COVID-19 (The artist formally known as Coronavirus)

[Fierce_LiNk]

I don't think I've posted in this thread until now, as I've mostly put my comments on other platforms. But, I just want to say how utterly useless, crap, reckless and irresponsible this current government is. They have got so many things wrong and their most recent message (The Boris Speech as it will be forever known) is an utter shambles. A combination of that message + VE Day has led to the disintegration of the lockdown and I am convinced that we will see a growing rise in cases over the next few weeks, probably longer. The messaging hasn't been strong or clear enough to the public and I fear that the processes are not being taken as seriously as they should be.

Couple that with the fact that they are so apparently desperate to reopen schools when the data doesn't seem to support that. The R rate has risen, and this is before The Boris Speech, so it most likely is higher after the latest relaxation of measures. 

It's so frustrating. Everything seems to heading towards a second peak within the next few months. 

[drahkon]

On 5/16/2020 at 9:16 PM, Fierce_LiNk said:

The R rate has risen, and this is before The Boris Speech, so it most likely is higher after the latest relaxation of measures. 

I don't follow news outside of Germany so I can't say anything about what's going on in your country, but just wanted to chime in to say that the R rate is not the sole indicator of what the situation is like.

We've been having an R value of something between 0.8 and 1.1 in the past two weeks, fluctuating randomly it seemed. Everybody went crazy when it was at 1.1, saying "this is the start of a new wave", etc.. Now the official number of new infections in Germany today is 342, an insanely low number compared to the last two months.

Yes, it's a good tool to "measure" the current situation a little but it's not something people should focus on.

(don't take this as me thinking you don't take into account other values and information, @Fierce_LiNk; it's just something I noticed everywhere in recent times and your sentence just gave me an excuse to say something about it )

On 5/16/2020 at 9:16 PM, Fierce_LiNk said:

But, I just want to say how utterly useless, crap, reckless and irresponsible this current government is.

I feel for you.
Our government has been generally doing a very good job. As every other country we started enforcing measures too late, but what has been done since the start is nothing short of incredible. The goal to "flatten the curve" has been reached and I really hope we take this time of "slowly approaching normality" to prepare for a possible second wave (I do think that a second wave is inevitable given how the virus works/spreads and the fact that a vaccination is very far away).

The last seven days have been wonderful for me personally. As I mentioned before, I decided to relax my own rules for self-isolation a bit, i.e. I started to meet some of my friends again. This weekend I took a train ride to visit my mom and some other friends in my home town. It was lovely.
It was only this morning that I realized how much I really needed that.

 

Edited May 18, 2020 by drahkon

[EEVILMURRAY]

On 16/05/2020 at 8:16 PM, Fierce_LiNk said:

It's so frustrating. Everything seems to heading towards a second peak within the next few months. 

And the great thing about that, is that we're going to get the blame. It's not ineptitude of the government for failing to get their shit together, flip-flopping on what they've been saying/doing and unable to sit down properly because of the absolute shafting future Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer has been giving them, but *our* fault for not doing what they "asked" and not being able to reach their five goals or whatever.

I got myself tested last night. My brother and his partner (who works in a care home I think) both got tested and were confirmed to have had it a coupla weeks ago, she had some symptoms, my brother had none except he said he had lost his sense of taste. My taste went over the weekend and I've got a weird pain at the back/under my tongue, so thought I'd play it safe and get my test on with the missus. Should get results in next coupla days, but I'm not worried.

On the radio today they're added loss of taste/smell to the list of potential signs, so my family are trendsetters.

EDIT: Came back as negative, which is nice.

Edited May 19, 2020 by EEVILMURRAY

[Glen-i]

Anyone watching the daily briefing? The media are going to town with the Cummings questions. (As they should)

Of course, normal Tory policy of saying he did nothing wrong and there certainly isn't a case of "the rules don't apply to us".

Official government policy seems to be "If you followed lockdown procedure, you clearly hate your family" Sorry @Dcubed. Tories say that Glen hates you.

