RedShell Posted February 18 Posted February 18 59 minutes ago, Glen-i said: Honestly, I'm baffled at how RedShell can discount all water starters when Totodile exists! They just generally lack cuteness IMO compared to grass and fire types. And don't forget, I'm a weirdo that doesn't like to let Pokémon evolve so that they remain cute... ...and completely useless in battle. This time around my fave is: 1 hour ago, Glen-i said: This combination of awful movepool, and a region that is hostile to it, cements the Chikorita line as the least popular Gen 2 starter by far. But cute. 1
Dcubed Posted February 18 Posted February 18 (edited) Quote Despite the box art for these games sporting the Game Boy Colour logo on it, these games were compatible with the standard Game Boy (Not Crystal, though). I don't know if that had an impact on actually designing the Pokémon, but it's worth keeping in mind. Also worth keeping in mind that many of the Gen 2 Pokemon designs were originally intended for Gen 1 before being cut. Can't remember if that includes the 9 starter Pokemon listed here or not, but they would've been designed with much the same limitations as Gen 1 (B&W GB game) in mind. Edit: Bu... buh... but Totodile IS cute @RedShell! Edited February 18 by Dcubed 1
Julius Posted February 18 Posted February 18 1 hour ago, Glen-i said: Anyway, that's about everything with the Gen 2 starters. What's your favourite? It's the Cyndaquil line for me, simply because Typhlosion is my favourite of the bunch. Thank Pokémon Chronicles and The Legend of Thunder special for that Probably watched those Chronicles Volumes 1-3 episodes dozens of times. Love 'em. Also: Jimmy is infinitely cooler than Ash. I've mentioned the cards before, and while I vastly prefer Lugia to Ho-Oh (don't @ me), I actually picked up the Golden Sky theme deck from Unseen Forces specifically because it included Typhlosion in its card list. I think that might have been one of my earliest Pokémon card purchases? Gen II is a weird one for me in that the anime was my only direct attachment to it for the longest time. I played the first hour or two of Gold at a friend's house on their sister's GBC and got the first badge, after that it was buying some knock-off 100-in-1 GBA cart over in the Philippines which said it included Silver...which it didn't; also: a similar knock-off LeafGreen cart - it was grey, completely fake, lost all progress after attempting to transfer to the Pal Park in Diamond several times, I've yet to go through Kanto all the way by *official* means, because that first playthrough and losing it meant something as a little kid. I still remember learning about SoulSilver for the first time over on Serebii, the short PWC 2009 release date news, it was the second Pokémon game I followed that closely to release (I guess we'll get to that later on). By the time SoulSilver released over here at the tail end of March 2010 I was a few months away from leaving primary school, and we were actually on a family trip to York at the time, and weren't allowed to bring our DSs in order to focus on the trip (I was devastated too). We picked the games up on the last day of the trip, I quickly shuffled away into my room after we got back, and stayed up for a few hours under my duvet jumping into Johto properly for the first time and yes, as @Glen-i rightly points out...Typhlosion did feel useless a lot of the time during my time with SoulSilver. But I loved it all the same (and he might up for it with some awesome Pokéathlon performances) The Chikorita line does nothing for me, I think those designs are some of the weakest for a starter line in all of Pokémon (sorry @RedShell), though they've certainly had some awesome Pokémon card designs over the years. I think Bayleef might be my favourite from that line? The Totodile line, on the other hand, I do have a lot of love for, and if not for Legend of Thunder and Jimmy, it would probably be my favourite line. The line was one of the favourites of one of my best friends/Pokémon rivals (c'mon, we all had 'em) back in primary school; Totodile was the Pokémon I ended up as my first time through Blue Rescue Team (Charmander was my partner, and so getting to the point where I had a Feraligatr and Charizard walking around was AWESOME); I remember Feraligatr giving me memorable times drawing loops around it in Pokémon Ranger and in Guardian Signs (a boss in the latter if I'm remembering right? So it had some cool art!); and obviously, Silver having a Totodile during my playthrough of SoulSilver and how their story plays out, as well as Ash's Totodile, just gave it a lot of impact/comedy to me that I don't think we got to see out of some of the others. Croconaw looks pretty dumb, though. 56 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said: One of the best things to come out of gen 2 was the opening for the cartoon. Love it. Yessssssssss Master Quest had a banger opening too! Damn it H-o-T, I wasn't planning to listen through all of the theme songs today...but here I am 1 2
Cube Posted February 18 Posted February 18 I'm not as familiar with the newer Pokémon like these, but I have seen the anime that covers them. In terms of designs, the initial evolution of each one is great. Chikorita has some good evolutions, and from what I remember, had a full arc in the show. Bayleef razor leaf is a great aspect of the design, and this middle evolution is far more iconic than any of the other middle or final evolutions of these starters. Cyndaquil's evolutions...exist. They're both very boring. And as for poor Totodile, he has some really ugly designs to look forward to.
