Election 2010 - Con/Lib Government

[dazzybee]

I've never understood exams at all to be honest. Is there ever a situation in real life where you have 3 hours and only what's in your brain to do something? I actually quite hope there is' date=' but I really doubt it.[/quote']

 

I hate exams (as previously declared) but there are any situations in a lot of jobs where you only have 3 hours to do something!! Many many many times.

[nightwolf]

I've never understood exams at all to be honest. Is there ever a situation in real life where you have 3 hours and only what's in your brain to do something? I actually quite hope there is' date=' but I really doubt it.[/quote']

 

Its why I'm glad I happened to choose a career path that means I won't do exams at university. All mine is hands on modelling, level building or essay writing.

 

Exams baffle me, I can't study for them, it has to be a continuous cycle of me going back to the same program and making things.

[Will]

I hate exams (as previously declared) but there are any situations in a lot of jobs where you only have 3 hours to do something!! Many many many times.

 

In the same situation as an exam? Just you at a desk with your pen?

[Raining_again]

I hate exams (as previously declared) but there are any situations in a lot of jobs where you only have 3 hours to do something!! Many many many times.

 

I've done many things in work that ive done in college, on a set timescale, so honestly its definitely required.

 

And it teaches the importance of deadlines...you might get a second chance in uni but by fuck you don't in the real world

[dazzybee]

I've done many things in work that ive done in college, on a set timescale, so honestly its definitely required.

 

And it teaches the importance of deadlines...you might get a second chance in uni but by fuck you don't in the real world

 

Yeah same here. It happens every other day for me. And yeah, sometimes at a desk with a pen in my hand.

[Supergrunch]

The Primary system definitely has improved, in my opinion. It's also really fun to teach in it, and the kids just seem to enjoy learning. Sadly, it seems to turn to shit when they reach Secondary School. When people talk about the failure of the education system, they usually refer to Secondary Education. I just find it very impersonal. The kids have so many different teachers and so many things going on. There's this consistency in Primary which I think does them a world of good.

I don't know nearly as much about primary; from what I do understand it's at the very least a good deal better than Secondary is at the moment. So you may well be right.

Do you know how many MORE graduates there are under labour? This is one factor. The recession being another factor. Fact is, anyone can go to University now. Anyone. My sister couldn't go to Uni because my family couldn't afford it and we fell in that awkward barrier within the grants system. I had to wait 2 years before going to Uni for the system to change.

Yes, there are a hell of a lot more graduates, largely thanks to the 50% initiative, and this a problem with the education system, rather than being one of its triumphs. Why create more graduates when you don't have jobs for them, especially when this means changing the status of various perfectly good institutions offering vocational qualifications to universities? Degrees are academic qualifications, and very much not the sort of thing 50% of the population should want to do - look at how large numbers of people don't go for the course at all. And access is of course great, but it should help and encourage people to do degrees who are ideal for university but couldn't or wouldn't otherwise go, rather than just making it easier across the board. The current system has lead to degrees being devalued, and they've become seemingly pointless in many cases.

The failure of the comprehensive system? How is this? Grades are going up year on year... which I presume is why you said grade inflation. WHich I don't agree with either. It's better because there are more money in schools, more activities, some fantastic schemes for schools, the new academies are fantastic; doing shit loads more vocational subjects....

Well, there's quite a lot of evidence for grade inflation. First I'll note that grades go up every year. Either this is because exams are getting easier, or people are getting better at them. Now looking at some particular examples:

 

GCSE:

- Physics: Have a look at this paper. Note how question 3 requires no knowledge of anything; the diagram may as well have names of magical creatures and the structure of the question would remain intact. Even on the higher tier, question 26 requires no knowledge of physics and is in fact a fairly simple exercise in arithmetic.

- Biology: In comparsion to past papers, my exam involved questions such as "Why is drinking bad for you?"; I was given no marks for giving an accurate description of the physiological effects of alcohol on the brain and liver.

- Languages: The oral sections of these papers usually involve a list of potential questions which is given to teachers, allowing them to encourage candidates to draw up answers to each question in advance and learn them by rote, making the exam a test of memory.

- English literature: I had to do a paper with an essay along the lines of "Write what Tybalt is thinking after he sees Romeo at the masked ball." That's not literary criticism, it's just a comprehension test, and a poorly imagined one at that.

 

A-level:

- The need to introduce the A* grade (as huge numbers of candidates previously got all As).

