flameboy Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 I don't think you're grasping Flameboy's point. He is arguing that, if Yu Suzuki offered PS4/PC exclusivity in exchange for the conference spot (and only that spot), then it was a pretty lousy deal, considering there have been plenty of recent examples of similar games getting funded via Kickstarter without that sort of help. The likelier explanation is what you already mentioned: Sony is helping to fund this, substantially so. Flameboy* said it was "shady" because that help most likely isn't limited to a spot at E3, and despite this, the game has already received more than 2 million dollars (maybe 3 or 4 by now) through Kickstarter for a project that doesn't actually need the backers' money. *EDIT: (Rereading the posts better, this is not what Flameboy meant by "shady". But it is still what I think, though) I can see them getting into trouble with Kickstarter if that's the case. It creates a bad precedent for people trying to raise funds for projects that don't need them. See my post didn't quite mean what you said but I certainly agree with you. It's exclusive I think it's fair to say. I even messaged the night of and they had this to say; Ys Net says: Dear Adam Thank you for your message! We're sorry, but we only have plans for PC and PS4 at the moment. K. Kitabayashi Awesome Japan Staff
Happenstance Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 To be fair, they wouldnt need to put it anywhere else :p
Fierce_LiNk Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 Buy me a PS4 and I'll never mention it again.. Haha, if I buy anyone a PS4, it'll be me as a second unit. Already tempted to pick up another for the bedroom when we finally move out of here.
MoogleViper Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 If I had that sort of money to spend on frivolous things, I probably would have forked it out for the jacket. Same. I was glad it had already been taken, because part of me would have been tempted. Deposit for a house or Ryo Hazuki's jacket...
Hogge Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 I loved the first two Shenmue games, so this is some exciting stuff. I'm however not so sure how I feel about the entire game taking place in the most primitive conceivable area in China. And that voice acting is horrendous! ... ......? I MUST BACK IT!
Ashley Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 Flicking through this thread and had some thoughts based on various things mentioned, but too lazy to go on a quoteathon. I followed the Veronica Mars kickstarter pretty closely (never would have guessed eh?) and there were some discussions around that project that I see here; 1) Couldn't these people fund it themselves? Perhaps, but also perhaps not. We don't know how much they earned, how much they have to spend for personal upkeep, how expensive it would be for them to get the rights, software etc in the first place before even spending money on the game etc etc. Hell Sega may have dictated that there's some kind of studio backing and it's not just all crowdfunded for fear of soiling a reputation. It's easy to assume people that, in your eyes, have been successful in the past just have mountains of money to spend on personal projects but there's got to be a reason they haven't done it in the past. 2) Why aren't Sony putting money into it? As said by others, we don't actually know the agreement in place. Warner Brothers agreed to fund some of the money and handle the distribution if they met the fund target. This meant the money that was submitted by fans went on the project not on the boring business stuff around it. Sony is presumably helping with the boring stuff and letting these guys get on with making a game they want to make with less worry about all the other bits that go with actually putting a game out. 3) Too many 'investors' Again, depends what kind of agreement is in place. I've not read the KS in much detail. Is it said in there how much input fans can have? If it's just doing surveys they could ignore the results anyway and, as wrong as it would be, they could just be fanservice to say they've asked and considered input. That's a good point with the $29 digital copy, but I mean they know there are people willing to pay silly amounts, $200 and more, to ensure they get this game. Yeah, they get a few extra bits of memorabilia for that, but I have no doubt they could get this published with a traditional business model. Getting some money from the fans now does reduce the risk on the project, for sure, but it just leaves a little sour taste in my mouth. And the stretch goals on offer aren't exactly stellar - subtitles in different languages, something that would be standard with a global release anyway. You could argue it's a better way (from a business POV) than doing special editions this way. Working in Game I saw many special editions with ridiculous extras sit on shelves until slashed in price to clear them out. At least this way they have a better sense of who wants extras and can reduce unnecessary spend.
