Wii U General Discussion

[Jonnas]

Cmon man, is that how you want to be? Did someone call in the Kavalry?

 

So Kav makes a point, I don't get it, he calls in you? You then use this thread to refer to something elsewhere? DO YOU SEE HOW YOU ARE DESTROYING ACTUAL ONTOPIC CONVERSATION BY NOT HAVING ANY.

 

I'd say that was a quite reasonable and civil post from Zechs, no need to be hostile yourself (Also, Zechs wasn't even addressing or mentioning Kav's post).

[Kav]

Haha, what have I woken up to here..? The "kavalry", haha, I like that!

 

I was just pointing out as @dazzybee mentioned, when the Wii was the best-selling console people went on like sales didn't matter and it was just about the games... even though the Wii had tonnes of great games which was ignored too oddly.

Yet come the WiiU's so far dismal performance sales is all of a sudden the bigger picture (it's always the bigger picture) although the WiiU is beating it's opposition when it comes to the quality of it's games currently.

[Rummy]

Currently yes, but it has had a jump of a year as opposed to weeks. Where do we see them all being in a year's time? My concern is that in the long run, it will be totally dwarfed by the others and subsequently abandoned by both developers and consumers. Where does that then leave all of us owners?

[Andyliini]

Exactly what @kav82 said. I still remember the time around 2007 or 2008 when people all over were saying something like: "sales don't matter, it's all about games, and Nintendo's games are terrible".

 

Now it seems to be other way around, that sales magically matter when it puts Nintendo in a bad light. Seems like there's not other way around it, people want Nintendo to fail for some strange, perhaps even personal, reasons.

 

Enough of off-topic then.

I would like to get my Wii U back from repairs already. They promised to give me a new one after they couldn't fix my original console. Two weeks now after I sent it. Hopefully it will come this week, I want to play my Mario.

[Clownferret]

From my perspective, the demand is pretty poor when you think about the IPs and brand names attached. Maybe we should be looking into why the PS4 has sold so well despite not having many games.

 

Graphics Whores!

[Kaepora_Gaebora]

Currently yes, but it has had a jump of a year as opposed to weeks. Where do we see them all being in a year's time? My concern is that in the long run, it will be totally dwarfed by the others and subsequently abandoned by both developers and consumers. Where does that then leave all of us owners?

 

Hoping they give us N64 'ambassador' games for picking up the console early!

 

Seriously though, it would leave me annoyed and out of pocket...but still buying their next home console :p

[Serebii]

That's the thing...it's the power sucking people in. At the moment, the focus of gaming is on cinematic interactive experiences over pure gameplay. Wii U doesn't provide that so it is being shunned. Of course there are like hundreds of other reasons the Wii U is doing badly, but this is one I'm seeing more and more. Actually saw someone say Nintendo should make a game like The Last of Us the other day.

 

Besides, the question is momentum. Outside of the UK, the Wii U had a decent launch, with 3m sold in the first month, but it flatlined. Until we get to March, we can't completely say that the PS4 and Xbox One are total successes. For all we know, they'll flatline. Unlikely, sure, but anything is possible.

 

I mean hell, look at how fast Xbox One titles that aren't CoD dropped in the UK Top 40.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Serebii

[Pestneb]

Thing is, X1 and PS4 are competing against each other.

WiiU, isn't. I read part fo a really dumb thread last night with people saying WiiU isn't even pretending to be a next gen console - I obviously don't have to explain how dumb that sounded, but perhaps a lack of eloquence is the problem there. The WiiU isn't a competitor to the PS4 or X1 imo, anymore than the gaming PC is, or smartphones.

 

I don't think Nintendo want to. I was thinking this however.

Higher graphical capacity = higher storage required - afaik the PS4 and X1 don't use higher capacity discs - 25 to 50 Gb, right? and both are over twice as powerful...

I don't know how much of their 25 gb they were using, but the WiiU, from what I can ascertain, is in the region of half to a quarter of their power.

It also uses a proprietary disc with the same capacity as the X1 and PS4. So surely its games can have greater content on one disc, albeit at the cost of graphical prowess.

So maybe later this gen we shall see games for the PS4 and X1 with install disc and play discs? Or just prettier games with less content to actually play with?

