Choze Posted July 25, 2008 Posted July 25, 2008 That could be due to the PS exclusivity or VIII being quite dismal or IX not appealing to the VII futuristic, aloof main character-wanting masses. I'm sure X sold well though - it seems the first FF of a new console always sells the best. credit to neogaf member gantz85 for the umbers: FFVII - 9.3 million (3.9JP) FFVIII - 8.1 million (3.7JP) FFIX - 5.0 million (2.8JP) FFX - 5.9 million (2.9JP) So far based on what i could find XII is lower than FFX and IX. Which i cant blame since it was weak given nowadays we have games like Wow. I think porting XIII to the 360 is the perfect decision and sales will be respectable if not near record-breaking. Square-Enix just aren't great at bringing their games to the public. A decision and moneyhats to release on a platform that does not have a market for JRPG let alone Japanese orientated games. Yeah perfect decision... Perfect decision to compromise most of their market and the customers who actually buy their games. I wish them luck with this 'perfect' new strategy. Versus XIII looks great btw... for a movie.
Sheikah Posted July 25, 2008 Posted July 25, 2008 So far based on what i could find XII is lower than FFX and IX. Which i cant blame since it was weak given nowadays we have games like Wow. Can't help but agree that FFXII was tosh compared to the previous FFs (gameplay aside, the soul of Final Fantasy was utterly sapped from the game). The WoW comment though...dear lord :p. I don't think it's WoW that people are choosing over FFXII...there's far better. A decision and moneyhats to release on a platform that does not have a market for JRPG let alone Japanese orientated games. Yeah perfect decision... Perfect decision to compromise most of their market and the customers who actually buy their games. I wish them luck with this 'perfect' new strategy. Versus XIII looks great btw... for a movie. It's not though. A lot of people here are confusing "JRPG" with "Final Fantasy". Final Fantasy is a separate entity that, naturally, accumulates fuss and sales no matter where it goes. Even people who don't buy JRPGs but Final Fantasy. And given that FFXIII will most likely: a) Receive rave reviews, and b) Wow the pants of people interested in graphics and special effects (as well as RPG lovers), you can expect the game selling well on the 360 too. Considering how much fuss people on the 360 are making, it's pretty obvious it will sell like hotcakes on the 360. And of course, most importantly, FFXIII appearing on the 360 will make no difference in PS3 FFXIII sales (apart from owners of both consoles, but they'll buy S-E's game on one console or another), because people aren't silly. People with PS3s aren't going to not buy a game they really want just because it got released on another system. That's just silly.
Domstercool Posted July 25, 2008 Posted July 25, 2008 Thing is though FF12 got RAVE reviews, the only reason why it didn't sell as well as the PSX ones could be that fans didn't like the change, they want to stalemate the series to minor improvements and that's just wrong. I welcome the change and I'll welcome more changes that appear in the FF games. Making each FF Game different is what makes them more exciting.
Choze Posted July 25, 2008 Posted July 25, 2008 In FF12's case it was too little too late. Other RPG's, now have better battle systems and open world gameplay. Look at TOS or WOW. Crisis Core was good though but they need to get that on console. Was pretty linear fromw hat i played too. I think SE need to do more than just catch up they need to be leaders. you can expect the game selling well on the 360 too. Considering how much fuss people on the 360 are making, it's pretty obvious it will sell like hotcakes on the 360. And of course, most importantly, FFXIII appearing on the 360 will make no difference in PS3 FFXIII sales (apart from owners of both consoles, but they'll buy S-E's game on one console or another), because people aren't silly. People with PS3s aren't going to not buy a game they really want just because it got released on another system. That's just silly. Doesnt work that way. I am sure they do well as FF is still a big name but it has more to prove this time round. Previous 360 JRPG got alot of buzz too but they flopped hard. SE better 360 sales are good because now it needs to offset afew PS3 sales.
Guest Jordan Posted July 25, 2008 Posted July 25, 2008 That may be the case Choze, but lets put it this way if FFXIII sells alot more on 360 than PS3... which would be your lead SKU afterwards?
Gizmo Posted July 25, 2008 Posted July 25, 2008 Except it really, really won't sell more on Xbox. 1) PS3 is the lead platform so is bound to have better performance. 2) The 360 version is almost certainly going to be on several discs, while the PS3 will be on one. 3) The biggest FF market afaik is Japan 4) People associate FF with the PS3 and so people who have been anticipating it are more likely to own that system.