Glen-i Posted February 18 Author Posted February 18 (edited) 1 hour ago, RedShell said: They just generally lack cuteness IMO compared to grass and fire types. That's, uh, wait, what? You monster! 38 minutes ago, Cube said: And as for poor Totodile, he has some really ugly designs to look forward to. Now, hang on! Croconaw, sure. But Feraligatr is a rugged, handsome bugger! Well, these days. NO! DON'T LOOK AT THE GOLD SPRITE! Where's it's neck? Actually, speaking of weird Feraligatr sprites. Here's the back sprite from the Gen 3 games. I swear, this is not edited! That's the actual sprite in-game! After that, Game Freak finally settled on a more consistent design for it. 52 minutes ago, Julius said: I remember Feraligatr giving me memorable times drawing loops around it in Pokémon Ranger and in Guardian Signs (a boss in the latter if I'm remembering right? So it had some cool art!) Good memory! I take it, this is what you mean? Typhlosion has one too! Where's Meganium's? That's cute, you think Meganium's popular enough for that? I'm not wrong. Meganium is really unpopular! Nah, only joking. Still unpopular though. 52 minutes ago, Julius said: Totodile was the Pokémon I ended up as my first time through Blue Rescue Team (Charmander was my partner, and so getting to the point where I had a Feraligatr and Charizard walking around was AWESOME); See, now this is amusing. Because in Explorers of Darkness, I got assigned Charmander through the quiz, and went with Totodile as the partner. And now every time I replay the Explorers games, I can't bring myself to deviate from that initial selection. Charizard and Feraligatr just feel like a weirdly natural duo, despite being completely different types. Probably helps that they're both reptiles. And yes, the nicknames my Charizard and Feraligatr have are the same nicknames from my Explorers file. Spoiler Edited February 18 by Glen-i 1
Ashley Posted February 18 Posted February 18 Totodile will always be my boy because I'm a water Pokémon fan. I'm glad we got another water himbo starter in the new generation too. However, I'll always feel a kinship with Cyndaquil because we have the same eyes. Spoiler 1 6
bob Posted February 18 Posted February 18 I actually really like the fact that the Cindaquil/Quilava/Typhlosion line is really ambiguous in what sort of animal it's supposed to be. For one, I think it's quite clever to be able to design a set of animals that kind of morph between one species and another and make you go "well obviously it's a.....er....it's got to be a.....is it a shrew?"I also prefer it because it makes them seem more like real animals in the Pokémon world, rather than an exact facsimile of one of the real animals from our world, except it breathes fire or whatever. 1
Glen-i Posted February 18 Author Posted February 18 2 minutes ago, bob said: I actually really like the fact that the Cindaquil/Quilava/Typhlosion line is really ambiguous in what sort of animal it's supposed to be. Actually, you reminded me of something I wanted to ask. Now, I'm fully aware that not everyone will have played every generation of Pokémon (@BowserBasher being the main example), but despite that, I still want those people to tell us their favourite starter Pokémon of each generation. I'm interested in what those people would gravitate to, even if it's skin deep.
BowserBasher Posted February 18 Posted February 18 I think Gen 2 I might have picked Cindaquil. So long ago now I can’t remember but he does seem to be the one I remember. But yeah after that I don’t even think I can name any. Though going by my Pokémon Go knowledge I think there’s a piplup/puplip or something. I just ended up calling him Plipplop. Was Chespin one? And then the grass…oh it’s in Smash, chucks the leaves, hold on I know this one 😂 Skivy (but probably spelled correctly) out of those I like Plipplop 😂 Should I take this moment to apologise to all the Pokémon fans I’ve just upset with the names 😂 2
Glen-i Posted February 18 Author Posted February 18 3 minutes ago, BowserBasher said: Should I take this moment to apologise to all the Pokémon fans I’ve just upset with the names 😂 You got two of them right, at least. Not gonna tell you which until I get to them though.
