EddieColeslaw Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 Furthermore, for him to suggest that same-sex marriage would further "deprive a child of either a mother or a father." So single mothers and fathers should be kicked out of the church? I don't even get mad at stuff like this anymore. They are clearly obstinately deluded.
MoogleViper Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 Yes, there are tax reasons - I think a married couple pay less tax? Also one benefit would be the convenience of sharing mortgages, bank accounts, stuff like that. Not many benefits of it anymore (not in UK anyway, not sure about Ireland). The only one I can think of is relating to inheritance tax.
chairdriver Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 Loads of great points raised already etc etc. [insert argument about state recognition and how its not necessarily a good thing. Not interesting, but important to note] Main point I want to raise is that campaigning for only certain aspects of an LGBTQ lifestyle introduces a sort of hierarchy, where relationships that approximately fit the mould of what's conventional get the legislative rights, and the others don't. As though it's ok to be gay, but only if the forms of your relationships mimmick those of heteronormativity. Why aren't we campaigning for marriage for more than two people? Why aren't we campaigning for civil partnerships to be an option for straight people? What about trans people that find the terms 'same-sex' and 'different-sex' problematic? These are clearly rhetorical questions because politics is ruled by pragmatism, but it feels like you're a bit shunned if you suggest anything other than cisgendered monogamous marriage? It feels like people often pick and choose the bits of LGBTQ-ness they like, and then forget the rest.
Razz Posted March 14, 2012 Author Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) So single mothers and fathers should be kicked out of the church? I don't even get mad at stuff like this anymore. They are clearly obstinately deluded. Well that's the thing, they're basically saying that single parents are somehow not good parents. What also riles me is that they can claim marriage has sanctity yet it's fine for a gold digging whore (male or female, take your pick) to remarry 6 or 7 times as and when suits the current season. Bullshit. Edited March 14, 2012 by Razz
chairdriver Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 I sorta feel it's so obvious that the Church is full of internal inconsistency and hypocrisy and bullshit that you don't even need to point it out.
Razz Posted March 14, 2012 Author Posted March 14, 2012 Well if you're wearing a cotton blend t-shirt and are chowing down on shrimp you're a filthy filthy bitch in the eyes of the Lord. Oh and you know that whole part on how best to treat your slaves? Loved that part.
chairdriver Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 Well if you're wearing a cotton blend t-shirt and are chowing down on shrimp you're a filthy filthy bitch in the eyes of the Lord. Oh and you know that whole part on how best to treat your slaves? Loved that part. But then, I find an argument which emphasises the role of scripture often implicitly assumes that's the way everyone thinks about theology, which isn't necessarily true.
Razz Posted March 14, 2012 Author Posted March 14, 2012 I agree. I mean that's just hardcore Old Testament drivel and its from where a lot of picking and choosing gets done to suit one's need. The good stuff, and the stuff that a lot of Christians seem to love to forget is the New Testament's message of forgiveness and grace. Now I wouldn't call myself a Christian but I have a knowledge of the bible and probably more-so than those who claim righteousness. And trust me I've met a lot of so-called Christians who are severely lacking in the grace department.
chairdriver Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 grace. Yes. My favourite word/concept. My mother's name is Grace, and for the longest time I was always like "Why would you call your child Grace? Gray-ce. Graice. It's so ugly." But then, when you consider it as a non-trivial thing... it's like calling your child Beauty - except that Beauty sounds shite and obvious - like, imagine being able to utter "I am Grace". It's like something an angel would say. And if you say the word over and over you understand why it means what it means, why the sounds came to represent such a stunning quality in a person, grace. I always think of Shilpa Shetty when I think of grace. Like a definitely stunning human being, old and wise, knows that grace is such a quality to have. I wish I had grace. I wish I was called Grace.
Frank Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 I like how following your twitter account has made such posts as the one you've just made seem completely normal. Like you quietly whispered into our ears your conquests to come. [you're not the only one overdosing on caffeine right now evidently :p]
Oxigen_Waste Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 I like how this forum can keep a topic where EVERYONE agrees going.
ReZourceman Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 Marriage is old fashioned, backwards and originates from religion (I think) so I hate it. The idea of two people bonding, and it being "the ultimate level" is appealing....to women, mainly and men probably don't ACTUALLY want to get married if they really think about it. A nice party and a change of name from one/both parties should be enough, not necessarily it needing a tag. But yeah. I am vehemently against same sex marriage because that is wrong and God would not be please. jkz. Its all gravy with me in concept, just marriage is crap./
The fish Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 I like how this forum can keep a topic where EVERYONE agrees going. I don't. (See what I did there? ) More seriously, gay rights and equality: I thought we already took care of this shit and agreed that discrimination is bad, so how hard can it be to allow gay marriage? As for the CoE and Catholic church, I think you all know where I stand on them. Silly irrelevant fuckers.
