Serebii Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Regarding 'shameless remakes' - what's worse than a remake where at least a measurable degree of effort has been put into making the game look and run much better? A> games which have had graphically very little done to them, that are almost straight ported quite some time after the game has been released, yet are being priced at full. For instance: Assassin's Creed 3 Darksiders II Call of Duty: Black Ops II Mass Effect 3 Batman Arkham City Ninja Gaiden III FIFA 13 How you can call remakes with more effort put in shameless, while ignoring the above titles on the Wii U is beyond me. Your comment is absolutely stupid and the more you make it, the more everyone knows it. You're knocking a console's library because there are graphically superior titles available on PC, while letting another console's library go (despite their output being far graphically inferior) simply because they refuse to let their games go on another format. Just an absurd argument really. How is it an absurd argument? The argument is sound. It counts for those games because they're available on PC. It doesn't count for Nintendo games because they're not on the PC. I'm knocking those titles because those titles are available on the PC and run better on it. You're grasping at straws here.
The Bard Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 For one, Nintendo didn't dig into their pockets to make Wind Waker HD. They made that on a whim just because they were testing out styles for Zelda U. They also most certainly did not put it as their biggest release in that year. Where the hell are you pulling that from? While "on a whim" seems to be Nintendo's entire strategy for the Wii U, I don't really think the amount of time and floorspace given to it at E3, as well as the fact that it was put out bundled with the Wii U, put it in the place of a stylistic test. Also, what was there that year for the console? Pikmin 3 and New Super Luigi U. Monster Hunter 3 for the Japanese crowd. Everything else of note were ports of games that were actually better (and a fraction of the price) on the previous generation of consoles and PC. So there's my evidence, in the tradition of facts - where the fuck's yours? Also, these remakes are shameless. They're just put out to fill holes. Yeah you could say Wind Waker HD is too, and I wouldn't fight you on it. You say it's to "elongate" the game. That's bull. Look at the major releases on XBO and PS4 in the second half of this year. Halo remakes. GTA remake. Last of Us Remake. If it wasn't for Destiny, it'd be catastrophic. Other titles are still cross gen, or like I said, better on PC. Can't comment on Halo, I never liked it but unlike Zelda, it's every single game released in the series with both the original game and a redone remaster of it in an engine made for a console one or two generations removed. Sounds good for the fans. Also with Zelda, you can play the exact same game on the Gamecube (I'd argue the better version because the colours are softer, more saturated and there's none of that awful lighting). Meanwhile, the Halo anniversary lets you play the multiplayer from the first two games, neither of which are available any longer, the second of which was lauded enough to be played for money on MLG. Those are a bunch of reasons. Second thing; GTA5 isn't a remake, it's the same game released a few months later with a better resolution and framerate, for people who were holding out on getting it because of the new consoles. Such as me. Same goes for Last of Us. The difference really is that the remakes are not all there fucking is. With the Wii U there is absolutely no surety that the console is going to have legs into next year. With the PS4 and One, I know for absolutely certain that I'm going to get a landslide of good stuff to play going forward just because those consoles, and by extension the PC, have the entire industry's backing. Wii U has Nintendo who aren't interesting to me anymore. And you say "well of course they are, and Nintendo's would be too". How is that a comeback? Nintendo's games aren't. These games are. Ergo they're better on PC This can be answered by the same points I made above, both in this post and the one prior. Reading comprehension needs an upgrade. If reading comprehension fails, as I suspect it might, it's because the availability of a marginally "superior" experience doesn't preclude people from playing it when there are other qualitative boons available on the consoles.
Mr-Paul Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Did we really need yet another "Wii U is awful, the other consoles are better" thread?
lostmario Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 I'll buy the next console but I doubt it'll be at launch. I'll hold off until there is a good deal with great games to play on it. Online gaming is a big deal for me now and Nintendo just refuse to give us the whole online gaming package. Nothing will change with their approach to online gaming as the Wii U is more than capable of having party chat & a instant messaging system but no, we get a light that flashes a couple of times. Third parties have turned their back on Nintendo and I doubt they'll come back for Nintendo's next console. I'm excited to see where they go with their next handheld, but their next console, not so much if they stick with the current strategy of an underpowered console with a gimmick nobody asked for. I'll be buying a PS4 in November/December and I imagine many other Wii U only owners will as well.