Ashley Posted February 18 Posted February 18 52 minutes ago, Glen-i said: Actually, you reminded me of something I wanted to ask. Now, I'm fully aware that not everyone will have played every generation of Pokémon (@BowserBasher being the main example), but despite that, I still want those people to tell us their favourite starter Pokémon of each generation. I'm interested in what those people would gravitate to, even if it's skin deep. Personally I like cute Pokémon and after Johto there's not one of them for four more generations when it comes to the starters. And in that mix is Snivy who is a smug little fucker which is pretty much the opposite of cute. But I'll explain my feelings towards them all when each generation comes around.
Julius Posted February 18 Posted February 18 26 minutes ago, Ashley said: Personally I like cute Pokémon and after Johto there's not one of them for four more generations when it comes to the starters. This is unprovoked Mudkip slander and I won't stand for it. As a water Pokémon fan you should be ashamed of your words and deeds!
Ashley Posted February 19 Posted February 19 Mudkip is a funny meme but it's not cute. It's got dead eyes, udders on its face and a you know what on top of its head.
Jonnas Posted February 20 Posted February 20 I always loved the Squirtle line. Squirtle is easily the cutest of the Gen 1 starters (well, it was, before the anime gave it rough, chain-smoking voice in the English version), Wartortle looks like a dopey teenager still finding themselves (as mid-evolutions ought to do. This is a 12-year old rascal if I ever saw one), and Blastoise is a strong, proud grown-up who knows what they're about. Love that it launches its water from hidden artillery bits, makes her look more like a tank, and allows crazy stuff like the rapid spin, or even her finishing move in Pokkén. Always liked that cool-looking pose on the original cover, too. In fact, I love that there isn't a single shot of Blastoise where they don't look confident. I don't particularly care for Mega Blastoise (where it looks excessively mechanical), or the Pokkén version (I mean, you know why), even if I love that Blastoise is in a fighting game. I've always respected the Bulbasaur line as well. Precocious Bulbasaur doing what he can, menacing Venusaur with its imposing weight, and Smash really made me appreciate Ivysaur's in-between form a lot more. Plus, the anime really showed how those Vine Whips mean business. A shame about its lack of competitive viability, Venusaur looks like such a mean tank. But the Charmander line... Never liked them. So basic. The flaming tail is their one cool feature, and even that isn't consistent, considering how often it gets drenched without ever going out. Okay, Charmander is fine, but Charmeleon has a stupid unihorn in its head, and Charizard is as generic as dragons get. Despite this, Charizard was all the rage (and still is), and its fans so obnoxious. Facts don't care for such feelings, though. On 18/02/2024 at 11:47 AM, Hero-of-Time said: One of the best things to come out of gen 2 was the opening for the cartoon. Love it. Mah man I'll be hearing the PT version of this for some good ol' nostalgia. I picked Cyndaquil way back then, and never regretted it. This is a line I like a lot, with each form looking like a different mammal, but with a growth that makes sense. Plus, having flames replace what would otherwise be patches of fur (or porcupine spikes) is pretty clever. Quilava looks like an edgy-but-kinda-dopey teenager, and Typhlosion is explosive in all the right ways. I've also always thought of Flame Wheel as its signature move, and even if it isn't that great a move, it's pretty rad-looking. Totodile... isn't my style. No hate, it just doesn't gel with my sensibilities much. Croconaw doesn't do anything for me, either, why does its skin look like caveman clothes? Feraligatr looks pretty awesome, though, good thing the line ends on a strong note. I like the lack of an "o" in its name too, makes him more unique. Too bad the physical-special split didn't exist back then, he wasn't that hot back in GSC. Chikorita is a lovely design, I remember being a kid and really wanting to pick it, back when GSC was Japan-only. Bayleef is a surprisingly endearing mid-evolution, nothing dopey about it, it's just a nice-looking dinosaur with a leef moteef. Meganium is where it all goes wrong. That neck looks awful, the pink flower clashes