Dog-amoto Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Absolutely sickening. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22630303 A man has been killed in a machete attack and two suspects shot by police in Woolwich, south-east London. Prime Minister David Cameron said there were "strong indications that it is a terrorist incident" and the UK would "never buckle" in the face of such attacks. Footage has emerged showing a man wielding a bloodied meat cleaver and making political statements. There are unconfirmed reports that the dead man was a soldier. Both French President Francois Hollande and MP Nick Raynsford said the dead man had been a soldier at Woolwich barracks. The footage shown on the ITV website shows a man, dressed in a grey hooded jacket, saying: "We must fight them as they fight us. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth." He added: "I apologise that women have had to witness this today, but in our land our women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove your government, they don't care about you." Home Secretary Theresa May has summoned a meeting of the government's emergency response committee Cobra. It is too soon to know exactly what happened. But what makes this completely different to any other violent attack is the fact that the prime minister asked the home secretary to convene a meeting of Whitehall's emergency response committee. Those meetings are not convened lightly. The fact is that all available accounts point towards this being a terrorist incident carried out by someone inspired by al-Qaeda's jihadist ideology. If that's the case it would be the first such incident leading to a death of someone other than the perpetrator since the London suicide bombings of 2005. So the first task for ministers will be to consider what implications the situation has for the public and national security. The official terrorism threat level is currently "substantial" - the third highest level - which means that an attack is "a strong possibility". If officials raise the level to "severe", that would mean they fear that another attack is highly likely. Read more from Dominic Mrs May said she had been briefed by the director general of Security Service MI5, Andrew Parker, and Metropolitan Police Commissioner Bernard Hogan-Howe on the "sickening and barbaric" attack. "It has been confirmed to me that a man has been brutally murdered," she said. "Two other men were shot by armed police and they are currently receiving treatment for their injuries." Speaking in Paris, Prime Minister David Cameron said there were "strong indications that this is a terrorist incident". He said Britain had faced terror attacks such as the one in Woolwich before, before adding: "We will never buckle in the face of it." Downing Street said Mr Cameron, who had been planning to stay in Paris overnight after meeting the French president, would be returning to the UK tonight. One witness, identified only as James, said two men had attacked another man, aged about 20, who was wearing a T-shirt of military charity Help for Heroes. "These two guys were crazed. They were just animals. They dragged him from the pavement and dumped his body in the middle of the road and left his body there," he told LBC radio. He said after the "horrendous" attack, the two men, who were also in their 20s, stood around, waving knives and a gun, and asked people to take pictures of them "as if they wanted to be on TV or something". "They were oblivious to anything, they were more worried about having their photo taken, running up and down the road," he said. The incident took place before many eyewitnesses Thomas, a witness who contacted the BBC, said: "I got there minutes after it happened because you could hear gunshots from Woolwich High Street. "Basically two men carried out an axe attack on a young army cadet walking along the street, by the looks of things the police responded and then shot them in front of the public, at the same time I couldn't really tell if the cadet was fatally or not hurt as police were crowded around him." Whitehall sources have told the BBC it is "a fair supposition" that the incident was a terrorist incident but police have not commented publicly on the suggestion. BBC political editor Nick Robinson said the police view is that the attack may have been filmed and footage may exist. According to senior Whitehall sources the people carrying out the attack were heard to say Allahu Akbar [God is Great], said our political editor. On Twitter, the Mayor of London Boris Johnson described the attack as a "sickening deluded and unforgivable act of violence". Buckingham Palace say the Queen is concerned at the news of the attack in Woolwich and is being kept informed. School lock-down Mr Raynsford, the Woolwich and Greenwich MP, said he had spoken to local police and understood a number of weapons had been seized at the scene including a gun, knives, and a machete. Scotland Yard said the initial attack happened in John Wilson Street, the A205, at 14:20 BST. Metropolitan Police Commander Simon Letchford said the two attackers were then shot by armed officers. He said: "Police were called to reports of an assault... where one man was being assaulted by two other men. A number of weapons were reportedly being used in the attack, and this included reports of a firearm. Head teacher David Dixon describes seeing a body in the street and hearing gunshots "Officers including local Greenwich officers arrived at the scene, and shortly after firearms officers arrived on the scene. "On their arrival at the scene they found a man, who was later pronounced dead.... "Two men, who we believe from early reports to have been carrying weapons, were shot by police. They have both been taken to separate London hospitals. They are receiving treatment for their injuries. "I can understand that this incident will cause community concerns and I would like to reiterate that we are investigating the circumstances." Meanwhile, the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) confirmed it had been informed. London Ambulance Service said two men had been taken to hospital - one by air ambulance - and one of them was a serious condition. David Dixon, a local head teacher, told the BBC News Channel he walked out of the school gates and saw a body lying in the road a short distance away. He then heard gunshots and instructed staff to lock all the gates of his school. The air ambulance landed in the playground and most of the children have now gone home, he said.
