Retro_Link Posted January 7, 2015 Author Posted January 7, 2015 Thing is Nintendo's games aren't really going in the direction I'd personally like them to. To me that's more of an issue than the fact they messed up with the Wii U.
Blade Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 @kav82 You said that you were looking forward to more playstation games than Wii U ones and because of that Nintendo are losing the gamer. I disagreed. You are a single gamer. I'm a gamer yet as of today Nintedo hasn't lost me. What cannot be denied is that the PS4 has a wide appeal and is attracting gamers in their droves.
Sheikah Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) I think saying "anything could happen" regarding Nintendo and the competition is a bit of a crude way of looking at things and possibly even ignoring the way things really are. Really, if you look at those game-changing moments throughout the generations there's always a strong (and fairly unique) reason behind the shifts in power between console developers. Sony's rise was mainly the result of adopting technology that Nintendo didn't, making it easy to develop games and much cheaper for the customer. Microsoft were already a giant who appeared at the right time and brought with them a very good understanding of networking (although, at the end of the day, the PS3 still did better overall; adopting Blu Ray made it hella expensive to begin with but was a really good decision in the long run). The 'shifts' in power usually either occur because of an exciting new technology (only rarely though, but that happened with the Wii and somewhat with the PS1) or by making a machine simultaneously affordable for both developers/customers and also ticking all the boxes for gamers. At least recently, the former example (new technology) is the thing Nintendo excelled at with the Wii, while the latter (machine that ticks all the right boxes for customers/devs) is what the PS4 and (to a lesser extent) X1 are excelling at. The problem with this is that the exciting new technology is the only front that Nintendo seem able to win on. They can't pluck online from air, or entice the developers back. And creating an incredibly 'must-have' exciting technology to buffer this situation seems such an incredibly unlikely event; in the past several Nintendo generations, only the Wii managed to do it. Edited January 7, 2015 by Sheikah
Blade Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Thing is Nintendo's games aren't really going in the direction I'd personally like them to. To me that's more of an issue than the fact they messed up with the Wii U. That's a good point. If you don't like their games anymore then you dont get their consoles. It's pretty simple and something that I cannot disagree with. At present I still enjoy their games. My tastes may change in the future.
Fierce_LiNk Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Thing is Nintendo's games aren't really going in the direction I'd personally like them to. To me that's more of an issue than the fact they messed up with the Wii U. That's a good point. If you don't like their games anymore then you dont get their consoles. It's pretty simple and something that I cannot disagree with. At present I still enjoy their games. My tastes may change in the future. Nintendo's games certainly haven't evolved in the way that I would have liked them to. I remember we were on GameCube-Europe, years back. When online gaming started to become a thing on consoles, we were all talking about 32player online F Zero races. A new Mario Kart with story modes and tooooons of options, online and offline. New Nintendo franchises with Retro Studios becoming an important piece of the puzzle. More survival horrors like Eternal Darkness. A really big emphasis on story-telling. Jaw dropping graphics and sound. If I showed the young me the way things currently are on the WiiU, I definitely know that I would have been disappointed.
Kav Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 @kav82 You said that you were looking forward to more playstation games than Wii U ones and because of that Nintendo are losing the gamer. I disagreed. You are a single gamer. I'm a gamer yet as of today Nintedo hasn't lost me. What cannot be denied is that the PS4 has a wide appeal and is attracting gamers in their droves. I didn't say they've lost every gamer. I think youre reading what I said in extremes. I'd not say I said it in an extreme because the sales figures show that a lot of gamers are not buying it.
Blade Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 I didn't say they've lost every gamer. I think youre reading what I said in extremes. I'd not say I said it in an extreme because the sales figures show that a lot of gamers are not buying it. You have misunderstood. You said that you are more looking forward to the games being released on PS4 than the Wii U and therefore to you Nintendo has lost the gamer. To you maybe. You did not quote sales figures in that post. You provided an opinion but stated it as fact.