horribly with the green skin, the movepool sucks... Bayleef looks pretty good throwing razor leeves, how does Meganium screw even that up!? Meganium alone made me go for Cyndaquil, it's that bad. On 10/02/2024 at 1:32 PM, Glen-i said: By the way, this is a good opportunity for a confession. I genuinely think Blastoise is one of the worst designs in all of Pokémon. Squirtle and Wartortle are fine, but Blastoise is a crap design. The tail doesn't follow the increasing elaborateness that the other two do, and, well, the cannons are absolutely dumb. Blastoise is not a mechanical Pokémon, why the hell does it have cannons!? I hate it, no thought put into the evolutionary theming what-so-ever! 2 1
Glen-i Posted February 23 Author Posted February 23 (edited) It's nonsensical, and I won't be swayed on that! Anyway, that's so 2 generations ago! We're living in the here and now! And by "Here and now", I mean 2002. Generation 3, otherwise known as Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald, takes place in Hoenn. It's more of a tropical locale then the first two, but you wouldn't be able to really tell from the starter Pokémon. Being a GBA game, this is the first time a mainline Pokémon game was made with full colour in mind from the start. Treecko (TREE-ko) is the Grass starter. And it couldn't be any more different to the first two Grass starters. It's bipedal for a start, but more importantly, instead of being a slower, defensive battler, Treecko and it's evolutions are very much glass cannons. They hit hard, they hit fast. Treecko does well against the first gym, which is as good as it'll get in the early game for any starter here, actually. And then there's Grovyle (GROW-vile). Behold! This is the second of the starter middle evolutions to not be overshadowed by the other two! In fact, Grovyle may be the most popular of these three.@Julius and @Dcubed already knows why, but for everyone else... The primary antagonist of the second Pokémon Mystery Dungeon games is a Grovyle. The general Pokémon community refers to him as "Grovyle the Thief". I'm not gonna go into the details on it, because that would be spoilers for a game that has a legitmately good story. And seeing as the first PMD game got remade recently, it's not out of the realm of possibility for this game to get a remake. It is the most fondly remembered entry for a damn good reason! I defy you to find someone who prefers Treecko or Sceptile, and if they do, they clearly haven't played this game. The final evolution is Sceptile (SEP-tile). And I can only assume Game Freak felt sorry for Grass starter fans, because it's a truly excellent Pokémon on paper. It's stats are highly specialised towards Special Attack and Speed, and it's the first starter to get a signature move. Leaf Blade has 70 power, 100% accuracy, and has a high critical rate. Basically Razor Leaf, but not crap. On top of that, it can utilise TM's to learn a wide variety of moves. But it's that last part where it kinda falls apart for Sceptile. All the good moves it can learn through TM are physical based. So only Leaf Blade uses the Special Attack stat. The other moves use Sceptile's mediocre Attack stat. Despite that, Sceptile still does pretty well in playthroughs. But it desperately needs some support for Grass resistant types. The Physical-Special split in Gen 4 doesn't do it a huge favour, as it makes Leaf Blade a physical attack, but Energy Ball is a better alternative, and it can learn some good special moves through TM's. It also gets the hidden ability "Unburden" in Gen 5, which would make it a surprisingly effective Double Battler once terrain effects roll around The Gen 3 remakes, Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire, were released in Generation 6, and thus added a number of Mega Evolutions, including these starters. Mega Sceptile is Grass/Dragon, so dear lord, keep it away from Ice attacks! It's Speed and Special Attack are an eye-watering base 145! For comparison's sake, that's only 5 less then Deoxys! This is one scary Mega Evolution! Anyway, Mr. Christmas Tree here gets Lightning Rod (Absorbs Electric attacks, and then raises it's Sp. Atk one stage), which sounds strange, because Electric attacks only do a quarter of the damage against it. But throw this in a double battle, and it starts to make a lot more sense. Sceptile was in Pokkén. Actually, it was my favourite character in that game. But I'm rubbish at Pokkén, so