Ramar Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 The event is horrific. Just barbaric. There's a video on ITV news with one of the attackers talking to people. Read some truly disgusting and disturbing things on facebook tonight, led me to unfriend people. The fact a man has been murdered is being totally missed thanks to media outlets overstating it could be terror related.
Mr-Paul Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Absolutely horrifying. Some people are just vile. Thoughts are of course with the family of the man who lost his life. Although I'm not sure I agree with it being labelled a terrorist attack. It might have had religious motivations, but the fact is, a man was killed by another, brutally. If there weren't any religious motivations, it'd be just as tragic. The BBC's Nick Robinson (a journalist I respect usually) said he was "muslim looking". What is that exactly? And anyway, the guy in the video was a black man, not what they're trying to make you think when they say "muslim looking." The media really can generate a lot of hate sometimes.
Guy Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 That video of the guy speaking to the camera is pretty vulgar in itself. Glad they were shot. Assholes.
bob Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Absolutely horrifying. Some people are just vile. Thoughts are of course with the family of the man who lost his life. Although I'm not sure I agree with it being labelled a terrorist attack. It might have had religious motivations, but the fact is, a man was killed by another, brutally. If there weren't any religious motivations, it'd be just as tragic. The BBC's Nick Robinson (a journalist I respect usually) said he was "muslim looking". What is that exactly? And anyway, the guy in the video was a black man, not what they're trying to make you think when they say "muslim looking." The media really can generate a lot of hate sometimes. i do not like Nick Robinson, he is a dick. However, in this case, he was directly quoting a statement by someone else. Check his twitter.
Fierce_LiNk Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 So much arrogance behind this attack. Doing it in broad-daylight in a busy area and waiting around to be caught. It shows that an attack can take place at any time and anywhere. Thanks to social media, images of the attackers (including that vile video of one of them speaking) will be broadcast everywhere. It's sick. Genuinely angry at how people can do this.
Agent Gibbs Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Its utterly shocking and vile, i just don't know where to begin with this, i'm glad they were shot, i just wish that if they survive we still had the death penalty for them to face
Ramar Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Its utterly shocking and vile, i just don't know where to begin with this, i'm glad they were shot, i just wish that if they survive we still had the death penalty for them to face Is it not best to question them? If they die the police lose an opportunity to find out more information on the attack and any other potential attacks.
Jonnas Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Wow, I had seen the attack be reported on a Portuguese website, but the details were vague. This... It's abominable. These men slit another man's throat in broad daylight, literally asked for attention as a reward and they got it. Fuck. I certainly hope this isn't a terrorist attack. If it is, it's a sign that it might be the action of a larger group, and the first of several.