If he doesn't resign by Wednesday, I'm eagerly looking forward to PMQ's.

Edited May 23, 2020 by Glen-i

[Ashley]

3 hours ago, Glen-i said:

If he doesn't resign by Wednesday, I'm eagerly looking forward to PMQ's.

No PMQs on Wednesday as they're on recess. The fourth since the election in December for those keeping track.

And if the haunted pencil has his ways by the time they're back in just under 2 weeks Boris' braying mob will be back to shout loudly rather than answer questions.

[Dcubed]

Man I wish Charlie Brooker's Antiviral Wipe could've come out just two weeks later, just to catch today's viral spread...

Edited May 25, 2020 by Dcubed

[Ashley]

The Twitter account that keeps on giving:

 

[drahkon]

Official numbers from our city/region (around 500k inhabitants):

30 currently infected.
Two months ago it was over 1000.

Hoping that people will keep doing what they're doing and get this number down to 0.
Unreported cases are obviously an issue (and will be for a long time) but still...It's great to see that all the measures taken are having a significant effect.

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by drahkon

[Glen-i]

My word, Hancock did not like that question from Peston during the daily briefing. Cut him off so fast, you'd swear he was a samurai!

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Glen-i

[Fierce_LiNk]

On 18/05/2020 at 12:17 PM, drahkon said:

I don't follow news outside of Germany so I can't say anything about what's going on in your country, but just wanted to chime in to say that the R rate is not the sole indicator of what the situation is like.

We've been having an R value of something between 0.8 and 1.1 in the past two weeks, fluctuating randomly it seemed. Everybody went crazy when it was at 1.1, saying "this is the start of a new wave", etc.. Now the official number of new infections in Germany today is 342, an insanely low number compared to the last two month

The R rate isn't the sole indicator, but it's quite important in the UK's case when you think about capacity (Germany is able to cope with a larger R rate than the UK due to capacity for beds, equipment, etc) and it's also important when you couple that in with the recent Government changes. The "unlimited exercise" and travel thing has led to a bit of a free-for-all and it is much more relaxed now than it was when the lockdown was stricter. It's unknown whether or not this will lead to a rise in cases, but there's a good chance that we'll hit the second wave sooner than we think. Germany is able to cope with a higher R rate than us due to their healthcare provision. There will be a slight rise when things reopen, which is inevitable since you have more people moving around, which accounts for Germany's R-rate increasing after coming out of lockdown/opening up the lockdown. My concern is that the UK is opening up too many things in a short space of time and without really looking at the evidence if this is the right thing to do. We had around 4,000 new cases today...that is still too high, in my opinion. I don't have trust in the Government to manage this effectively.

The recent stuff about Cummings is just awful and depressing. The man is a liar and Johnson is not only weak for not getting rid of him, but he is also showing that he isn't really in charge and cannot lead with Cummings there alongside him. Cummings is the real Prime Minister of the UK. His lateness to the same conference that he called (which is completely out of the norm and, according to code, should not have been called in the first place) was disgusting and it showed nothing but contempt and a total lack of respect for the people. No apology, a rehearsed story that was over-detailed to the point where he talked himself into trouble and, actually, made himself look weak in the process. Pathetic man.

[Will]

The Cummings thing is totally ridiculous. Even if he can wriggle through having done anything technically illegal there is no way they can say he complied with the spirit of the rules - which people following is the only thing that will keep it from descending into chaos. The fact the tories (or increasingly, just Boris and the inner circle) are willing to keep him on and seemingly defend what he did to the bitter end does not send a good message at all. I can imagine many people in the UK will just start to ignore the advice given which could be disastrous as things start to open up a bit.

On the positive side at least things are opening up. The numbers are under control so it seems right to test what happens with a more relaxed approach. If people can just be a little sensible and be ready to control movements when necessary then I think things are on the right track in the UK.

[Glen-i]

9 point swing from Conservative to Labour. That's horrendous! (But oh so yummy!)