Sheikah Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 How is it an absurd argument? The argument is sound. It counts for those games because they're available on PC. It doesn't count for Nintendo games because they're not on the PC. You're grasping at straws here. You've gone full-blown Sereballs now . Like Bard pointed out, you're perfectly happy with a low level of graphical fidelity on the Wii U, yet you're knocking the superior fidelity on other consoles in favour of an even more superior format. You can't criticise a console's graphics if they're still much better than the format you're essentially worshipping. It's the pot calling the kettle black. Even putting aside the fact you call specific PS4/X1 games 'shameless' while overlooking the even more 'shameless' re-releases on Wii U, your argument is duff. The PC is a customisable format that will naturally always have the potential to best console games in the graphics department. But like we've said, graphics is one aspect, and many people choose consoles for the social aspects, ease of use and the cost, as well as the fact they remain supported for a long time. Did we really need yet another "Wii U is awful, the other consoles are better" thread? No, we didn't. But you know Serebii- he can't let a negative comment directed towards Nintendo slide without making arbitrary comparisons to the PS4/X1.
Ashley Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 We're kind of deviating from the point of this topic now, anyway Yeah...I wonder who started it. No different to the others. Microsoft who backpedalled hard on their features which were horrific, but keep hinting that aspects can come back and Sony who also promised no droughts, and look at the PS4 now. I'm honestly surprised it's selling, considering its lineup from launch to the end of this year. They're all as bad as each other. ... Anyway. Unless they make some changes to their approach, I doubt it. I'm kind of sick of their franchises now (as fun as they are to play, it's like masturbating - it looses its appeal if you do it too often) and my general gaming time has reduced over the years. Hopefully they'll realise some people do enjoy the things they declare 'not fun' and it would make me more interested. I actually really enjoy the social side of the other consoles (online, sharing, streaming etc). It's a shame the potential fun of 6+million people is being dictated by a few men in Japan. tl;dr good games, but the company behind them is increasingly giving me little reason to carry on with them.
Serebii Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Yeah...I wonder who started it. ... Anyway. Unless they make some changes to their approach, I doubt it. I'm kind of sick of their franchises now (as fun as they are to play, it's like masturbating - it looses its appeal if you do it too often) and my general gaming time has reduced over the years. Hopefully they'll realise some people do enjoy the things they declare 'not fun' and it would make me more interested. I actually really enjoy the social side of the other consoles (online, sharing, streaming etc). It's a shame the potential fun of 6+million people is being dictated by a few men in Japan. tl;dr good games, but the company behind them is increasingly giving me little reason to carry on with them. How are you going to continue with this site if you don't buy the materials needed to support it and/or are sick of their franchises? Also, Nintendo do online and sharing see Mario Kart 8, Pokémon, Splatoon and Miiverse to name just a few.
Grazza Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 I wouldn't consider myself a loyal fan and haven't been since 2005/2006 when they delayed Twilight Princess and altered (ruined) the GameCube version. From that moment on, I knew they were just as heartless and calculating as any other company. It sounds sad, but it taught me not to invest any emotion in them, as you're setting yourself up for disappointment (then again, I was a lot younger, and it wouldn't exactly be fitting for my age anyway!) After that incident I treated them with a "If the deal's good enough, I'll buy" attitude. Heck, for me personally, they could hardly have released a worse console than the Wii, and I only bought it when it was cheap enough. That said, I'm still open to Day 1 purchases if the offer seems good enough. Unlike many, I have no regrets about buying the 3DS at launch, but I didn't do it out of faith or loyalty. I did it because I was genuinely excited by a) the hardware and b) what was on offer at launch and within a few months of launch. For me, the Wii U is something in between the 3DS and Wii in terms of how much I like it (more like the Wii, when I think about it), but again, I bought it when the price was right and there were enough games actually released that I (thought I) wanted to play. In all honesty I think I'm getting a bit jaded with gaming anyway as I've had one for a couple of months and not even bought Mario 3D World/Pikmin 3 yet. In short: I have no loyalty to Nintendo, but will continue to buy their machines when the price and games are right. I'm more likely to keep buying their handhelds on Day 1, but wait a bit longer for the home consoles.