don't take that as proof that it's any good or anything. I wouldn't know. You know, in most other generations, Sceptile would have been far and away the best choice for a starter. But no, it's in Gen 3, which means it's competition is... Torchic (TOR-chick) is the only Gen 3 starter to struggle with the first Gym in Hoenn. It's not the best of starts, but Torchic's surprisingly high Special Attack (Higher then Charmander's) might just carry you through it anyway if you have a good nature. Worst comes to worst though, you can always just evolve it. Combusken's (com-BUS-ken) only notable feature is that it becomes Fire/Fighting. This is an amazing type combination! If only more Fire starters had it... Other than that? Eh, it's a middle evolution. Blaziken (BLAZE-uh-ken) is the final evolution and has... EXCUSE ME!? That's pretty much the dream stat spread for casual Gen 3 playthroughs! Doesn't matter what kinds of moves you teach it. Blaziken can do it all! The Physical-Special split of the first three generations is the main reason Pokémon are quite limited in what they are able to do. But because Blaziken has amazing stats in both Attack and Sp. Atk, it can easily use Flamethrower, Brick Break, and Earthquake to full effect. Blaziken isn't good against any of the Hoenn gyms, but with those stats? Who the hell cares!? And well, things wouldn't go very well in Gen 4, as a certain other Pokémon would steal it's thunder. But then Gen 5 came along... Bit of a tangent before I explain Blaziken in Gen 5. Spoiler Smogon is a massive Pokémon community that basically lives for 6V6 Singles format. Every Pokémon is painstakingly workshopped to provide a database for what movesets and Effort Value distribution you should use to get the most out of a Pokémon. Personally speaking, I much prefer Doubles, so I recommend using these suggestions sparingly. As they don't focus on Doubles and impose various rules that you don't see in the the more official VGC format. It serves as a good starting point for what to do with a Pokémon in competitive battling. Anyway, Smogon's format is split into various tiers. Won't list them all, but these are the three tiers that are the most popular. UnderUsed (UU) - Generally, these include Pokémon that aren't quite good enough to be used in the more standard tier. They're not awful though. Just not really viable if you allow most Pokémon. OverUsed (OU) - The standard format, most Pokémon are allowed here. Ubers - This is the tier where Pokémon go when they're considered too good for standard play. Most Legendary Pokémon go here, but there are exceptions. There's actually a higher tier for Pokémon considered far too powerful even for Ubers. Pokémon like Mega Rayquaza, Crowned Zacian, and Bidoof. But that tier is not relevant for this thread. So for some reason I can only assume was a fit of madness. Blaziken's Hidden Ability is "Speed Boost". Speed Boost is an astonishingly good ability that raises the Pokémon's Speed stat at the end of every turn! After just one turn, Blaziken becomes as fast as Sceptile, and only snowballs from there! Because of this, Blaziken became the first, and only, starter to be banned to Ubers in Smogon! Sorry to spoil that for all future starters, but Gen 5 Blaziken is the best starter ever. Competitively speaking, anyway. Oh, but it only gets better for our fiery chicken. Mega Blaziken is concrete proof that if a Pokémon is horribly broken, don't fix it! It's the only Mega Evolution that barely changes anything about the actual Pokémon. It's still Fire/Fighting, and it still has Speed Boost as an ability. The only thing that changes is it's stats, which are naturally a lot higher. Dear lord, don't let this thing get momentum, because you will lose the battle if you do! Anyway, on to the next starter... Huh? What's the matter? Oh! That... So, yes. I censored the Blaziken image. I had no choice. I didn't want parents to give my post a bad review. Yes, there is an actual reason I did that. Blaziken's in Pokkén. And when the WiiU version came out, a certain review on Amazon picked up some noteriety. Spoiler Boy, it's a good thing they didn't see Reshiram... Anyway, here's the actual image. Spoiler Filth, apparently. Mudkip (MUD-kip) is the water starter. What even is it anyway? I look at the Pokédex classification and it's the "Mud Fish" Pokémon... ...OK, sure. Anyway, much like Treecko, Mudkip is great against the first gym. I was hoping to