Playstation 5 Console Discussion

[Ashley]

I could see them maybe doing the 1TB hard-drive for £500 and 2TB for £600.

[Ronnie]

I get that these consoles are super powerful beasts of terraflops and stuff, but Playstation got ridiculed for their PS3 price tag, and it took years for them to claw lost ground back, are they really going to risk another disaster like that with a price over £500? Even £500 seems steep though I suppose 1 grand giant phones have maybe desensitised people to spending a lot.

Edited June 10, 2020 by Ronnie

[Ike]

A small percentage of people probably drop the full amount at once and drop £1000 to buy the phone outright though, the ability to pay over a longer period makes it a bit easier to swallow. I don't think most people tend to buy the high-end flagships and it's usually the people who are more into that sort of thing.

I believe Microsoft introduced a pay monthly scheme recently with thew Xbox One so maybe Sony will do something similar, but i think the Microsoft deal was only through their store. Don't know if it will be easy doing deals with other retailers to provide those sort of options.

[killthenet]

I don't think the high price point was the only contributing factor to the PS3's slow start though @Ronnie, the complex architechture took developers a long time to get their heads around and even then it was only the first party studios that were able to take advantage of it. If the PS5 is £600 at minimum it will definitely put some people off but developers will at least be in a position to take advantage of the extra power so there will undoubtedly be compelling exclusives to convince consumers to pick up the system at launch.

[Sheikah]

I get that these consoles are super powerful beasts of terraflops and stuff, but Playstation got ridiculed for their PS3 price tag, and it took years for them to claw lost ground back, are they really going to risk another disaster like that with a price over £500? Even £500 seems steep though I suppose 1 grand giant phones have maybe desensitised people to spending a lot.

It's interesting you say that when Xbox One X released at just £50 less - I'm guessing you never found that prohibitively expensive? And that was just for a mid generation refresh with only a few years left before the next consoles would replace it. And that didn't even have an SSD! Positioned like that, if next gen consoles end up being £500 then that will be good value for money by comparison.

 

I think the One X probably sold moderately well, so that's likely a good indicator of how things are now. People now are more conditioned to spend.

 

Also back when PS3 launched, 599 USD was a lot, and a lot more than the competition. The base 360 model was only $299! Half the price, which is insane. Now we can expect both consoles to be priced high because of the similar tech they both have, so I don't think we can expect the same situation again.

[Goron_3]

£499 was listed alongside a 500GB and 1TB console and we know neither are happening (Cerny confirmed the standard hard drive is 850GB ish).

If £500 happens it will be for a higher capacity SKU. I imagine the base console will be around £425/450 each. XSX and Lockhart will be a bit above that and a bit below respectively imo.

[Sheikah]

£499 was listed alongside a 500GB and 1TB console and we know neither are happening (Cerny confirmed the standard hard drive is 850GB ish).

If £500 happens it will be for a higher capacity SKU. I imagine the base console will be around £425/450 each. XSX and Lockhart will be a bit above that and a bit below respectively imo.

Interesting, it's a Goron vs Dcubed price guess showdown. Let me grab the popcorn. [emoji14]

[Goron_3]

15 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

Interesting, it's a Goron vs Dcubed price guess showdown. Let me grab the popcorn.

I can't see £500 being the pricing floor as @Dcubed suggested as that translates to close to $600+ and that's before tax. Sony won't release a $700 console in the USA.

Also, Sony are making huge sums of money from PSN and digital downloads (more than Nintendo and Xbox profits combined). This will be even more the case when PS5 launches because from day one, hundreds of games will be available and won't cost anything in terms of development. As such, Sony will make huge profits on any game sold. They can easily take a loss. 

Edit. I should point out that I don't think we'll get a price tomorrow.

 

 

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Goron_3

[Ronnie]

5 hours ago, Sheikah said:

It's interesting you say that when Xbox One X released at just £50 less - I'm guessing you never found that prohibitively expensive?

Different situation. The Xbox One X was a premium product that was marketed as a more powerful Xbox One, a luxury meant for hardcore gamers. It was also, as you say £50 cheaper. These new consoles are the base hardware of a brand new generation. It's a very different sell.