Sheikah Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 How are you going to continue with this site if you don't buy the materials needed to support it and/or are sick of their franchises? Maybe he could adopt your approach, and pass off ignorant judgements of other games which he has never actually played?
Ashley Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 How are you going to continue with this site if you don't buy the materials needed to support it and/or are sick of their franchises? Also, Nintendo do online and sharing see Mario Kart 8, Pokémon, Splatoon and Miiverse to name just a few. Bitch please, I don't buy Nintendo games And maybe I won't continue, or I'll move into a more ownership role. You're naming "just a few indeed". MK8's TV thing is fun, but its a rarity not a system feature. Splatoon played like pants, but I assume its an early build thing (found the controls really difficult). Hopefully it will get better. I'm aware certain games allow for this, don't try and educate me on it. You're aware these features are across the whole console for the other two.
Serebii Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Maybe he could adopt your approach, and pass off ignorant judgements of other games which he has never actually played? Nice ignorant judgment of assuming what games I have and have not played.
Mr-Paul Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 I think personally, all of the Wii U, PS4 and Xbox One have had too many re-releases/1080p remasters in their schedules and it's hard to argue that one side is worse than the other, in my opinion. In the end, it all comes down to your personal tastes and spending habits to whether a drought of games exists. Personally, I have never felt like I've never had enough to play, but maybe I don't game quite as much as some of you. Personally, I only ever buy a console if I believe it presents good value and has games that I want to play. I think anyone who buys one Day 1 without really wanting anything at launch only has themselves to blame if they end up disappointed. I got a Wii at launch because I wanted to play Wii Sports and Twilight Princess. I waited 4 months with the 3DS because the launch price was too high. I waited a year for a Wii U because the launch price was expensive and the line up not exciting to justify shelling that money out. And being a late adopter allows you to pick earlier games up for cheap and fill in any droughts that may come in the future. I will probably get a PS4 at some point, but only when there is enough I want to play to justify the cost, which isn't yet because I have plenty on the Wii U, 3DS and PS3 I want to play. That and I don't see myself paying over £250 for a console. When it comes to Nintendo's next console, I will make the same judgement based on price and there being games I want to play. I would love for Nintendo's consoles to match many of the features of the others, like cloud saves etc. but ultimately, I want to play Nintendo's games, so I will buy their console.
Serebii Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Bitch please, I don't buy Nintendo games And maybe I won't continue, or I'll move into a more ownership role. You're naming "just a few indeed". MK8's TV thing is fun, but its a rarity not a system feature. Splatoon played like pants, but I assume its an early build thing (found the controls really difficult). Hopefully it will get better. I'm aware certain games allow for this, don't try and educate me on it. You're aware these features are across the whole console for the other two. Perhaps, but online titles do exist and are common on Nintendo platforms. It's a bit disingenuous to use "online gaming" as a jab against Nintendo when it DOES happen. Just because it's not shoehorned into every game does not mean it doesn't happen. Administrative is a good idea if you don't find them enjoyable. Bit surprised to hear you didn't like Splatoon when I've heard nothing but good things about how it plays. Did you write up impressions? Really want to see what the issue was for you.
Sheikah Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 I think personally, all of the Wii U, PS4 and Xbox One have had too many re-releases/1080p remasters in their schedules and it's hard to argue that one side is worse than the other It's actually quite easy to argue, purely from a technical point of view. The Wii U's repertoire of re-releases, aside from Wind Waker, were games hardly/not at all improved upon (e.g. Mass Effect 3 and Batman), versus the remasters this gen which demonstrate much bigger improvements. The difference is so clear when you play a game like Tomb Raider on the PS3, versus the remaster on the newer consoles. Anyway, whether it's worth getting them again - probably not, no. In either case they're going to appeal more to people who never got them first time. Which, given they came at the end of the last cycle of consoles, is probably more people than you think. You've also got Nintendo only gamers that could be enticed, particularly in these times when Nintendo is floundering.