Daft Posted July 25, 2008 Posted July 25, 2008 That may be the case Choze, but lets put it this way if FFXIII sells alot more on 360 than PS3... which would be your lead SKU afterwards? Since SquEx makes game primarily for the Japanese market, still PS3.
Sheikah Posted July 25, 2008 Posted July 25, 2008 Thing is though FF12 got RAVE reviews, the only reason why it didn't sell as well as the PSX ones could be that fans didn't like the change, they want to stalemate the series to minor improvements and that's just wrong. I welcome the change and I'll welcome more changes that appear in the FF games. Making each FF Game different is what makes them more exciting. Sure, FFXII had one major change, that being that the story was complete shit and the characters barely ever even spoke to one another (I don't recall, for instance, Penelo and Basche even engaging in conversation). Seriously, though, the battle system was still pretty similar to the old FF games... the fact you could move around in battles gave the idea of freedom, yet the ATB was still there filling up. And even if you did try move away from an attacking enemy, they could still land hits on you. The movement part in battles was pretty much a farce - actual movement played very little part, with the ATB system still in place (just that you waited for the bar to continuously refil to have the game automatically launch your attack). Seriously, FFXII is one of the most overrated games I have ever played, bar maybe FFVII, and this is coming from someone who has played a hell of a lot of FF games. Most of the people who loved FFXII that I know hadn't played many, or indeed any, FFs. In FF12's case it was too little too late. Other RPG's, now have better battle systems and open world gameplay. Look at TOS or WOW. "Better" is completely opinion though - and considering FF sells so well, you might expect that people prefer the battle system of FF games. Crisis Core was good though but they need to get that on console. Was pretty linear fromw hat i played too. I think SE need to do more than just catch up they need to be leaders. Final Fantasy is already the world's leading RPG series, so no idea what you're talking about tbh. Doesnt work that way. I am sure they do well as FF is still a big name but it has more to prove this time round. Previous 360 JRPG got alot of buzz too but they flopped hard. SE better 360 sales are good because now it needs to offset afew PS3 sales. Actually, I think you'll find it does work that way. FFXIII coming to 360 can be broken down into this: - Good for Square Enix and the FFXIII game - Bad for Sony. There is absolutely no loss of profit for S-E from this deal - not only did they probably get paid something just to put the game on 360, they also get sales from the 360 version. To reiterate, anyone with a PS3 who wanted to buy this game still will buy this game, despite it going to 360. This is a completely win-win situation for S-E.
Domstercool Posted July 26, 2008 Posted July 26, 2008 Each to their own then, but I've played a lot of FFs and enjoyed FF12. Certainly better than FF9, for me anyway, but alas it's all opinions. Certainly no loss for S-E but still fans will only get the complete FF 13 universe story on PS3 and mobile (eww)
Ramar Posted July 26, 2008 Posted July 26, 2008 Certainly no loss for S-E but still fans will only get the complete FF 13 universe story on PS3 and mobile (eww) I don't like the sound of this whole universe nonesense. When I play any Final Fantasy I care only for the characters involved in the game. It's hard to explain but alternate paths, other worlds, I don't have time for, I don't understand the strategy behind it. Personally I like what I've seen of Versus, but I think it will confuse some consumers, when say a mum walks into the store and sees two versions, she's gonna be confused bat shit. And really whats the deal with two games, who can seriously get into two decent RPGs at one time?..