Or do games just use nowhere near that 25/50Gb anyway?

[Sheikah]

It's not the power that is sucking people in. You can have the most powerful console in the world but if people know it won't get any games on account of devs not really supporting it then no one but enthusiasts would buy it.

 

The reason the PS4 is doing so well is because it has a bright future. It is exciting and is expecting the best of the best in terms of multiformat releases, and out of the three consoles it will probably run them the best. People are buying into PS4 because they know it will deliver. It's not about the usual launch fodder that comes with consoles; it's really short sighted to focus on this.

[Serebii]

Thing is, X1 and PS4 are competing against each other.

WiiU, isn't. I read part fo a really dumb thread last night with people saying WiiU isn't even pretending to be a next gen console - I obviously don't have to explain how dumb that sounded, but perhaps a lack of eloquence is the problem there. The WiiU isn't a competitor to the PS4 or X1 imo, anymore than the gaming PC is, or smartphones.

 

I don't think Nintendo want to. I was thinking this however.

Higher graphical capacity = higher storage required - afaik the PS4 and X1 don't use higher capacity discs - 25 to 50 Gb, right? and both are over twice as powerful...

I don't know how much of their 25 gb they were using, but the WiiU, from what I can ascertain, is in the region of half to a quarter of their power.

It also uses a proprietary disc with the same capacity as the X1 and PS4. So surely its games can have greater content on one disc, albeit at the cost of graphical prowess.

So maybe later this gen we shall see games for the PS4 and X1 with install disc and play discs? Or just prettier games with less content to actually play with?

Or do games just use nowhere near that 25/50Gb anyway?

Developers don't really compress as much anymore as they don't feel the need to. Nintendo do, however. They're the masters of compression.

 

PS4 and Xbox One games are around 20GB minimum due to this.

 

It's not the power that is sucking people in. You can have the most powerful console in the world but if people know it won't get any games on account of devs not really supporting it then no one but enthusiasts would buy it.

 

The reason the PS4 is doing so well is because it has a bright future. It is exciting and is expecting the best of the best in terms of multiformat releases, and out of the three consoles it will probably run them the best. People are buying into PS4 because they know it will deliver. It's not about the usual launch fodder that comes with consoles; it's really short sighted to focus on this.

I didn't mean to say that it was the only factor, but it was a core factor and you can't deny that. Yeah it has a bright future, but a lot of people don't buy consoles based on potential

 

That said, I've played a PS4 for a few hours round a friend's place and while it's slick, I just can't shake the feeling of it being generic. At the moment, not saying this is how it will always be, it just feels like a graphics card update. With new systems, I expect them to do new things, to warrant the purchase. I am likely to get one in a year or so, software lineup permitting, but at the moment I'm just not feeling it. Plus I hate the controller.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Serebii
Automerged Doublepost

[Rummy]

Exactly what @kav82 said. I still remember the time around 2007 or 2008 when people all over were saying something like: "sales don't matter, it's all about games, and Nintendo's games are terrible".

 

Now it seems to be other way around, that sales magically matter when it puts Nintendo in a bad light. Seems like there's not other way around it, people want Nintendo to fail for some strange, perhaps even personal, reasons.

 

Enough of off-topic then.

I would like to get my Wii U back from repairs already. They promised to give me a new one after they couldn't fix my original console. Two weeks now after I sent it. Hopefully it will come this week, I want to play my Mario.

 

I don't know if I've been misunderstood. I'm not saying it's just sales, or just games, I talk about a bigger picture that encompasses everything. Good console sales with no games - not a lot of good. Good games with little console sales - not a lot of good. We need both! The reason I think sales are getting focused on here is because we know they've got the good games, just need to get the install base up and get the support! I'm really keen to see how Watch Dogs'll sell on Wii U when it comes.

 

Out of interest, what was wrong with your Wii U for repairs? I've always found them to have quite a good turnaround on 3DS repairs - two weeks is dragging on a bit!

 

Thing is, X1 and PS4 are competing against each other.

WiiU, isn't. I read part fo a really dumb thread last night with people saying WiiU isn't even pretending to be a next gen console - I obviously don't have to explain how dumb that sounded, but perhaps a lack of eloquence is the problem there. The WiiU isn't a competitor to the PS4 or X1 imo, anymore than the gaming PC is, or smartphones.

