Wii U General Discussion

[Hero-of-Time]

Take Two on developing for the Wii U.

 

Following this idea that Take-Two's content goes where the consumer goes, Zelnick spoke about the company's relationship, or lack thereof, with Nintendo and the Wii U console.

 

Take-Two believes that Wii U just doesn't have the consumer base to warrant its attention right now. "Our strategy is to meet consumers where they are," Zelnick elaborated. "If they're buying hardware, we'll be there with software. That said, we make these really big, AAA titles that work on some platforms, but not others."

[Rummy]

Eek, I didn't think that post'd lead to this discussion! Just to settle it for you both @Serebii(who started the conversation off the back of my post) and @Goron_3 - whilst my apparent turn of expression might have been wrong for Serebii to understand it, I did indeed mean it exactly as the majority of other people in the thread have managed to take it.

 

I think from Galaxy onwards 3D Mario levels have become more 'bitesize'; almost Crash Bandicoot in nature. For most levels while you can still move in 3D, platforms are often polarised in one direction (ie. a section of ground that extends far further in length than it does in width). This makes the levels somewhat linear and less free roaming like with most levels in Super Mario 64.

 

I've been saying this for quite a while, and is my biggest gripe with the successors. As Goron mentioned, in 64 you could get most stars in any order, and something about that felt great for me.

 

I am the same. I prefer to buy new hardware only if it brings a new experience. However, I know a ridiculous amount of people who bought/were gifted PS4's and XBone's at Christmas primarily for the new FIFA and COD. Playing FIFA 14 in GAME/at the football on the demo pods was enough for them to update...

 

I've never really understood the 'buying a new console as a future investment' idea. Seems like a great 'trick' to disassociate yourself from cognitive dissonance. Investing insinuates you benefit from your decision. But by buying a system at launch there are hardware flaws you must avoid, fewer games, lack of functionality (such as media playback removal) and a higher price.

The only general benefit is social prestige. Consumerism at its finest perhaps.

 

Intersting point - I felt I was 'investing' in the Wii U - I planned to get it anyway down the line, and thought that if I buy it now rather than later, even if it drops in price(was unlikely to be more than £50 in my mind) in a year or two - I'd still get that extra play out of it in the interim. I thought that £50 for an extra year of it isn't all *that* much in the grand scheme of things.

 

Now, what actually happened was days after I bought one for a good at the time £250 premium inc Nland+NSMBU, HMV did the premium in Nland+ZombiU for £200. Definite investment for the future looking back - not used it as much as I planned, not touched ZombiU personally, and not actually purchased/played NSMBU either. I knew what the WiiU was bringing/offering, but I wasn't sure it was of enough value to me at the time; then that deal popped up and tempted me! It was a time-limited deal, so I saw it as an 'investment' as I wouldn't have bought it otherwise.

 

And Mario 64 is very different; you enter a world and can explore an area that isn't even part of that 'mission' and end up with a completely different star. The ghost level is a great..I don't think I got any of the stars in order there! The Bowser levels are your typical 'point A to point B' though, I'll give you that.

 

Even given that(there was only 3 of them) there was the red coins too. So whilst being a very linear level, it still had at least the one optional secondary objective to it. The game seemed to have that approach all round.

 

The main difference, if people really can't see it:

How many levels in Super Mario 3D World are floating platforms in the sky, with falling off = death/infinite abyss, and have a linear route to the finish? Now, how many in SM64?

 

Still good, but I'm glad that separation exists because then it means the other style is hopefully still out there.

 

This just made me think of the times in SM64 where I'd fall off a great height with lowered health and take enough damage(with the squashy animation) and die; Mario's wail and Bowser's cruel laugh and silhouette blackout. Hilarious now, but soooo annoying at the time(albeit in a good way). Tbh, as much as I dislike the whole remake at full price idea, I think I actually wouldn't mind a HD remake of SM64 for Wii U to bring it to the newer generation of gamers. Maybe even of the DS version(I enjoyed the extra stars and stuff in that) - can even contain some fresh new minigames for the Wii U pad with it, like the DS ones had!?