Retro_Link Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) If they actually made this game look like a Dreamcast game, harkening it back to the time when the game perhaps should have originally come out, using those character models, and environments, in it's own weird way that would be just as cool. It would feel more like a Shenmue collection than having this huge gap and Shenmue III looking completely alien to the other two. The Kickstarter trailer gives an impression of this to an extent, but if it means we get the game for an affordable budget, just give me those Shenmue I & II assets, the same bad voice acting and make as many more games as you need to complete the story. It would feel like Shenmue. Where as a 'next-gen' Shenmue might just feel and look weird (which even that strange online Shenmue thing did). Edited June 18, 2015 by Retro_Link
Goafer Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Same. I was glad it had already been taken, because part of me would have been tempted. Deposit for a house or Ryo Hazuki's jacket... That's the worrying thing. Because we've been saving for a house and the associated furnishings etc, I could have afforded it without having to sacrifice the house deposit. We'd be without furniture, but the jacket would keep me warm and comfortable. Luckily it was gone before I saw it. Its easy for me to say I wouldn't have bought it now that it's gone, but if the temptation was there, I can't say I'd definitely decline it.
Dog-amoto Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 I really don't understand this Kickstarter malarkey. Perhaps someone can answer these questions, also applies to stuff like Yooka Laylee as well. Please don't take anything I say in a bad way, it's just I really don't get it. 1. What stage of development is the game in? Is it just a concept at this stage, or have they actually made any of it? How long between them getting the money and it being released? 2. I see people pledging silly amounts. Why? I take it you'll get the game for "free" when it does come out, but why pledge more than what you would pay for the game? 3. What's to stop people who want the game just sit back, let all the other suckers make the pledges and then buy the game at the lower cost/preowned when it comes out? It's the same with that Kung Fury film a load of people were going on about. Others have funded it, and I can just watch it for free.
Sheikah Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 1. What stage of development is the game in? Is it just a concept at this stage, or have they actually made any of it? How long between them getting the money and it being released? I think it's a very early stage with not much done at all. 2. I see people pledging silly amounts. Why? I take it you'll get the game for "free" when it does come out, but why pledge more than what you would pay for the game? Extra stuff - see the things you get down the right hand side for each tier of funding. 3. What's to stop people who want the game just sit back, let all the other suckers make the pledges and then buy the game at the lower cost/preowned when it comes out? It's the same with that Kung Fury film a load of people were going on about. Others have funded it, and I can just watch it for free. Because it's cheaper to pay now than it will be on release. It's £18.22 for the digital version right now. It'll be a long time after release until it's likely that cheap. Plus you get stretch goals which mean they promise to add certain features if a specific level of funding is met (e.g. 4 million USD). And of course, the idea of helping a developer out.
Happenstance Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 I really don't understand this Kickstarter malarkey. Perhaps someone can answer these questions, also applies to stuff like Yooka Laylee as well. Please don't take anything I say in a bad way, it's just I really don't get it. 1. What stage of development is the game in? Is it just a concept at this stage, or have they actually made any of it? How long between them getting the money and it being released? 2. I see people pledging silly amounts. Why? I take it you'll get the game for "free" when it does come out, but why pledge more than what you would pay for the game? 3. What's to stop people who want the game just sit back, let all the other suckers make the pledges and then buy the game at the lower cost/preowned when it comes out? It's the same with that Kung Fury film a load of people were going on about. Others have funded it, and I can just watch it for free. 1. It depends on the Kickstarter but usually its just a concept. 2. If people are passionate about a project then they might just want to pledge more towards the funding to make sure it gets made. 3. Theres nothing to stop them doing that. The whole point is to get it made. The Kung Fury one actually told people upfront that it would be free on release. Kickstarter isnt a preorder service, its crowdfunding.
Dog-amoto Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Okay thanks for that. Like I said, I don't really understand it but now you've explained it, it makes much more sense. Also: 4. What happens in the event it doesn't reach its target? I know Shenmue III was never going to miss it, but figuratively speaking, would backers get any money back? What happens to failed Kickstarter projects?
Sheikah Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 No money is taken until the Kickstarter ends (in 29 days for Shenmue 3). If the requested amount of funding is not 100% reached when the Kickstarter ends, no money is taken and the Kickstarter fails.