- The introduction of the Cambridge Pre-U qualification as a more finely graded alternative to A-levels.

- The papers are marked according to schemes, with no tolerance for deviance from the accepted answers; furthermore, the markers often have little knowledge of the subject they mark. I've seen an advert recruiting Edexcel markers which didn't seem to require any specific qualifications. Furthermore, Salters for OCR Chemistry involves spelling and grammar marks that use criteria such as "answer must consist of at least two sentences". Anyone joining these sentences with a semi-colon is penalised. On the other hand, this means that it can often be easy to excel simply by learning the past markschemes and repeating the key phrases in the exam.

- Maths: level 5 and 6 modules on the OCR MEI course have recently been removed and incorporated into level 4; complex numbers are no longer a part of the single maths syllabus; the S1 paper consists largely of parroting definitions and carrying out tests without investigation of the mechanics behind them.

- General Studies: This subject is a joke. Look at this AS question (number 42). What the hell?

 

I really don't think it's people getting cleverer or schools doing better. In fact, grade inflation goes some way to covering up just how badly schools are performing.

[Guy]

Its why I'm glad I happened to choose a career path that means I won't do exams at university. All mine is hands on modelling, level building or essay writing.

 

Score. I don't plan to take any exams on my intended career path either. Exams generate super stress and are responsible for 9% of book-related suicides. Okay, I made that up. It's actually only 7%.

 

Now the part of my post for everyone.

 

Exams may very well be outdated or flawed, but is there an alternative to testing someone's accumulated knowledge and the application of it under time controlled circumstances?

[Raining_again]

Yeah same here. It happens every other day for me. And yeah, sometimes at a desk with a pen in my hand.

 

Old school man, old school!

[dwarf]

Bloody hell one minute you're saying it's not fair yet later you say eductaion is being devalued. Make up your mind.

 

I will say that please don't use one example a s case to say EDUCUCATION IS SHIT. Because that's just ridiculous and you know it. There will always be examples of bad shit happening in EVERYTHING!

 

 

 

How are A Levels devalued? And I think it is great that more creative subjects are taken more seriously. I'd be positively pissed off I wanted to work with textiles. I did a drama GCSE is that a load of bollocks as well?

 

.

 

I practice that has been in place for yonks? (Yes I used the word yonks). I agree though, exams are bollocks full stop in my opinion, but I think that across the board - driving tests included. But It's not as simple as saying hmm I don't like them so lets scrap them or change them like that. These things take greats amount of time and diplomacy. MANY people would disagree with us about this. Some people would successfully argue that the time limit is a very useful tool, especially in the real life work enviroment which surely no one disagrees with the idea that education needs to replicate real life more.

 

 

 

Well then you're going to be even more fucking distraught when the blues get in because the matter will get very worse. I will say though that many many many people in higher education feel the opposite. That there are still too many. Peopl generally in this country feel there too many foreigners. And tonight, the tories were the most active in saying we need to stop it and cap it, it's getting ridiculous. I thought UKIP were speaking for a while.....

 

 

 

I'm sorry but you can't pull out one country as a comparison. Especially Japan who discipline in everything is absolutely renowned. Completely unfair. Fact is we do have degrees which are more academic and some which are more practical, why do we need to give them different names? And degrees are elitist? Fuck me. Did you know the University system before labour got in?!!

 

 

 

I agree.

 

 

 

NO THEY ARE NOT!!! If there wasn't this system I wouldn't have gone to University. Thousands, probably hundreds of thousands of people wouldn't be able to go to University and it would be the elitist system you seem to hate. But it needs to be paid for, we can't spunk money on everyone going to University. Be realistic. Where will that money come from? Fact is, people who really can't afford it get it all paid for anyway. The debt we get at Uni has no bearing whatsoever on our credit rating, we have to pay it when we earn over a certain amount at a level which will be pretty much unnoticed. Also, if it was all free imagine how many more would go to University? People go and fuck it up the wall as it is. People should go to University is they really want to go.

 

 

 

This is complete fabrication. Only the tories are proposing cuts to education. I thought so anyway, I may be wrong on that.

 

 

 

I'm truly staggered by this... I really can't believe what you're saying. Of course it should be means tested. Do you not think wealthy parents DO DONATE INCOME TO THEIR CHILD!?!? Of course they do, that's why poorer families get benefits. You're not a socialist are you? Rich kids with wealthy families will get looked after by their families; if they don't, then this can be declared and means testing is not put in place. But I strongly believe in a system of the rich help the poor, I just do. A kid from a poor family needs more help, how can you not see this?