 

This is a point I've been thinking more and more recently - what if Nintendo don't really want to compete or be seen in that bracket? Dcubed's made an interesting thread in general about possibly staying/going PC+WiiU this gen instead. I personally don't foresee me getting any of the other consoles atm - I would like some of the bigger releases(like WatchDogs) on the Wii U but other than that what I really got it for was more quirky and unique games that you tend to get on Nintendo's consoles. That and all the promised indie support, which I've yet to see in a major way or along lines that appeal to me.

[dazzybee]

Does anyone remember a certain post made recently outlining the ridiculousness of an 'anti-Nintendo conspiracy'? :p

 

No. Enlighten us I was just highlighting a point made, not making a new one myself.

 

I do feel sales matter, but in the longer run, in a bigger picture. Of course, at this point looking at the picture of Wii compared to the picture of Wii U - the former looks better. I've had sales countlessly elsewhere, but it's important for as many people to own Wii Us for us to get other people to support and look at the Wii U as a viable and successful product. Ownership is sadly mostly tied to sales, as the main method of getting an indication of owned Wii U are sales.

 

Yeah, and we all want it to do really well, but at the same time, i think most people are realising the Wii U is going to struggle, so looking for the best alternative, it doing better than the gamecube is probably the best it can hope for so any increase is positive. I hope it's a case of small install base, but one which buys a lot of games. So sales and profits are still good, build up the services and create franchise masterpieces, learn from all the hideous mistakes for a better crack next time.

 

Tbh, I think Game are probably doing one of the better jobs for it on the high street. Again, coming back to relativity, that doesn't necessarily mean a lot.

 

They are, but they are a specialist gaming site so they should, but still not enough, Game should be for gamers, but it isn't, it seems more for the mass market and cod/fifa crowd; playing to the masses. Which is fine and completely understandable from a business perspective, but I think they should be a gaming shop for gamers and sell more retro games, merchandise, and show all companies etc.

 

I want to hope MK will be - but then I'll be interested to see the effects of SM3DW and The Mega Mario bundle on Wii U sales. Is MK more of a system seller than Mario platformers in recent times?

 

Yeah, has been for a long time. I always said they needed mario kart this christmas. Imagine a mario kart bundle for xmas? 3D mario isn't a huge huge seller; luckily they still make them. I just hope the game continues to sell throughout it's life. Which is probably will.

 

I still really want to see them deliver on their indies and 3rd parties support. All the promised tools/ports and nothing near what I expected coming through yet

 

It takes time, can't create game in weeks, I have no doubt 2014 will be huge for indie games on the Wii U (well across the board too). It'll be a good year - Mario Kart, Smash, Bayonetta 2, Donkey Kong, X, Yarn Yoshi, plus whatever they announce at E3, loads of indie games, a big push on virtual console, an improvement of all their online services and we're good to go

 

Haha, what have I woken up to here..? The "kavalry", haha, I like that!

 

I was just pointing out as @dazzybee mentioned, when the Wii was the best-selling console people went on like sales didn't matter and it was just about the games... even though the Wii had tonnes of great games which was ignored too oddly.

Yet come the WiiU's so far dismal performance sales is all of a sudden the bigger picture (it's always the bigger picture) although the WiiU is beating it's opposition when it comes to the quality of it's games currently.

 

The Wii U is also the best selling next gen console

Edited December 3, 2013 by dazzybee
Automerged Doublepost

[Fused King]

I'd say that ever since NINTENDO chose to win over a different market more openly, starting with the Wii and DS, they now probably see it as a necessity to keep the company going.

 

Along with the occasional triple A title (which they also try to have us look at as somewhat of a bridge title, i.e. Super Mario 3D World) and the occasional 3rd party 'for the gamers' game, one of NINTENDO's biggest efforts now seems to be to pursue new markets, new people who'd they like to see become gamers....on their consoles and handhelds.

But not only this. They also seem to think that, in line with Yamauchi's philosophy which Iwata has gotten quite attached to now, NINTENDO needs to create new and interesting ways to play games. Be unique, with a controller, with a service, with, what it usually boils down to, something people will either be blown away by or not understand and just won't pick up.

