Sheikah Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Cube said: GamesPass seems like it will end up putting more importance in "games as a service" type games - something which they mentioned Halo Infinite will be. Ugh...really? Games as a service in full price games needs to go away.
Cube Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 12 minutes ago, Sheikah said: Ugh...really? Games as a service in full price games needs to go away. Its apparently not a "live" game like Destiny, but it's the next 10 years of Halo content.
Goron_3 Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 According to Kotaku, a couple of yesterday's announcements (Avowed and Everwild) have had references to XBO support taken off their respective web pages. It reminds me somewhat of the XBO launch when they suddenly took back a lot of their business decisions due to the negative reception, and I wonder if they've realised that releasing a new console with no exclusive games is just a really bad idea. Compare that to Sony who have made it abundantly clear that they believe in console generations and that PS5 games would not have been possible on a PS4. That said, depending on how far those games are in development it makes me wonder if those games will have already have been hindered by current gen design choices? If your next gen titles can already run on XBO then it seems pointless at this stage to remove compatibility with those titles, especially if Microsoft are just looking at GamePass subscription numbers as their main metric (which I suspect they are).
drahkon Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 Eurogamer put it perfectly: Quote astonishingly, we still can't be sure that we have seen a game running on Xbox Series X Microsoft made a great case for Game Pass, but not for their new generation of consoles.
Julius Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Goron_3 said: According to Kotaku, a couple of yesterday's announcements (Avowed and Everwild) have had references to XBO support taken off their respective web pages. Yeah, I mentioned this in my super long post on the last page, because I find it really strange. I took notes while I watched the show after I noticed it in the lower third, what I found was: State of Decay 3, the next Forza Motorsport, Everwild, Avowed, As Dusk Falls, Hellblade II, and Fable were the ones I noted that were labelled as being under the Xbox Game Studios banner but were only presented at the end of their respective showings as being for XSX and PC. Of the third party offerings shown, this was also the case for Stalker 2, Darktide, and The Medium. I'm surprised at the number of games that were slated here as being for Series X/PC only, given how strong cross-gen support had been promised for XBO for the next two years. Unless it's going to be mentioned that these can be played during a potential update on xCloud at the next event, as being able to stream on the XBO? Edited July 24, 2020 by Julius
Kaepora_Gaebora Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 Rumours floating around that Halo Infinite's multiplayer may not be available at launch and will be added down the line... Not sure I can see that being true myself but if it is, Microsoft will probably just point you in the direction of Master Chief Collection's offering or, indeed, 5's, both on Game Pass. Just to throw and idea in to what @Julius and @Sheikah mentioned earlier, I wonder if rather than the games, perhaps Game Pass itself is becoming the live service, adding things into games as and when. I don't know, maybe just rambling thinking. More I think about it the more I feel like I'll just stick with my One S for awhile, until the first price drop happens for the Series X or if it starts at a decent price/good per month offering.
Sheikah Posted July 24, 2020 Posted July 24, 2020 My main thoughts on the focus on Game Pass is that something will surely have to give with that. People are converting years worth of Xbox Live subscription time into Game Pass Ultimate through the 1 dollar/pound Game Pass trial promotion, which is still going. As such, Microsoft are bankrolling it at a loss, presumably up to the point that they feel they have enough customers to start charging properly for it.
