Posted March 5, 2016 I don't think that most of you realise what you can really do with this thing in this game... Being able to aim independently from your movement and even the TV screen is HUGE! You can literally have enemies come from behind you and attack you and you have to physically turn around to attack them! It works like a viewfinder in VR; giving you 360 degrees turning and 6DOF movement. Enemies can now be more aggressive and attack in ways that they never could've before; from all angles (and going by what Gamexplain said about the game, the developers do indeed take advantage of this). Having the gyro controls/dual screen stuff be an option would require them to completely redesign the game from scratch to be based around the lowest common denominator. It champions the Gamepad like Skyward Sword did for Motionplus and so, HAS to be designed without the option to turn them off. You all wanted Nintendo to make a game that was built entirely around what only the Gamepad could do? Well here it is! You can't have that AND have there be an option to ignore everything the Gamepad does; you're basically asking for a completely different game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 I don't think that most of you realise what you can really do with this thing in this game... Being able to aim independently from your movement and even the TV screen is HUGE! You can literally have enemies come from behind you and attack you and you have to physically turn around to attack them! It works like a viewfinder in VR; giving you 360 degrees turning and 6DOF movement. Enemies can now be more aggressive and attack in ways that they never could've before; from all angles (and going by what Gamexplain said about the game, the developers do indeed take advantage of this). Having the gyro controls/dual screen stuff be an option would require them to completely redesign the game from scratch to be based around the lowest common denominator. It champions the Gamepad like Skyward Sword did for Motionplus and so, HAS to be designed without the option to turn them off. You all wanted Nintendo to make a game that was built entirely around what only the Gamepad could do? Well here it is! You can't have that AND have there be an option to ignore everything the Gamepad does; you're basically asking for a completely different game. Sure, most people wanted Nintendo to do something with the controller...about 3 or 4 years ago when the WiiU is a brand new thing. It's on the way out. This game really should have appeared much earlier in the console's life-cycle. On paper, motion controls sound great. The reality is that they are a bit of a pain in the arse. Your example with "you have to physically turn around to attack them" is...just horrific imo. I don't know about you, but I don't game on a swiveling chair. I'm on the sofa. So, for me to have to turn around to attack an enemy coming from behind, I'd have to physically move right to the edge of the sofa in order to turn around or I'd have to stand up. Sometimes simplicity is best. Somebody in the thread earlier (Mr Paul, I think) mentioned just making StarFox like Rogue Squadron. I'd buy the shit out of that. Especially if it means I can come home after a long day at work and just play the game without having to piss about whilst doing it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) Being able to aim independently from your movement and even the TV screen is HUGE! You can literally have enemies come from behind you and attack you and you have to physically turn around to attack them! But you could do that with a rear view that is displayed on the TV and analogue sticks. If I'm sitting down I don't want to stand up to be able to turn around properly (and quickly). And - correct me if I'm wrong - but when I turn around with my gamepad to shoot enemies behind me, I won't be able to see the TV, meaning I won't be able to properly move during the shooting? Sorry, I haven't watched a recent gameplay video or anything. Edited March 5, 2016 by drahkon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 The thing is, as great as aiming anywhere on the screen sounds, it's awkward to control. If you think of a pilot flying something like one of these vehicles, they wouldn't realistically be able to aim a weapon and fly the vehicle at the same time. Which is why before this game they always shoot where they're facing - it works, and every other flying shooter until now does it like that. Sure, you can say it's just a game, it can do what it wants, but its based in reality to a degree. If it was solely two player/there were two characters in each arwing it'd make more sense. If you think of in Star Wars, the Millennium Falcon has its cannons which can fire in any direction, controlled by one person, and the flying is controlled by another. There's a good reason why in every Star Wars game ever made you can only fire forward rather than have full control of the Falcon's cannons. (A bit off topic, but it annoyed me in The Force Awakens Tie Fighter scene that Finn was controlling the blasters while facing towards the back of the vehicle! Was he doing it all via radar?) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 Star Fox would have made a great launch title game - feels strange for such a game to come so late. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 On paper, motion controls sound great. The reality is that they are a bit of a pain in the arse. Your example with "you have to physically turn around to attack them" is...just horrific imo. I don't know about you, but I don't game on a swiveling chair. I'm on the sofa. So, for me to have to turn around to attack an enemy coming from behind, I'd have to physically move right to the edge of the sofa in order to turn around or I'd have to stand up. Really???? I just did a test with my gamepad, and I'm able to swivel round without masses of problems... it's no different to me to when I drive and look over my shoulder.... just int his instance the "steering wheel" moves round with me meaning I can swivel round a bit further. Shooting directly behind me would be tricky but doable... I mean if it happens enough worse case scenario I'll get a fairly toned trunk I presume "edge of the sofa" means moving forwards? I don't know what style of sofa you have and how you feel comfortable gaming though, personally I tend to be sat forward anyway, I don't tend to lay back and slouch... for those who do I guess I can see there being a 60 degree blind spot behind them but... idk.. is that the normal way of gaming? I'm learning a lot these last few days Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 I'm pretty sure the aiming isn't 1:1, but rather you point left for a bit too look around. That's the impression I got from the more recent interviews. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 I don't think that most of you realise what you can really do with this thing in this game... Being able to aim independently from your movement and even the TV screen is HUGE! You can literally have enemies come from behind you and attack you and you have to physically turn around to attack them! It works like a viewfinder in VR; giving you 360 degrees turning and 6DOF movement. Enemies can now be more aggressive and attack in ways that they never could've before; from all angles (and going by what Gamexplain said about the game, the developers do indeed take advantage of this). Having the gyro controls/dual screen stuff be an option would require them to completely redesign the game from scratch to be based around the lowest common denominator. It champions the Gamepad like Skyward Sword did for Motionplus and so, HAS to be designed without the option to turn them off. You all wanted Nintendo to make a game that was built entirely around what only the Gamepad could do? Well here it is! You can't have that AND have there be an option to ignore everything the Gamepad does; you're basically asking for a completely different game. You should play the Zelda game in Nintendo Land if you like that sort of stuff. It's a shame this didn't come out 2-3 years ago really..would have made for an interesting early Wii U title. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 You should play the Zelda game in Nintendo Land if you like that sort of stuff. It's a shame this didn't come out 2-3 years ago really..would have made for an interesting early Wii U title. Yeah, it's a real shame that the likes of this, Mario Maker and Splatoon have come out so late. It was a big mistake to prioritise the safe sequels like DKCTF and NSMBU. A huge mistake that utterly destroyed the console's chances of success. But at least we're finally getting them. Bit late, but we're getting there Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 (A bit off topic, but it annoyed me in The Force Awakens Tie Fighter scene that Finn was controlling the blasters while facing towards the back of the vehicle! Was he doing it all via radar?) Well yes you'd have to, especially in a space battle where you can't see everywhere. You'd have to rely on radar more than line of sight. you and attack you and you have to physically turn around to attack them! I don't want to do that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 I don't think that most of you realise what you can really do with this thing in this game... Being able to aim independently from your movement and even the TV screen is HUGE! You can literally have enemies come from behind you and attack you and you have to physically turn around to attack them! It works like a viewfinder in VR; giving you 360 degrees turning and 6DOF movement. Enemies can now be more aggressive and attack in ways that they never could've before; from all angles (and going by what Gamexplain said about the game, the developers do indeed take advantage of this). Having the gyro controls/dual screen stuff be an option would require them to completely redesign the game from scratch to be based around the lowest common denominator. It champions the Gamepad like Skyward Sword did for Motionplus and so, HAS to be designed without the option to turn them off. You all wanted Nintendo to make a game that was built entirely around what only the Gamepad could do? Well here it is! You can't have that AND have there be an option to ignore everything the Gamepad does; you're basically asking for a completely different game. What are you supposed to do whilst your facing away from the TV?... just leave your Arwing to cruise into a mountain?... or fly off into the distance? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 What are you supposed to do whilst your facing away from the TV?... just leave your Arwing to cruise into a mountain?... or fly off into the distance? You have to look back and forth between both... like a real pilot! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 You have to look back and forth between both... like a real pilot! Honestly that sounds absolutely horrific. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 Honestly that sounds absolutely horrific. Each to their own but I actually think that sounds like a really interesting idea, having you multi task while you're playing and, ultimately/hopefully creating an incredibly immersive experience Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) Multitasking is one thing, but continuously turning around in a hectic battle doesn't seem like fun. It just sounds like a hassle. You have to look back and forth between both... like a real pilot! A real pilot doesn't look back and forth during flight...a real pilot would look at a radar screen either just below the front window or the front window displays data itself :p Edited March 5, 2016 by drahkon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) Each to their own but I actually think that sounds like a really interesting idea, having you multi task while you're playing and, ultimately/hopefully creating an incredibly immersive experience I don't know about your room, but mine doesn't look much like the inside of an arwing...still, got a couple of weeks to fix that I suppose Edited March 5, 2016 by Pestneb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 Plus, you wouldn't actually be able to do that in an arwing anyway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 A real pilot doesn't look back and forth during flight...a real pilot would look at a radar screen either just below the front window or the front window displays data itself :pYeah I was gonna say, don't let @Dcubed ever fly me anywhere because I'm preeeetty sure pilots and fighter jet pilots don't look around and behind them... outside of what you might see Will Smith doing in Independence Day. They have Heads up Displays and Radars, co-pilots to give them all the info they need. Anyway... I've just been watching the latest NVC where they talk about StarFox and it's an enjoyable watch. Peer echo's a lot of my feelings about the game, whilst Jose described a cool section of the game he'd played that utilised the gamepad to look around and it sounded a fun moment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 I wonder if they are able to look at usage of motion/stick controls in splatoon and noticed stick players ended up quitting completely or switching to motion anyway.... may have influenced their thinking as well? (not saying I agree with their thinking, just saying). Like is the second stick used for anything? Couldn't they have had the second stick allow the view to move the gamepad view? that would seem more realistic to me anyway... Also can the sensitivity of the motion controls be tweaked? so say 180 degree turn allows a full rotation, or more sensitive even and 90 degree would acheive a 100% rotation? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 Am I the only one who's laughing at you guys wanting realistic pilot controls? Last time I checked, Starfox was a series about anthropomorphic animals flying around shooting stuff in space and all sorts of planets. With lasers! But being able to look behind you mid-flight? Now that's mental! Priorities might be a bit eschewed here. Oh, and I had no idea Pilots used a WiiU Pro Controller to fly. Maybe I should sign up, I might be decent! Give a little suspension of disbelief here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 Really???? I just did a test with my gamepad, and I'm able to swivel round without masses of problems... it's no different to me to when I drive and look over my shoulder.... just int his instance the "steering wheel" moves round with me meaning I can swivel round a bit further. Shooting directly behind me would be tricky but doable... I mean if it happens enough worse case scenario I'll get a fairly toned trunk I presume "edge of the sofa" means moving forwards? I don't know what style of sofa you have and how you feel comfortable gaming though, personally I tend to be sat forward anyway, I don't tend to lay back and slouch... for those who do I guess I can see there being a 60 degree blind spot behind them but... idk.. is that the normal way of gaming? I'm learning a lot these last few days Edge of the sofa means if you were sat really far forward, yes. I do both. I slouch when I'm tired and want to chill out and sometimes sit forward if I'm reeeally taking things seriously, like playing against a friend in FIFA or Smash or something. It's not comfortable to face forwards one second, turn around 180degrees whilst holding the WiiU gamepad (which is obnoxiously big anyway) before turning back again. You CAN NOT turn around a full 180 if your back is already on the seat anyway...same with the driving analogy. You turn to look at the blind spots, but to look at what's directly behind you comfortably, you use the rear view mirror. That's sensible, comfortable and practical. If you really HAD to use motion controls to see what's coming ahead of you, to the left, directly behind you, back to the left again, behind you, back to the front and to the right in quick succession, you'd have to be standing up. Playing FIFA 13 with the WiiU controller was a pain when I tried the demo. You have to keep looking down, up, down, up again and so on and so on. It's just far too much effort for what should be a simple experience. The game itself shouldn't be fighting the controls...the game itself is what you're doing on screen. Am I the only one who's laughing at you guys wanting realistic pilot controls? You have to look back and forth between both... like a real pilot! Wut. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 Am I the only one who's laughing at you guys wanting realistic pilot controls? Last time I checked, Starfox was a series about anthropomorphic animals flying around shooting stuff in space and all sorts of planets. With lasers! But being able to look behind you mid-flight? Now that's mental! Priorities might be a bit eschewed here. Oh, and I had no idea Pilots used a WiiU Pro Controller to fly. Maybe I should sign up, I might be decent! Give a little suspension of disbelief here. So is this why my rabbit, toad and foxes didn't get along? DID SHIGERU MIYAMOTO LIE TO ME!?!?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 Edge of the sofa means if you were sat really far forward, yes. I do both. I slouch when I'm tired and want to chill out and sometimes sit forward if I'm reeeally taking things seriously, like playing against a friend in FIFA or Smash or something. It's not comfortable to face forwards one second, turn around 180degrees whilst holding the WiiU gamepad (which is obnoxiously big anyway) before turning back again. You CAN NOT turn around a full 180 if your back is already on the seat anyway...same with the driving analogy. You turn to look at the blind spots, but to look at what's directly behind you comfortably, you use the rear view mirror. That's sensible, comfortable and practical. If you really HAD to use motion controls to see what's coming ahead of you, to the left, directly behind you, back to the left again, behind you, back to the front and to the right in quick succession, you'd have to be standing up. Playing FIFA 13 with the WiiU controller was a pain when I tried the demo. You have to keep looking down, up, down, up again and so on and so on. It's just far too much effort for what should be a simple experience. The game itself shouldn't be fighting the controls...the game itself is what you're doing on screen. Cool. Just differences in the way we play then - generally if I wanted to relax I wouldn't play a game like starfox, so I tend to be more in a forward seated position anyway. I wasn't saying that I turned around 180 degrees... and nor did I say my back was against the seat... although having tested it I can still rotate the gamepad 180 degrees with my back against the seat so... I think this is a miscommunication somewhere down the line... but sat in my seat I can move my gamepad from being parallel to the wall in front of me to being parallel to the wall behind me and back again in under 2 seconds. I wouldn't say it is comfortable, but then nor would I say it is any less comfortable than playing a physical sport... Buuut... I appreciate everyone will have their own play style and I can see how if a full 180 degree turn is required it will be an issue for some... and if it is required too often it would be a problem for most. FIFA was a nightmare.. I hated it... but that metroid game in Nintendoland was actually pretty cool, and I'm hoping the game feels a lot more like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 I meant asynchronous in terms of different people having different gameplay, not one person having different views but I see where you're coming from. Even if the latter does exist on other consoles too Only if you use another device on other consoles i.e. PS4 and Vita And for the first bit, play co-op and this game is exactly that :p Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted March 5, 2016 Only if you use another device on other consoles i.e. PS4 and Vita And for the first bit, play co-op and this game is exactly that :p Or PS4 and most bloody smartphones or tablets. I'm all about using ubiquitously adopted tech but each their own Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
