Xbox Series S | X Console Discussion

[Sheikah]

5 minutes ago, Happenstance said:

MS aren’t going to work out their finance deals comparing prices to current deals, temporary loop holes or cheap key sellers though. The finance deal they are offering is good compared to official prices.

I know that, but the point still stands that when you actually look at your options the finance option isn't actually good value for money. Some people on here were commenting how the finance deal was good value so you'd think they might not be aware of this method.

Also the 1 pound to upgrade isn't a loophole, it's a promotion run by Microsoft.

Edited September 9, 2020 by Sheikah

[Dcubed]

6 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

Also the 1 pound to upgrade isn't a loophole, it's a promotion run by Microsoft.

Buying 12 month XBLG cards to cheat your way into getting 36 months worth of Gamepass Ultimate (with a £276 discount!) was definitely NOT their intention lol!

There's a good reason why they've scrapped the 12 month XBLG cards now!

Edited September 9, 2020 by Dcubed

[Sheikah]

2 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

Buying 12 month XBLG cards to cheat your way into getting 36 months worth of Gamepass Ultimate (with a £276 discount!) was definitely NOT their intention lol!

It must be? Else why allow people to convert so much XBL Gold time into Game Pass? No doubt they are happy to have secured a customer for that many years. You make it sound like this is a glitch in the system that they are not aware of. They are absolutely down with it.

Quote

There's a good reason why they've scrapped the 12 month XBLG cards now!

Probably more to do with the fact they've started a new generation and want to actually start making money from Game Pass, rather than closing any loophole.

Edited September 9, 2020 by Sheikah

[Nicktendo]

17 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

Buying 12 month XBLG cards to cheat your way into getting 36 months worth of Gamepass Ultimate (with a £276 discount!) was definitely NOT their intention lol!

There's a good reason why they've scrapped the 12 month XBLG cards now!

I honestly think that once people lose access to GamePass after a year or two or three of simply having it there, they'll end up being lifelong customers. 

They're essentially beta testers who are gonna be so addicted to this thing once their "free" sub ends, they'll keep coming back.

I reckon MS was gambling on completely changing how these people play games. Once they're in, they won't want out and MS was happy to take the upfront hit of basically giving it away.

[Dcubed]

2 minutes ago, Nicktendo said:

I honestly think that once people lose access to GamePass after a year or two or three of simply having it there, they'll end up being lifelong customers. 

They're essentially beta testers who are gonna be so addicted to this thing once their "free" sub ends, they'll keep coming back.

I reckon MS was gambling on completely changing how these people play games. Once they're in, they won't want out and MS was happy to take the upfront hit of basically giving it away.

Of course, that's obviously what Microsoft is banking on.  Game Pass is currently a huge loss leader for them, but they're looking towards the long-term.  Much like how Netflix was originally a huge money loser that took years and years to start making money; Microsoft are hoping for the same to happen with Game Pass.

The subcription price will have to rise eventually; it's inevitable.

[Goafer]

Interesting. Sony are apparently doing everything wrong apart from games, yet also doing the same as Nintendo (who are the best evAr) with regards to having "no game pass".

Schrödinger's Sony?

[Julius]

Phil saying it was supposed to be next week that this all got revealed 

Feel they did well to pivot as quickly as they did. It's tough these days because they did well to rush out so much on such short notice, but an hour feels like an eternity on the internet. 

Also, deep dive on the Series S: 

 

[Dcubed]

17 minutes ago, Julius said:

Phil saying it was supposed to be next week that this all got revealed 

Feel they did well to pivot as quickly as they did. It's tough these days because they did well to rush out so much on such short notice, but an hour feels like an eternity on the internet. 

Also, deep dive on the Series S: 

 

Yeah, they've done a fantastic job of making the best of a bad situation here.

[Ashley]

3 hours ago, Cube said:

While people are discussing prices and Sony's response to it all....

 

...I'm still struggling to think of why anyone is even excited about either of them right now. There doesn't seem like much point until there's any significant new games. Sony has some, but they're on the Horizon, while Microsoft have a vague promise of a few.

I wonder if this low price and general deal is to counter the fact that don't really have much else to sell the console on at the moment. I think they've found a price people may go "well game pass will keep me busy for a while so may as well get it now!"