[Will]

I've (based on absolutely nothing other than unguided guesses) been expecting a price point of $500 in the US. What that would translate to could be anything but I'd guess £500 given the artistic licence people seem to take with exchange rates nowadays. I'm setting aside $1,000 in the hope that will get me a decent selection of stuff on launch day.

[Ashley]

11 hours ago, Ronnie said:

I get that these consoles are super powerful beasts of terraflops and stuff, but Playstation got ridiculed for their PS3 price tag, and it took years for them to claw lost ground back, are they really going to risk another disaster like that with a price over £500? Even £500 seems steep though I suppose 1 grand giant phones have maybe desensitised people to spending a lot.

£425 in 2007 is £600 in 2019 so £500 would actually be cheaper than the PS3 when adjusted for inflation. 

Although the most depressing thing about checking that was seeing the EU price as €600 and missing the days before we tanked our currency. 

[Happenstance]

With the rumours at the moment that Persona 3 and Persona 4 Golden are being released on PC I wonder if they’re also coming to PS5 and could be announced on today’s stream.

[Julius]

54 minutes ago, Happenstance said:

With the rumours at the moment that Persona 3 and Persona 4 Golden are being released on PC I wonder if they’re also coming to PS5 and could be announced on today’s stream.

Oh man, I loved Persona 5 and even though I've already paid for Persona 4 Golden on Vita, I haven't played it yet, and would much rather play it on a TV  not sure if they'd show it here though? Imagine Atlus would potentially save them for the New Game Plus Expo on the 23rd. 

5 hours ago, will' said:

I've (based on absolutely nothing other than unguided guesses) been expecting a price point of $500 in the US. What that would translate to could be anything but I'd guess £500 given the artistic licence people seem to take with exchange rates nowadays. I'm setting aside $1,000 in the hope that will get me a decent selection of stuff on launch day.

I've been putting money aside for an £850 budget by the time November rolls around. Been putting a bit here and there into a savings pot the last few months - remember doing similar when I got a PS2 when I was younger! 

I've based my budget on hopefully a maximum RRP for the console of £599, a maximum of three AAA games at £60 (doubt I'll pick up three games at launch, but worst case I only pick up one or two and the extra goes towards some accessories or something), and an extra DualSense at £70 (though I could see that being slightly more). 

Doubt we're getting price or pre-orders later though, but fingers crossed for that to come soon. It's a really weird situation where I feel like more eyes will be on the PS5 tomorrow as a result of people staying in the last few months than might have otherwise been the case, and I feel like that will be the same case when pre-orders do go live, but at the same time, a lot of people watching are unfortunately either going to be out of work or on furlough (which is a really risky position too) and the world economy isn't doing great. I doubt it'll happen given PlayStation have got much better with their messaging since, but now certainly isn't the time for a gaffe akin to "you'll work two jobs to buy the PS3". 

I feel like this is exactly why Sony would be wise to follow the pay monthly context route for the PS5 that @Ike and @Dcubed have mentioned before, even if not necessarily at launch (given that stock will sell regardless). It just gives more people the opportunity to buy in as an alternative to the usual lump sum deal, which is going to be even less affordable to most than it would normally be. 

[Sheikah]

Different situation. The Xbox One X was a premium product that was marketed as a more powerful Xbox One, a luxury meant for hardcore gamers. It was also, as you say £50 cheaper. These new consoles are the base hardware of a brand new generation. It's a very different sell.

It's only £50 cheaper but if you account for inflation it's only £20 cheaper. So the £50 cheaper argument disappears. 

And you're right it's a different sell, but in a good way. This is a new generation meant to last for 7+ years, with better tech like SSDs. In that way it's a lot easier to sell a more expensive console than it was the Xbox One X in 2017. They also only need to sell to so many people at that price (i.e. early adopters). The price will eventually go down after a couple of years.

 

Mobile phones are also mainstream products and more expensive than £500 for the most part, and replaced much more often. I don't see £500 as a launch price for the early adopters being an issue, if that ends up being the price.

 

That said, it honestly wouldn't surprise me if Sony price PS5 less than this. Microsoft will have a cheaper model as another option so it would make sense if Sony price their console lower than the Series X.