Rummy Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 (edited) So this is round the ends, so I've been seeing it all over facebook by friends since this afternoon. Saw the news at 6, where a lot of information wasn't actually known and there was a lot of speculation and heavily implications by the media. Then I fell asleep, and have actually just woken up to the news at 10, where they now have the video obtained by ITV and whatnot. Seems to be more information now. It's definitely vile and disgusting, I can't believe how anyone could do this. Especially in broad daylight. However incidents like this annoy me somewhat - as @Mr\-Paul said earlier; there was descriptions of the two men being 'muslim looking'. I didn't like that, especially now that I've seen that footage(I assume 'muslim looking' to be more looking like asian terrorists etc) and seeing that really...the guy seems like any other regular joe you might find on the street, especially down in woolwich. I saw a few people on facebook posting some comments based on the speculation of the media which hasn't turned out to be quite as accurate now - I hate how everyone starts jumping to conclusions all the time without solid information. There's also a weird thing people seem to have, of almost pointing out how close to home it is for them; and I find that peculiar. I don't know what it is, I just kinda don't get that; like they almost want to...not revel in the tragedy, but somehow belittle it as if it's related to them? I don't know if anyone will get what I mean tbh. Stuff like acting because they're on a train going through woolwich to get home this evening they'll somehow be inexplicably likely to die or something; despite the fact both men were shot and arrested. Stuff like that. Apparently the good ol' EDL are using it as an excuse to go out and about with 'feet on the street' in Woolwich - don't know if they actually have or not though. Edited May 22, 2013 by Rummy
Shorty Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 (edited) This whole thing is shocking and horrible sure, but more than that I just find it so bizarre. A guy, who doesn't look Asian at all to me (I know the two are not synonymous, I'm just joining some dots here to try and find some sense in a crazy situation), is claiming openly to cameras in a thick London accent that this is for his Muslim brethren, not running from the police but waiting for them to show up and eventually, 20 minutes later when armed response shows up, they get shot. Apparently they were even seen going up and down the road chanting Allah Akbar.... feels like this whole thing have been some idiot's plan to defame British Muslims.... Edited May 22, 2013 by Shorty
The fish Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Utterly crazy stuff. I'm curious as to their motives. It's shocking just how random the attack has.
Fierce_LiNk Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 This whole thing is shocking and horrible sure, but more than that I just find it so bizarre. A guy, who doesn't look Asian at all to me (I know the two are not synonymous, I'm just joining some dots here to try and find some sense in a crazy situation), is claiming openly to cameras in a thick London accent that this is for his Muslim brethren, not running from the police but waiting for them to show up and eventually, 20 minutes later when armed response shows up, they get shot. Apparently they were even seen going up and down the road chanting Allah Akbar.... feels like this whole thing have been some idiot's plan to defame British Muslims.... The man could be Somali, or he could be a convert. I don't think the police have said publicly what his ethnicity/nationality/place of origin was, yet. I'm not saying your post is wrong, but the more likely scenario is that these were two radicalised men who were trying to "make a stand or a statement" against the government. We'll probably find out more later, but I imagine this will be the gist of it. Of course, it does give British Muslims a bad name, because it just furthers the notion that Muslims are terrorists.
Rummy Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 The man could be Somali, or he could be a convert. I don't think the police have said publicly what his ethnicity/nationality/place of origin was, yet. I'm not saying your post is wrong, but the more likely scenario is that these were two radicalised men who were trying to "make a stand or a statement" against the government. We'll probably find out more later, but I imagine this will be the gist of it. Of course, it does give British Muslims a bad name, because it just furthers the notion that Muslims are terrorists. Tbh, he seems fairly Woolwich-esque to me. I see nothing about the man to differentiate him from many other people in the area. That's why I find all these muslim and terrorist comments, from before we saw him, so short sighted. Tbh I still see people talking about the muslim/terrorist angle; but he seems nothing out of the norm for the area. It's terrorism of sorts, but I think any association with islam in this is so stupid and naive.
Fierce_LiNk Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Tbh, he seems fairly Woolwich-esque to me. I see nothing about the man to differentiate him from many other people in the area. That's why I find all these muslim and terrorist comments, from before we saw him, so short sighted. Tbh I still see people talking about the muslim/terrorist angle; but he seems nothing out of the norm for the area. It's terrorism of sorts, but I think any association with islam in this is so stupid and naive. Normally, I'd agree with you. But, if this guy is shouting "Allah hu Akhbar" and other Islamic phrases like it has been claimed, then it's fairly likely that he has some sort of links to Islam. But yes, I also understand what you're saying. Normally I'd be with you on this one, but I can't shake the idea that these are two people who claim to be supporters of Islam/have links to it and are trying to make some sort of statement. It's shit, it tarnishes the image of humans as a whole, as well as Muslims, but it has unfortunately happened.