Happenstance Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Once a Kickstarter is funded though and if it then fails afterwards, you dont get your money back. Thats why people need to know that its not just a preorder service.
MoogleViper Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 I'm so excited about Shenmue 3 I'm going to go and buy myself a KFC!
S.C.G Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Once a Kickstarter is funded though and if it then fails afterwards, you dont get your money back. Thats why people need to know that its not just a preorder service. How can it fail after it has been funded though? I don't quite understand... Yooka Laylee Funded, so game will be made surely that won't fail? Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night Funded, Iga won't let us down surely? Shenmue III Will surely hit all its targets, Yu Suzuki will deliver so nothing can go wrong I'd have thought? Unless you mean it fails by something catastrophic happening like the company going under, in that case yeah I suppose everyone would lose their money then.
Happenstance Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 How can it fail after it has been funded though? I don't quite understand... Yooka Laylee Funded, so game will be made surely that won't fail? Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night Funded, Iga won't let us down surely? Shenmue III Will surely hit all its targets, Yu Suzuki will deliver so nothing can go wrong I'd have thought? Unless you mean it fails by something catastrophic happening like the company going under, in that case yeah I suppose everyone would lose their money then. Any of those games you listed could just not come out for any number of reasons and there would be nothing we could do about it if we wanted our money back. Yeah the company going under would be the big one but if they came across development issues that forced them to cancel the game, that would be it as well.
S.C.G Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Any of those games you listed could just not come out for any number of reasons and there would be nothing we could do about it if we wanted our money back. Yeah the company going under would be the big one but if they came across development issues that forced them to cancel the game, that would be it as well. Oh OK, in that case I fully understand, these are real possibilities. But I have complete faith in all of the Kickstarter projects I have backed thus far. : peace: I shall not be backing any more for a while though, I don't think I could afford to.
Happenstance Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Oh OK, in that case I fully understand, these are real possibilities. But I have complete faith in all of the Kickstarter projects I have backed thus far. : peace: I shall not be backing any more for a while though, I don't think I could afford to. Yeah I was mentioning it more because people tend to think of it as a preorder service that will guarantee them that product and unfortunately thats just not the case. I've backed Bloodstained and Shenmue III and I probably wouldnt have done that if I didnt feel confident that they would get made.
Rummy Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Because they'r not getting investors, they're getting the public to pay for it with no investment back. I agree the kickstarter approach has a really disgusting taste to it and can't believe people are applauding it and sony for it. (above from zelda thread but I'm responding here to avoid clogging that) - just wanted to say in terms of 'investment back' - Kickstarters like these tend to be a mix of investment/pre-order, and people and investing and their return is the reward/product they get at the end of it. Some opt to back at just that level to get just what they want, some back less just to support, some back more to really support! I don't see why a Kickstarter can't just been seen as a new way to seeking investment/funding - to also suggest backers get nothing back is silly. You wouldn't get such successful kickstarters if everyone was just doing it out of the goodness of their hearts!