Domstercool Posted July 26, 2008 Posted July 26, 2008 I personally love the idea. It makes the planet a more complete world, giving it a huge back history. It's the same with Suikoden. I love how Suikoden games are always set in the same planet, just at different times and locations. It has such a immersive world because of it ,making it one of the better rpg series on the market. I really can't see a negative behind that. People who play Suikoden will see that and know. http://www.suikosource.com/
Choze Posted July 26, 2008 Posted July 26, 2008 Final Fantasy is already the world's leading RPG series, so no idea what you're talking about tbh. Its now World of Warcraft. Big Asian base as well. In Japan Dragon Quest outsold FFX and XII. On PSP Monster Hunter outsold FF(Crisis Core wasnt bad form what i tried out). The FF franchise needs a refresh in the vein of RE4 and MGS4. Actually, I think you'll find it does work that way. FFXIII coming to 360 can be broken down into this: - Good for Square Enix and the FFXIII game - Bad for Sony. There is absolutely no loss of profit for S-E from this deal - not only did they probably get paid something just to put the game on 360, they also get sales from the 360 version. To reiterate, anyone with a PS3 who wanted to buy this game still will buy this game, despite it going to 360. This is a completely win-win situation for S-E. This is where you are wrong. Sacrificing the vast majority of your current audience for a non existant minority (360) is negative. Hardly any gamer gives a damn about company profits unless they are shareholders or work for the company. Certainly after these moves(including FFXIII) i'd rather SE not make a profit. At the end of the day most of us get worse and delayed games thanks to SE's greed.
Sheikah Posted July 26, 2008 Posted July 26, 2008 Its now World of Warcraft. Big Asian base as well. In Japan Dragon Quest outsold FFX and XII. On PSP Monster Hunter outsold FF(Crisis Core wasnt bad form what i tried out). The FF franchise needs a refresh in the vein of RE4 and MGS4. MMORPG isn't the same as RPG. MMORPGs cater for different needs...mainly to fill a hole in people's life, and to give them something to do (one huge grind, typically). As far as the RPG genre goes, FF is the daddy. I frankly couldn't care less about MMORPGs anymore (after a FFXI stint)...they typically just upscale the maps compared to a non-online game, make the experience required for levels a thousand times greater, and have less gameplay, no or poor voice acting, a story that is comparable to a nursery rhyme and usually are full of complete assholes. The fact it takes so long to gain anything results in more people subscribed for a longer time. This is where you are wrong. Compromising the vast majority of your current audience for a non existant minority (360) is negative. Hardly any gamer gives a damn about company profits unless they are shareholders or work for the company. Certainly after these moves(including FFXIII) i'd rather SE not make a profit. At the end of the day most of us get worse and delayed games thanks to SE's greed. How is the vast majority compromised? Sadly, this is where you are wrong. People might not like it going to the 360, but there is no way in hell that people who want to buy it for the PS3 will no longer choose to buy it because of S-Es choice to release it on another console. That's just really retarded. That would be like shooting yourself in the foot. Cast your mind back to a game series called Grand Theft Auto. Remember when that started coming out on 360 too? People still chose to buy GTA games, and not just that, the sales skyrocketed. You could say that the market was there on the 360 too, but at the end of the day if people really did 'lose their confidence' in Rockstar for releasing the game on another console, you wouldn't have expected such large sales on PS consoles still. Silly reasoning. And why should only shareholders care if a game reaches a larger audience? If a game sells more copies and reaches more people, generally speaking S-E may focus their efforts and more resources into future FF games, meaning win-win all round.
Choze Posted July 26, 2008 Posted July 26, 2008 MMORPG isn't the same as RPG. MMORPGs cater for different needs...mainly to fill a hole in people's life, and to give them something to do (one huge grind, typically). As far as the RPG genre goes, FF is the daddy. I frankly couldn't care less about MMORPGs anymore (after a FFXI stint)...they typically just upscale the maps compared to a non-online game, make the experience required for levels a thousand times greater, and have less gameplay. The fact it takes so long to gain anything results in more people subscribed for a longer time. Thats because FFXI was not good. WOW on the other hand was really good. Infact in the early days many on WOW would make fun of FFXI and Final Fantasy in general. How is the vast majority compromised? Sadly, this is where you are wrong. People might not like it going to the 360, but there is no way in hell that people who want to buy it for the PS3 will no longer choose to buy it because of S-Es choice to release it on another console. Well SE have said the PS3 release will be exactly the same as the 360 version save for disks. 360 has several SE games exclusive or timed exclusive right for 360 now. But i suppose you will just say they are getting games out to as many people as possible lol. If that isnt ignoring or compromising your userbase then i dont know what is. At the end of the day they have clearly made their intentions clear that they are not in the business of getting games out to players, but getting moneyhats. This is essentially rewarding a company for making the wrong decisions that go against the interest of gamers. And why should only shareholders care if a game reaches a larger audience? If a game sells more copies and reaches more people, generally speaking S-E may focus their efforts and more resources into future FF games, meaning win-win all round What are you talking about? 360 has a larger JRPG audience? Are you working for one of MS's online viral teams? Furthermore i may still be sort of ok towards FF as a franchise (it if its not like an EA update) but i have the right to despise SE as a company. : peace:
Gizmo Posted July 26, 2008 Posted July 26, 2008 At the end of the day they have clearly made their intentions clear that they are not in the business of getting games out to players, but getting moneyhats. This is essentially rewarding a company for making the wrong decisions that go against the interest of gamers. They aren't in the business of getting games out to players? Surely putting it on two consoles shows that they ARE trying to get it to more people? I seriously don't get how you can argue it going to 360 is a bad thing in ANY way.