Fierce_LiNk Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 You have misunderstood. You said that you are more looking forward to the games being released on PS4 than the Wii U and therefore to you Nintendo has lost the gamer. To you maybe. You did not quote sales figures in that post. You provided an opinion but stated it as fact. This year I'm looking forward to more PS4 games than WiiU games, which to me just says how Nintendo are losing the gamer. In fairness to Kav, he does say "losing" instead of losing. As in it's a continual process. Whether they have lost them or not is almost a different question as to whether they're losing them currently. Imo, you're both right. Nintendo perhaps hasn't lost them yet but they are in the process of doing so. Especially if they proceed down the route of gimmicks, more controllers, no online, no voice chat, no mature games, no third parties, no sports titles, etc. The problem is that there is more than one type of gamer. There will always be a certain crowd who follow Nintendo. Someone like @Hero\-of\-Time for example who wants to own everything and play everything. This is, however, a niche audience and it's fucking expensive doing so.
Esequiel Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Surely most of the games you play now you could've played on the Xbox One? And still play titan fall? Though PS4 will have better exclusives moving forward easily. @dazzybee I do agree with you upto a point. I had stopped gaming pretty much for the last year or so of last gen, we only had consoles in the house for my kids. It was titanfall that made me think.. Ok I need to play that. That's why I ended up getting the xbone, but Jesus, the change from the 360 was crazy. The easy to use UI was gone, the thing took an age to do anything and mine was soooo unrealiable! I never got caught in the red ring palava of the 360 and never had a problem with any of them! The one broke 3 times in as many weeks! I pretty much rage quit the one and forced myself to get a PS4, ask my wife lol I was so close to just getting my cash back. But the PS4 has charmed me, I love the UI, trophys are growing on me, the downloads are great. PSN is no where near as good as live and the DS4 will never match the xbox controller for me. As for the Wii U, it felt like a novelty console for me and I lost interest very quickly. If they allowed me to redownload my previous purchases I would be tempted to get one solely for smash and Mario maker. But I wont buy a machine that I cant access my £200 of downloads on. Ninty need to catch up on the online front.
Ashley Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 But that's one. To be honest I'm seriously considering whether I want the next sony with how I feel this gen - all gamed out bar Nintendo. And indies. And fifa. Are sony losing gamers? I sort of tease, as I feel nintendo have fucked up royally with things. But I think each generation resets. If nintendo announce an ultra powerful console with party chat and a brand new spunking mario and has 3rd party support then you'll buy it. Other people will buy it. You've made that decision after one year of this generation? Come on, at least wait until the new decade rolls around when the next generation will begin kicking in
Kav Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 You have misunderstood. You said that you are more looking forward to the games being released on PS4 than the Wii U and therefore to you Nintendo has lost the gamer. To you maybe. You did not quote sales figures in that post. You provided an opinion but stated it as fact. Losing the gamer, I said. I also talked about multiplayer, online and voice-chat in my post which you choose to ignore for some odd reason. So tell me where I said that the fact I'm looking forward to more PS4 games is the ONLY reason Nintendo are LOSING the gamer. I'll tell you what though, it IS a fact that they are losing the gamer and the sales figures prove it. Just because I didn't mention them in that one post doesn't mean that it's not irrelevant. Sheikah saw this and posted. The thing that makes me laugh hilariously most of all over your posts is the fact that we know each other and have spoken loads about this and so you actually know there are PLENTY of reasons I think that Nintendo are losing the gamer. Hell, anyone that reads other posts in the forum knows I've a number of reasons that I think that. Yet you go on as if that one single sentence in that one single post is the only reason I have to think that. Hilariously silly posting Blade!
Blade Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Losing the gamer, I said. I also talked about multiplayer, online and voice-chat in my post which you choose to ignore for some odd reason. So tell me where I said that the fact I'm looking forward to more PS4 games is the ONLY reason Nintendo are LOSING the gamer. I'll tell you what though, it IS a fact that they are losing the gamer and the sales figures prove it. Just because I didn't mention them in that one post doesn't mean that it's not irrelevant. Sheikah saw this and posted. The thing that makes me laugh hilariously most of all over your posts is the fact that we know each other and have spoken loads about this and so you actually know there are PLENTY of reasons I think that Nintendo are losing the gamer. Hell, anyone that reads other posts in the forum knows I've a number of reasons that I think that. Yet you go on as if that one single sentence in that one single post is the only reason I have to think that. Hilariously silly posting Blade! Glad that you find my posts hilarious. That's what mates are for!