avoid this, but someone mentioned it earlier. So I guess I have to talk about that meme. In case someone here somehow doesn't know of it. The meme @Ashley is referring to is "I Herd U Liek Mudkips". A glorified catchphrase that gained traction in the mid-2000's because the internet is a very silly place. The origins of that meme come from DeviantArt (Hey, the only other site I'm on!), when someone who made a Mudkip based group would go around looking for fanart of the Mudkip family, and inviting those artists to join their group like so. That's pretty much it. It caught on and everyone started posting that phrase everywhere. Geez, that meme is almost 20 years old now. Marshtomp (MARSH-stomp) is another middle evolution that has nothing much to mention. It does become Water/Ground, which is great because it becomes immune to Electric, which happens to be the third gym. Unfortunately, it's double weak to Grass now... But Grass isn't a gym in Hoenn, so it's not a huge deal. Swampert (SWAM-pert) is the final evolution here. Unfortunately, it's very much a physical based attacker, which means that half of it's movepool can't be used to the fullest potential. Still, it gets some solid attack options in Water, Ground, Ice, and Fighting. It's quite effective against a lot of gyms, but it's literally half as fast as Sceptile, and doesn't have the insane utility that Blaziken has, so it ends up being the big loser in Gen 3 (It's not much better in the Gen 6 remakes either). It's not terrible, but the competition is that fierce! Doesn't help that the hidden ability it gets in Gen 5 is utter crap. Mega Swampert has clearly been on the roids. It's got an eye-watering base 150 attack! And it gets Swift Swim as an ability! Swift Swim doubles Swampert's speed in rain, which is very much appreciated for such a slow Pokémon. Mega Sceptile is still faster then Mega Swampert, even with Swift Swim, so you need to watch out for that. And that wraps up Generation 3. What's your favourite? I'm a Mystery Dungeon fan, so Grovyle is my favourite. That's, like, the law. Even before Mystery Dungeon though, Grovyle evolving into Sceptile was the first time I was disappointed in an evolution. Sceptile just loses a bit of that sleekness Grovyle has. I still like it though. Actually, I think all the Gen 3 starters are cool designs. Solid Pokémon all round. Swampert's cooler then Blaziken, though. Spoiler If you actually recognise the pose in that Sceptile picture, you are a proper nerd. Edited April 12 by Glen-i 4 1
Ashley Posted February 23 Posted February 23 39 minutes ago, Glen-i said: In case someone here somehow doesn't know of it. The meme @Ashley is referring to is "I Herd U Liek Mudkips". A glorified catchphrase that gained traction in the mid-2000's because the internet is a very silly place. The origins of that meme come from DeviantArt (Hey, the only other site I'm on!), when someone who made a Mudkip based group would go around looking for fanart of the Mudkip family, and inviting those artists to join their group like so. Hey don't blame me. Someone years ago (pretty sure it was @Fierce_LiNk) edited my profile so I've got to roll with it. And of course there was that mudkip/UKIP mock advert on the tube years ago.
EEVILMURRAY Posted February 23 Posted February 23 Naturally fire starters all the way again. But this begins the annoying trend of putting fire and fighting together.
Ashley Posted February 23 Posted February 23 1 hour ago, EEVILMURRAY said: Naturally fire starters all the way again. But this begins the annoying trend of putting fire and fighting together. "Fight fire with fire" is a phrase for a reason
Glen-i Posted February 23 Author Posted February 23 5 minutes ago, Ashley said: "Fight fire with fire" is a phrase for a reason No, don't do that. This is Pokémon, that's a terrible idea. 1
Cube Posted February 23 Posted February 23 In terms of design, Treecko is by far the best, with Mudkip also being good. Torchic looks more like a "early, easy to catch" Pokémon with its very simple design rather than a starter. For the middle and end evolutions, they all look rather awful, with the exception of Grovyle. I do remember Treecko and Torchic being big parts of the show, from what I remember, Treecko leaves when it evolves, while Torchic's penis-shaped evolution stays around a while. Mudkip was just comic relief (I think Brock had one, but out of his water Pokémon, I remember a lilypad one more).
