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Metroid Prime 4 (Switch)

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It’s tough to please everyone though - I really hope that they do use dual analogue controls. 

 

I would be interested to see if they try a multiplayer mode too, could be interesting as long as it’s not too the disadvantage of the single player.

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Yeah, I was wondering how the controls would work in this game. Was thinking a separate joy con scheme would work best, similar to the controls in Prime 3 and the updated Prime Trilogy on Wii. But that would only really work when played on the TV. So there’d need to be a GameCube style control scheme for playing in handheld mode. I assume there’ll be a choice. 

Edited by Dog-amoto

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Put me in Dual Analogue camp. With some caveats, none of that look spring shit. That was probably the hardest bit to get to grips with on the GameCube for me. 

Motion controls worked but I’m just so over them really. I’m not opposed to them being an option for those that prefer but, I certainly don’t prefer. 

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Metroid Prime is one of my favourite games but it would've been improved with proper dual stick controls and less reliance on lock-on. I'm hoping they take a leaf from the recent Doom and integrate Samus' movement abilities into the combat more, so you can seamlessly transition in and out to keep battles flowing. Couldn't really do that with the morph ball/screw attack in the trilogy.

Oops, pretty much said this in the thread already.

Edited by dwarf

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Yeah, no "traditional dual stick" controls for me please. Doom has confirmed for me I can't use them. Motion controls, Gamecube controls, or N64 style FPS controls.

Edited by Sméagol

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I’m also in camp “non dual controls”. But heaps of younger gamers (PS1 generation and younger) have been born and raised with controls schemes that I’ve never came to grips with. So there’s a big chance that I need to get used to them someday anyway ;)

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Doom on switch might not be a proper indication you’re unable to use traditional dual stick controls, especially comparing to Metroid Prime. Metroid is a slower more methodical type of combat, and Doom is high speed high intensity twitch combat. Also (I only did portable mode) Doom on Switch was very hard for me to play compared to on PS4 with a more proper controller. 

Though I suspect on the Switch I would be able to play fine using the TV and a pro controller, so if you have used that method and still find it to be a no go, then you’re probably right. 

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I recently tried Doom on a friend's Switch using the comfort grip and thought it was great on the TV and just about playable in handheld mode. I'd only want to play Prime 4 on the TV.

Have to say I'm surprised by the amount of single-stick supporters here. It's so archaic and limiting.

I agree with @Nolan that Prime is slower, and benefits from downtime to add to the sense of exploration (rather than just being a sequence of arenas that need clearing, a la Quake/DOOM), but surely by the fourth game it's time for the series to take some risks? The last thing I want is a cover-based system, but if the game is restricted by a single-stick set-up and cover doesn't feature at all, then you'll just be circling and strafing away from enemies again, impeded by a camera that prevents skillful movement/positioning possibilities. With dual sticks you immediately raise the skill-ceiling.

All I'm saying is that DOOM has done the most interesting things with FPS movement, and Metroid has loads of potential in its existing mechanics to innovate in that area too. Whether you retain the slow, methodical style or a fast-pace evasive/aggressive style, I'm open to hearing ideas. As things stand, I hope Namco goes for something ballsy and fast-paced, and runs with some of the emergent, open-ended design choices Nintendo made with Odyssey and BotW. A visually updated Prime game would be disappointing to me.

Other suggestions:

- Get rid of the traditional four-beam hand-cannon and add some sort of Half Life gravity-gun upgrade (which would allow you to manipulate physics, elemental features in the environment, build temporary cover, slide doors up and down to trap enemies etc - that way it's a weapon and a puzzle-solving tool). Possibly add a hacking tool to use against space-pirate technology.

- Make the planet(s) a logically consistent environment. The trilogy compartmentalises the planets into discrete rooms with blast doors, which robs you of any sense that you were the first person to explore the area. That's fine for colonised areas/settlements, but it would be possible to have connecting areas of the world comprise of natural features like trees and rock  - make them movable/destructible to reveal new paths. Obviously that makes it harder to mask load times, but you'd still be left with the core Metroidvania design ethos.

- Seasonal/weather changes to areas to make backtracking more interesting. 

- Wildlife that isn't hostile to the player.

 

///

Of course, it's easy for a person with no background in game design to demand all this.

Edited by dwarf
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2 hours ago, Nolan said:

Doom on switch might not be a proper indication you’re unable to use traditional dual stick controls, especially comparing to Metroid Prime. Metroid is a slower more methodical type of combat, and Doom is high speed high intensity twitch combat. Also (I only did portable mode) Doom on Switch was very hard for me to play compared to on PS4 with a more proper controller. 

Though I suspect on the Switch I would be able to play fine using the TV and a pro controller, so if you have used that method and still find it to be a no go, then you’re probably right. 