Emerald Emblem Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Amazon have finally sent me my LBP3 code, funny story, until now my most played game on PS4 is the FIFA 15 Demo, Watch_Dogs has been quite the disappointment.
Blade Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Amazon have finally sent me my LBP3 code, funny story, until now my most played game on PS4 is the FIFA 15 Demo, Watch_Dogs has been quite the disappointment. What is it about Watch Dogs that you found disappointing?
Esequiel Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 I loved watch dogs. From start to finish I really enjoyed it. Ignore choze, hes a bit of a tit.
Kav Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Watch Dogs isn't as bad as people make out. Plenty of fun can be had with it... although, like a lot of Ubisoft games, it failed to live up to the hype/what they made it out to be.
dazzybee Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 You're implying that Nintendo will fix their problems or that the problems aren't that big to begin with. They've actually got tons and tons of issues and the list is growing. 1. Third parties are disappearing and this is a trend that has been going on for numerous generations. They didn't get as much support for the N64 as the Playstation and the trend has continued to today. The Wii in particular missed out on so many franchises and games because it couldn't cope with it technically. Nintendo haven't rectified this problem with the WiiU and I think it's even worse now that they've lost EA. 2. Your typical teenage gamer who plays COD and Fifa won't go anywhere near a Nintendo machine. They've lost this particular audience and I can't see how they're going to attract them. 3. Nintendo don't give you particularly good value for money for the console as an entertainment system. I use the PS4 to also watch my films now, making my 3D Blu-ray player redundant. It happened with the Gamecube and it carried on with the Wii. It's an advantage when buying the system and comparing them. Look at the price of the WiiU and look at the price of the PS4 and One. Subtract the cost of a 3D Blu-ray player and when you add in the fact that the One and PS4 are much more powerful than the WiiU, you can see just how poor value for money the WiiU is. 4. Nintendo have problems creating new IPs and are too heavily reliant on their older names to attract the older crowd. Mario, Zelda, Mario Kart, Donkey Kong. Kirby can now be added to that list. 5. They're burning gamers who just want to play games by being so focused on the input method rather than the end product; the games themselves. Gamers want to play new games, they don't necessarily want to learn a new input method and it doesn't necessarily mean the finished product will be any better for it. How many gamers were turned off by motion controls with the Wii and how many dislike the WiiU's controller? 6. They have an image problem and are seen as the "quirky" games company. They're seen as child-ish and as a result they have a hard time attracting more mature content for the WiiU. Did the Walking Dead games (the great ones) appear on the system? Why not? 7. They're not embracing online and look for reasons not to include it. When games have it, there's usually some sort of catch. Last gen it was friend codes, this time it's no voice chat. Online isn't seen as a standard on the system but rather as a very optional extra that is sometimes offered. There's more, but my coffee has now gone cold. They've got massive problems and I fear for them. I've gone from loving the Wii to hating the WiiU and I won't be getting the next system at launch out of principle. Not sure if I'll even bother at all because , imo, they're not doing enough to attract me to them. Just want to state that this is all my personal feeling and I'm not stating it as the facts, but rather how I see things. How does that imply that? I DO think they will but how does it imply it? 1. If Nintendo created a console at parity with the other console archtecturally then they'd get way more third party ports. 2. They don't have them now, doesn't mean they won't have them next gen? Who'd have thought the insane amount of xbox players would've jumped ship so quickly? Or all the sega/nintendo gamers to sonys new playstation? You underestimate how fickle young people are. 3. I don't think this is that big an issue. Especially into the future when everything is digital downloads and streaming services. 4. Possibly. I don't think relying on old IP is a bad thing though. Zelda attracts an older crowd, metered does, zero could, smash and Mario kart do. Who's to say they WON'T create new IP. I don't think this is that important though. 5. But a lot of people bought the wii so not that many people were put off by it. Who's to say the next console will have some huge gimmick 6. They have a huge image problem. It's what's hurting them and the only thing lifting Sony to such giddy heights (partly down to things dine right before people start crying) 7. They're embracing it more, but who's to say they won't go all in over the next few years and be absolutely ready for next gen, it wouldn't be difficult to do. All of your problems are relatively easy fixes, you've completely assumed nintendo won't/can't do any of these things. I'm not saying they will, but my only point was, they fix their huge errors and they'll be in a far better position. What they need to fix, as your list proves in my opinion, is that it isn't actually much! You've made that decision after one year of this generation? Come on, at least wait until the new decade rolls around when the next generation will begin kicking in Ha, of course, and I'll blatantly get it anyway, always do. Maybe then I won't have such a huge backlog and actually be more interested in what are probably great games I just don't have time for (Mordor appeals to me for example...)