Dcubed Posted February 23 Posted February 23 (edited) Poor Swampert really does get overshadowed by his bretherin this generation... I'd also say the same for the mid evolutions, as Combusken and Marshtomp really are just kind of whatever after you see Grovyle; and I'm not even taking Mystery Dungeon into account here, Grovyle's design is just miles ahead in all respects. So much so that even Sceptile feels like a downgrade (and hilariously enough, Sceptile actually gets a stat decrease when you evolve Grovyle into it in the Mystery Dungeon games ) Grass did really deserve a lucky break though, especially after the way that it got done dirty with the Gen 2 starter line. Good for grass! Shame it would still end up getting beaten competitively by the fire starter line this time around though. Edited February 23 by Dcubed
Julius Posted February 23 Posted February 23 (edited) 6 hours ago, Glen-i said: And that wraps up Generation 3. What's your favourite? Honestly, I think Gen III might be my favourite overall when it comes to starter designs? Not counting Mega Evolutions (to make it a fair comparison) I really like/love 6 of the 9 starter line designs this time around. As a quick aside - because I hadn't thought of tracking it that way before - for Kanto it would be 4 of the 9 (Bulbasaur, Squirtle, Wartortle and Charizard), and for Johto it would be 4 of the 9 again (Bayleef, Totodile, Feraligatr and Typhlosion). I'll try to keep on top of this list to create a mini-rankings for myself as these go on! Anyways favourite line of Gen III is the Treecko line. PMD aside - which is a pretty big thing to put aside, all things considered - I just have a pretty unique history with the line in the games. I've mentioned it on here before, many years ago (holy cow, six years ago?!), so I'll just quote myself from that other awesome Glen-generated thread On 3/4/2018 at 11:18 AM, Julius said: Sceptile Whilst Bulbasaur was my first starter Pokémon, I think it’s important to mention that the first Pokémon game that I owned was actually Pokémon Ruby — a game that I originally started with a Mudkip. I still remember my time with Mudkip. I played up to Mauville City and getting pretty stuck against Wattson; if I recall, I must have accidentally decided to not teach it to my now Marshtomp, and it not being tooled with a particularly great moveset. After some grinding and running around everywhere in the early parts of the game, I ventured back to Slateport with Mr. Briney and Peeko. I went up to the Trick House not too far north of Slateport, just past the entrance to Cycling Road, and continued my grind. One of my Pokémon must have been poisoned, because I ended up hobbling back to Slateport’s Pokémon Centre with a wobbling screen. Dashing to Nurse Joy, she healed my Pokémon, and revealed that Marshtomp had Pokérus. I was already confused and frustrated about what I should do at this point in the game, and so I exited the Pokémon Centre and saved my game. This was the tipping point. So, I decided to start the game again, but planned to not save it. I’d made loads of progress with Marshtomp, so maybe I just needed a new perspective, and so I thought I’d try out a different starter Pokémon. Not being a fan of Torchic’s design, I decided to go with Treecko, and yep, you probably guessed it: I accidentally saved over my old save file. What ensued was my most difficult but rewarding time with a Pokémon game. I say that because I remember battling May’s Blaziken and Flannery’s Slugma to be particularly hard. Sure, I understood type weaknesses, but my other Pokémon were all so weak when compared to the might of my starter Pokémon that I just stuck with Treecko, then Grovyle, and then Sceptile. Going to the Pokémon League, Sceptile must have been somewhere around Lv. 70, compared to a real pick-and-mix team of Lv. 40 - Lv. 47 Pokémon (I recall having Groudon, Pelipper, Gyarados, and a Castform). I would use the other Pokémon only on occasion, such as an obvious type mismatch or when I needed to revive or heal Sceptile. I must have tried tens of times, but I just could not beat Drake with Sceptile for the life of me, and so I went around the region training as hard as I could, battling every single trainer that I could find, and grinding a whole lot at the aforementioned Trick House. During my travels, I stumbled upon TM02 Dragon Claw at the top of a waterfall in Meteor Falls, and decided a while later to see if any of my Pokémon could learn the move. Oh, Sceptile can learn it? And with that, Drake’s Salamence, unbeknownst to me at the time, was now all but doomed. And Steven, in comparison, was an absolute cake walk. My Sceptile was Lv. 93 when I beat Drake, but might have been Lv. 94 when I beat the League. Regardless, I’d done it, but my completely underlevelled and unbalanced team would later go on to be annihilated at the Battle Tower, and accidentally deleted by a friend a short while later. I think that I have such affectionate memories of my journey in Hoenn because I made that journey during my six