 

I will add that I do believe in taxing the rich more and the rich paying more for stuff like education. I will also add that I would be declared one of these rich, on a personal note I would be WAY better off under the blues, personally. I fall in to a higher tax bracket. But more than that I believe we need to close the class gap as much as possible and this is the only way to do that. Sometimes I get angry, and declare it's unfair with the best of them, but ultimately I believe in it.

Too much text.

 

Education is poor, my mate confirms it.

[Fierce_LiNk]

I've done many things in work that ive done in college, on a set timescale, so honestly its definitely required.

 

And it teaches the importance of deadlines...you might get a second chance in uni but by fuck you don't in the real world

 

I agree with you there. It helps you deal with urgency.

 

There's arguments both for and against time limits. I think I sit in the yes to a time limit camp, although perhaps they should make the time limit an hour or so longer. I remember sitting some Maths exams in the past thinking "shit shit shit, need to get to the end of the paper. Am I going to have enough time to check it through?! I don't know..."

 

Maybe make the time limit longer, but at the same time make it optional for people to leave as and when they finish. I think most teenagers are capable of standing up quietly and leaving the room unassisted.

 

But then, when you extend the time limit, what's the point if having one in the first place if there isn't any urgency? Haha. Yes, I have countered myself.

[dazzybee]

Yes, there are a hell of a lot more graduates, largely thanks to the 50% initiative, and this a problem with the education system, rather than being one of its triumphs. Why create more graduates when you don't have jobs for them, especially when this means changing the status of various perfectly good institutions offering vocational qualifications to universities? Degrees are academic qualifications, and very much not the sort of thing 50% of the population should want to do - look at how large numbers of people don't go for the course at all. And access is of course great, but it should help and encourage people to do degrees who are ideal for university but couldn't or wouldn't otherwise go, rather than just making it easier across the board. The current system has lead to degrees being devalued, and they've become seemingly pointless in many cases.

 

Whether they go to University or not there still won't be the jobs. They are two completely separate issues. But what University does is give people better ammunition (in theory) to get jobs when they become available.

 

And what the new (he says, it's over 10 years old now ) system does is give EVERYONE the SAME OPPORTUNITY for that University education.

 

 

I'm sorry, I'm not going to bother with the rest. Giving a couple of arbitrary examples does not form a solid argument.

[dwarf]

I agree with you there. It helps you deal with urgency.

 

There's arguments both for and against time limits. I think I sit in the yes to a time limit camp, although perhaps they should make the time limit an hour or so longer. I remember sitting some Maths exams in the past thinking "shit shit shit, need to get to the end of the paper. Am I going to have enough time to check it through?! I don't know..."

 

Maybe make the time limit longer, but at the same time make it optional for people to leave as and when they finish. I think most teenagers are capable of standing up quietly and leaving the room unassisted.

 

But then, when you extend the time limit, what's the point if having one in the first place if there isn't any urgency? Haha. Yes, I have countered myself.

You can't really make some leave early as people have things called mobile phones. The time just needs to be extended long enough so that people don't have to worry about checking the clock.

[Raining_again]

I agree with you there. It helps you deal with urgency.

 

There's arguments both for and against time limits. I think I sit in the yes to a time limit camp, although perhaps they should make the time limit an hour or so longer. I remember sitting some Maths exams in the past thinking "shit shit shit, need to get to the end of the paper. Am I going to have enough time to check it through?! I don't know..."

 

Maybe make the time limit longer, but at the same time make it optional for people to leave as and when they finish. I think most teenagers are capable of standing up quietly and leaving the room unassisted.

 

But then, when you extend the time limit, what's the point if having one in the first place if there isn't any urgency? Haha. Yes, I have countered myself.

 

Both of your points are correct, it has to be a fair time limit as it should be in a working environment anyway!

[Fierce_LiNk]

I don't know nearly as much about primary; from what I do understand it's at the very least a good deal better than Secondary is at the moment. So you may well be right.

 

If you ever get the chance to go into a Primary School, do it. I think you'll be surprised by some of the things going on there. It's a very creative learning environment. Generally, I think the children just seem more valued there and the community of the schools seems that bit more tighter. When you go into high school and University/College, I think so many of the kids/teenagers feel so lost and overwhelmed. I don't think it's a coincidence that they feel lost and uncared about when the schools can contain over a thousand or so pupils.