 

So, NINTENDO will sometimes strike gold and other times create confusion, but creating new and interesting tech. which caters to both casuals and more avid gamers is not without casualties and, most importantly, creates a certain image.

Edited December 3, 2013 by Fused King

[dazzybee]

Hmm, I think that WAS a tactic, but I think they realise they may not be there like they were and may need to refocus. Iwata already said 2014 would be for the more serious gamer; I think Nintendo realise these are the people they should never have lost in the first place!

[liger05]

Actually saw someone say Nintendo should make a game like The Last of Us the other day.

 

And what exactly would be wrong with this? Nobody is saying Nintendo to stop doing what they do best but a broader range of Nintendo games would only be a good thing. There are plenty of studios Nintendo could get to make different games than what we usually see from Nintendo.

 

I hope it's a case of small install base, but one which buys a lot of games. So sales and profits are still good, build up the services and create franchise masterpieces, learn from all the hideous mistakes for a better crack next time.

 

Thats a decent point and whats worrying is the small install base isnt buying lots of games. There seems to be a pattern with each release bombing. Why are wii u owners not buying games? Console traded in? People were sick of the drought and lost interest packing console away? I dont know what is but it needs looking at as for whatever reason wii u software performs well below what it should.

Edited December 3, 2013 by liger05

[Ganepark32]

And what exactly would be wrong with this? Nobody is saying Nintendo to stop doing what they do best but a broader range of Nintendo games would only be a good thing. There are plenty of studios Nintendo could get to make different games than what we usually see from Nintendo.

 

Completely agree. While Nintendo don't necessarily need to go out and copy what Naughty Dog have done with The Last of Us, I do think they should be taking note of the way in which narrative in games has moved on beyond what Nintendo is putting out, which does seem to be stuck largely in the N64 era (and I personally think this none more evidence than in Skyward Sword where they really showed how far behind they are in being able to provide a strong narrative /opinion).

 

That doesn't mean I think Nintendo should go down the interactive movie avenue, ala Heavy Rain or Beyond: Two Souls, but there is definitely scope for them to consider pushing something a bit more meaningful story wise in a new IP while continuing to provide the content they already provide. If they don't want to do it in their Tokyo/Kyoto studios, they've got other studios they could hand it off to in the US. Or set up a new studio aimed solely at providing that kind of experience (there's enough game devs looking for work at the moment what with all the studios that went under last generation).

 

The lack of this kind of content from Nintendo themselves isn't a reason for the Wii U not selling well, but the lack of it from 3rd parties is, whether that is what's available now or more importantly what's coming down the line. The reason for the PS4 selling well is because we've seen announcements of this kind of stuff coming either in the next couple of months or further down the line so people are investing now knowing that they'll get that content eventually.

 

So whether Nintendo need to go out and talk to 3rd parties directly about getting that content or whether they need to lead by example is a big factor that needs resolving for them in my eyes. While they may still be at the forefront of aspects of gaming, mostly gameplay (although this isn't always the case), there is no arguing that they've been left well behind in other areas and they should be taking note of what is happening around them, particularly from Western devs like CD Projekt with The Witcher, Naughty Dog with The Last of Us or whoever, and looking at how they can use elements which make those games so good, narrative or otherwise, in their own games.

[Zechs Merquise]

Firstly @kav82 is spot on, when the Wii was annihilating the competition and was sold out week in, week out - 'it wasn't about sales figures'. When the PS4 is out in front, it's 'all about the sales figures'.

 

I lost count of the number of times I heard the phrase 'I don't play sales figures, I play games'. Now Sony has the upper hand, those same people aren't parroting that mantra any more!

 

Secondly, I said it with the Wii and I've said it for the PS4 - it's all about price and marketing.

 

The average consumer is tempted by a product's buzz and its price point. Both the Wii and the PS4 had an immense buzz, and both had just the right price point for their target audience. But we've all gone over this a thousand times before, it's the same discussion week in week out.

 

But if anything the PS4 launch has proved one thing - it's not about 'the games'. If it was people would have held out for a price drop and software worth buying. But they didn't, because the PS4 is hot property, it's been marketed perfectly and seems like a good deal - especially compared to the launch price of the 360 and PS3!

