Nintenchris Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 Im not sure if anyone has posted this yet http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traveltax/ Its the petition to stop those greedy gits robbing every last penny motorists have by charging you to use the roads as and when you use them.
Patch Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 Signed it a couple of weeks ago. It's currently 1.6 million people and counting, receiving quite a boost thanks to a lot of media coverage lately (including last night's Top Gear).
Oli1983uk Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 I have signed this and read in the news yesterday Tony Blair will be sending an email to everyone on the list to explain why he thinks we need this system put in place.
Tellyn Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 But the thing is, we don't. They already charge enough for energy and petrol and taxes.
Nintenchris Posted February 19, 2007 Author Posted February 19, 2007 Oh i forgot to say if your gonna sign it, do it today as the deadline to sign up is the 20th of February... yes thats tomorrow.
Charlie Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 I signed it, I doubt it will do anything though.
ShadowV7 Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 As if they need another reason to suck money out of us.If he does send that e-mail of his,if possible just send one back replying why we think the system doesn't need to be put in place.
Domstercool Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 Signed up, hardly sign petitions though. This one does have a huge backing and the idea of tracking is bloody crap.
Platty Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 I signed this a few days ago when I first heard about it. What a joke it truely is.
MoogleViper Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 Signed this. Some parents are just so cruel with names.
Blackfox Posted February 19, 2007 Posted February 19, 2007 Hmm, my opinions on this are mixed. Its all very well and charging people for journeys to clear the roads - but people still have to use them, and its not like public transport is cheap and effecient. I think I'll sign it..
Ashley Posted February 20, 2007 Posted February 20, 2007 Oli1983uk said: I have signed this and read in the news yesterday Tony Blair will be sending an email to everyone on the list to explain why he thinks we need this system put in place. Interesting, as it states: "Your email will not be published". Dirty Tony Blair using dirty tactics to get emails. Tut tut.
demonmike04 Posted February 20, 2007 Posted February 20, 2007 MoogleViper said: Signed this. Some parents are just so cruel with names. Heh, i lol'd at that. I really should of signed this if it would of made any difference, im interested in driving (well its becoming a requirement for life pretty much), and being 17 i should of signed it.
Cube Posted February 20, 2007 Posted February 20, 2007 By the time I get a provisional license, the whole system will probably be totally different anyway.
Fields Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 Maybe I'm being a bit controversial here, but is the proposed road pricing not fairer than the current road tax system? It seems much fairer to charge people depending on how travelling they do as opposed to charging everyone a flat rate.
Flaight Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 Fields said: Maybe I'm being a bit controversial here, but is the proposed road pricing not fairer than the current road tax system? It seems much fairer to charge people depending on how travelling they do as opposed to charging everyone a flat rate.I've got mixed feelings about this too. With the typical money raising schemes we see here and there, it's easy to put it in the same bag and slag it off. Yet, logically it seems to make sense to me. How much you pay for it more accurately reflects how much you use it... that sounds frighteningly reasonable.
Cube Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 Fields said: Maybe I'm being a bit controversial here, but is the proposed road pricing not fairer than the current road tax system? It seems much fairer to charge people depending on how travelling they do as opposed to charging everyone a flat rate. TBH, I don't think thats the main problem. I think people are worried about how the government will enforce it, and privacy.
4q2 Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 They have to put in some sort of back up plan for when taxes are lost on ciggies and possibly beer. Cars seem like a fair place to start for the next "dirty and polluting my space" habit....
Charlie Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 Well Mr Blair has replied to it... Reveal hidden contents Thank you for taking the time to register your views about road pricing on the Downing Street website. This petition was posted shortly before we published the Eddington Study, an independent review of Britain's transport network. This study set out long-term challenges and options for our transport network. It made clear that congestion is a major problem to which there is no easy answer. One aspect of the study was highlighting how road pricing could provide a solution to these problems and that advances in technology put these plans within our reach. Of course it would be ten years or more before any national scheme was technologically, never mind politically, feasible. That is the backdrop to this issue. As my response makes clear, this is not about imposing "stealth taxes" or introducing "Big Brother" surveillance. This is a complex subject, which cannot be resolved without a thorough investigation of all the options, combined with a full and frank debate about the choices we face at a local and national level. That's why I hope this detailed response will address your concerns and set out how we intend to take this issue forward. I see this email as the beginning, not the end of the debate, and the links below provide an opportunity for you to take it further. But let me be clear straight away: we have not made any decision about national road pricing. Indeed we are simply not yet in a position to do so. We are, for now, working with some local authorities that are interested in establishing local schemes to help address local congestion problems. Pricing is not being forced on any area, but any schemes would teach us more about how road pricing would work and inform decisions on a national scheme. And funds raised from these local schemes will be used to improve transport in those areas. One thing I suspect we can all agree is that congestion is bad. It's bad for business because it disrupts the delivery of goods and services. It affects people's quality of life. And it is bad for the environment. That is why tackling congestion is a key priority for any Government. Congestion is predicted to increase by 25% by 2015. This is being driven by economic prosperity. There are 6 million more vehicles on the road now than in 1997, and predictions are that this trend will continue. Part of the solution is to improve public transport, and to make the most of the existing road network. We