 

You can't really make some leave early as people have things called mobile phones. The time just needs to be extended long enough so that people don't have to worry about checking the clock.

 

Course you can. I don't know how it worked with you, but all mobile phones were turned off/put into silent mode at the beginning of the exam and were collected by the teachers and put into boxes (for the smaller exams where there was only one class in the room). For the big halls with exams, the phones were placed into bags and the bags were kept at the back of the room. Our school was quite rigid with this. In a hall, there were half a dozen or so members of staff. Simply put, you would have to be Jason Bourne to have cheated in those exams.

 

Both of your points are correct, it has to be a fair time limit as it should be in a working environment anyway!

 

Thank you, your excellency.

[The fish]

Back on topic, I've just seen a poll putting Nick Clegg at 61%. I know it's a reactionary swing, but omgwtfbbq. :awesome:

[Coolness Bears]

In my school we spent whole lessons being taught how to draw our own Pokemon.

 

I may not be a clever man but I can now draw a deformed octopus with 9 legs squirting mashed potato from its eyes.

 

If that's not education for the real world I don't know what is.

[tapedeck]

If you ever get the chance to go into a Primary School, do it. I think you'll be surprised by some of the things going on there. It's a very creative learning environment.

 

Facilitation ftw.

There are so many things wrong with our adopted 'traditional Victorian' education format which needs absolving as soon as possible into a facilitative means of learning wrapped in its pre-existing structured environment.

 

As a careers adviser who is seeing so many unemployed graduates we are seeing that a lot of graduates aren't under qualified, they are, infact, under-skilled. This previous focus on education has diminished what has always been a factor in any form of employment: skills. Now, you could argue (as many politicians have) that Higher Education gives you a high end skill set which employers value. Yet, in reality skills gained from HE pale in comparison to real world application. Throw in that general consensus that degrees are losing their 'prestige' and you've got far larger problems than just a recovering economy effecting graduate employment.

Certainly Labour have looked at this and if you look at their focus it has now shifted away from HE and is now focused on Apprenticeships (even proposing that by 2020 all young people will be legally entitled to an apprenticeship) and skills.

 

The careers service changes in August in the UK and you will see that skills are a huge focus - we're already seeing massive funding cuts from adult evening courses with English/Maths/ICT being the core forms of learning being available for adults from 2010 onwards.

I guess the three R's (with some computer literacy) are the immediate focus for adults who are under-skilled. (Alongside job centre 'employment' courses).

 

Britain is in danger of being massively under-skilled. This is where major problems in education are.

Edited April 15, 2010 by tapedeck

[Guy]

In my school we spent whole lessons being taught how to draw our own Pokemon.

 

I may not be a clever man but I can now draw a deformed octopus with 9 legs squirting mashed potato from its eyes.

 

If that's not education for the real world I don't know what is.

 

I am sending my eventual children to where ever it is you studied. I want pictures like that on my fridge.

[dwarf]

 

 

Course you can. I don't know how it worked with you, but all mobile phones were turned off/put into silent mode at the beginning of the exam and were collected by the teachers and put into boxes (for the smaller exams where there was only one class in the room). For the big halls with exams, the phones were placed into bags and the bags were kept at the back of the room. Our school was quite rigid with this. In a hall, there were half a dozen or so members of staff. Simply put, you would have to be Jason Bourne to have cheated in those exams.

Jason Bourne, or you could just have more than one phone.

 

The reason Nick Clegg has done well is because he's been put on an even level with the other parties now. It seems much more like a 3 horse race than a 2 horse race now. I wouldn't be overly surprised if Lib Dem got voted in. I think Clegg would shit himself in shock, and panick when sitting in no.10

Edited April 15, 2010 by dwarf

[danny]

Im not going to comment on the education system as i dont know enough about it apart from both labour and the torys failed in respects of teaching me to spell.

But tonight i went to see my sister and her mates at the pub they all went to uni and all have degrees. But apart from one who is a teacher none of the others have a job that really requires a degree.

Do to many people go to uni. And are there to many people who go for the wrong reasons. Ie for a party rather than to truey help them in there career.

Theres nothing wrong with just having a skilled job, which requires hand skills etc.

Before anyone kicks off im not saying people soudnt be allowed to go to uni. Just do to many people go? There still has to be plumbers, mechanics, brickys, joiners, welders etc.