Platty Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 (edited) Rummy sir I know you don't like this but it is close to where I live and have lived all my life and is somewhere I go to a lot. Had dinner in Woolwich Monday with my friend who lives in the Arsenal and in fact only yesterday I drove along the road this happened on on my way home. On many occasions stood there to watch the marathon go by. I think it is that which makes it so surreal for me. I'm sitting here watching it on the news and am like this my area what the fuck, same with the riots. I usually get off the train at Woolwich late at night to get a bus home. Hmmm defo will re-think that. Just can't understand the motive. Fucked up man. That video of the bloke is sickening. Phone been going mad, facebook and twitter off the hook. Helicopter keeping me awake and those EDL pricks can do one, not helping things at all. Get out of my area. Let the police deal with what's happened not kettling you idiots. Edited May 22, 2013 by Platty
Rummy Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Normally, I'd agree with you. But, if this guy is shouting "Allah hu Akhbar" and other Islamic phrases like it has been claimed, then it's fairly likely that he has some sort of links to Islam. My issue with this, at the moment, is the if. There's currently no evidence of it bar the media's reportings, who also described him as 'muslim looking'. Of course, if it IS the case then yes there are islamic links - but that still doesn't mean much. They could just be a couple of nutters, it's not fair to blame the religion for idiots associating themselves with it and doing bad things. Rummy sir I know you don't like this but it is is close to where I live and have lived all my life and is somewhere I go to a lot. Had dinner in Woolwich Monday with my friend who lives in the Arsenal and in fact only yesterday I drove along the road this happened on on my way home. On many occasions stood there to watch the marathon go by. I think it is that which makes it so surreal for me. I'm sitting here watching it on the news and am like this my area what the fuck, same with the riots. I usually get off the train at Woolwich late at night to get a bus home. Hmmm defo will re-think that. Just can't understand the motive. Fucked up man. That video of the bloke is sickening. Phone been going mad, facebook and twitter off the hook. Helicopter keeping me awake and those EDL pricks can do one, not helping things at all. Get out of my area. Let the police deal with what's happened not kettling you idiots. I'm really just reserving judgement until we know more about the motives etc. Admittedly I don't go to woolwich much socially due to reputations it had when I was a teenager, but I still go through often and sometimes around there for work. Often spend time in nearby areas too, so it's just as close to home for me(as it was when they had the riots). As for getting off the train at night - what's changed? Woolwich has always had one of the worser reputations for the area, and implications of the current situation is that it was a targeted attack - which took place in the daytime. You're probably just as fine(or not fine) getting a bus home late from woolwich as before. It's like when 7/7 happened everyone said not to go on the trains the following days, but if anything that's the safest time!
Platty Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 (edited) Tbh, he seems fairly Woolwich-esque to me. I see nothing about the man to differentiate him from many other people in the area. That's why I find all these muslim and terrorist comments, from before we saw him, so short sighted. Tbh I still see people talking about the muslim/terrorist angle; but he seems nothing out of the norm for the area. It's terrorism of sorts, but I think any association with islam in this is so stupid and naive. Yeah he seems very Woolwich from the mobile video. Woolwich and Plumstead have a high muslim community, a lot of my close friends are muslim. There is a big somali community in Woolwich too. Many would have been born here as parents moved over decades ago. So he can easily have just been brain washed by someone, internet etc but does from the video appear to be linked with his beliefs in Islam. Sad times. Hopefully our area will rise up and show how good our mixed cross community actually is. Horrible to hear that the mosque is being attacked I'm really just reserving judgement until we know more about the motives etc. Admittedly I don't go to woolwich much socially due to reputations it had when I was a teenager, but I still go through often and sometimes around there for work. Often spend time in nearby areas too, so it's just as close to home for me(as it was when they had the riots). As for getting off the train at night - what's changed? Woolwich has always had one of the worser reputations for the area, and implications of the current situation is that it was a targeted attack - which took place in the daytime. You're probably just as fine(or not fine) getting a bus home late from woolwich as before. It's like when 7/7 happened everyone said not to go on the trains the following days, but if anything that's the safest time! What's changed is I would probably happily walk past someone like that guy. Now I will see someone with that profile and maybe cross the road. It's sad but that's what happens and how I feel right now? may feel differently in a few days. Will take me a while to feel safe standing at the bus stop in Woolwich past midnight again. Edited May 22, 2013 by Platty
Fierce_LiNk Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 My issue with this, at the moment, is the if. There's currently no evidence of it bar the media's reportings, who also described him as 'muslim looking'. Of course, if it IS the case then yes there are islamic links - but that still doesn't mean much. They could just be a couple of nutters, it's not fair to blame the religion for idiots associating themselves with it and doing bad things. I totally agree, it's not right to blame the whole religion based on a few people. One drop of oil in the ocean doesn't mean it's completely dirty. Either way, whether the people are Muslim or not, it's still disgusting that somebody has lost their life in this way.