[Kaepora_Gaebora]

1 hour ago, Ashley said:

I wonder if this low price and general deal is to counter the fact that don't really have much else to sell the console on at the moment. I think they've found a price people may go "well game pass will keep me busy for a while so may as well get it now!"

Yeah, absolutely is I reckon. I mused when Halo Infinite was delayed that they would somehow use Game Pass as the big selling point as there was no "tent pole". 

Now they've announced that EA Play is being integrated into Game Pass at no extra cost, that's another 60 and some big one's like the FIFA's etc, as someone who uses Game Pass that Series X price on All Access is amazing, I'll be tempted to go for that finances allowing.

[Cube]

29 minutes ago, Kaepora_Gaebora said:

Now they've announced that EA Play is being integrated into Game Pass at no extra cost, that's another 60 and some big one's like the FIFA's etc, 

It's only the previous FIFA games you can get for around £1.50 in CEX.

The latest sports games (and other newer games like Jedi Fallen Order) are only on the EA Play Pro.

[Kaepora_Gaebora]

29 minutes ago, Cube said:

It's only the previous FIFA games you can get for around £1.50 in CEX.

The latest sports games (and other newer games like Jedi Fallen Order) are only on the EA Play Pro.

Well if you're clearly like me and just see the words FIFA then you'll be easily swept in to it, too 😛

(To be fair the last football game I bought and still play is PES 2016, but the power of FIFA is still an eye catcher I guess)

[Julius]

So, I've had a bit of time to digest this all, and I'm stuck in the middle on how exactly I feel. I hope I don't sound too harsh, and before I even start my rambling, I do genuinely hope Xbox delivers on all of this and kills it next gen. It's better for me as a gamer, and people get to keep their jobs. It's a win-win if that happens. 

On the one hand, those prices are insanely good. £449 for the Series X and £249 for the Series S is pretty bonkers! For the hardware you're getting it shows just how serious Xbox are about this gen...but I'm struggling to see how they're making money back, haemorrhaging money on both the hardware and software point (strictly from a Game Pass point of view - and honestly, I think you'd be almost silly not to jump on Game Pass, of course depending on finances and actual interest in what's available). 

Oh, but that's the long-term plan, they're going service-based!

Okay, let's look at it this way: a generation has typically been seven or eight years long for the past two or three generations. Let's assume you jump in on Day 1 with the Series S or X this November, grabbing the console on the All-Access plan, giving you two years of Game Pass Ultimate. You won't be impacted by any changes to price for Game Pass Ultimate until November 2022 at the earliest, at a minimum 25% of the way into the course of the generation, and if you are one of Microsoft's ideal customers - as in, someone who jumps in on Day 1 with the All-Access plan, and does the bulk of their gaming through that service for the next two years - they aren't making much money at all from you for potentially two years. The little they do make is going to be from third party titles! Meanwhile, they're busy bleeding money on their hardware until production costs get low enough for them to start turning a profit, but by which point we're probably already halfway through the generation and a mid-gen refresh is probably on the cards.

There are a lot of numbers of course I'm not mentioning here, but the general point is going to be the same regardless: Xbox. Bleeding. Money. For a good while. 

It's such a difficult one to read, but basically they want as many people in during this first year or two before they can reasonably expect to start putting the prices up on Game Pass. That's great if you achieve crazy sales figures - which hey, the Series S is very well positioned to deliver on - before ramping them up, but if not, well, you're in a weird position again.

It could pay off in a great way, but it could also absolutely be that final nail in the coffin for Xbox I feel if it doesn't. They have a lot of riding on it, which is why I hope it does well, because I don't want that to happen. But they need to strike gold with some of these first party titles in the next two years, enough to get people to pick up a Series S or Game Pass, at least. 

Then I come to the spot where I'm in a bit of a grey area: the financing plan for these consoles as part of All-Access. On the one hand, people are generally in a stranger spot now when it comes to finances than they were about six months ago, so paying a monthly fee vs the whole amount is a great sell for those in a tight spot wanting to experience next gen. At the same time, though, a credit search to finance a console? Yes it comes with Game Pass Ultimate, and I think it's a good deal, but these are very uncertain times for most people as it is.

As someone who works for a bank, let me put it this way: you want a £600 loan which you can pay back over two years? That's not the most exorbitant amount - so why don't you have the funds to cover it as is?