Even the Daily Star is mocking them!

I like how the mask doesn't have eye holes.

[Pestneb]

I'm just glad Labour seem to be looking ready to take the reigns... when is the next GE though? :/

 

[Ashley]

6 minutes ago, Pestneb said:

I'm just glad Labour seem to be looking ready to take the reigns... when is the next GE though? :/

 

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it's next year. 

[Fierce_LiNk]

2 hours ago, Ashley said:

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it's next year. 

It's becoming an annual event, these days. 

Hearing a lot of people are sceptical of this "NHS" tracking app that is on the horizon. What is everyone's opinion on this? I'm dubious because of the privacy issues with data that surround it.

[Will]

There are definitely some issues with the privacy they should address before they roll it out fully - and should have been done before the trials really. If you allow groups, especially the government, to overlook these things then it sets you down a bad path and should be stopped.

That being said, the reality of the privacy issues is that they know some random codes you've generated and some other random codes of people you've come into contact with. Given the general competence levels of the people who have access to this, I wouldn't be particularly worried about them doing anything that could harm me with the data.

In theory, it's a great idea to have it, but I don't think people will use it as intended as it does require some level of self-diagnosis and self-imposed quarantine. Given how people have behaved so far I think a lot of people would quietly ignore anything that meant they may have to stay at home longer or multiple times. Combined with other initiatives and traditional contact tracing it will probably help bring numbers down and isolate clusters, but it won't be a magic bullet.

[Dcubed]

So I have an interesting question for you guys... Now that lockdown is being eased (arguably way too early; and against expert advice), will you guys actually go ahead and start visiting friends and family now? (Assuming that you weren't already disregarding the lockdown rules beforehand anyway).

[Ashley]

51 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

So I have an interesting question for you guys... Now that lockdown is being eased (arguably way too early; and against expert advice), will you guys actually go ahead and start visiting friends and family now? (Assuming that you weren't already disregarding the lockdown rules beforehand anyway).

Coincidentally today is 3 months since I last saw any friends.

I'm seeing one tomorrow. I did consider maybe going down to London in a few weeks to see others (as I'm currently in Birmingham because I gave up my place to go on my year-long two week travel around the world Brazil and Argentina) but I'll see. Might give it a few weeks to see how things are going.

Most of my friends however aren't in London any more (either left permanently or gone back home for the pandemic) so I think I'm wanting to go just because I want to go as opposed to it really being something worthwhile, if that makes sense.

[Mandalore]

Waiting to hear what the updated Welsh rules will be, but it sounds like it'll still be limited to 'local area' even if you can meet more people outside. I was hoping to visit my brothers in Cardiff, but it's not worth risking a fine over.

[Grazza]

50 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

So I have an interesting question for you guys... Now that lockdown is being eased (arguably way too early; and against expert advice), will you guys actually go ahead and start visiting friends and family now? (Assuming that you weren't already disregarding the lockdown rules beforehand anyway).

 

My attitude has always been to take the virus seriously regardless of what the Government says.  I believe they didn't take it seriously enough in the first place, then got the message across very clearly with the lockdown, and now want to relax it without any particularly good reason other than the economy (which is not to be sniffed at, I admit).  I guess what I'm saying is that I stay cautious without necessarily believing anyone.  So I would visit family, yes, but also make sure I stay physically distant from them, and assume I might be bringing Covid-19 in on my hands etc. 

 

To me, social distancing is the very core measure, and I think it's crazy to lessen that at the moment.  And good hygiene, of course, but everyone should practice that anyway.  Until this virus is somehow banished, I'm going to continue behaving like everyone else has got it and I might have it myself.  I'm not terrified, I just think it's the sensible thing to do until we know more about it.

[Happenstance]

I don’t see my routine changing much. I’m still furloughed so not going to work and wasn’t planning on going out to meet people yet. Most I’ll do is go sit in my sisters garden mid-June for her birthday.