[Goron_3]

7 hours ago, Ronnie said:

Different situation. The Xbox One X was a premium product that was marketed as a more powerful Xbox One, a luxury meant for hardcore gamers. It was also, as you say £50 cheaper. These new consoles are the base hardware of a brand new generation. It's a very different sell.

Worth remembering that launch consoles target the hardcore gamers and not the mainstream (google 'diffusion of technological innovation graphs'). The PS5 and XSX will be premium products from day one. Even the PS4 will still sell bucketloads this winter because it will be the mass market product at a much lower price point.

For what it's worth, I reckon Lockhart will be around £299/£329. A 1080p next gen machine around £100 cheaper than a PS5 is a pretty decent purchase.

[drahkon]

What exactly is this Lockheart that keeps being thrown around?

[Goron_3]

8 minutes ago, drahkon said:

What exactly is this Lockheart that keeps being thrown around?

A number of reliable insiders (including the Digital Foundry team) have said that Microsoft are releasing two next gen Xbox's. One that is a super high end, 4K device but also one that is has the exact same CPU, SSD but a weaker GPU that will focus on 1080p (or even 1440p) versions of next gen games. It will allow MS to offer a cheaper jump into next gen for those that either want a XB as a secondary console or perhaps don't have a TV to take advantage o the XSX or PS5.

 

[Dcubed]

14 hours ago, Ronnie said:

I get that these consoles are super powerful beasts of terraflops and stuff, but Playstation got ridiculed for their PS3 price tag, and it took years for them to claw lost ground back, are they really going to risk another disaster like that with a price over £500? Even £500 seems steep though I suppose 1 grand giant phones have maybe desensitised people to spending a lot.

2006 was a long time ago.  We live in a completely different world now; where people don’t even bat an eyelid at dropping £1,000+ on a smartphone.  $599.99 is no longer the psychological barrier it once was.

The worldwide economy (never even mind the British economy post-Brexit!) is also currently circling the drain; AND we have an unprecedented worldwide pandemic going on right now - meaning the production costs are rocketing upwards as well.

There’s no way that they can possibly hit the same price points as with previous consoles, but perhaps they don’t even need to... Also, you know, people are used to buying expensive electronics on contract now and I fully expect Microsoft to take advantage of this by bundling the Series X/S hardware with Gamepass as a subscription (as for Sony? I don’t think they’re ready to take this step yet).

[Ronnie]

1 hour ago, Sheikah said:

It's only £50 cheaper but if you account for inflation it's only £20 cheaper. So the £50 cheaper argument disappears. 

You're the one who said it was £50 cheaper in the first place, till Ashley brought up inflation. Not that anyone actually considers inflation when the timeframe is just three years anyway. In terms of mindshare £50 is 2017 may as well be £50 in 2020 to most people.

Point is you can't compare a luxury product meant for hardcore gamers with the base model of a new gen. The price needs to be much more accessible in the latter's case. So no, I didn't find a super powerful console like the Xbox One X to be prohibitively expensive. Playstation were ridiculed at the PS3 launch, for a number of reasons, but price was a big one, they could get away with £500 for the PS5 but any more than that...

1 hour ago, Sheikah said:

with better tech like SSDs.

Better tech isn't a reason why prices should increase, it's expected. Otherwise the PS5 should be 100x what the NES cost.

 

Edited June 11, 2020 by Ronnie

[drahkon]

I've just noticed that the N-E chat is no longer Here I thought some of us could get together and relive some E3 memories

[Ashley]

8 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Not that anyone actually considers inflation when the timeframe is just three years anyway. In terms of mindshare £50 is 2017 may as well be £50 in 2020 to most people.

Better tech isn't a reason why prices should increase, it's expected. Otherwise the PS5 should be 100x what the NES cost.

 

The three years we've just had perhaps they should!  But no, I don't think anyone will factor in inflation in that time period.

Although its tech improvements in context. If the PS5 was the only piece of technology to have evolved since 1989 and every other piece of tech (computers, phones etc) then yes, it would cost 100 times what the NES did, but these things exist in a context and a lot has changed in the 30 years to mean elements are cheaper (plastic, packaging, distribution etc) while some other things are more expensive (those damned terraflops).