[liger05]

Except if you do something like the left map now in an FPS, which is pretty much what Killzone Shadowfall does, loads of people complain that they don't know where to go and constantly get lost.

 

It's hilarious and sad.

 

Not sure how you can get lost as the game tells you where you need to go its just the level design for the majority of the game was poor.

[Serebii]

Incidentally, there's some maintenance going on Monday morning. This sort of maintenance typically has only occurred just before a system update

 

Extended maintenance

 

- Wii U and 3DS (online play, leaderboards) on Monday, February 10th :

 

a) Europe : 6AM to 8AM

b) UK : 5AM to 7AM

c) USA (East Coast) : 12AM to 2PM

d) USA (West Coast) : 9PM to 11PM (Sunday)

e) Japan : 2PM to 4PM

[Dcubed]

Flipnote 3D at last!? SHIBATA PLZ!!!

[Agent Gibbs]

I just want a Mario Sunshine remake/HD or a sequel!

[Daft]

Not sure how you can get lost as the game tells you where you need to go its just the level design for the majority of the game was poor.

 

Apart from a couple terrible sections towards the end, the level design was far from poor.

[dazzybee]

I said peripherals like the gamepad. Nobody is going to adopt that, and I doubt Nintendo will ever make another console with the gamepad. So no, in terms of innovations the gamepad itself will bring, they will not be lasting.

 

Those other things you listed are also not peripherals.

 

Neither is the gamepad, it's the controller, like the SNES was when it added shoulders and the N64 when it added the stick and the Gamecbue adding two.

 

As for them not doing it next gen... I don't know, I have a feeling their next handheld may be the controller

 

But also, if Nintendo really do experiment with two screens then I can see other developers taking it on with phones and tablets for consoles... maybe.

 

And @Goron_3 you mention Uncharted, Heavy Rain and little big planet couldn't run without new hardware... Of course they could work on the PS2, they wouldn't be as graphically impressive but they'd easily still work. Same with online, maybe not as good but could still do it! You can say the same argument about wii u games (though zombie u and nintendoland and more definitely couldn't)...

 

Though I think it's a stupid argument to be honest, can't remember how it started. Consoles can't radically change the way we play any more (the oculus is the best shout), but why is this important? If it improves them in small subtle ways that's still good isn't it? It's all we can expect! In fact so many games that are the best nowadays definitely could work on old hardware and are designed to look like they're made on old hardware.

[Sheikah]

As for them not doing it next gen... I don't know, I have a feeling their next handheld may be the controller

 

That wouldn't be a gamepad then. That'd just be a handheld device, wouldn't it? By gamepad I'm talking about a second screen device that is separate to the machine, that could well be optional (since a TV would suffice). That's where the high cost came in since home consoles don't usually have a screen.

[Goron_3]

Neither is the gamepad, it's the controller, like the SNES was when it added shoulders and the N64 when it added the stick and the Gamecbue adding two.

 

As for them not doing it next gen... I don't know, I have a feeling their next handheld may be the controller

 

But also, if Nintendo really do experiment with two screens then I can see other developers taking it on with phones and tablets for consoles... maybe.

 

And @Goron_3 you mention Uncharted, Heavy Rain and little big planet couldn't run without new hardware... Of course they could work on the PS2, they wouldn't be as graphically impressive but they'd easily still work. Same with online, maybe not as good but could still do it! You can say the same argument about wii u games (though zombie u and nintendoland and more definitely couldn't)...

 

Though I think it's a stupid argument to be honest, can't remember how it started. Consoles can't radically change the way we play any more (the oculus is the best shout), but why is this important? If it improves them in small subtle ways that's still good isn't it? It's all we can expect! In fact so many games that are the best nowadays definitely could work on old hardware and are designed to look like they're made on old hardware.