have more than doubled investment since 1997, spending £2.5 billion this year on buses and over £4 billion on trains - helping to explain why more people are using them than for decades. And we're committed to sustaining this investment, with over £140 billion of investment planned between now and 2015. We're also putting a great deal of effort into improving traffic flows - for example, over 1000 Highways Agency Traffic Officers now help to keep motorway traffic moving. But all the evidence shows that improving public transport and tackling traffic bottlenecks will not by themselves prevent congestion getting worse. So we have a difficult choice to make about how we tackle the expected increase in congestion. This is a challenge that all political leaders have to face up to, and not just in the UK. For example, road pricing schemes are already in operation in Italy, Norway and Singapore, and others, such as the Netherlands, are developing schemes. Towns and cities across the world are looking at road pricing as a means of addressing congestion. One option would be to allow congestion to grow unchecked. Given the forecast growth in traffic, doing nothing would mean that journeys within and between cities would take longer, and be less reliable. I think that would be bad for businesses, individuals and the environment. And the costs on us all will be real - congestion could cost an extra £22 billion in wasted time in England by 2025, of which £10-12 billion would be the direct cost on businesses. A second option would be to try to build our way out of congestion. We could, of course, add new lanes to our motorways, widen roads in our congested city centres, and build new routes across the countryside. Certainly in some places new capacity will be part of the story. That is why we are widening the M25, M1 and M62. But I think people agree that we cannot simply build more and more roads, particularly when the evidence suggests that traffic quickly grows to fill any new capacity. Tackling congestion in this way would also be extremely costly, requiring substantial sums to be diverted from other services such as education and health, or increases in taxes. If I tell you that one mile of new motorway costs as much as £30m, you'll have an idea of the sums this approach would entail. That is why I believe that at least we need to explore the contribution road pricing can make to tackling congestion. It would not be in anyone's interests, especially those of motorists, to slam the door shut on road pricing without exploring it further. It has been calculated that a national scheme - as part of a wider package of measures - could cut congestion significantly through small changes in our overall travel patterns. But any technology used would have to give definite guarantees about privacy being protected - as it should be. Existing technologies, such as mobile phones and pay-as-you-drive insurance schemes, may well be able to play a role here, by ensuring that the Government doesn't hold information about where vehicles have been. But there may also be opportunities presented by developments in new technology. Just as new medical technology is changing the NHS, so there will be changes in the transport sector. Our aim is to relieve traffic jams, not create a "Big Brother" society. I know many people's biggest worry about road pricing is that it will be a "stealth tax" on motorists. It won't. Road pricing is about tackling congestion. Clearly if we decided to move towards a system of national road pricing, there could be a case for moving away from the current system of motoring taxation. This could mean that those who use their car less, or can travel at less congested times, in less congested areas, for example in rural areas, would benefit from lower motoring costs overall. Those who travel longer distances at peak times and in more congested areas would pay more. But those are decisions for the future. At this stage, when no firm decision has been taken as to whether we will move towards a national scheme, stories about possible costs are simply not credible, since they depend on so many variables yet to be investigated, never mind decided. Before we take any decisions about a national pricing scheme, we know that we have to have a system that works. A system that respects our privacy as individuals. A system that is fair. I fully accept that we don't have all the answers yet. That is why we are not rushing headlong into a national road pricing scheme. Before we take any decisions there would be further consultations. The public will, of course, have their say, as will Parliament. We want to continue this debate, so that we can build a consensus around the best way to reduce congestion, protect the environment and support our businesses. If you want to find out more, please visit the attached links to more detailed information, and which also give opportunities to engage in further debate. Yours sincerely, Tony Blair
Rummy Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 So it may not be introduced as a stealth tax or in order to create a big brother society, but that doesn't mean it won't end up being used like that, that's one of my concerns. What about the humoungous tax already on petrol? I swear we have like the highest petrol prices in the world or something(ok, got nothing to actually back that up), but it is pretty expensive already, where's all that money going to? I saw the thing on the news that Oli mentioned, and apparently despite this petition the scheme is still going to be piloted in some areas. Really, it isn't so much a democracy as it used to be, and no one can really stop the government doing stuff they want to do.
gaggle64 Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 I wish people would stop describing it as a "stealth tax", that's just needless poli-speak. It's not like anybody didn't notice it coming.
Cube Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 What would people say to getting rid of road tax, and putting more tax on petrol - (with the likes of people who regually using their vehicles off-road, e.g. farmers, having a discount). Then the amount of tax will depend on a) How much you use the roads b) How efficient your car is TBH, I think taking the efficiency of cars into account will encourage the use of more efficient cars.
Rummy Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 Yeah, I agree. Even just upping the price of petrol would in effect be like charging people for the distances they drive, though I don't approve of either. What's the need for a complex system that has to monitor lots of cars when they could just put the price of petrol up instead?
Fields Posted February 21, 2007 Posted February 21, 2007 Rummy said: Yeah, I agree. Even just upping the price of petrol would in effect be like charging people for the distances they drive, though I don't approve of either. What's the need for a complex system that has to monitor lots of cars when they could just put the price of petrol up instead? I think the idea is you pay more on busy roads, and during busy times, hopefully reducing congestion.
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