And because everyone was wondering the NES adjusted for inflation was £240 so it means the PS5 could be about double the cost.

Let's wait until tonight and then have this conversation again tomorrow because I imagine it will be September time before we get prices.

[Ganepark32]

1 hour ago, Goron_3 said:

A number of reliable insiders (including the Digital Foundry team) have said that Microsoft are releasing two next gen Xbox's. One that is a super high end, 4K device but also one that is has the exact same CPU, SSD but a weaker GPU that will focus on 1080p (or even 1440p) versions of next gen games. It will allow MS to offer a cheaper jump into next gen for those that either want a XB as a secondary console or perhaps don't have a TV to take advantage o the XSX or PS5.

 

It's off topic obviously but with regards to Lockhart, if it is indeed happening, I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft repurposed the Xbox One X for the basis of what it'll be. That console can safely manage 1080p and in some cases 4K so seems like a good basis to work from, especially given the work that went into developing that chipset. Outfitting that with their SSD solution as is would probably be the easiest way to make lower cost next gen hardware that sticks to the architecture they and developers are accustomed to (would make scalability of games across Lockhart and XSX easier to handle as well).

Obviously theres more to it than that but I could see them doing that as it would certainly keep the cost down on production and allow them to launch it at a price tag that was/is inline with the current pricing of the Xbox One X. Discontinue the older One variants and leave the One X as the sole last gen console they're selling (but give initial compatibility for first party games across the whole suite of One consoles for the first year or so in line with their plan) and re-market the One X as their "budget" hardware, Lockhart as the gateway to next gen and then Series X as the big budget, full bells and whistle hardware. That's my two cents anyway on it.

Anyway, looking forward to the event later. From my perspective, I think I'm ready for new hardware. My PS4 has seen a lot of use since I got it for the original Destiny in 2014 and I'm tired of having to deal with the loudness of the thing when playing games now so I just want the new hardware and a better cooling solution (the easiest of which is to move the PSU outside the box but I get people don't want bulky plugs behind their setups at home). Obviously we'll find out more about the actual console and stuff later, its more about the games tonight and I'm just as excited to see the new Sony Worldwide Studios titles I'll be playing on the hardware, as well as seeing what third parties will bring to the table.

I'm hoping for some big surprises and hoping that things don't start to leak (theres already something doing the rounds with regards to a leak of new merch for a particular IP that heavily hints towards a new entry in that franchise from a third party, that's as specific as I'll be so as not to spoil in the event its real). Should be a good showing though, with plenty for everyone that's for sure.

[Sheikah]

1 hour ago, Ronnie said:

You're the one who said it was £50 cheaper in the first place, till Ashley brought up inflation. Not that anyone actually considers inflation when the timeframe is just three years anyway. In terms of mindshare £50 is 2017 may as well be £50 in 2020 to most people.

What does who brought up inflation have to do with anything? 

The price difference is small whether you account for inflation or not (and you should account for it, because that's how money works). But this isn't the point here. £450 sold fine to enthusiasts in 2017, so we can expect £500 to do the same trick in 2020. And early adopters are nothing if not enthusiasts.

Quote

Point is you can't compare a luxury product meant for hardcore gamers with the base model of a new gen.

Yes you can. As others have also said to you, at launch it is targeting enthusiasts. Once the price drops in a few years it becomes more mainstream.

If you look at total console sales at the end of the life of a console, only a small sliver will be sold in the first year.

I'm not saying price doesn't matter but they will price in line with their competition. Their main priority will be appearing good value compared to the competition, and less about being good value in the minds of bargain hunters. 

Quote

The price needs to be much more accessible in the latter's case. So no, I didn't find a super powerful console like the Xbox One X to be prohibitively expensive. Playstation were ridiculed at the PS3 launch, for a number of reasons, but price was a big one, they could get away with £500 for the PS5 but any more than that...

As others have said the world was very different at the PS3 launch so this is no longer a valid comparison.

Quote

Better tech isn't a reason why prices should increase, it's expected. Otherwise the PS5 should be 100x what the NES cost.