bryanee Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 Translated information from the famitsu article - He noticed that fans were getting more and more despondent about the chances of a Shenmue 3 ever coming out, and being willing to settle for just about any format (novel, manga etc.) just to see the conclusion of the story, but he really wanted to make the sequel as a game even if it didn't have all the bells and whistles he'd like to put in it. - He first learned about Kickstarter about 3 years ago through a fan who'd used it before, although it took a while before he decided that was really the way to go forward. Tried looking for a major company to partner with, but couldn't find one that met his criteria. Eventually, he decided Kickstarter was the best option. - Sega readily allowed him to make the game, and SCE gave their support too (nothing specific here). - It'll be out on PS4 and PC. No mention of other platforms, no mention of considering any other platforms. - 2 million is the bare minimum for the game to exist, and if that was all they got, it would just be focused on the story. The more money it gets, the more of the things he wants to do will be possible. - He wants to give the fans what they want as much as possible, asking for their opinions during development and incorporating those into the final game. Like if they have two ideas for a character, they might ask backers to vote on which they prefer. - As far as money goes, he expects the game's investment will primarily come from individual backers, so he wants them all to be happy with the finished product. Doesn't sound like Sony and others are giving them all THAT much. - The story will take place in Guilin, beginning immediately after 2's end. You'll be able to go around the town(s) in that area, back to the mountains, infiltrate the Chi You Men's Guilin branch, etc. - Back when he made Shenmue 2, he was determined that Shenmue 3's focus would be making a deeper open world rather than a bigger one. Fewer characters means they can have more to say, they can have more complex AI, etc. The character Ryo will talk to the most in 3 is Shenhua, so he wants to develop her as much as possible, making it so that talking to her lots makes her behaviour towards him change, makes quests involving her proceed differently, etc. - Not that any of this is to say it won't be an open world game. Stretch goals will determine how much the town(s) can be expanded (presumably this is referring to stretch goals like those we can already see, the 'other towns' in that video aren't addressed here.) - QTEs were originally designed so that people who weren't very good at battles could still enjoy the game. - He wants to make 'free battles' (which are likely to have their name changed) less about pressing buttons at the right time and more about making the right decisions. - He also wants to make them less about practising and inputting commands and more centred around the Technique Scrolls, so obtaining and using those is enough to win battles. These Technique Scrolls will ideally connect a number of different elements in the game together in a natural way. "Shenmue had a number of minigames, gambling spots etc. that you could spend time playing around in, but I wanted something that would connect all of them somehow. I mean, obviously you can obtain money through part-time jobs, use that in gambling to get more of it and then buy weapons...but not that kind of connection, a closer one. If we can meet a number of our stretch goals and make the open world elements more elaborate, I'm hoping to be able to connect these side elements together, centred around the scrolls. - He's desperately trying to find some way to include forklifts in the game in a way that will make sense, because Shenmue fans seem to love them. - He wanted to gather as many of the people who worked on the earlier games as possible because it'd be reassuring to fans. They're planning to publish staff comments from a number of figures working on the game, including the writer Masahiro Yoshimoto. - He's asked about whether he has an idea in his head about what'll come after Shenmue 3's done (presumably 4, but it doesn't come out and say this). He says he does, but right now he's focused on working on Shenmue 3. Certainly doesn't sound like this game will be 'it' at any rate. - As the Kickstarter page says, he's hoping the game will be ready to release at the end of 2017. --- Bolded the interesting. It doesn't seem like they'll be getting that much funding from Sony. Anyway man 14 god damn years without even a sniff of Shenmue 3. If getting it this way is the only way to get it then I'm all for it especially if it means no Shenmue at all. Hell it could be funded by the Mafia and I wouldn't bat an eyelid lol.
dazzybee Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 (above from zelda thread but I'm responding here to avoid clogging that) - just wanted to say in terms of 'investment back' - Kickstarters like these tend to be a mix of investment/pre-order, and people and investing and their return is the reward/product they get at the end of it. Some opt to back at just that level to get just what they want, some back less just to support, some back more to really support! I don't see why a Kickstarter can't just been seen as a new way to seeking investment/funding - to also suggest backers get nothing back is silly. You wouldn't get such successful kickstarters if everyone was just doing it out of the goodness of their hearts! Yeah, kickstarter can be great and is great for independent artists and such. For sony to show it off as a big game at their conference and help with the development, but kickstarter is borderline disgusting in my eyes. I'd think the same if any multi million (billion) pound company/individual did the same thing. It's abusing the service (which I also think distrust the platform in general for the people who will generally need it).
Rummy Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 For sony to show it off as a big game at their conference and help with the development, but kickstarter is borderline disgusting in my eyes. I'd think the same if any multi million (billion) pound company/individual did the same thing. It's abusing the service (which I also think distrust the platform in general for the people who will generally need it). Not sure I get the point you're coming from here(like genuinely didn't understand) - is the issue Sony presenting it somewhat as 'theirs' but it being a kickstarter? Or presenting it as a kickstarter but it actually being somewhat 'theirs' or what?? I dunno if a word or two was lost in the post - but I certainly am!!
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