummy said:

 

OMG ARE WE GOING TO BECOME N-UK?!?!

 

Asking the important questions.

 

Actually what should happen is that anyone from the UK should just leave, and N-Europe would continue on without us.

Posted
  Dr. bob said:
Asking the important questions.

 

Actually what should happen is that anyone from the UK should just leave, and N-Europe would continue on without us.

No you're still welcome here.

 

After you've shown your visa.

Posted (edited)
  Dog-amoto said:
Disgusting about the MP being killed this afternoon. Regardless of political views, this was someone's wife and mother.

 

Scum.

 

Whilst I'd agree and have to admit I'm still following it, the story is still quite current news. I don't think it's fair to tie it in any way to the In/Out referendum nor this thread. Acts and behaviour like that are purely abhorrent and nothing to do with debates like this, despite what anyone might insist or associate with them.

 

EDIT: Sorry should have said this isn't a post to dismiss your views, opinions, or feelings Dog-amoto. Just that if we were to do so I think it would warrant another thread on the separate topic of however one would opt to classify these acts. It's a dangerous topic of conversation with all the recent politics around it, but I don't wish to pre-emptively shut it down if people wish to discuss those issues sensible.

Edited by Rummy
Posted
  Rummy said:
Whilst I'd agree and have to admit I'm still following it, the story is still quite current news. I don't think it's fair to tie it in any way to the In/Out referendum nor this thread. Acts and behaviour like that are purely abhorrent and nothing to do with debates like this, despite what anyone might insist or associate with them.

 

EDIT: Sorry should have said this isn't a post to dismiss your views, opinions, or feelings Dog-amoto. Just that if we were to do so I think it would warrant another thread on the separate topic of however one would opt to classify these acts. It's a dangerous topic of conversation with all the recent politics around it, but I don't wish to pre-emptively shut it down if people wish to discuss those issues sensible.

 

Probably best to create a new thread for it anyway. As its a big enough subject to have a thread of its own. Tying this incident in with the EU In Out thing isnt helping anybody as there are many left wing arguments for exiting the EU also. I just dont think its helpful to mix the two stories in to one thread.

Posted
  Rummy said:
Whilst I'd agree and have to admit I'm still following it, the story is still quite current news. I don't think it's fair to tie it in any way to the In/Out referendum nor this thread. Acts and behaviour like that are purely abhorrent and nothing to do with debates like this, despite what anyone might insist or associate with them.

 

EDIT: Sorry should have said this isn't a post to dismiss your views, opinions, or feelings Dog-amoto. Just that if we were to do so I think it would warrant another thread on the separate topic of however one would opt to classify these acts. It's a dangerous topic of conversation with all the recent politics around it, but I don't wish to pre-emptively shut it down if people wish to discuss those issues sensible.

 

Nah it's ok. Been following it on Twitter and eyewitnesses are saying he was chanting EDL and making strong Out chants as well. But I suppose you can't trust everything you read on Twitter or any social media for that matter.

Posted
  Dog-amoto said:
Disgusting about the MP being killed this afternoon. Regardless of political views, this was someone's wife and mother.

 

Scum.

 

That's horrible. I had no idea what you meant because I was checking this post in my break at work. Just read the BBC coverage. That poor family.

 

As for me, I am definitely 100% IN. Remain.

 

I do find it odd that people have a problem with unelected officials in the EU, yet are completely fine with the House of Lords and the Queen...Also, to add further fuel to that, I never voted for David Cameron and the Conservatives, yet they still got in because of our shitty voting system.

 

I don't trust the Conservatives at all to call all of the shots. I think that's an absolute disaster waiting to happen. I also understand that the EU does need reforming, but I do still think that we should be a part of it. We need to be building and mending bridges, not burning them. I've also yet to see a truly viable plan of how we would deal with leaving the EU. The main message seems to be focusing on border control. "Take back control" seemed to be the message of the Leave campaign. I'm more concerned about our own officials, such as Michael Gove (the prick who is hated by every single teacher in the entire nation), Jeremy Hunt (hated by Doctors...and the public), etc.

Posted

I'm worried about how many people are actually voting Leave because of xenophobia and racism (even if they try to hide it). Reading comments on news articles and Facebook highlights just how many people blame "immigrants" or Brussels for their problems, when really those problems are caused by their own government, by austerity measures, by the economy going down the drain because of the banking crisis...

 

It makes me very sad reading these comments, and to be honest, a bit scared too. When people ask me where I'm from, I'm worried I'll get judged badly or treated differently simply because I'm from the EU.

 

The thing is that I didn't come here to steal any jobs (my first job here required you to speak Dutch, don't think many English could do that), I didn't come here to take your benefits (never had any in my life), I didn't come here to use your NHS (never been seen by a GP or been to the hospital in the UK) or take up spaces in schools (don't plan to have children). I only came here because my other half just happens to be English and I speak the language, so it made sense for me to move. And there are lots of people like me here, moving here to be with the one they love, or moving to get into the industry they want a career in.

 

It's difficult not to take this whole debate personal, but I find it impossible not to, there is just so much at stake, so many lives that will be affected. And I feel personally attacked by some of the comments I've seen online and in the news, just making me very sad, angry and scared.

 

:(

Posted
  Raining_again said:
100% remain.

 

Lots of leave votes from people i've spoken to but to be honest I think a lot of it is based on an awful lot of ignorant racism.... Still a bloody problem in this country....

 

I feel like making a poll on racism, would anybody object? :santa:

Posted (edited)

A must-watch... an actual expert (Professor of European Law) talking about both remaining and leaving.

 

Edited by Kav
Posted
  King_V said:
Are you a racist? (No, Yes, No but...)

 

And then perhaps a frank discussion on the topic if it goes that way.

 

You already did that.

 

Based on this thread.

 

 

But I think it would be good to have an updated thread. I don't think I was ever racist, but I did grow up in a 99+% white, working class community, so was ignorant of certain racial issues. Since that thread I've gone to uni, met many people of different races/nationalities/cultures, even met some middle class people (but I still don't like them), so I've definitely become more enlightened.


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