It's a bit of a red flag for me, so I'm curious to see how potential lenders might view it if you end up missing payments and potentially defaulting over a console. Then again, I've seen this is Klarna they're doing it through - I'm also curious how they view similar habits with clothing and other things they provide finance for. I'm sure people will mention smartphones and such too, but honestly I feel that in the first world communication is becoming more of a necessity. At the end of the day, this shouldn't be a priority expense like that perhaps should be (below actual living expenses, of course). 

Personally, I think it's a dangerous game to play today, with so many only just starting to return to work, knowing that another lockdown could put them back in a hole they've just struggled out of. My general, totally objective advice (for this, and honestly just lending in general): only take out credit in instances where you could comfortably clear it with boosted payments of your own accord, and only if you're wise with your money as it is, with the disposable income to very easily support it. 

Probably not necessary to hear for many here - and again, Game Pass Ultimate bundled in with that is a great deal - but why do I foresee thousands of students throwing their maintenance loans or maxed out overdrafts at this and somehow finding themselves falling into arrears? 

Anyways, I've gone a bit off topic there. So the final thing: games. Yep, there aren't any for me to get me interested on Day 1, and I can tell you for a fact that if/when I pick up one of these consoles, at least based on how things are now, it won't be through All-Access, simply because I wouldn't be confident enough to commit to two years of a console only for Microsoft first party titles (for me personally, third party will still likely be played on PS5).

We know how many delays there are in this industry, we've seen COVID devastate release and development plans, and most importantly for me: we haven't seen Microsoft hit any sort of stride with their their acquired studios.

Until those games start getting churned out on a regular basis and are performing well critically, why would I commit to two years of a slate we seriously know so little of? I use Netflix daily right now, but I don't think I'd pick up a two year subscription even if they did offer one.

I don't know if I'd be interested in Netflix's offering two years from now, and likewise, it's hard to say where Xbox Game Studios will be in two years, too. 

Edited September 9, 2020 by Julius

[Will]

2 hours ago, Julius said:

As someone who works for a bank, let me put it this way: you want a £600 loan which you can pay back over two years? That's not the most exorbitant amount - so why don't you have the funds to cover it as is?

It's a bit of a red flag for me, so I'm curious to see how potential lenders might view it if you end up missing payments and potentially defaulting over a console. Then again, I've seen this is Klarna they're doing it through - I'm also curious how they view similar habits with clothing and other things they provide finance for. I'm sure people will mention smartphones and such too, but honestly I feel that in the first world communication is becoming more of a necessity. At the end of the day, this shouldn't be a priority expense like that perhaps should be (below actual living expenses, of course). 

Personally, I think it's a dangerous game to play today, with so many only just starting to return to work, knowing that another lockdown could put them back in a hole they've just struggled out of. My general, totally objective advice (for this, and honestly just lending in general): only take out credit in instances where you could comfortably clear it with boosted payments of your own accord, and only if you're wise with your money as it is, with the disposable income to very easily support it. 

Probably not necessary to hear for many here - and again, Game Pass Ultimate bundled in with that is a great deal - but why do I foresee thousands of students throwing their maintenance loans or maxed out overdrafts at this and somehow finding themselves falling into arrears? 

I think your concerns are right, but most people won't consider this as credit and certainly won't do any sort of solid financial analysis. The reality is people will be in Game, thinking about a console to buy, and some sales assistant is going to come over to them, tell them it's 20/30 quid a month interest free and they'll just go for it. Places like Brighthouse (I have no idea if this still exists but it was big when I still lived in the UK) have been using this type of tactic for years and people love being able to get this easy credit to buy their toys.

As many people have mentioned you can get a much better deal, so long as you have the money to cover the outlay, which many people don't. It's also a very small number of people who will look into these tricks to get things for the lower price. Most of them are just going to hear how the combo is better than individual, realize they can have the next-gen right now for basically nothing and jump on it.

I still think it's a fantastic deal, but I think the key thing it shows is how worried Microsoft are about Sony's lead on the content side and potentially falling so far behind in the early phase of the generation that they are beaten before the fight even begins. They have no choice but to offer these crazy deals as they really don't have anything else going for them.