Sheikah Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 How does that imply that? I DO think they will but how does it imply it? 1. If Nintendo created a console at parity with the other console archtecturally then they'd get way more third party ports. Assuming Nintendo's Wii 3/etc console launches in 2016 or early 2017, by the time the PS4/Nextbox come out that Nintendo console will be outmatched again. So even if it was supported by a smattering of ports, it wouldn't be for long. Unless they continue Wii U right up until the end of the other console's lifetimes then they've no chance of matching on hardware, because technology improves massively in even just a few years. Thus, software will suffer again. I don't think anyone here thinks they're going to keep the Wii U going that long given how the state of things are. 2. They don't have them now, doesn't mean they won't have them next gen? Who'd have thought the insane amount of xbox players would've jumped ship so quickly? Or all the sega/nintendo gamers to sonys new playstation? You underestimate how fickle young people are. You seem to be falling back on the 'who knows what will happen' air of mystery. The truth is, Nintendo show no huge signs of adopting a PS4-esque 'for the (core) gamer' approach with the intention of taking on the other 2 consoles, which is basically how PS4 got people to switch. So long as they don't, they're not going to become the console of choice for the kinds of games that attract youth (like somebody mentioned, FIFA and COD). The exception would be if they came up with a 'wonder' game with the impact of something like Minecraft or Wii Sports. But really, that sort of wonder could happen for anyone and we've no reason to really believe that's going to happen here. 4. Possibly. I don't think relying on old IP is a bad thing though. Zelda attracts an older crowd, metered does, zero could, smash and Mario kart do. Who's to say they WON'T create new IP. I don't think this is that important though. I think new IP is very important as it provides a fresh experience that can grab new audiences. I really do think that Nintendo do need to focus more on it, as, well as moving away from very formulaic ways of making specific game series (e.g. NSMB). 5. But a lot of people bought the wii so not that many people were put off by it. Who's to say the next console will have some huge gimmick The problem with a gimmick is that it's a lottery, and one that really hurt their current console in terms of its popularity and pricing. In contrast to this, listening to your gamers, working with developers to include features they want and making the machine that ultimately wants is no lottery. Saying that they might make a gimmick that people adore like the Wii (which is the scale of gimmick they really would need to really be a home console success again) is really stretching it, to be honest. They've only ever made a home console with that level of hype around a gimmick once. I don't think we should really entertain what so far seems to be a one hit wonder event. All of your problems are relatively easy fixes, you've completely assumed nintendo won't/can't do any of these things. I'm not saying they will, but my only point was, they fix their huge errors and they'll be in a far better position. What they need to fix, as your list proves in my opinion, is that it isn't actually much! Last point, with regards to this, I couldn't disagree more. All the problems together represent one colossal, incredibly different problem that is in no way easy to fix. The image problem alone is a difficult fix, without even accounting for the other problems. Mainly, the catch up they'd have to do in terms of tech in line with the competition is humongous, even if they even managed to regain goodwill with third parties. It's overwhelmingly more likely that they're not going to fix these problems and become a worldwide home console contender.
Clownferret Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 you've all fallen into the "PS4 has sold more therefore it's better" trap AGAIN. Some of us were chatting about this whilst playing FIFA at the weekend, every console discussion invariably ends up as defending the PS4 because it's sold more and justifying how bad the Wii U is because it's sold less. Both consoles have plenty of faults but I've been amazed how patient PS4 owners are and how every bad thing about PS4 seems to somehow end up being a rant at Nintendo. Somebody posted the other day that the charging cable was too short , meaning you had to sit right in front of the tv and one was response was "well at least it's not the gamepad" Even when we were playing FIFA and the voice chat kept cutting out, every body was so chilled "oh PSN is down again, this happened the other day" yet the vitriol aimed at Nintendo is brutal.