[dwarf]

Im not going to comment on X as i dont know enough about it

Since when did that stop you?

[tapedeck]

I blame Hollyoaks.

 

For everything.

[Fierce_LiNk]

Facilitation ftw.

There are so many things wrong with our adopted 'traditional Victorian' education format which needs absolving as soon as possible into a facilitative means of learning wrapped in its pre-existing structured environment.

 

As a careers adviser who is seeing so many unemployed graduates we are seeing that a lot of graduates aren't under qualified, they are, infact, under-skilled. This previous focus on education has diminished what has always been a factor in any form of employment: skills. Now, you could argue (as many politicians have) that Higher Education gives you a high end skill set which employers value. Yet, in reality skills gained from HE pale in comparison to real world application. Throw in that general consensus that degrees are losing their 'prestige' and you've got far larger problems than just a recovering economy effecting graduate employment.

Certainly Labour have looked at this and if you look at their focus it has now shifted away from HE and is now focused on Apprenticeships (even proposing that by 2020 all young people will be legally entitled to an apprenticeship) and skills.

 

The careers service changes in August in the UK and you will see that skills are a huge focus - we're already seeing massive funding cuts from adult evening courses with English/Maths/ICT being the core forms of learning being available for adults from 2010 onwards.

I guess the three R's (with some computer literacy) are the immediate focus for adults who are under-skilled. (Alongside job centre 'employment' courses).

 

Britain is in danger of being massively under-skilled. This is where major problems in education are.

 

 

There's been a focus in the last few years (in Secondary Education) where the emphasis has been on teaching pupils transferable skills that can be used in many different circumstances. It works in Primary, especially with "Topic Based" learning where you focus on one subject, say every term, across the curriculum. So, one school I worked with recently researched types of technology available in Japan, then we would look at how technology has evolved in Japan (Science and History), then we would compare Japan with the rest of the World (Geography). Finally, we would work on paragraphing, listing and how to convert notes into prose in Literacy. So, it's very creative, and you're using so many different skills at once. This can then be applied in more than one area. At the end of it, they had researched something and had then written up some great work about what they had found.

 

As interesting as it is reading novels in Secondary School, sometimes teachers forget why we read books in the first place. Yes, it's entertainment, but usually there are "real world issues" in the novels that can apply to most of our lives. One of my favourite films as a kid was Stand By Me. What I loved about it was that it dealt with the themes of friendship and coming-of-age, but it did this in a certain way. Now, you can learn more from a 2 hour long film than you might do from a series of 10 lessons looking at something else. I think they need to be taught how things can be applied to life and the outside world. Give them reasons why they are doing what they are doing. That way they'll take things in more and they'll understand what they're trying to do.

 

Jason Bourne, or you could just have more than one phone.

 

If you had a phone, you could try cheating. But, there's only a select few that would try. If I was in a room filled with people, with exam invigilators on patrol, I wouldn't think it was worth it. Purely because there would be a very large risk that I would have my exam paper torn up and given a zero if I was caught. The risks outweigh the gains.

[Daft]

Bloody hell one minute you're saying it's not fair yet later you say eductaion is being devalued. Make up your mind.

 

I will say that please don't use one example a s case to say EDUCUCATION IS SHIT. Because that's just ridiculous and you know it. There will always be examples of bad shit happening in EVERYTHING!

 

Cuts are being made. They are even proposing to get rid of three year courses in favour of two year speed courses (If you want I can find you the source).

 

How are A Levels devalued? And I think it is great that more creative subjects are taken more seriously. I'd be positively pissed off I wanted to work with textiles. I did a drama GCSE is that a load of bollocks as well?

 

Supergrunch explained grade inflation. Actually textiles was a terrible example.

 

 

I practice that has been in place for yonks? (Yes I used the word yonks). I agree though, exams are bollocks full stop in my opinion, but I think that across the board - driving tests included. But It's not as simple as saying hmm I don't like them so lets scrap them or change them like that. These things take greats amount of time and diplomacy. MANY people would disagree with us about this. Some people would successfully argue that the time limit is a very useful tool, especially in the real life work enviroment which surely no one disagrees with the idea that education needs to replicate real life more.

 

Just because something has been in place for yonks doesn't mean its right. If you want to know where exams originate from you'll find they're a hangover from the requirements of students predominantly at Oxbridge as they were prepared to report back from the colonies.