Mokong Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 I always find it annoying how people who take a life time vow to practice celibacy also somehow put themselves in some sort of authority role on matters of marriage, sex and children. And it sickens me more that people actually put faith in these peoples opinions. I mean that's like me giving advice on how to repair and maintain a car when I know frak all about cars.
Cube Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 Also, the whole "the Bible says it's wrong" argument is incredibly stupid. Picking a utterly random topic: Loans. It it stated many times that it is a sin to be in debt. It is a sin to owe someone money. It is a sin to charge interest on lending someone money. Here is a company dedicated to providing loans to churches. They can pick and choose which parts they want to listen to.
The Bard Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 I, to provide a perhaps unexpected perspective, am reasonably in favour of marriage. It's a safeguard against all the minutia of day to day life that affects you and keeps you from being your truest self, and the best you can be to the person you love. I think it's there to say that while you might disagree with one another, or go to bed at night hating each others guts, you have time and a stable foundation thats not going to slip from your grasp the moment you become distracted by everything else that takes a part of your life. Of course, I don't want to get married for a long ass time, but eventually, I think it's something I'd like to have, so to deny the same institution to same sex couples is absurd and vile, when really, all they want is to bind themselves together with something a little stronger than the capriciousness that usually invests the promises that one person makes to another when the going is good.
Eenuh Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 So can someone explain to me what the difference is between marriage and civil partnership? Or are we simply talking about marriage in a religious form here? I find it ridiculous that marriage between same-sex couples isn't allowed yet in certain places. Everyone should be allowed to marry whoever they want, no matter the sex, skin colour, religion, culture etc. As long as both parties agree of course heh. They have just as many rights as anyone else and they are definitely not going to harm anyone by getting married. This all shouldn't even be a debate in this day and age and it saddens me that it still is.
Mokong Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 Also, the whole "the Bible says it's wrong" argument is incredibly stupid. Picking a utterly random topic: Loans. It it stated many times that it is a sin to be in debt. It is a sin to owe someone money. It is a sin to charge interest on lending someone money. Here is a company dedicated to providing loans to churches. They can pick and choose which parts they want to listen to. I never thought of that, must remember that next time I get into a debate with a religous zealot
Mr_Odwin Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 So can someone explain to me what the difference is between marriage and civil partnership? Or are we simply talking about marriage in a religious form here? I find it ridiculous that marriage between same-sex couples isn't allowed yet in certain places. Everyone should be allowed to marry whoever they want, no matter the sex, skin colour, religion, culture etc. As long as both parties agree of course heh. They have just as many rights as anyone else and they are definitely not going to harm anyone by getting married. This all shouldn't even be a debate in this day and age and it saddens me that it still is. Here's a short piece on it. I personally think state recognised marriage should be done away with. Anyone should be able to enter into a civil partnership (via a short, formal, non-religious ceremony), but after that, anything you do (any religious celebration, etc) should be entirely personal and nothing to do with the state. There's a strange hypocrisy in Mormon culture where, in general, people are against redefining marriage to include same sex, but they forget about that when talking about our polygamous history, and that period of time is spoken of as a time of persecution. "Why wouldn't the US government let us practice our religion in peace?"
chairdriver Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 Marriage is old fashioned, backwards and originates from religion (I think) so I hate it. Like this. The idea of two people bonding, and it being "the ultimate level" is appealing....to women, mainly and men probably don't ACTUALLY want to get married if they really think about it. Don't like this reason, since that's a massive gender stereotype. Loads of women I know are against marriage, and loads of men are really quite for it.
Coolness Bears Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 I love the idea of marriage more than any females I know. (I know 2)
Eenuh Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 Don't like this reason, since that's a massive gender stereotype. Loads of women I know are against marriage, and loads of men are really quite for it. Big stereotype indeed. I have no real desire to get married at all. I don't really see the point (apart from some financial advantages). So for me marriage is really low on my list heh. Doesn't mean it won't ever happen, but for me it's not necessary.
Jonnas Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 Funny, the other day in German class, we had a discussion on marriage. 3 men and 3 women in that class. The 3 of us men were pro-marriage, while the 3 women didn't care much for it. As for the gay marriage topic...I think everything has been said already. Oxi_Waste's post summed up things nicely, really.
bob Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 I like how this forum can keep a topic where EVERYONE agrees going. I don't know....it seems to have run out of steam. Maybe resort to some name calling like in the alcohol thread?
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