Agent Gibbs Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 I love Nintendo and I love Sony, but which one is better? theres only one way to find out!
Sheikah Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 you've all fallen into the "PS4 has sold more therefore it's better" trap AGAIN. Some of us were chatting about this whilst playing FIFA at the weekend, every console discussion invariably ends up as defending the PS4 because it's sold more and justifying how bad the Wii U is because it's sold less.. Look back and you'll see most of this discussion stemmed from "Nintendo has lost the gamer". So rather than people's anecdotal +1s of "they've not lost me", the sales really do paint the real picture. If Nintendo weren't losing gamers (ie. most people were happy with their offering) then the console wouldn't be selling so badly, relative to how their consoles used to sell. Likewise, if PS4 wasn't resonating with gamers then it wouldn't have sold 18.5 million in just over a year. Sales talk may be a bit cold but it makes for a watertight argument.
Happenstance Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Also there wasnt a comment on "at least its not the gamepad" when talking about the charge cable length. It was a relevant comment on the fact that the Wii U has different charging cables.
Kav Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Anyhoo, it has become a discussion about Nintendo so I'm sorry, I didn't mean for it to. I do like how Sony are catering for the gamer though. The console's features, PS+ games, PS Now (when it's all up and running), listening to and making sure they do what 3rd Party Developers want to guarantee they get their games, giving us a very diverse range of games both indie and AAA. They've really thought it all out this generation and have done better than the others as a result.
Blade Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 you've all fallen into the "PS4 has sold more therefore it's better" trap AGAIN. Some of us were chatting about this whilst playing FIFA at the weekend, every console discussion invariably ends up as defending the PS4 because it's sold more and justifying how bad the Wii U is because it's sold less. Both consoles have plenty of faults but I've been amazed how patient PS4 owners are and how every bad thing about PS4 seems to somehow end up being a rant at Nintendo. Somebody posted the other day that the charging cable was too short , meaning you had to sit right in front of the tv and one was response was "well at least it's not the gamepad" Even when we were playing FIFA and the voice chat kept cutting out, every body was so chilled "oh PSN is down again, this happened the other day" yet the vitriol aimed at Nintendo is brutal. I didn't think anyone said because it has sold more "it is better". It's just that the sales figure support the fact that the PS4 and its games have wider public appeal than the Wii U.
Hero-of-Time Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Some of us were chatting about this whilst playing FIFA at the weekend, every console discussion invariably ends up as defending the PS4 because it's sold more and justifying how bad the Wii U is because it's sold less. Both consoles have plenty of faults but I've been amazed how patient PS4 owners are and how every bad thing about PS4 seems to somehow end up being a rant at Nintendo. Somebody posted the other day that the charging cable was too short , meaning you had to sit right in front of the tv and one was response was "well at least it's not the gamepad" Even when we were playing FIFA and the voice chat kept cutting out, every body was so chilled "oh PSN is down again, this happened the other day" yet the vitriol aimed at Nintendo is brutal. As I said whilst playing Fifa, Sony don't get a free pass when things are going wrong. The PSN outage over Christmas was shocking and the threads on GAF were filled with angry people kicking off with the company. Many of us on here have also pointed out how the messaging system on PSN has sucked over the past few months. You could also go back to when the PS3 had its first year to see how unhappy gamers were. Luckily Sony seen what the problem was and turned the things around, which led them nicely into this generation. You could say the same about Microsoft. People weren't happy with their policies so they changed them. People weren't happy that they focused on Kinect and entertainment, so they changed their message. People weren't happy that party chat was a bit naff at the launch of the One, so they changed it. This is where I see a big difference between Nintendo and the other two. The other two seem to listen to consumer feedback and look to change to best fit the user and make their product more appealing. Nintendo have shown, especially this generation, that they are more than happy to stick their head in the sand and ignore what many consumers are wanting from them.
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