Magnus Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I hate the phrase "Strong female character". The only person allowed to use that phrase is Kate Beaton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ville Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I hate the phrase "Strong female character". People who use the term "strong female character" are mostly male writers who are really bad at writing women. Mostly because they separate them into some different species other than human who only talk about the male characters or sex up every scene they're in. And it's so used and abused. For example Catwoman in Arkham City is so clearly written by a man who uses that term. Well it's Batman we're talking about, where everyone is over the top anyway. Only makes sense that the women are using their sexuality as a weapon too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cube Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I hate the phrase "Strong female character". People who use the term "strong female character" are mostly male writers who are really bad at writing women. Mostly because they separate them into some different species other than human who only talk about the male characters or sex up every scene they're in. And it's so used and abused. For example Catwoman in Arkham City is so clearly written by a man who uses that term. Although one good example of a game with a "strong female character" is Mass Effect, because there isn't much of a difference in how the male and female versions act. Characters like Liara and Tali are also brilliant female characters. And then the spoil it by having the camera directly behind Miranda's arse in every single cutscene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Well it's Batman we're talking about, where everyone is over the top anyway. Only makes sense that the women are using their sexuality as a weapon too... This reminds me of when we had this discussion in a thread last year and someone said that of course female superheroes are so sexualized - they're doing it to distract the bad guys! Like, yeah, that's why comic book writers/artists write/draw women the way they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoogleViper Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I find the term "strong female character" to be very sexist. The fact that you need to state that she's strong implies that women normally aren't. You'd never say "strong male character". the same goes for "independent woman". Because normally women are slaves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 'Independent woman' is just an easier way to say 'single woman who lives alone and talks to her cat'. 'Strong female character' I assume refers to characters like Pippi Longstocking. She's strong, female and a character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ville Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 (edited) This reminds me of when we had this discussion in a thread last year and someone said that of course female superheroes are so sexualized - they're doing it to distract the bad guys! Like, yeah, that's why comic book writers/artists write/draw women the way they do. :wink: Same reason why male superheroes are ripped as hell, it's fantasy. They're not meant to be realistic, but to represent universal characteristics / phenomena. A typical male superhero is an extreme manifestation of a typically masculine trait, i.e. power. Superman, for example, can do almost anything he damn pleases, and looks like he was chiseled out of stone. Extreme manifestation of masculinity. Beauty, however, is a feminine trait, hence why you also have the extreme versions of that. Women just have more curves to show off, and a beautiful woman will get men to lock their eyes on her, that's just a fact. Take this to an extreme, and you get fantasy women that are incredibly beautiful and dressed up in rather revealing outfits. One feminine characteristic taken to an extreme. What comes to using sexuality as a weapon, again it's a feminine power. IRL, much easier for women to pull off, but not so easy for men. Thus it's a no-brainer that fantasy women use it, especially if they're "evil" or morally ambiguous characters, like Catwoman. In a chaotic world full of raging psychopaths, they have no reason not to. Edited January 21, 2013 by Ville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 OhmyGodyouneedtostopreading/r/MensRights. But also, this isn't the thread for this, so let's just leave it. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ville Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 OhmyGodyouneedtostopreading/r/MensRights. But also, this isn't the thread for this, so let's just leave it. :p So just because I present a different viewpoint, I'm automatically wrong → cue condescending, smarmy remark? Wtf man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightwolf Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 So just because I present a different viewpoint, I'm automatically wrong → cue condescending, smarmy remark? Wtf man... I'd beg to differ on women finding it easier to pull, without some evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnas Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 I hate the phrase "Strong female character". People who use the term "strong female character" are mostly male writers who are really bad at writing women. Mostly because they separate them into some different species other than human who only talk about the male characters or sex up every scene they're in. And it's so used and abused. For example Catwoman in Arkham City is so clearly written by a man who uses that term. Reminds me of this article. ("Male writers think 'Strong Female Character' means 'Strong Female' character, when it usually means 'Strong Character' female.") The problem with these "strong" female characters is that they're still written as fulfilling a male fantasy (a sexy woman who can kick the ass she needs to kick, but still becomes the damsel in distress when it's most convenient for the love interest. Also, her purpose and existence in the film seems to revolve around the male lead). The way they're drawn/dressed/shown usually reflects the writing behind it, but not necessarily. [And I think Ville makes a decent point: American comic books tend to fulfill fantasies. The problem is, they're