Julius Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 (edited) Otherwise known until now by its codename of Lockhart and long rumoured (since the start of last year?) to be a lower level entry point into next gen gaming, the existence of the Xbox Series S has seemingly been confirmed. The manual not having of images of the Series S potentially seems to tie into further ongoing speculation that the console would be sold without a controller for Xbox to reduce its RRP considerably. And Jeff Grubb is saying that we will know more about the console by the end of the month. Interesting times indeed! I do think that the naming conventions of the next gen Xbox offering has been a little confusing at best, even for those in the industry, so curious to see how the public would react. I remember the confusion at The Game Awards last year, and still hear "One X" mistakenly uttered on a frequent basis in a number of gaming podcasts. The Wii U showed just how easy it is for poor naming conventions to hold a console back (among a long list of other reasons, sure), but hopefully for Xbox's sake there's a little less confusion in this situation. As for the existence of the Series S...I couldn't be more excited! Would love to see a monthly payment model that's been thrown around for a while on here for the Series X as a more accessible entry point to next gen, which would be the only way I think I would go about picking one up at launch alongside a PS5, but an entry level next gen offering like the Series S would also satiate my thirst to play some of Xbox's catalogue (in particular, the Halo series). Assuming it would be sold without a controller and Xbox have done their best to keep the price of this down compared to the Series X, I wouldn't be surprised if this thing came in at £299.99, which would be plenty low enough for me to pick it up with Game Pass. I'm sure the PS5 would still be my primary console and get more use in the long term (the abundance of JRPG's and my love of Sony exclusives will make sure of that), but Game Pass and a next gen entry level Xbox for £299.99 would just be too good an offering to turn down. Anything higher and it's difficult to buy into both ecosystems, at least for me, though I would always be willing to wait it out. I think this could be Xbox's chance to be bold get a bit more of the public's mindshare, even if it is shared between PlayStation and Xbox. A hypothetical situation where the Series X is £549, the PS5 is £499, PS5 DE is £429 - £449, and the Series S is as low as £299 - £329 would be a huge potential win for Xbox, especially seeing as Game Pass would mean the initial investment in software could be much lower too. Edited August 10, 2020 by Julius 3 1
Happenstance Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 Another stupid name that is way too similar to the current gen. 1
Kaepora_Gaebora Posted August 10, 2020 Posted August 10, 2020 @Julius the Wii U comparison is a great one, one I hadn't pieced together myself; - plays all your previous console games -can use the controllers/peripherals that you had for your last game - unless your really clued up on your games, that name is as confusing as hell While I really love the consumer friendly approach MS seem to be going for with the Series X and Game Pass etc, I'll be interested to see if there's any similarities to how the Wii U's poor messaging impacted it's sales! 2 1
Happenstance Posted August 11, 2020 Posted August 11, 2020 https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/08/11/xbox-series-x-launching-with-thousands-of-games/ Also November launch confirmed
Julius Posted August 11, 2020 Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Happenstance said: Holy. Crap. This is huge! As Miyamoto said: "A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad." I think it's absolutely the right step to take from how I came away feeling about that demo they showed us, I know the game won't be completely overhauled in this time, but I think it can be pushed more than it has been to be a system seller. I did not come away wanting to throw money at Xbox for Halo, and I feel like that's where they wanted everyone to be. I'm glad that Xbox are giving 343 more time to let them put out a game that they can call their own, and are proud of. I always found it kind of odd that they gave us a timeframe so far out, and of course everything else that's happened this year surely hasn't helped. In terms of the Series X(/S) launch? Unless there's something Xbox has up their sleeve, or some major third party AAA game they've just made exclusive, I can't believe that Xbox actually let 343 have more time. This was their chance to come out swinging into next gen, and now this Christmas and launch window is ripe for PlayStation to run away with (if it wasn't before). Early momentum is definitely something to take seriously, and this a huge blow to Xbox to hit the ground running. Even if the Series S turns more heads than Xbox could possibly hope for, it's asking a lot for the current/launch palette of Game Pass games to go toe-to-toe with Spider-Man: Miles Morales, it just doesn't have that killer app to launch with now. Fully expecting them to blow the roof off now with that marketing deal they have for Cyberpunk 2077, it's going to need to be pushed hard. Very, very, very interested to see how the next few weeks pan out from both PlayStation and Xbox. If Xbox has a trump card up their sleeves other than the Series S, now would be the time to pull it. It's time to put all their chips on the table for launch. Edited August 11, 2020 by Julius 1
Dcubed Posted August 11, 2020 Posted August 11, 2020 Microsoft blinked it seems... ... oh dear... not looking good for their chances now...
