Nintendo Switch - Happy Switchmas Everyone!

[Ronnie]

Come on, man. Why you gotta say it like that?

 

I hate the term "Real 3D Mario". It implies 3D World somehow isn't a proper 3D Mario game. Which is ridiculous.

 

It also sounds real snobby, to boot.

 

Agree 100%. I hate it when people call for a "proper 3D Mario". An exploration based Mario game, or an expansive Mario game, sure, but not a "real 3D Mario"

[Rummy]

But why not? If you consider SM64 compared to later additions to the series the former really does not force you down any path necessarily. It's, almost literally full 3D - you can go in any which way you want, including backwards(yes you can do this in some of the others but I notably think of how in Galaxy you can't always). I believe I've played almost every mainline Mario game since(barring Super Luigi U) and none have felt as free or as '3D' as SM64 did.

 

I don't think people are putting negative connotations on the term and rather that they're being perceived instead. I actually think it's fairly valid a term if you consider however many games that have come afterwards - SMG, SMG2, SM3DL, SM3DW, NSMB, NSMB2, NSMBWii, NSMBWiiU - call those 8, EIGHT, different games - and none have for me come back to the same 'real 3D' feel that SM64 gave me.

[Jonnas]

But why not? If you consider SM64 compared to later additions to the series the former really does not force you down any path necessarily. It's, almost literally full 3D - you can go in any which way you want, including backwards(yes you can do this in some of the others but I notably think of how in Galaxy you can't always). I believe I've played almost every mainline Mario game since(barring Super Luigi U) and none have felt as free or as '3D' as SM64 did.

 

I don't think people are putting negative connotations on the term and rather that they're being perceived instead. I actually think it's fairly valid a term if you consider however many games that have come afterwards - SMG, SMG2, SM3DL, SM3DW, NSMB, NSMB2, NSMBWii, NSMBWiiU - call those 8, EIGHT, different games - and none have for me come back to the same 'real 3D' feel that SM64 gave me.

 

The problem with saying there's finally a "real" or "proper" 3D Mario, is that it's a very snobby way of saying "one that I like". As if my taste/radar is the "real" opinion to have into account. It's arrogant.

 

If you do mean "proper 3D" Mario, as in "open-ended" Mario, as your post implies, then I really must correct you, as that's not what a 3D game is (not as we understand it in videogames). Obviously, games like Portal and Resident Evil 4 are 3D despite their linear structure, and games like Link to the Past and Super Metroid are 2D despite being pretty open ended.

 

So, four of those games you mentioned are absolutely 3D, regardless of whether they're structured by levels or worlds. The other four are the "New" Super Mario series, which are all undeniably 2D.

[Pestneb]

But why not? If you consider SM64 compared to later additions to the series the former really does not force you down any path necessarily. It's, almost literally full 3D - you can go in any which way you want, including backwards(yes you can do this in some of the others but I notably think of how in Galaxy you can't always). I believe I've played almost every mainline Mario game since(barring Super Luigi U) and none have felt as free or as '3D' as SM64 did.

 

I don't think people are putting negative connotations on the term and rather that they're being perceived instead. I actually think it's fairly valid a term if you consider however many games that have come afterwards - SMG, SMG2, SM3DL, SM3DW, NSMB, NSMB2, NSMBWii, NSMBWiiU - call those 8, EIGHT, different games - and none have for me come back to the same 'real 3D' feel that SM64 gave me.

What about sunshine? it was quite similar in terms of having a hub world you can freely roam in, albeit within the confines of the play pen... always frustrated me how in sunshine you hit an invisible wall in the sea! they should have done like in lego city, if you swim too far you find a net that keeps dangerous fish out... traverse the net and shortly after, if you don't get back to the safe side, a cheep cheep or blooper leaps out and takes you down

 

but yeah, I think sunshine fit in nicely after 64 (though I confess not really enjoying mario 64 that much.)

Mario switch looks a lot like sunshine/64, though we'll need to see more before we can make any assertions.

[Rummy]

My issue with Sunshine is that it still ushers you down a path towards a shine. It doesn't feel as 'free' or 'unrestricted' as SM64 was. So when I talk about a 'real 3d mario' I kinda take the precedent set by SM64 - though I agree Sunshine's come closest to it and despite ushering you down said corridors, I'd probably consider it more a 'real 3d mario' given the way it's designed.