 

I said "Exams should have word limits and non-restrictive time limits". There is still a time limit, as there is in real life.

 

Like I said in my later post, exams do not test academic merit which is what they are there for.

 

 

Well then you're going to be even more fucking distraught when the blues get in because the matter will get very worse. I will say though that many many many people in higher education feel the opposite. That there are still too many. Peopl generally in this country feel there too many foreigners. And tonight, the tories were the most active in saying we need to stop it and cap it, it's getting ridiculous. I thought UKIP were speaking for a while.....

 

People in this country feel there are too many foreigners? If you believe The Daily Mail then yeah. But it isn't true and these students are helping support universities. Any argument against them is futile.

 

I'm not sure why you think I would prefer the Tories. I have a problem with whoever fucks with the system to its detriment.

 

 

I'm sorry but you can't pull out one country as a comparison. Especially Japan who discipline in everything is absolutely renowned. Completely unfair. Fact is we do have degrees which are more academic and some which are more practical, why do we need to give them different names? And degrees are elitist? Fuck me. Did you know the University system before labour got in?!!

 

We used to havbe polytechnics and technical colleges. That system made much more sense than lumping everything together. It's not just Japan either. I believe Sweden has a similar system an Eenuh mentioned there was something similar in Belgium, although I may be misremembering.

 

No, I said the ideal of a degree is elitist. It shouldn't be a necessary requirement for a good job. I know a lot of people, and I'm sure a lot of people here, would say they got a degree because it would help them get a good job - but the emphasis would be on the authority of the degree and not it's content. How many people's degrees relate to their job?

 

 

NO THEY ARE NOT!!! If there wasn't this system I wouldn't have gone to University. Thousands, probably hundreds of thousands of people wouldn't be able to go to University and it would be the elitist system you seem to hate. But it needs to be paid for, we can't spunk money on everyone going to University. Be realistic. Where will that money come from? Fact is, people who really can't afford it get it all paid for anyway. The debt we get at Uni has no bearing whatsoever on our credit rating, we have to pay it when we earn over a certain amount at a level which will be pretty much unnoticed. Also, if it was all free imagine how many more would go to University? People go and fuck it up the wall as it is. People should go to University is they really want to go.

 

Hold on. I can barely afford to go to university. I know a couple people who want to go to university and can't afford it and I know one person who is debating whether it is worth the money. I know this is annecdotal evidence, but honestly, I wonder if it's worth the money - I get 8 contact hours a week, about 24 weeks over the year and I pay over £3000. That's a lot. And don't fool yourself, the cap has been lifted, those fees will go up. I've seen my fees go up while I've been at uni.

 

 

This is complete fabrication. Only the tories are proposing cuts to education. I thought so anyway, I may be wrong on that.

 

Yes, it's a TOTAL fabrication. /Sarcasm

 

I'm truly staggered by this... I really can't believe what you're saying. Of course it should be means tested. Do you not think wealthy parents DO DONATE INCOME TO THEIR CHILD!?!? Of course they do, that's why poorer families get benefits. You're not a socialist are you? Rich kids with wealthy families will get looked after by their families; if they don't, then this can be declared and means testing is not put in place. But I strongly believe in a system of the rich help the poor, I just do. A kid from a poor family needs more help, how can you not see this?

 

My mother doesn't help me at all. You're not even giving children from more well of backgrounds the choice. In your mind rich people must help rich people? I understand, and am all for, the rich helping the poor but to do it in such a manner is completely the wrong way to go about it. How can you not see this? You're just reinforcing this financial rift.

 

 

 

Anyway, I'm tired of this. I have to live this every day at university. At the end of the day the problems are symptomatic of a system of government that cannot deal with growing liberties.

Edited April 15, 2010 by Daft

[Eenuh]

 

We used to havbe polytechnics and technical colleges. That system made much more sense than lumping everything together. It's not just Japan either. I believe Sweden has a similar system an Eenuh mentioned there was something similar in Belgium, although I may be misremembering.

 

You remember right. We have universities for the academic courses (doctors, engineers, psychology, philosophy, history and all that) and then there's colleges or what we call "hogeschool" (basically high school in English heh) where you get courses like arts, architecture, business, teacher training, ITC etc. The second one (which I am in) gives you a much more personal course, with small classes and lectures (so not hundreds of people lumped together in a room), which I think is needed for these courses.