UK General Election 2019 - Voting on 12th Dec

[Goafer]

It's like they're all trying to be human, but can't quite get the nuances down.

[LazyBoy]

Analysis below of the leaked trade talks between Trump's team and the Conservatives:

 

Quote

Trade campaigners have welcomed the release of leaked papers detailing trade talks between the Trump administration and British government officials, which show the US government pushing Britain into as hard a Brexit as possible because they see this as the best way of benefiting the US economy. This comes at the expense of standards, protections and livelihoods in Britain.

The leaked papers show US officials calling Theresa May’s ‘Chequers proposal’ for Brexit a “worst case scenario” because it would not allow a sufficient changes to British food standards to give US agriculture increased penetration into British markets.

One of the biggest changes Boris Johnson’s made to May’s Brexit proposal was to remove the long-term linking of British and European standards, threatening food and other standards under a US trade deal. The papers show that Johnson made these changes despite economic modelling which suggested this scenario would be good for the US but bad for Britain.

The details are leaked versions of the secret papers detailing trade talks between US and British negotiators which were previously only released in highly redacted form and were condemned by Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn as part of the first general election debate. Analysis by Global Justice Now says the papers also show:

• The US pushing lower food standards on Britain post Brexit, including allowing imports of chlorine-washed chickens, less nutritional labelling on foods, and less protection for regional food like stilton cheese. The US offered to help the UK government ‘sell’ chlorine chicken to a sceptical British public and stated that parliamentary scrutiny of food standards is ‘unhelpful’.
• The US banning any mention of climate change in a US-UK trade deal.
• US officials threatening UK civil servants that they would undermine US trade talks if they supported certain EU positions in international forums  
• The US suggesting a ‘corporate court system’ in a US-UK deal, which would allow big business to sue the British government, in secret and without appeal, for anything they regard as ‘unfair’. Recent similar cases have included suing governments for trying to phase out use of coal.
• US officials pushing a far reaching proposals on the digital economy, giving Big Tech companies like Facebook, Google and Amazon sweeping freedoms to move and use our online data, which would make taxation and regulation of these companies more difficult and prohibit Labour proposals for a public broadband service.
• Threats to public services like the NHS, via sweeping services liberalisation. The British government would need to exclude everything not subject to liberalisation in order to protect public services, while bringing formerly public services like the mail, or rail companies back into public ownership would be much harder.
• US officials making a further threat to NHS in terms of medicine pricing policy, with special concern about Brits paying more for cancer medicines which the US feels Britain doesn’t pay enough for. Trade negotiators have received special lobbying from pharmaceutical corporations as part of the trade talks.
• US officials demanding US experts and multinational corporations are able to participate in standard-setting in Britain post Brexit.
• A promise by both sides to keep talks secret from the public.

That last one is always a good sign.

 

EDIT: oops, forgot the source: 

https://www.globaljustice.org.uk/news/2019/nov/27/explosive-leaked-trade-papers-show-nhs-chlorinated-chicken-already-table-us-trade

Edited November 27, 2019 by LazyBoy

[Kav]

Andrew Neil is a fantastic interviewer.

He made both Corbyn & Sturgeon look awful... god knows what he’ll do to Boris if he finally agrees to the interview!

 

Also, BIG news on the NHS... Government trade talks with the US that stipulate the NHS & drug pricing is on the table have been leaked, unredacted.

 

EDIT: ah, beaten to it.

Edited November 27, 2019 by Kav

[Dcubed]

The document is now online: Here

That document is fucking grim... As an NHS nurse myself, it makes my skin just utterly crawl...

 

God help us all of the tories get in.  The country is completely doomed unless Labour manage to pull off a miracle  

Edited November 27, 2019 by Dcubed

[Ganepark32]

That document really does make for some truly horrendous reading. Even just off of the bullet points here it's bad but seeing some of what's been dug out of the document make you just want to cry.

It was always an inevitability that any trade deal proposal between the US and the UK would heavily favour the US. We have no ground to stand on in the negotiation, even less so out of the EU, so it was always going to look horrific but it's the stuff of nightmares and God help us all if that comes to fruition. It's not just what would happen to the NHS and drug prices (something that would have a major impact on myself and my family) but ideas like letting US "experts" and multinationalists (i.e. corporate entities) set standards is horrifying given the considerable issues that the US and many of its states face with regards to the upkeep of their own infrastructure (something which would presumably be majorly affected by this kind of deal over here).

With the media circus out in full force pulling Labour and Jeremy Corbyn down all while Boris is virtually getting a free pass despite it clearly being shown he and his party are lying on multiple accounts with their manifesto and that he is an ardent, unapologetic racist, I'm beginning to lose hope that there'll be any other outcome than a (small) Tory majority with this election and it's genuinely scary to think of that.

I've yet to have any campaign material through my door from any party but I know already that my vote for Labour will be wasted up here as everyone will most likely vote for the SNP and in all honesty, with it being a UK general election, voting for them is a waste as they can't get anything done in Westminster and even if it comes to a coalition, I still doubt they'll gain as much ground as they hope they can, especially in regards to Indyref2 which admittedly I'm slowly warming to given the current climate (though I've still not seen a truly convincing argument for it that doesn't leave us in a somewhat precarious position). All I can do is vote and hope that there is a miracle and Labour end the night with more seats than the Tories and can strike a coalition for a majority government.

[Kav]

The BBC haven’t exactly covered themselves in glory this Election with their “mistakes” (bias) but the Tories have taken shithousery to new levels seen in British politics, so much so that even Facebook are banning Tory propaganda (fake news).