 

@Jonnas - again, it's you/readers who decide it's snobbish. I don't think it is. I don't intend to use the term in a snobbish way as I explain. Sure, talking just about '3D games' won't apply to it, but we're focusing on the phrase as a whole as 'real 3d mario' and not just the sole terms 'real' or 'proper' - I don't use it to refer to as simply a game that is in 3D graphics etc, but that actually feels like it's 3D. The fact some of the games on my list are 2D is also irrelevant - I was simply saying that in the time since SM64 I don't think anything's come back to that 'real 3d mario' feel as it were. I'm not meaning to define the term as if it's definitive, just that I think when people use it they aren't attempting or intending to be snobbish, superior, or derogatory. It's just referring to an aspect of the series that seems to have remained uncaptured since.

 

You can certainly make something look 3D, I'm not denying that. Even the 2D games themselves 'look' 3D of sorts - but they're 2D games as you move from left to right. Sure, the 3D games move you around in three dimensions, but do they feel like they're truly a 3D game, or just a 2D game from a slightly different perspective?

[Jonnas]

Jonnas - again, it's you/readers who decide it's snobbish. I don't think it is. I don't intend to use the term in a snobbish way as I explain.

 

I now see that, in this particular context, you're actually referring to an open-ended game, but obviously, that wasn't the first interpretation that I or Glen-i had.

 

Sure, the 3D games move you around in three dimensions, but do they feel like they're truly a 3D game, or just a 2D game from a slightly different perspective?

 

If a game allows you to move on 3 axis with some degree of freedom, then it's a 3D game. If a game gives you freedom to explore the world at your own pace, it's open-ended. These are two distinct concepts, and Super Mario 64 just so happens to be both.

 

Otherwise, I might ask you if the original NES Legend of Zelda is a 3D game with a slightly different perspective, since it allows you to explore everything on any order, and even go backwards.

[Sheikah]

So this has boiled down to the inevitable people literally interpreting the words 'three dimensional' vs people interpreting the context of the words being used.

 

Another example is Crash Bandicoot. A 3D game, but at the same time, eh...not really.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Sheikah

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

The problem with saying there's finally a "real" or "proper" 3D Mario, is that it's a very snobby way of saying "one that I like". As if my taste/radar is the "real" opinion to have into account. It's arrogant.

 

 

Personally, I think 'sticks and stones' - Not trying to tread on toes, but if adults are feeling downtrodden because someone labelled a variant of the type of game they like as "real" - I'd have to apply the increasingly offensive term "man up".

 

We 'get' what the user is trying to convey - its a shorter term for Mario 64, Sunshine & Galaxy. The gameplay in 3D World was notably different from the aforementioned.

 

[Dcubed]

The idea of a "real" 3D Mario is pretty hilarious when you consider that the gameplay style of 3D Mario undergoes drastic change every two games (and that's not by accident).

 

Super Mario 64 - Super Mario Sunshine

Super Mario Galaxy - Super Mario Galaxy 2

Super Mario 3D Land - Super Mario 3D World

Super Mario Mexico - ????

 

By that logic, there hasn't been a "real" 3D Mario since 2002

Edited November 1, 2016 by Dcubed

[Ashley]

I hope they call the next Mario title Super Mario Hermanos.

[killthenet]

I hope they call the next Mario title Super Mario Hermanos.

 

"As in - 'Hey Hermanos' "

[Goafer]

I hope they call it Super Mario Mans Up and it's a gritty, cover based shooter.

 

"Mother fucker. She's....she's....in another castle"

 

[Ashley]

"As in - 'Hey Hermanos' "

 

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

I hope they call it Super Mario Mans Up and it's a gritty, cover based shooter.

 

"Mother fucker. She's....she's....in another castle"

 

 

[Jonnas]

Another example is Crash Bandicoot. A 3D game, but at the same time, eh...not really.

 

If the character moves in 3D, it's a 3D game. The original Crash Bandicoot is weird in that movement is incredibly limited in one direction, so you may have a point, in that the game doesn't take enough advantage of the 3rd dimension to make a significant difference in how it plays (depending on the stage, Crash either runs from left to right, or front to back. Both individual scenarios are possible in a 2D plane).

 

But if we're going to interpret "3D" as "non-linear", then Starfox 64, Resi 4 or Uncharted aren't 3D games either.

[Glen-i]

@Jonnas got what I was on about. It gives an impression of "I declare this, therefore it is so"

That boat has long sailed though, so I'll leave it at that.

 

The idea of a "real" 3D Mario is pretty hilarious when you consider that the gameplay style of 3D Mario undergoes drastic change every two games (and that's not by accident).