Rummy Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 (edited) Man, just seeing about the trouble with EDL and the police there now. What a bunch of cretins - this is what annoys me! As you say, it's got a significant muslim community, but NONE of them deserve anything because of today's actions. We can't in any way draw that link between today's actions and the muslim community there. However a lot of them will be tarnished by the actions of the few and the ignorance of the many. This behavior, whilst not as brutal, is just as bad as that of the perpetrators of today's crime. EDIT: Not related, but a story from the week where the council banned displaying of St George's flag because 'muslims' would be offended. Decision actually not supported by some of the muslim community. Edited May 22, 2013 by Rummy
Platty Posted May 22, 2013 Posted May 22, 2013 Yep they just need to fuck off. They have all come down from Eltham and Bexley and are just stirring it up. What are they trying to do? The police have the two people involved, let them continue their investigation. EDL will only make things worse and raise tensions in the area between communities that generally get on.
Murr Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 Shit like this makes being brown, with a name of Omar, with a Muslim father really fucking hard. And I don't follow any religion... Oh well, *increase ignore assholes shield percentage by 20*, just when I thought the events of Boston had cooled down and I could lower it a bit. I really hate this extremist terrorism bullshit. My dad's side of the family in Mauritius are all Muslims, very strict too, following the rules of prayer, etc etc... It just... They couldn't ever be capable of anything like this, they genuinely are disgusted by the terrorism extremists do, they feel extremists are doing them no favors. And it's true they aren't. My cousin from Mauritius is worried about bringing his wife and daughter to the UK for my wedding in fear of how he'll be treated due to his faith, even though no one would know he is a Muslim, he's just fearful of the flat out racism he'd expect to be here due to the acts extremists commit. What a world.
Jimbob Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 I have no words for this, very shocked and disgusted about this. If people hate our soldiers (who have and are defending our freedom) and this country then i invite them to leave. Because i think that anyone who hate this country to the point that acts like this are committed (yes, the country has its flaws) should never be allowed to be here. Honestly, i'm really lost for words on this whole situation.
Rummy Posted May 23, 2013 Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) This may sound silly - but when does such an act become terrorism? Is it always terrorism? Is it because of the religious associations, or the extremity of the act? Is it because of the victim? Is this just a horrendous act, or is it terrorism? Word on the gentlemen from the videos, from what I can see in the media atm, is that he is british born, of nigerian descent; from a devout christian family but converted to islam in the early 2000s. Previously a student at university of greenwich apparently, too. Would anyone have come up with that description from the early media reports yesterday? Probably not. People have gotten up on their high(lol) horses about muslims and immigrants already though and I don't think any of them will be big enough to go 'oh shit, we were a bit wrong' they'll rather be like 'yeah but he's still muslim' 'yeah but hes still from an immigrant family' 'yeah but it wouldn't have happened if we stopped letting them in years ago!' etcetc. EDIT: On another note, reading more about the perpetrators' behaviour, I'm wondering more and more if there was any drug related influences involved as well. I have a feeling that even if there was, we might not get to hear about it. Edited May 23, 2013 by Rummy
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