I had precisely zero interest in an Xbox before these prices were announced. If the subscription deals extend internationally I'll probably just get one as it's such a small outlay.

I do think Sony are going to surprise a few people and actually compete with these prices, in the current climate there is no way they can compete if it's $1,000 for a console with some games and accessories vs. $50 a month at the point of sale.

[Kaepora_Gaebora]

@Julius

Tech Radar have a bit of a financial breakdown Here that outlines what the deals are, and the penalties; looks like two missed payments and your APR goes from 0% to about 25% and you start getting fined etc.

Let's be honest, they're absolutely banking (lulz) on looking like the cheaper option, I bet the Klarna credit checks are simple as anything...and then they'll be an element of hoping people don't make the payments so they get that extra money from them!

[Cube]

Klara used to be quite strict on their 12 month interest free credit, but since the pandemic started we've (my workplace).had a lot more applications and none have been rejected.

We have no control over what happens with missed payments or anything like that though. We just get given the money a few weeks minis a (rather large) fee. 

Of course, Microsoft are slightly bigger than the local bed shop I work at, so they may have an account that lets them profit off missed payments.

[Mandalore]

12 hours ago, Julius said:

So, I've had a bit of time to digest this all, and I'm stuck in the middle on how exactly I feel. I hope I don't sound too harsh, and before I even start my rambling, I do genuinely hope Xbox delivers on all of this and kills it next gen. It's better for me as a gamer, and people get to keep their jobs. It's a win-win if that happens. 

On the one hand, those prices are insanely good. £449 for the Series X and £249 for the Series S is pretty bonkers! For the hardware you're getting it shows just how serious Xbox are about this gen...but I'm struggling to see how they're making money back, haemorrhaging money on both the hardware and software point (strictly from a Game Pass point of view - and honestly, I think you'd be almost silly not to jump on Game Pass, of course depending on finances and actual interest in what's available). 

I think it's a bit worrying for the future of the gaming industry if Microsoft 'wins' next gen and Sony 'loses'. It seems like Microsoft is creating a false economy and could end up pricing Sony out of the industry. 

Can Sony afford for PS5 to fail? And what message is the industry getting from consumers if they appear to be happy buying a brand new console which only plays old/last-gen games slightly better at launch?

[Ronnie]

Just seen the Series X price, very nice!

A stark difference to the £600/£700 price tag DCubed suggested a while back.

[Dcubed]

48 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Just seen the Series X price, very nice!

A stark difference to the £600/£700 price tag DCubed suggested a while back.

Defo! I honestly did expect that price range, so I was stunned when I saw the actual price!
Make no mistake, the hardware IS worth that much.  Microsoft will be losing mad amounts of cash on this!

[Cube]

Updated the topic, I presume "Xbox Series" is the normal name for the console. Or is it just "Xbox"?

[Sheikah]

3 minutes ago, Cube said:

Updated the topic, I presume "Xbox Series" is the normal name for the console. Or is it just "Xbox"?

I'm confused, what's the Xbox Series? We don't need any more confusion Cube!

[Happenstance]

Which series is this? I don’t want to start a show in the middle!

[Goafer]

39 minutes ago, Cube said:

Updated the topic, I presume "Xbox Series" is the normal name for the console. Or is it just "Xbox"?

This is a really good question actually. What is the collective name for this generation of Xbox? 

The more I think about the Xbox branding, the more I think it was decided on by someone who had lots of ideas, but no fucking clue.

Ask yourself this: If you asked someone to buy you the Xbox Series X for Christmas, like a lot of people will be, do you 100% trust that person not to accidentally buy the Xbox One X? Does it pass the "parent test"? The common person has no idea what the difference between the word "One" and "Series" means in this context.

IMO, there are only 2 ways to name consoles: numbered like Sony or completely different names like Nintendo. Both are perfectly fine. One is better at building a brand, the other is more exciting. What Microsoft have done is like a shit mixture of both. Like someone couldn't make a decision and just fucked it all up.

[Sheikah]

I don't know what it's supposed to be but for the topic title at least, "Xbox Series" sounds incomplete.

I think "Xbox Series S / X" (or "Xbox Series S | X", like Microsoft put it sometimes) works better.

 

[Happenstance]

I hope they release a Series E as well so we can reach our immature potential and have the title as Xbox Series S | E | X