Hero-of-Time Posted July 26, 2008 Posted July 26, 2008 At the end of the day they have clearly made their intentions clear that they are not in the business of getting games out to players, but getting moneyhats. So by putting the game on 2 consoles they arent getting the game out to players? I really dont get this at all, I mean why kick off because a game is coming to another console? Sure if it was coming at exactly the same time as the PS3 version but with extras I can understand people getting upset but it isnt. All of this hate for S-E is exactly what happened with Capcom when they announced DMC4 as a multiformat title and it didnt hurt them. Its not exactly as if FF has been a Sony exclusive all of its life either. I mean it did start out on the Nintendo consoles and even in recent years it has branched out to various handhelds. At the end of the day if you like the FF games you will buy it whatever the console its on and if people dont buy it just because its multiformat then they are muppets and will likely be missing out on a great game and story.
Choze Posted July 26, 2008 Posted July 26, 2008 They aren't in the business of getting games out to players? Issues with reading? or just too dumb? As said above, What 'two consoles' are there for SE games outside of FFXIII? Most are on 360 not PS3. Surely putting it on two consoles shows that they ARE trying to get it to more people? And how many people would that be? I seriously don't get how you can argue it going to 360 is a bad thing in ANY way. I guess you dont get it but 360 sales arent exactly why 'any of SE's games' are on the platform. Also there is no evidence to suggest that FF will gain from this. So i suppose its bloody good that everyone should get a lesser experience to gain just 1 extra customer(or lose 1 customer judging by how most FF buyers may well just be the same people with different consoles anyway). Seems like a good match for MS's universally apraised customer service.
Sheikah Posted July 26, 2008 Posted July 26, 2008 Thats because FFXI was not good. WOW on the other hand was really good. Infact in the early days many on WOW would make fun of FFXI and Final Fantasy in general. I've played WoW (as I have many MMORPGs)...like most MMORPGs, it really is garbage. The quality of the game clearly suffers due to the level grind and story compared to an offline RPG. Well SE have said the PS3 release will be exactly the same as the 360 version save for disks. 360 has several SE games exclusive or timed exclusive right for 360 now. But i suppose you will just say they are getting games out to as many people as possible lol. If that isnt ignoring or compromising your userbase then i dont know what is. Example of compromising the userbase: "Sony announces FFXIII will no longer appear on PS3. Example of not compromising the userbase: "Final Fantasy XIII to also go to Xbox". One stops PS3 owners playing FFXIII, one doesn't. As long as people that were originally planning to buy the game on the PS3 can still buy the game on the PS3, the 'userbase' is not compromised. People are not so petty that they will refuse to buy a game because it went on another platform. That's just daft. At the end of the day they have clearly made their intentions clear that they are not in the business of getting games out to players, but getting moneyhats. This is essentially rewarding a company for making the wrong decisions that go against the interest of gamers. Getting your product to more people and making more money go hand-in-hand, silly. Any business exists to make money, but does so by getting it to more people. The money they make can then be used on future games. What are you talking about? 360 has a larger JRPG audience? Are you working for one of MS's online viral teams? I never said the 360 had a larger JRPG audience, so I have no idea why you responded with that. So i suppose its bloody good that everyone should get a lesser experience to gain just 1 extra customer Oh yeh...one more customer. Now you know you are talking shit.