On the contrary, I think it is. Despite the controls, Doom was a very enjoyable experience for me, since "not being able to aim" rarely felt like a handicap, in single player and on normal difficulty. For a few reasons. The most important reason is that Doom, in contrast to the average FPS game, puts a huge emphasis on movement. It's as much a platformer as it is an FPS game. In fact, I'd say movement is much more important than being able to aim. This a things it has in common with the Metroid Prime games. While the default controls were shit for aiming for someone like me, they were excellent for movement. The problem comes when enemies come into play. In Doom, the average enemy gets bigger and bigger, and behave more predictable. A lot of enemies like to get in your face, which ironically, is usually where you want them. And the bigger they are, the bigger a target they become, which obviously helps when you can't aim. And lastly: melee attacks. Why shoot when you can simply crack some skulls open. I almost never used guns on imps and most zombies, and even hell razers and possessed soldiers were often beaten to death, depending on the circumstances.

In the Metroid Prime games, while it obviously has its share of huge enemies, the average enemy you will encounter remains small, there are more enemies compared to Doom that like to stay at a distance and shoot you, and more of them are airborn. In other words, being able to aim is more important in Metroid Prime than it is in Doom. And you can't punch something in an emergency. The only difference to its benefit, and maybe its only saving grace, is the lock on feature. With motion controls, I wouldn't be needing it, with dual stick controls, I can't imagine being able to play the game without it.

@dwarf, I don't see why single stick is seen as limiting. While I love (well implemented) motion controls, mouse and keyboard remains superior. I have never felt the need for analogue movement. There are only 4 directions I want to move in, and only at 2 speeds at most. And in Doom in particular there's never even a reason to walk. I tried using left-handed controls in Doom, but this isn't the same as N64 controls (plus it has its own quirks). My right thumb just isn't trained for delicate stick control, and never will be. I don't want to and simply can't use the right stick for anything more involving than camera movement. This is also why I'm most likely not getting Wolfenstein for Switch, despite having enjoyed Doom. Wolfenstein is not a platformer.

Edited by Sméagol
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Definitely siding with old-school single stick, Metroid Prime style.

When I tried to play the XBox Arcade version of Banjo-Tooie, I actually couldn't beat the final boss, because they changed the shooting controls to dual stick and I kept dying from the bloody gas because I could never hit Grunty. Way to ruin my favourite N64 game, guys.

So, single stick is the minimum I require to even consider getting Metroid Prime. Of course, Gyro option is much preferred.

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Dual stick controls gets my vote. I hated the controls for Metroid Prime series. It's one of the reasons why I don't care for the games. The Wii version of the trilogy didn't help matters as I don't care for motion controls, either. Just give me the standard controls that most first person games have used on consoles for over 2 generations and i'll be a happy chappy.

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22 hours ago, Sméagol said:

On the contrary, I think it is. Despite the controls, Doom was a very enjoyable experience for me, since "not being able to aim" rarely felt like a handicap, in single player and on normal difficulty. For a few reasons. The most important reason is that Doom, in contrast to the average FPS game, puts a huge emphasis on movement. It's as much a platformer as it is an FPS game. In fact, I'd say movement is much more important than being able to aim. This a things it has in common with the Metroid Prime games. While the default controls were shit for aiming for someone like me, they were excellent for movement. The problem comes when enemies come into play. In Doom, the average enemy gets bigger and bigger, and behave more predictable. A lot of enemies like to get in your face, which ironically, is usually where you want them. And the bigger they are, the bigger a target they become, which obviously helps when you can't aim. And lastly: melee attacks. Why shoot when you can simply crack some skulls open. I almost never used guns on imps and most zombies, and even hell razers and possessed soldiers were often beaten to death, depending on the circumstances.

In the Metroid Prime games, while it obviously has its share of huge enemies, the average enemy you will encounter remains small, there are more enemies compared to Doom that like to stay at a distance and shoot you, and more of them are airborn. In other words, being able to aim is more important in Metroid Prime than it is in Doom. And you can't punch something in an emergency. The only difference to its benefit, and maybe its only saving grace, is the lock on feature. With motion controls, I wouldn't be needing it, with dual stick controls, I can't imagine being able to play the game without it.

@dwarf, I don't see why single stick is seen as limiting. While I love (well implemented) motion controls, mouse and keyboard remains superior. I have never felt the need for analogue movement. There are only 4 directions I want to move in, and only at 2 speeds at most. And in Doom in particular there's never even a reason to walk. I tried using left-handed controls in Doom, but this isn't the same as N64 controls (plus it has its own quirks). My right thumb just isn't trained for delicate stick control, and never will be. I don't want to and simply can't use the right stick for anything more involving than camera movement. This is also why I'm most likely not getting Wolfenstein for Switch, despite having enjoyed Doom. Wolfenstein is not a platformer.

Single-stick is limiting because it gives you a crap turning circle, makes it difficult to target enemies who are just behind you or up in your grill, and it prevents you from aiming independently of your direction of travel - negating player expression. It sucks dick, in short. Dual-stick controls are a genre standard for good reason.