 

Super Mario 64 - Super Mario Sunshine

Super Mario Galaxy - Super Mario Galaxy 2

Super Mario 3D Land - Super Mario 3D World

Super Mario Mexico - ????

 

By that logic, there hasn't been a "real" 3D Mario since 2002

 

You really don't want it to be called Super Mario Switch, huh?

 

It's remarkably similar to how some people clamour for a "Proper Paper Mario" game.

At this point, what the hell is that?

[Sheikah]

If the character moves in 3D, it's a 3D game.

 

And I refer you to my previous post:

 

So this has boiled down to the inevitable people literally interpreting the words 'three dimensional' vs people interpreting the context of the words being used. [/Quote]

 

It is somewhat odd that some people cannot see past the most literal use of words. It feels like half the arguments on the forum would not happen if people stopped to think about what was really being said.

[Glen-i]

It is somewhat odd that some people cannot see past the most literal use of words. It feels like half the arguments on the forum would not happen if people stopped to think about what was really being said.

 

I knew full well what was meant by the term. Don't assume I didn't know he meant Super Mario 64. I'm not a dope. It was just a very poor way of saying it. It comes across as arrogant. Is it so hard to say something like "I'm glad the next Mario seems to play SM64"?

[Sheikah]

I knew full well what was meant by the term. Don't assume I didn't know he meant Super Mario 64. I'm not a dope. It was just a very poor way of saying it. It comes across as arrogant. Is it so hard to say something like "I'm glad the next Mario seems to play SM64"?

There's only one person coming across as arrogant here and it wasn't him.

[dazzybee]

Love it, complaining that people are using the words as they are supposed to mean... People know what the term means now, but the term is utter bollocks.

 

It's funny that I've seen the same people defending this term also have objection to the use of hardcore/casual gamer, which do actually mean what they say.

 

Back to switch though, with the RAM, people say as it uses carts it isn't as big an issue. But how does it affect downloaded games? (not like we'll be able to download many with 128g micro SD card limit)

[Jonnas]

It is somewhat odd that some people cannot see past the most literal use of words. It feels like half the arguments on the forum would not happen if people stopped to think about what was really being said.

 

I did think about what was said. Hence why I keep mentioning non-linearity, and why I asked Rummy if the original NES Legend of Zelda fits the definition. Outside of this thread, I certainly never heard "3D" as a shorthand for open-ended games.

[Happenstance]

I think at this point most of us here know what someone means when they says a real 3D Mario but that doesnt mean everyone will and criticising someone for taking words for their actual meaning is just a bit ridiculous.

[Sheikah]

I did think about what was said. Hence why I keep mentioning non-linearity, and why I asked Rummy if the original NES Legend of Zelda fits the definition. Outside of this thread, I certainly never heard "3D" as a shorthand for open-ended games.

 

But did you actually think he was suggesting it wasn't a 3D game (ie. he was calling it a 2D game?). Surely you can see the 'black and white' interpretation of the words 'real 3D Mario' is so obviously not the point being made - that's why I was dismayed to see people stating "any game in 3D is a 3D game". It just seemed like deliberate misinterpretation of a point.

 

Fair enough if you hadn't heard the term used in that particular way, just the spelling out what constituted 3D seemed overkill.

Edited November 2, 2016 by Sheikah

[Rummy]

I hadn't meant for it to become more of an issue! Just wanted to clarify I don't aim to be disparaging about later titles in the series when I personally use the term - they're just different games but I personally prefer the feel of SM64 the most. I didn't get on so much with the more recent titles within the series for various reasons - but my biggest bugbear on the Mario front has kinda been the increasing/forced linearity it takes you down. I realise the irony of it considering Mario is the go-to game of linearity and running from left to right - but even if you consider SMB1 you do have to appreciate Nintendo's genius is putting in the warps and loop puzzles etc.

 

I might make a thread over in General for it, but for now I guess it's ended up here cos we're once again waiting on Switch news! I think whatever happens if I do pick up a Switch I'll end up with Mario Switch too; so it's all academic either way really. Other than Mario and Zelda do we actually have ideas/speculation on what other titles may be launch for the system? I don't think Zelda will necessarily do too much given its WiiU conjunction(except for those who never got a WiiU) but I am curious what else might be there for it and how they could influence sales. I also very much hope they go with a Splatwoon at some point rather than just getting a remake out there - there's a number of irksome flaws in the original that could be tidied up in a remake, but hopefully more so implemented better all round in a proper sequel.

[Fused King]

I think Advance Wars will finally make its glorious return.