Choze Posted July 26, 2008 Posted July 26, 2008 I've played WoW...like most MMORPGs, it really is garbage. The quality of the game clearly suffers due to the level grind and story compared to an offline RPG. Each to their own. People are not so petty that they will refuse to buy a game because it went on another platform. That's just daft. I was not arguing this. But you can keep pretending... Getting your product to more people and making more money go hand-in-hand, silly. Any business exists to make money, but does so by getting it to more people. The money they make can then be used on future games. True. But SE is not doing this. With that logic shouldnt SE games like SO, IU and LR also be on PS3 then? Excuse me? Are you taking the piss? I never said the 360 had a larger JRPG audience, so I have no idea why you responded with that. Then why are you even arguing? The whole point why people are upset is that 360 is the lead system for SE.
Gizmo Posted July 26, 2008 Posted July 26, 2008 Issues with reading? or just too dumb? As said above, What 'two consoles' are there for SE games outside of FFXIII? Most are on 360 not PS3. And how many people would that be? I guess you dont get it but 360 sales arent exactly why 'any of SE's games' are on the platform. Nobody is debating the fact that it's bullshit that Microsoft have paid for timed exclusives (like Eternal Sonata, etc). But what has that to do with FFXIII? Also there is no evidence to suggest that FF will gain from this. The evidence to suggest it will gain is that it will reach a larger audience. Simple math: Total PS3 userbase < Total PS3 userbase + EU Xbox userbase + NA Xbox userbase So i suppose its bloody good that everyone should get a lesser experience to gain just 1 extra customer(or lose 1 customer judging by how most FF buyers may well just be the same people with different consoles anyway). Seems like a good match for MS's universally apraised customer service. In what possible way is it going to be a "lesser experience" just because it's on Xbox?
Choze Posted July 26, 2008 Posted July 26, 2008 Nobody is debating the fact that it's bullshit that Microsoft have paid for timed exclusives (like Eternal Sonata, etc). But what has that to do with FFXIII? Then you agree The evidence to suggest it will gain is that it will reach a larger audience. Simple math: Total PS3 userbase < Total PS3 userbase + EU Xbox userbase + NA Xbox userbase They why not release on the Wii, Mac and PC with that lovely logic? In what possible way is it going to be a "lesser experience" just because it's on Xbox? Well if the game doesnt take advantage of PS3's strengths than of course its not the experience it could have been, sadly. I ams ure many will argue this.
Gizmo Posted July 26, 2008 Posted July 26, 2008 Then you agree On Microsoft's paying for exclusives, yes. They why not release on the Wii, Mac and PC with that lovely logic? I think they should release on PC, yes. Wii I'm not so sure about; there are big differences. The PS3 / 360 difference has been proven to be negligible. See: GTAIV, DMC4, SC4,CoD4, etc (lots of 4's ) Well if the game doesnt take advantage of PS3's strengths than of course its not the experience it could have been, sadly. I ams ure many will argue this. Like what, Sixaxis controls? So far as I can tell the PS3's strength is that and BluRay (and tbh I don't really like Sixaxis stuff 99% of the time anyway), while the Xbox's is online infrastructure. So as far as I can tell, it is taking advantage of the PS3's strengths.
Calza Posted July 26, 2008 Posted July 26, 2008 I think the point Choze was trying to make earlier on was that Square Enix are releasing Star Ocean 4 and Infinite Undiscovery on Xbox as exclusives while the PS3 is only getting FF XIII Versus exclusively. Though I could have just picked up on it completely wrong. I wonder how many disks it will be on 360, do PS3 games come on dual layer blu-rays or just single?
M-PG71C Posted July 28, 2008 Posted July 28, 2008 Hold up a bit there, Star Ocean is looking to be more of a timed-exclusive than anything. SE has neither confirmed nor deny that a version is coming to the PS3. Now Infinite Undiscovery has been confirmed as an exclusive for the 360, no PS3 version is coming. In fact, it is the only SE exclusive for the system, everything is either timed or hitting the PS3 at the same time. I don't think owners of either system should be worried though, SE games are going to hit both platforms moving forward since the userbase is roughly the same, as PS3 sales continue to speed up and 360 sales continue to slow-down, they will both end up on equal footing. The only reason MS got these SE games to begin with is through money, like any other company! :P As for how I feel about it, who cares? I'm getting a PS3 even still because I like their first party content better than MS's and SE games are still hitting the platform so no real loss and I'm sure many PS3 owners feel the same.
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