Also everything you said regarding DOOM - those things were meticulously designed for the purpose of rewarding aggression, so there's nothing accidental about the size of the enemies, the utility of the shotgun, or the melee system that grants you health bonuses. The enemies in Prime 4 could be designed in a similar way for a similar system that suits the Switch controls, and it would have the added benefit of being designed from the ground up (rather than ported as an afterthought, as in the case of DOOM). Why should Samus not have a shotgun beam or a melee attack? Aiming at distant enemies with dual-sticks poses a fun extra challenge and is more satisfying than the alternative, namely the lock-on 'win' button that takes the task of aiming out of your hands and restricts your options to either spamming fire or charging shots. They could add varying degrees of auto-aim for reasons of difficulty (and accessibility for disabled gamers) to compensate for the less adequate control inputs on Switch. Players of all abilities would then be catered for, and single-stick luddites would have a reasonable middle ground option i.e. heavy auto aim or a lock-on feature.

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On 13/02/2018 at 8:55 AM, Glen-i said:

Definitely siding with old-school single stick, Metroid Prime style.

When I tried to play the XBox Arcade version of Banjo-Tooie, I actually couldn't beat the final boss, because they changed the shooting controls to dual stick and I kept dying from the bloody gas because I could never hit Grunty. Way to ruin my favourite N64 game, guys.

So, single stick is the minimum I require to even consider getting Metroid Prime. Of course, Gyro option is much preferred.

I wouldn't base your entire opinion on emulated N64 controls. The N64 analogue stick is nigh on impossible to emulate properly on modern pads, loads of games suffer from ridiculous stick sensitivity. They did a much better with Perfect Dark, I wouldn't want to go back to N64 controls after playing it on XBLA.

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3 minutes ago, Mandalore said:

I wouldn't base your entire opinion on emulated N64 controls. The N64 analogue stick is nigh on impossible to emulate properly on modern pads, loads of games suffer from ridiculous stick sensitivity. They did a much better with Perfect Dark, I wouldn't want to go back to N64 controls after playing it on XBLA.

I played Perfect Dark XBox as well, still doesn't gel with me. I just can't get my head around it, so those controls would no doubt be a detriment to my enjoyment of Prime.

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A new LinkedIn listing has warranted Eurogamer updating their original article on Bandai Namco Singapore taking on the project.

Bandai Namco's main studio, in Tokyo, seems to have also been working on the game up to this point, but will now take the reins as the leads on the project from those in Singapore, whom will mostly move on to another Bandai Namco project for the Switch, whereas it seems some might be relocated to Tokyo to continue working on the game.

The new LinkedIn listings also seem to suggest that the game will feature online capabilities, but to what extent is not yet known.

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Bloody hell.

I commend their honesty and integrity even though the news is really disappointing. Almost two years of development wasted. Oh well. Surely we have to see the game Retro's been working on before now this year.

Bamco not up to the job then? Always thought it was a strange choice of developer for this.

*insert the Miyamoto quote about delayed games*

Edited by Ronnie
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Also, the LAST thing I expected to see...

Screen-Shot-2019-01-25-at-1-27-00-pm.jpg

Figured it would be the other way around. Speaks to their honesty and dedication to quality I guess.

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Did they ever say who was actually working on it? There were rumours that it was being developed by Bandai Namco but I can't remember if they were ever confirmed. I don't mind waiting a bit longer for a new Metroid game, especially if it means it's done right, but it's definitely a blow to hear that development hasn't been going well. 

Hopefully Retro are finishing up on whatever they've been working on (be that Star Fox GP or Donkey Kong) and that it is scheduled for release later this year, would make sense that they weren't able to develop Prime 4 to begin with because they were working on something else and so Nintendo sought out another development team, but if Retro have just been working on nothing then it has me a bit worried for the potential of Prime 4.

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PURE EXHUBARANTJOY!!!!

 

The game has been delayed by around 3-5 years and I couldn’t be happier!!! 

 

Fuck Namco! We’re finally getting the real deal! This game is gonna be FUCKING AMAZING now! :bouncy:

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Kinda ironic considering Retro Studios had problems with development of Metroid Prime 1.

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One more thing I think we can say with certainty too.

 

Metroid Prime 4 will not release on the current iteration of Switch.

 

With development restarting this late, there’s no way that it’ll arrive before the current Switch gets succeeded.

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The 3DS is what eight years old and didn’t Nintendo talk about keeping the Switch around for a very long time? If they release a new model I suspect it’ll be a PS4 Pro / Xbox X iterative hump where games will work on either model. 

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Well, that was a shock, but I’m definitely a fan of the honesty. I can’t remember the last time I remember a delay being announced for a game with such genuine appreciation for how it would disappoint fans — and what makes this even more noteworthy to me is that it’s not even like Metroid is one of Nintendo’s best-selling IPs. 

I’m definitely curious about whether or not we’ll actually get confirmation that Bandai Namco was working on the game, and how this effects what Retro have supposedly been working on since Tropical Freeze. Does this mean that whatever they were working on is near completion? Was there even anything that they were actually actively working on for the past few years? Hopefully we’ll get some answers at E3. 

I hope this doesn’t effect any hopes of a Metroid Prime Trilogy arriving on Switch in the near future — it would be a great way to appease fans for the time being.

Also, I think I’m with @Dcubed in that we might not see the game until the next iteration of the Switch, and I can certainly foresee this game serving as the centrepiece of that potential iteration’s marketing campaign/launch. 

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