But you just said we can't consider inflation when comparing the Xbox One X and PS5? Which means, keeping price comparisons constant, we should expect the PS5 to be a lot more expensive than the One X since it has better tech like an SSD. If it ended up being £500 then that's not much more expensive, and would appear very good value in comparison.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Sheikah

[Dcubed]

38 minutes ago, Ganepark32 said:

It's off topic obviously but with regards to Lockhart, if it is indeed happening, I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft repurposed the Xbox One X for the basis of what it'll be. That console can safely manage 1080p and in some cases 4K so seems like a good basis to work from, especially given the work that went into developing that chipset. Outfitting that with their SSD solution as is would probably be the easiest way to make lower cost next gen hardware that sticks to the architecture they and developers are accustomed to (would make scalability of games across Lockhart and XSX easier to handle as well).

Obviously theres more to it than that but I could see them doing that as it would certainly keep the cost down on production and allow them to launch it at a price tag that was/is inline with the current pricing of the Xbox One X. Discontinue the older One variants and leave the One X as the sole last gen console they're selling (but give initial compatibility for first party games across the whole suite of One consoles for the first year or so in line with their plan) and re-market the One X as their "budget" hardware, Lockhart as the gateway to next gen and then Series X as the big budget, full bells and whistle hardware. That's my two cents anyway on it.

Anyway, looking forward to the event later. From my perspective, I think I'm ready for new hardware. My PS4 has seen a lot of use since I got it for the original Destiny in 2014 and I'm tired of having to deal with the loudness of the thing when playing games now so I just want the new hardware and a better cooling solution (the easiest of which is to move the PSU outside the box but I get people don't want bulky plugs behind their setups at home). Obviously we'll find out more about the actual console and stuff later, its more about the games tonight and I'm just as excited to see the new Sony Worldwide Studios titles I'll be playing on the hardware, as well as seeing what third parties will bring to the table.

I'm hoping for some big surprises and hoping that things don't start to leak (theres already something doing the rounds with regards to a leak of new merch for a particular IP that heavily hints towards a new entry in that franchise from a third party, that's as specific as I'll be so as not to spoil in the event its real). Should be a good showing though, with plenty for everyone that's for sure.

Before the leaks about Lockhart came about, that's exactly what I thought MS were going to do.  Turn the XboneX into the low-end option that runs at 720p-1080p and keep all of their games compatible on both machines for the next 3-4 years.  But it seems that they are indeed going to replace the XboneX itself with Lockhart.

I still reckon it'd be a good idea.  But who knows? Maybe they'll still be repurposing certain Xbone X parts to keep Lockhart's costs down, like the GPU and RAM? We already know that they have been harvesting UHD BD drives from the standard XboneS units (The All Digital model is literally an XboneS with the BD drive ripped out of it), so they're clearly already pulling this strategy to cut production costs of the Series X/XboneX as it is.

Either way, I find their strategy as a whole really interesting.  They're absolutely playing 5D Chess here with Sony 

But I'm really looking forward to finally seeing Sony show their hand (or at least some of it) tonight.  Can't wait to see how they respond to what MS is cooking!

Edited June 11, 2020 by Dcubed

[Ronnie]

21 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

(and you should account for it, because that's how money works)

I know it does, I'm the one who told you about inflation when I was explaining why games are cheaper than they've ever been these days. And so does Ashley, because he brought it up after your £50 cheaper comment.

21 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

£450 sold fine to enthusiasts in 2017, so we can expect £500 to do the same trick in 2020.

How many people bought an Xbox One X though really? And anyway I think £500 would be steep but just about manageable at a push. I was speaking mostly about any price over 500.

21 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

As others have said the world was very different at the PS3 launch so this is no longer a valid comparison.

Ridicule will come at any day and age, be it at the PS3 reveal or nowadays, the reasons may vary but it can still happen with one slip up. More so these days in fact with social media being everywhere.

21 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

But you just said we can't consider inflation when comparing the Xbox One X and PS5?

I said that no one has inflation in their minds when they think of a product in 2017 and a similar product in 2020. 

21 minutes ago, Sheikah said:

we should expect the PS5 to be a lot more expensive than the One X since it has better tech like an SSD. If it ended up being £500 then that's not much more expensive, and would appear very good value in comparison.

Tech improving in a new generation is a given.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Ronnie