 

[Dcubed]

Pretty ironic considering that the BBC have basically been a propaganda outlet for the Tories throughout this entire election.

[Beast]

I really don't understand how the Tories got in in the first place. And if they get in again, well, the mind boggles.

Speaking to the people I know who do vote Tory are saying they want Brexit done. What did they think? Did they think it was only going to take a week? Pack up a suitcase and just fuck off? They want to vote Labour now but they don't trust Corbyn. Whether or not you trust Corbyn, all I know is you can DEFINITELY NEVER TRUST JOHNSON.

My main point was always that the Brexit campaign was dirty and full of lies. Even after, the Tories had said a lot of shit would happen and they've either been lying through their teeth or it ends in disasters.

Fact of the matter is is that we have all had a glimpse of a future under Tory rule. Lies, bullshit and hypocrisy. I'm just not looking forward to my future at all if Johnson runs again. He's like Trump 2.0 and I honestly think they will fuck this country right up. Especially for the working class. I just hope the youth get the fingers out of their arses and vote and I hope the working class who vote Tory realise they're being played, that they're not actually part of the rich and they're being screwed over. 

Edited December 3, 2019 by Animal

[bob]

Can't trust Corbyn, because he's all of these things!

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1201581431371247616.html

 

 

[Kav]

22 minutes ago, bob said:

Can't trust Corbyn, because he's all of these things!

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1201581431371247616.html

 

 

This thread is all kinds of amazing!

Perfectly highlights the rank hypocrisy and bias of the Media!

[bob]

This thread is all kinds of amazing!
Perfectly highlights the rank hypocrisy and bias of the Media!

Its great, it means i can reinforce whatever view i have of Corbyn anyway i want, and back it up with news articles!

[Beast]

Sharing that on Twitter! Finally, someone who's actually captured what I've been telling everybody all along WITH ACTUAL EVIDENCE. But still, sadly, people will allow themselves to be manipulated. Hopefully they will see through the lies.

 

....I really hope...

[Kav]

 

[Kav]

This is a must-read on the Media’s disinformation!

https://bylinetimes.com/2019/12/10/trolls-sock-puppets-and-useful-idiots-an-anatomy-of-an-election-disinformation-campaign/

[Ganepark32]

Went out and voted at 8 this morning as if managed to convince my partner and my sister in law to vote and with both of them working night shift tonight, we had to go early. But done my part and now I wait to see if things don't play out as the polls suggest it will. Tactically voted for SNP here and it should be a safe seat but while the constituency I'm in is working class and quite impoverished, it also includes a lot of areas that are upper middle class as well and I know there'll be a strong Tory vote from both parts so although the seat should be safe for SNP I just wanted to make sure it stayed out of Tory hands. Labour will get nowhere in my area so I had to go with the SNP in the hope that there is a hung parliament and that Labour can make a deal with gains elsewhere.

I'm just hoping it isn't going to be as bad as people are predicting because I don't think I can handle a Boris led majority. If that happens, god help us.

[Pestneb]

Tbh God help the UK whatever the outcome. No one knows what the outcome will mean, even with a majority Boris is liable to kick enough people out to give himself a minority

On Brexit only, I do think Corbyn offers the best option, a referendum on an actual deal or remaining in the EU. I've heard "threats" of unrest if that happens and remain wins, but I imagine unrest is what the UK will look like for the next decade, even if politicians get their act together right now.

Anyway, my main hope is that the right candidates get seats in parliament and that they show wisdom, foresight, integrity, tolerance, intelligence, and respect when they take on their roles. Wonder if Boris will win his seat....

[Cube]

A few people smashing up their own towns, bragging about it an social media and getting jailed is a far better outcome than what Brexit will do.

[Kav]

Reports of a high youth turnout so far is good... I’m hopeful!

[Dog-amoto]

I voted Tory this morning. 
On my way out, I also took a massive shit on a child’s school desk. 

[killthenet]

I feel pretty good about my local Labour MP retaining his seat but I am feeling pretty nervous about the national result. I keep telling myself that the polls are often wrong but seeing that Boris is predicted to win a comfortable majority I can't help dreading the worst.

Don't think I've ever anticipated an exit poll as much as I am this years.

[Nicktendo]

Is the exit poll at 10pm GMT or 11pm?

Im two hours ahead so probably not going to pull an all nighter like I did last time. But I might wake up early and try and catch the end of it. I moved away from Labour in the last couple of years, given up my membership, but got my mum to proxy vote for me as they’re  the best chance of taking the seat away from the Tories where I used to live. It’s very close, think there was only a 2% margin in it last time.  

I’m much more to the centre right now, but I absolutely despise everything about this Tory government and Johnson is a car crash. Easily the worst PM we’ve ever had. I hope he gets the boot he deserves. The country needs fixing not even taking Brexit into account. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by Nicktendo

[bob]

Is the exit poll at 10pm GMT or 11pm?
Im two hours ahead so probably not going to pull an all nighter like I did last time. But I might wake up early and try and catch the end of it. I moved away from Labour in the last couple of years, given up my membership, but got my mum to proxy vote for me as they’re  the best chance of taking the seat away from the Tories where I used to live. It’s very close, think there was only a 2% margin in it last time.  
I’m much more to the centre right now, but I absolutely despise everything about this Tory government and Johnson is a car crash. Easily the worst PM we’ve ever had. I hope he gets the boot he deserves. The country needs fixing not even taking Brexit into account. 

10pm. Or shortly after.

[Glen-i]

Exit polls place Tories at 368 seats, giving them a majority.

[killthenet]

I hope to Christ that the exit poll is incorrect for once, otherwise the future looks pretty grim.

[Kav]