[Retro_Link]

Heck I'd even be happy if they took the F-Zero franchise and made it into a Mass Effect style space adventure!

 

Especially as they don't have any plans to use it for a new game in the racing series.

 

Something very story driven would definitely be welcome.

[tapedeck]

Miyamoto once said:

 

Too many powerful consoles can't coexist. It's like having only ferocious dinosaurs. They might fight and hasten their own extinction.

 

The Wii brand is like a herbivore. Nintendo plods along eating leaves, stopping to look at the rainbow seeing things as 'rosey' whereas SONY and MS consoles focus predominantly on competition, the 'coolest' thing and marketing to you in intense mannerisms through roman soldiers fighting wars, futuristic soldiers fighting wars, marines fighting wars, racers in racing wars, footballers at war with each other. And then Knack...who seems to be at war...

 

Anyway, I digress.

In an industry where marketing and image are everything, Nintendo can be extremely naive but that's kinda what makes them likeable. Their machines have soul and their games have joy. They don't feel like consumerist pieces of plastic. When I own a Nintendo system, no matter what the sales were/are like, I kinda see it as a rare toy housing so many memories. that's why people keep gameboys in glass cases and NES consoles in mint condition.

 

Just like folk buy SONY and Microsoft systems for future third party games - gamers and families buy Nintendo consoles for the potential within the house of Mario.

[Retro_Link]

^ I actually bought a PS3 for the exclusives, and would predominantly buy a PS4 for the same reason. Great third party games like Tomb Raider that come along are just a bonus.

 

I very much agree with you on the feelings of owning a Nintendo console though.

 

Kyle Bosman describes them as a dopey elephant, just plodding along doing their own thing

 

I am getting more an more ready to own a Wii U, the want to experience a bit of that Nintendo magic again in new titles is definitely getting there.

[Kav]

Kyle Bosman is awesome, I love watching The Final Bosman every week, it's such a refreshing show to watch!

 

His take on Nintendo is spot on!

[Sheikah]

Firstly @kav82 is spot on, when the Wii was annihilating the competition and was sold out week in, week out - 'it wasn't about sales figures'. When the PS4 is out in front, it's 'all about the sales figures'.

 

I lost count of the number of times I heard the phrase 'I don't play sales figures, I play games'. Now Sony has the upper hand, those same people aren't parroting that mantra any more!

 

Secondly, I said it with the Wii and I've said it for the PS4 - it's all about price and marketing.

 

The average consumer is tempted by a product's buzz and its price point. Both the Wii and the PS4 had an immense buzz, and both had just the right price point for their target audience. But we've all gone over this a thousand times before, it's the same discussion week in week out.

 

But if anything the PS4 launch has proved one thing - it's not about 'the games'. If it was people would have held out for a price drop and software worth buying. But they didn't, because the PS4 is hot property, it's been marketed perfectly and seems like a good deal - especially compared to the launch price of the 360 and PS3!

 

Those 'same people' probably don't exist, or at least not in any significant number. We all went out an bought a Wii and loved it. Many people turned away from the Wii when its support dwindled in the later years, and many more following the terrible choices they made with the Wii U.

 

It's weird, I thought everyone read that post about it being ridiculous to think there was an anti-Nintendo smear conspiracy going on, but people still seem to be acting like it exists. =/

[Andyliini]

@Rummy

 

Sorry, wasn't talking about you, I was talking about general tone of message boards back then and how it's changed until this day.

 

My Wii U had this very interesting little bug, that from time to time the connection between the console and the GamePad was cut for about 3 seconds a time. After that, it recovered the signal. It was very random, I still don't know what caused it. They tried repairing it twice, nothing. Now they promised me a new console, but it's taking ages for it to arrive. I need to contact them again tomorrow, if it doesn't arrive.

[Josh64]

That happens to me weirdly, but only when playing Just Dance (so thankfully it's not really a problem!)

 

Maybe it's just certain software?

 

And I don't know about you guys but the awful bug that makes the whole system freeze and do that awful noise hasn't happened in ages now! Maybe it's finally gone!

[lostmario]

Guys, If you want to discuss sales figures post here

 

If you want to argue, take it to PM.

 

Everyone