I’ll be installing the app when it’s available. To be honest I think the need for it trumps (god that word is ruined) any worry I might have had over privacy.

[Ashley]

9 minutes ago, Grazza said:

My attitude has always been to take the virus seriously regardless of what the Government says.  I believe they didn't take it seriously enough in the first place, then got the message across very clearly with the lockdown, and now want to relax it without any particularly good reason other than the economy (which is not to be sniffed at, I admit).  I guess what I'm saying is that I stay cautious without necessarily believing anyone.  So I would visit family, yes, but also make sure I stay physically distant from them, and assume I might be bringing Covid-19 in on my hands etc. 

To me, social distancing is the very core measure, and I think it's crazy to lessen that at the moment.  And good hygiene, of course, but everyone should practice that anyway.  Until this virus is somehow banished, I'm going to continue behaving like everyone else has got it and I might have it myself.  I'm not terrified, I just think it's the sensible thing to do until we know more about it.

Yeah as much as I want to go to London and see people thinking about the practicalities of it is a different matter.

I think I could find a train from Brum to London that is reasonably quiet (middle of a weekday kind of thing) and then I get to London and what...get the tube? I know others are, but it just seems like I'm potentially putting myself at risk to see some people for a few hours. And I'd either need to do a day trip (which is feasible) or find a place to stay over night.

It's one of those things I would like to do, but probably won't end up doing it for now.

[Will]

1 hour ago, Dcubed said:

So I have an interesting question for you guys... Now that lockdown is being eased (arguably way too early; and against expert advice), will you guys actually go ahead and start visiting friends and family now? (Assuming that you weren't already disregarding the lockdown rules beforehand anyway).

I would. To me, it's all about being as careful as you can be without letting it completely ruin your life. If I'm working at home, not going shopping as much and avoiding anywhere crowded then I've already massively reduced any contact I have with people. I'd rather see people and start getting back to normal than wait around even longer for some unknown point in the future that things may or may not happen. If not now then when do you start moving forward?

[Beast]

52 minutes ago, will' said:

I would. To me, it's all about being as careful as you can be without letting it completely ruin your life. If I'm working at home, not going shopping as much and avoiding anywhere crowded then I've already massively reduced any contact I have with people. I'd rather see people and start getting back to normal than wait around even longer for some unknown point in the future that things may or may not happen. If not now then when do you start moving forward?

I agree with this.

I'm seeing someone tomorrow but we are keeping a distance away and won't be near each other. I'm wearing my face mask and bringing my hand sanitiser, still. It's like someone has already said, even though I don't have it, I'm keeping the mindset that I'm bringing Covid on so I won't be touching anyone or anything.

I think we need to start going back to normal. Although personally, I think it's too soon, things are going to be opening as normal again in two weeks. We have to ease ourselves back into society again. 

[Mandalore]

I'm going back to work on Monday, I've not got much confidence my employer is doing things correctly though. They sent an illiterate Covid-19 Protocol letter out to everyone, it had the companies Spanish address on the footer. They clearly just Google translated it and haven't bothered doing a risk assessment themselves based on Welsh Government advice.

They are insisting on face masks. As far as I know, Welsh Government guidance says these are not mandatory and only recommended in medical settings. It has some weird line about ventilation and air conditioning that makes no sense. 

Quote

Ventilation: we recommend refresh air at least twice per day and any time this can be possible

Air conditioners: there is not evidences about the risk assessment for the use air condition in office. Our machines are correctly maintained, we recommend reducing the use, avoid the lower temperature, in order to avoid the simple cold and be more expose to the virus. This point can be reviewed base on possible new study or publication

And the temperature measurement rule sounds daft. If I go out for lunch and catch it, I'm not going to be showing symptoms by the time I get back to work.

Quote

All employees must measure the body temperature twice per day (in entrance and before the exit) using the infrared contactless thermometer in reception, if the employees are going outside to any shop or other premises during the lunch they must repeat the measurement on their return.