months living in Australia, on my first Nintendo console (only my second console and my first handheld: a Nintendo DS) with no friends interested in Pokémon at my school, and having to write back home (here, in England) for some advice from a friend (I’d always get around whatever obstacle was in my way by the time that I received his response). This was my way of maturing, and I feel like I owe it to this game that I adjusted so quickly to life on the other side of the world. I was just experiencing change, wonder, and unexpected challenges, just like my in-game counterpart. And that’s why I love Sceptile. So Treecko is definitely the coolest one to choose off the bat of the bunch for me, and I'm sure that Ash's always having a twig in its mouth in the anime only upped the coolness. Grovyle is again the coolest of the first evolutions, and in terms of final evolutions, I think Sceptile is on par with Blaziken for being the coolest (and as a Mega Evolution, too). After that, for me, it's the Mudkip line. Mudkip and Marshtomp are adorable. I mean just look at lil barista Marshtomp here. Idk what happened with Swampert - definitely the line to suffer from ugly final evo syndrome this time around, yet it's not even cool! - but Mega Swampert looks hilariously jacked and I love it. Torchic looks dumb. Combusken looks even more dumb. Blaziken and Mega Blaziken look awesome. Real ugly duckling thing going on here for a Pokémon based on a chicken... 1 hour ago, Cube said: I do remember Treecko and Torchic being big parts of the show, from what I remember, Treecko leaves when it evolves, while Torchic's penis-shaped evolution stays around a while. Mudkip was just comic relief (I think Brock had one, but out of his water Pokémon, I remember a lilypad one more). I'm not too sure about Treecko leaving - if he did, it certainly wasn't for very long, as it felt like Ash had it in his team a good amount of the time, and as a Grovyle even longer! He also ends up becoming a trusty Sceptile, too, but yeah, he certainly could've left at some point...a lot of Ash's Pokémon do choose to take a sabbatical or go AWOL at some point May getting Torchic was so...strange, in hindsight. Just doesn't suit the idea of a contest Pokémon at all (at least in the way that May approached contests) after being a cute little Torchic and going into an ugly and streaky Combusken, and then into the cool as hell Blaziken. Beautifly always felt like it was more appropriate as a contest Pokémon for May, and so it felt like her starter got shoved off to the sides a lot of the time The coolest use of the line in the anime was actually Harrison turning up with a Blaziken towards the end of Ash's journey in Johto, felt like a great tease for what was to come next I'm Hoenn. Really loved whenever the anime would do that sort of thing. And then yeah, you're right, Mudkip - and then later Marshtomp - was just kind of...there, and Lotad/Lombre/Ludicolo certainly got centre stage as his main Pokémon in Hoenn. Again, just another really strange choice for that one. Edited February 23 by Julius 2 1
Glen-i Posted February 24 Author Posted February 24 (edited) 17 hours ago, Julius said: Just doesn't suit the idea of a contest Pokémon at all (at least in the way that May approached contests) She should've used an actual cute Pokémon, like I did! The audience positively died from cuteness overload when Speedy the Groudon showed off his adorable Precipice Blades! Edited February 24 by Glen-i 1
Jonnas Posted February 24 Posted February 24 From Gen 3 onwards, my opinions aren't as strong. Still, I definitely liked Torchic far more than the others. That lil' chick is cute as heck. Combusken looks like ass, but Blaziken looks pretty dang cool, and I respect him taking up Hwoarang's moveset in Pokkén. Fire/Fighting was novel at the time, which helped. Just wish that hair looked more natural (the curtains, I mean. The drapes look bushy enough). Treecko probably has the most consistent line out of all of them, and Sceptile looks pretty cool and confident (can't get over Treecko's little stubby fingers/toes, though, are these supposed to be pods like a gecko's? They don't look right at all). I see Grovyle has gained a lot of popularity from other media I haven't consumed, which is nice, but I don't feel too strongly about him. I appreciate his excessively long teenage-metalhead-hair, though. Mudkip... doesn't work for me. Speaking as a Quagsire fan, the typing is excellent, and I think the animal is supposed to be the same as Wooper, but the design is so busy! Looks like a dog with too many accessories. Marshtomp looks a bit better, looks like he's getting his shit together... aaaand Swampert happens. I thought we were going bipedal, but then Swampert shows up with this weird-ass curved posture where we don't know if he prefers to be standing or stay as a quadruped. Looks like evolution (real-life evolution, I mean) pranked him by giving him the most uncomfortable skeleton his body could have. 1
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