Kaepora_Gaebora Posted August 11, 2020 Posted August 11, 2020 If they don't have a specific game to push the new console they need to do something...I can smell another Game Pass deal coming on, get 6 months free with a Series X or something daft like but if they don't have Halo they can't launch the console with nothing to promote it. Brave decision to not enforce a crunch and the right decision as well from a human POV, still playing the consumer friendly angle at MS!
Julius Posted August 11, 2020 Posted August 11, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Happenstance said: https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2020/08/11/xbox-series-x-launching-with-thousands-of-games/ Also November launch confirmed I feel for their PR team having to stretch what's left, doesn't give me much confidence that they have a trump card to hand. Title of the update: Quote Xbox Series X Launches this November with Thousands of Games Spanning Four Generations I just hope the game is everything Halo fans have been waiting for when it does release, because it would be terrible for them (and the Xbox brand) if not only the game was delayed from launch, effectively dooming their chances of competing with PlayStation in the early months of next gen, but it was delayed and still ended up being not willy received. Subjective of course, but I've read a lot of posts concerned about 343's handling of the franchise, and as an outsider, it's hard to not feel for them. 2 hours ago, Dcubed said: Microsoft blinked it seems... ... oh dear... not looking good for their chances now... Yeah, I'm not even sure if a Series S at £199 could save this launch period for them. Would it do well? Maybe, though I still think there's the potential for mixed messaging (we're inevitably going to see "most powerful console ever" and "1080p/1440p" or whatever it's going to show things off at is not strong and clear messaging going into next gen in my opinion). But it needs a killer app, and even with the third party offerings they've got lined up as exclusives, I can't see any of those being that and bringing new people into the Xbox ecosystem. They're stuck in this weird middle ground right now. As someone who wants Xbox to do well and wants to see competition out of the gates getting into next gen, and who has been waiting for any reason to jump on, this sucks. It doesn't give me much hope for the rest of their lineup either - things like Forza being without a trailer for instance, I feel like that will get pushed further back. Only thing they can do to combat it really is what @Kaepora_Gaebora mentioned, and that's throw Game Pass at it. They're already leaning into it with their messaging in the above press release revealing it's launching in November, offer 6 months or 12 months, they need to do whatever they can to just be part of that conversation. But it's so difficult to do that when it's basically mixed messaging of "Play these old games, a handful of smaller exclusives, a handful of weird third party timed exclusives (Yakuza 7), and multiplatform games." I'm sure it'll be enough for the Xbox hardcore - by that I don't mean those willing to blindly support the brand, but rather those so embedded in the ecosystem that they have little choice if they want to carry over purchases or existing profiles on online games - but for the average consumer, it's a really hard sell. 1 hour ago, Kaepora_Gaebora said: Brave decision to not enforce a crunch and the right decision as well from a human POV, still playing the consumer friendly angle at MS! Sadly, everything I've read today (and some articles I've read before) seem to point to this not always being the case. I think Jason Schreier's Kotaku article from January, Game Delays Cause More Crunch, is probably the most succinct in detailing why delays can be just as bad, if not worse, than the normal crunch before a nearing deadline. I can't recommend that read enough. I'm sure it's not necessarily the same at every studio, but it's a very widespread thing, seemingly especially at the biggest of AAA studios, and the gist of it is that basically, the studios will now see this is a great opportunity to drain you even more, beyond even just the normal levels of "polishing the game". Those features that got thrown around in a meeting last month, but wouldn't be ready in time for launch? We have another three months, plenty of time to squeeze that in. That new multiplayer mode which seems to have taken off, do you think we've got time to do something like that? It's quite frankly appalling. Even in games where from the perspective of most gamers it's "just polishing what's already there", on games such as TLOU2 and RDR2, it means another 3 months of overtime. So while I'm glad that 343 are getting more time to polish the game to the standards of Halo fans, and that Xbox weren't willing to push them to the edge right now to have the game ready by November, I can only wish them luck with this delay in trying to bring the game up to snuff, because it seems like there's a lot more work ahead of them in getting this game ready. Edited August 12, 2020 by Julius 1