Mr-Paul Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Indeed, the ones on Wii U are late ports and of less popular games, but that is the choice of the publishers, not the fault of Nintendo. I guess you could blame Nintendo for making a technically weak console, but my point wasn't really the technical side - it's that in my opinion that we're seeing too many re-releases on all consoles. Yes, It is great for those who may not have played them on the original console(s), but for those who have already played them, it's just plugging a gap with an old game (which shouldn't be at full price!) Anyway, I'm just repeating myself from a topic that we previously largely agreed on
Rummy Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 You are making some excellent threads lately @Fierce_LiNk! I just wish I had more time to get myself stuck into these discussions properly! For now, I'll only be able to say that I think, yes, eventually, I will. Not right off the bat however. Probably end up like the folks waiting for price cuts/super deals etc - ofc this is all assuming their next console is something that appeals to me - for more of what that'll need to be, I'll hopefully get round to going through the thread to see what's been said and make a proper post myself.
Ashley Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Perhaps, but online titles do exist and are common on Nintendo platforms. It's a bit disingenuous to use "online gaming" as a jab against Nintendo when it DOES happen. Just because it's not shoehorned into every game does not mean it doesn't happen. Administrative is a good idea if you don't find them enjoyable. Bit surprised to hear you didn't like Splatoon when I've heard nothing but good things about how it plays. Did you write up impressions? Really want to see what the issue was for you. I at no point implied they didn't do online. I said I enjoy the social side of things, one of which is online, and wish they weren't so prescriptive about how it can be used (friend codes that went on for way too long, comparably weaker functionality in terms of seeing who is online/joining in etc). Even so, I'd rather online was "shoehorned in" rather than excluded when it shouldn't have been. I haven't posted them yet as I've been busy but it basically says controls are fiddly/will take time getting used to and the lack of online chat will dampen it. Nintendo were playing it together and chatting to each other and it was amusing. People playing isolated seemed like they were having a lesser (and different) kind of fun.
Serebii Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 I at no point implied they didn't do online. I said I enjoy the social side of things, one of which is online, and wish they weren't so prescriptive about how it can be used (friend codes that went on for way too long, comparably weaker functionality in terms of seeing who is online/joining in etc). Even so, I'd rather online was "shoehorned in" rather than excluded when it shouldn't have been. I haven't posted them yet as I've been busy but it basically says controls are fiddly/will take time getting used to and the lack of online chat will dampen it. Nintendo were playing it together and chatting to each other and it was amusing. People playing isolated seemed like they were having a lesser (and different) kind of fun. Didn't they say either they're considering voice chat or it will have it?? Could have sworn I read that
Ashley Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 (edited) I think there's been a lot speculated either way but as I see it: a) I've been burnt in the past b) the fact they can't outright say it suggests they didn't consider it (it's hardly something that should be kept secret) and that just shows poor judgement and understanding of the market They may add it, sure, but it's so bloody obvious that it should be there. The "but kids!!" argument is mute when we live in a world with ways around it. Edited July 22, 2014 by Ashley
Blade Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 At the moment I am unlikely to buy a Nintendo console on day one. I think I have finally seen the light and cannot now solely rely on being a "nintendo fan". Don't get me wrong Nintendo are masters of the single player experience but unfortunately that isn't the type of gamer I am anymore. I don't like to regularly lock myself away gaming on my own. I would much rather game with my mates and socialise at the same time. That is what gaming is about for me these days. Nintendo doesn't deliver for that type of gamer. I will get the next Nintendo console eventually...I just couldn't miss a Zelda release!
Fierce_LiNk Posted July 22, 2014 Author Posted July 22, 2014 You are making some excellent threads lately @kav82, @Zechs Merquise as I know that the you and I got the WiiU at the same time (roughly) and know that these three were burned by the online fiasco. As for me, I'm completely stuck. I queued up and was the second or third person to buy a Wii in the whole of Brighton at the midnight launch. One of the most exciting times of my life from a gamer perspective. Possibly one of my favourite ever systems. Fast forward to the WiiU and it feels like such a long, long time ago now. I feel nothing for the system. It's strange how it all works out. I was ready and waiting for the Wii's successor and would have paid for it right there and then. But, the E3 unveiling was disappointing, as was the controller and the line-up for the console. I don't know how Nintendo managed it, but they managed to put me off buying the system when I would have jumped through fire for it. Even when I eventually bought it, I wasn't convinced by it and only got it due to a feeling that the price wouldn't be cheaper. Again, fast forward to a year or so down the line...and it still isn't any cheaper really.