male fantasies. Guys like Superman are fulfilling a male fantasy, too (the male ideal of masculinity).] Examples of strong female characters done right are usually characters that could be men, and it wouldn't change the story (not by much, at least). Like Cube said, Shepard in Mass Effect. Though, once again, this is not necessarily so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Sometimes men can write strong female characters and label them as such. Yes, I am speaking about a sassy blonde P.I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 This may need a thread rip perhaps? Speaking of which, I hate the term 'thrip'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekunando Posted January 20, 2013 Share Posted January 20, 2013 Everything.. People are annoying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rummy Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 (edited) Beauty, however, is a feminine trait hey screw you guy i am beautiful too (i think a thrip/voluntary starting of such would be quite delightful. I am however, not quite sure it's taken form enough here to become it's own entity, what is it...exactly?) Edited January 21, 2013 by Rummy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Reminds me of this article. ("Male writers think 'Strong Female Character' means 'Strong Female' character, when it usually means 'Strong Character' female.") The problem with these "strong" female characters is that they're still written as fulfilling a male fantasy (a sexy woman who can kick the ass she needs to kick, but still becomes the damsel in distress when it's most convenient for the love interest. Also, her purpose and existence in the film seems to revolve around the male lead). The way they're drawn/dressed/shown usually reflects the writing behind it, but not necessarily. [And I think Ville makes a decent point: American comic books tend to fulfill fantasies. The problem is, they're male fantasies. Guys like Superman are fulfilling a male fantasy, too (the male ideal of masculinity).] Examples of strong female characters done right are usually characters that could be men, and it wouldn't change the story (not by much, at least). Like Cube said, Shepard in Mass Effect. Though, once again, this is not necessarily so. What is the female ideal of masculinity would you say (or femininity, for that matter)? (A question for everyone, really.) I think I've always thought of masculinity/femininity/gender role ideals as evolutionally/culturally rooted rather than gender-specific. (A thread rip might indeed be in order.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I'd beg to differ on women finding it easier to pull, without some evidence. you'd best be trolling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnas Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 What is the female ideal of masculinity would you say (or femininity, for that matter)? (A question for everyone, really.) I think I've always thought of masculinity/femininity/gender role ideals as evolutionally/culturally rooted rather than gender-specific. (A thread rip might indeed be in order.) When I used the term, I was referring to what a man or woman sees as what an ideal man should be. Muscle-bound, ass-kicking, testosterone-filled dudes are that ideal for a lot of men, but most women tend to value other things, even on a superficial level (like the eyes, face, or even an actually well-shaped body as opposed to simply large pecs*) *Disclaimer: I am not actually a woman, so I'm just stating what I've gathered. Anyway, where is that thread rip...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murr Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 "Can't see the wood through the trees" .... Shut the fuck up. Cannot stand that, and it get's referenced at least twice a week in our scrum meetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 When I used the term, I was referring to what a man or woman sees as what an ideal man should be. Muscle-bound, ass-kicking, testosterone-filled dudes are that ideal for a lot of men, but most women tend to value other things, even on a superficial level (like the eyes, face, or even an actually well-shaped body as opposed to simply large pecs*)*Disclaimer: I am not actually a woman, so I'm just stating what I've gathered. Anyway, where is that thread rip...? Oh, I know, it was just your take on what a woman might value as opposed to a man, which you have now given. Like I said, I think I've always thought of such ideals as being more universal in a given culture and not dependent on the gender of the "viewer", so to speak. It's interesting getting another perspective on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 "Can't see the wood through the trees" .... Shut the fuck up. Cannot stand that, and it get's referenced at least twice a week in our scrum meetings. Do you not like it because that's not what the phrase is? Or do you not like the actual phrase and have just written it wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fierce_LiNk Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Somebody used the line "singing from the same hymn sheet" today. Steam coming out of my ears, ready to use RAGGGGGEEE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 "Can't see the wood through the trees" .... Shut the fuck up. Cannot stand that, and it get's referenced at least twice a week in our scrum meetings. This is hilarious. Earlier on, I was going to reply to this and say that I've never ever heard anybody say this in my life. However, earlier on, I had a conversation on the phone with my Grandad and he used that quote. Weird! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iun Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 "I'm made up, mate!" IN WHAT WAY, SHAPE OR FORM ARE YOU A FICTIONAL CHARACTER? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murr Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Do you not like it because that's not what the phrase is? Or do you not like the actual phrase and have just written it wrong? That is right isn't it? Or at least, that's the wording of the expression every time I've heard it. Every now and again the word 'Wood' is subbed as 'Forrest', But genuinely hear it as wood through the trees at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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