Will Posted August 12, 2020 Posted August 12, 2020 4 hours ago, Julius said: In terms of the Series X(/S) launch? Unless there's something Xbox has up their sleeve, or some major third party AAA game they've just made exclusive, I can't believe that Xbox actually let 343 have more time. This was their chance to come out swinging into next gen, and now this Christmas and launch window is ripe for PlayStation to run away with (if it wasn't before). Early momentum is definitely something to take seriously, and this a huge blow to Xbox to hit the ground running. Even if the Series S turns more heads than Xbox could possibly hope for, it's asking a lot for the current/launch palette of Game Pass games to go toe-to-toe with Spider-Man: Miles Morales, it just doesn't have that killer app to launch with now. Fully expecting them to blow the roof off now with that marketing deal they have for Cyberpunk 2077, it's going to need to be pushed hard. They must really be unhappy with the reaction to the game, REALLY unhappy. It’s crazy that they’re not going to have the biggest game there at launch. Honestly I’m not really sure how they can compete with the PS5 at this point. 1 hour ago, Kaepora_Gaebora said: If they don't have a specific game to push the new console they need to do something...I can smell another Game Pass deal coming on, get 6 months free with a Series X or something daft like but if they don't have Halo they can't launch the console with nothing to promote it. I think this is probably their only option to have something compelling for launch. I could see them doing something even longer than six months. Maybe anybody buying in the launch window gets a year and then something special to go alongside the Halo launch? 37 minutes ago, Julius said: Only thing they can do to combat it really is what @Kaepora_Gaebora mentioned, and that's throw Game Pass at it. They're already leaning into it with their messaging in the above press release revealing it's launching in November, offer 6 months or 12 months, they need to do whatever they can to just be part of that conversation. But it's so difficult to do that when it's basically mixed messaging of "Play these old games, a handful of smaller exclusives, a handful of weird third party timed exclusives (Yakuza 7), and multiplatform games." I'm sure it'll be enough for the Xbox hardcore - by that I don't mean those willing to blindly support the brand, but rather those so embedded in the ecosystem that they have little choice if they want to carry over purchases or existing profiles on online games - but for the average consumer, it's a really hard sell. But this is a great point. People spending $500 on a new console are not doing it to get access to a load of old games. Agree that it’s good for the hardcore but yeah, don’t see it working for them with the masses (though it’s arguable that really only the hardcore buy in the launch period anyway). 36 minutes ago, Julius said: I just hope the game is everything Halo fans have been waiting for when it does release, because it would be terrible for them (and the Xbox brand) if not only the game was delayed from launch, effectively dooming their chances of competing with PlayStation in the early months of next gen, but it was delayed and still ended up being not willy received. Subjective of course, but I've read a lot of posts concerned about 343's handling of the franchise, and as an outsider, it's hard to not feel for them. It could really screw them up. If the game doesn’t live up to expectations after the delay I can see it throwing the console off track for years to come. 43 minutes ago, Julius said: I can't recommend that read enough. I'm sure it's not necessarily the same at every studio, but it's a very widespread thing, and the gist of it is that basically, the studios will now see this is a great opportunity to drain you even more, beyond even just the normal levels of "polishing the game". Those features that got thrown around in a meeting last month, but wouldn't be ready in time for launch? We have another three months, plenty of time to squeeze that in. That new multiplayer mode which seems to have taken off, do you think we've got time to do something like that? It's quite frankly appalling. Even in games where from the perspective of most gamers it's "just polishing what's already there", on games such as TLOU2 and RDR2, it means another 3 months of overtime. I’m sure it might happen like this at some places but in my experience with a delay like this the project would usually be re-planned with new milestones and sprint objectives. I’d imagine this delay is all based on making the game more ‘next-gen’ than it seemed in what we’ve seen so far, which will give quite a specific scope of work. That said, I’d still expect they will be working way too much all the way up to launch to get it done. 1 1
Sheikah Posted August 12, 2020 Posted August 12, 2020 This obviously needed more time and would have benefited from being developed just for the next gen consoles from the off. It's going to be very interesting to see how Microsoft make the Series X attractive to potential buyers in just a few months. It looks like they are once again making all the missteps to hand the generation over to Sony.And like others have said, Game Pass isn't going to do squat if there aren't new, next gen games on there at launch. There has to be more to justify the expensive console. I honestly wouldn't be surprised at this point if they delay the launch of the Series X.