Cube Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Even though the Wii U is my first current-gen console, it still feels like a "bit on the side" rather than my main platform. Currently, my main platform is the PC, and the spot will eventually be shared by the PS4. Unless Nintendo change quite a bit, Nintendo's consoles will continue be a secondary platform for me.
darksnowman Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Sometime's (more like most of the time) I wish we could have threads flourish so quickly about actually playing Nintendo console games. Debates about droughts and online aside, there is actually heaps of games between Wii U and 3DS to be getting on with. Sigh. That being said, Nintendo left me feeling burnt with the 3DS. I gave up on it after I finished Kingdom Hearts 3D (which I loved) but they were lucky I held on that long. So no, I won't stick with Nintendo unless they can really get their shit together and everything so far suggests that they're only willing to take baby steps towards that. This is unfortunate because Nintendo have lost your plus one on the sales graphs etc but much more importantly because your level headed and constructive posts have been, and will continue to be missed round the Nintendo boards. Hyperbole and misrepresentation seem to be the name of the game for you, so let's get our fact on I want to make some longwinded response but you used to have a Chrono Trigger avatar and sig so you SHOULD be cool. Even if your posts don't read cool. PS you will just make Serebii more bullish in his stance. :wink: I'll buy the next console but I doubt it'll be at launch. I'll hold off until there is a good deal with great games to play on it. I'll be buying a PS4 in November/December and I imagine many other Wii U only owners will as well. Yeah, there's no shame in holding off. Last console I got at launch was the original DS. I waited a little while for the Wii and 3DS and still haven't grabbed a Wii U. Pretty sure I would enjoy playing one but its more a time thing (without sounding all look at me I'm so busy). Its not like I'm on top of my back catalogue of games either so I'm kinda content for the time being. I don't think I've actually experience a game drought since I was in P6 or something. That Christmas I got surprised with FOUR (!) SNES games and have not been on top of my collection since. The additions have poured in for the last 20+ years! Pity though that you feel the need to jump ship, as many others round this forum have. The boards are tumbleweedtastic these days except when its Nintendo are teh doomed topics. It just depends what you need from games, doesn't it. Anyhoo, I'm gonna wander back off and check if anyone has posted anything about Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy (I'm actually in an FF IV mood at the minute), Etrian Odyssey, Persona, Chrono Trigger...any RPG. But, sigh, of course you's won't have. Maybe I'll make a thread to complain about that but, sigh, you's won't reply to that anyway. Or I'll flip open the 3DS and play something a little while instead of spending so much time typing about it.
Debug Mode Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 As I've shown with my Wii U purchase, I'm really not interested in buying Nintendo products day one any more. I got burnt with the Wii (though selling it nabbed all my cash back), the 3DS was a really slow start and I would have preferred to save money than get some ambassador games, I just don't see the point any more. To be fair, this seems to be the case with all three these days for me personally. But as the other machines are basically guaranteed to get third party support, I would be far more inclined to get one of those instead of a strictly Nintendo only system, when the appeal of Nintendo titles is slowly fading due largely to how dated they are in regards to maintaining industry standards.
Jonnas Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 I have never bought a console Day 1. Doing so is foolish. Will I stay loyal to Nintendo? Yeah. I didn't buy the Wii U, and don't have plans on doing so soon, but that's because I gave up on consoles entirely. If I ever change my mind in this subject, the Nintendo one will still take priority. I like Nintendo, I like their games, I like their ideas. Games should be lighthearted and fun, and they give me that. Now, if only they could make an affordable handheld/console hybrid I could bring anywhere, with no region-locking, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. But not on Day 1. Doing so would be foolish.
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