drahkon Posted August 12, 2020 Posted August 12, 2020 Great to see that the devs get more time to improve their game, but as everyone said: This is a huge blow to the Series X's launch. So it'll be "Game Pass this, Game Pass that" for a while. It's a great service, but I doubt it's got enough pull to sell more than a few new consoles. Happy to be proven wrong, though.
Ganepark32 Posted August 12, 2020 Posted August 12, 2020 Definitely a big blow to their launch strategy, especially as they don't appear to have any other new first party titles that are launching alongside the console. I do wonder if they'll still try and put out the multiplayer portion to launch with the console. With that being free to play, they may be inclined to try and put it out in beta form so that there's some form of new Halo out there. Wouldn't be the big gang buster single player campaign that they're touting with Infinite but having access to the multiplayer suite, even in a beta form, would be a good move considering that that still maintains a relatively healthy community and one that's used to betas and on going changes to the general multiplayer load out. There'll be console exclusives at launch as well as upgrades to existing first party games and then of course things like Gears Tactics coming to console but I don't see anything that'll likely scream system seller or show that Microsoft have made improvements to their software lineup out the gate. Comparatively, it's likely that the PS5 will have at least 1 first party title in the form of Spiderman Miles Morales, though this could still change given the current situation in the US, though from what I hear its all hands on deck to get it ready for that at launch so expect to hear about crunch in the coming months there. Given the huge sales numbers of the original, Miles Morales will easily be a system seller even if it hasn't been fully developed with the PS5 in mind (much in the same way that Halo Infinife is, regardless of whatever corporate speak from Sony or Microsoft say). The same can't be said for Halo as its fallen far from grace in recent years. 343 don't seem to have gotten into the right stride with the franchise. While parts of 4 were good, 5 was awful and their talk of going back to what made the original great sounds good on paper but they haven't managed to create a solid focused single player campaign right through so branching into somewhat more open territory with the game doesn't really bode well for overarching mission structure and such. I'd love to be wrong and I'll 100% play the game but it not expecting it to match 3, ODST or Reach levels of good. Its a tough one for Microsoft as they clearly need more time for the game but the launch is locked in at this point. They'll have a reasonable third party lineup with a lot of day and date games for Gamepass (some exclusive to Xbox just as with Sony and the PS5 but expect these to be more AA and indie than AAA quality) but I don't imagine there'll be many huge new games to push the hardware beyond existing third party IPs. So either they've got some other things up their sleeves for launch from their studios (such as potentially launching the multiplayer portion of Halo Infinite given that it'll be free to play) or they've got plenty of third party exclusives, though this latter point doesn't sound likely as talk/rumours say that Sony have spent a lot of money to get many third party games tied up to the PS5 for a timed period of a year or just generally being platform exclusive. I think that makes the lack of Halo Infinite at launch a bigger worry for selling the console to new customers. Regardless of having the big third party games and then perhaps looking best on the Series X (on paper it seems that may be the case tho the difference will likely be negligible when comparing Series X and PS5 versions of games), Sony and the PS4 have shown gamers want big new first party titles and without these at launch, that's a hard sell even to the biggest Xbox supporters. I imagine that they'll focus a lot on the Gamepass angle to push sales out the gate, though I doubt they'll struggle to sell their initial hardware allocation on launch day. Its the aftermath that could hurt them, though Halo Infinite being delayed does grant smaller games some limelight that they would otherwise have not gotten on launch against that title and then Halo Infinite could spike sales of hardware again afterwards but expect a big drop off in sales after launch and for the early part of next year. But yeah, they'll push Gamepass and I suspect that this game of cat and mouse about price may have been for nothing as I think Microsoft will heavily push their All Access program for launch and the holidays, as well as giving an outright price. They'll push a 24 month payment plan of between £39.99 and £49.99 for the console with Gamepass Ultimate included and that may be enough to attract sales because in the current economic climate, especially in the UK where we've officially gone into a recession as of this morning, smaller monthly payments may be more attractive than shelling £500 plus for new hardware right out of the gate with no games (though I suspect that Microsoft will also sweeten the deal for those buying straight up with a couple of free months of Gamepass Ultimate out the gate). I don't know whether that'll offset the lack of a strong first party title at launch, even if they put out the multiplayer in beta form. The PS5 and the Playstation brand have the lead before the race has started and that's with Sony even drawing out their reveal of information about the console. Both will sell through their hardwate allocations at launch but I suspect short supplies and inflated prices on the PS5 side as opposed to lacklustre post launch followup sales for the Series X, regardless of games. Until Microsoft have their first party studio games ready to show they're progessing forward, and that they're up to snuff with say your average Ubisoft game (let's not imagine that they'll jump to Sony level straight out the gate, there'll be a lot of growing pains to start) then they're going to lose a lot if ground to Sony and the PS5 even if they undercut on price and do the All Access program. I'm already set on a PS5 at launch if I can afford and get hold of one before scalpers do. I'll likely pick up a Series X, especially through the All Access plan, as i already pay for Gamepass Ultimate but its not my first choice considering Sony have done a great job of showing me games I want to play now on PS5 (Deathloop and Kena). But really, the Series X will be more for multimedia seeing as it's options for apps and such will likely outstrip the PS5 going by how the One has better app selection than the PS4. As i say, PS5 first and Series X is an after thought but I'll for sure pick one up for The Medium and Hellblade 2 when they come. As for launch period, November was a given. I'd pegged both consoles to launch between November 6th and November 20th and it seems by all accounts the Series X will be out for November 6th going by current leaks. In the end, it comes down to how they message things going into launch without Halo Infinite. They'll sell their initial hardware allocation but if the message is messy with two SKUs that aren't different on the same lines of the PS5 and PS5 Digital then no smaller price point or monthly plan will help. 1
Mandalore Posted August 12, 2020 Posted August 12, 2020 Is the Halo series still that significant? Everything after Halo 3 has seemed a bit niche and not really system sellers.
Sheikah Posted August 12, 2020 Posted August 12, 2020 35 minutes ago, Mandalore said: Is the Halo series still that significant? Everything after Halo 3 has seemed a bit niche and not really system sellers. Probably not the draw it used to be. But regardless of how well Halo now sells consoles, now that is is taken away there are no system sellers left at launch at all.
Dog-amoto Posted August 12, 2020 Posted August 12, 2020 Thing is, Halo is launching on XBO as well, so there’s really no point in picking up a £400+ console just to have slightly nicer graphics and shorter loading times. I wasn’t going to buy a Series X for another couple of years anyway, didn’t Microsoft say that all new first party releases for at least the next two years would be playable on an OG Xbox One? Seems a mad strategy if you want people to pick up a shiny new box.
Sheikah Posted August 12, 2020 Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Dog-amoto said: Thing is, Halo is launching on XBO as well, so there’s really no point in picking up a £400+ console just to have slightly nicer graphics and shorter loading times. I wasn’t going to buy a Series X for another couple of years anyway, didn’t Microsoft say that all new first party releases for at least the next two years would be playable on an OG Xbox One? Seems a mad strategy if you want people to pick up a shiny new box. Regarding the bolded bit - they did, but their messaging around this has been poor. While initially saying the part about 2 years' support for Xbox One, later tweets suggest it is not compulsory: As well as that, a lot of games they showed off in their recent presentation didn't show the Xbox One logo - which possibly means that many of their games are at least over 2 years away (so won't be on Xbox One). Edited August 12, 2020 by Sheikah
Dcubed Posted August 12, 2020 Posted August 12, 2020 Honestly? Microsoft might as well delay the console into 2021. There’s literally no native software going to be available for it. It’ll be the first ever console to literally launch with no games (and not in a jokey sense!)
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