 

But the games would be lacking hugely in the experience, it just wouldn't be the same. Imagine Resident Evil 4 on the N64, Uncharted on the PS2 on a 50 inch screen...awful experience.

 

And I don't think it's a silly argument, I think it's an accurate on. I started by saying that people buy new consoles to get new experiences, and the most successful consoles are those that provide the most amount of new experiences. I then said that one of the reasons why the Wii U isn't selling is that people don't see it as a console that provides exciting new experiences, just one that provides the same exclusive games that the Wii had (a new Donkey Kong, online Wii Sports, new SMB etc). Of course, that's just from what I've seen people say online and in person, as well as a survey we did at our University. If new hardware doesn't try to provide new experiences, it will always flop.

[Ronnie]

It's 2D Mario gameplay in a 3D world, similar to 3D Land on 3DS. You can't even compare it to say Mario 64 or Sunshine, don't even try. COMPLETELY different styles of games. 3D world barely pushes the Wii U other than some pretty graphics at times. It's a very self contained and simple game and it wouldn't surprise me if they could have just made the whole thing on the Wii.

 

 

The market that love 2D Mario games is far far bigger than the one that likes 64/Galaxy style games. The whole point of 3D World was to provide a bridge title that would try and win over the 2D crowd. Nintendo needs to make system selling games, not pander to the hardcore crowd (sadly).

[Retro_Link]

The market that love 2D Mario games is far far bigger than the one that likes 64/Galaxy style games. The whole point of 3D World was to provide a bridge title that would try and win over the 2D crowd. Nintendo needs to make system selling games, not pander to the hardcore crowd (sadly).

It kinda seems to have missed both markets in doing so then... it didn't get any people to buy the console who are looking for the next big 3D Mario, and it didn't sell anything like a 2D Mario game.

 

Maybe leave 2D and these 2D/3D Mario titles to the handhelds where they sell best and 3D for the home console?

[Falcon_BlizZACK]

You know what will make me pick a Wii U like tomorrow? ...

 

Just simply a ten second Nintendo Direct of the words "You met with a terrible fate, haven't you?"

 

Seriously. Tomorrow.

 

If we have to wait till 2015 for Wii U Zelda, remake this ish ASAP.

[Daft]

Competely forgot about DC Scribblenauts. When is it out? Anyone know if there is co-op or any local multiplayer on the Wii U version??

[dazzybee]

But the games would be lacking hugely in the experience, it just wouldn't be the same. Imagine Resident Evil 4 on the N64, Uncharted on the PS2 on a 50 inch screen...awful experience.

 

And I don't think it's a silly argument, I think it's an accurate on. I started by saying that people buy new consoles to get new experiences, and the most successful consoles are those that provide the most amount of new experiences. I then said that one of the reasons why the Wii U isn't selling is that people don't see it as a console that provides exciting new experiences, just one that provides the same exclusive games that the Wii had (a new Donkey Kong, online Wii Sports, new SMB etc). Of course, that's just from what I've seen people say online and in person, as well as a survey we did at our University. If new hardware doesn't try to provide new experiences, it will always flop.

 

Okay. Fair enough. I just completely disagree. And also, I don't think it's new experiences that only that hardware can do I find that mental, but more what games does that console have. Those game can work on other hardware, older hardware, but ultimately does it have the games I want. Wii u doesn't have many games, put more games on it and it'll sell more. Easy equation.

[Retro_Link]

Competely forgot about DC Scribblenauts. When is it out? Anyone know if there is co-op or any local multiplayer on the Wii U version??

Doesn't seem to have a PAL release date from what I can see.

 

I think it's only a single player game as well isn't it?

[Rummy]

Okay. Fair enough. I just completely disagree. And also, I don't think it's new experiences that only that hardware can do I find that mental, but more what games does that console have. Those game can work on other hardware, older hardware, but ultimately does it have the games I want. Wii u doesn't have many games, put more games on it and it'll sell more. Easy equation.

 

I dunno - I think the console/game sales is very chicken and egg. You need games to sell a console, you need consoles to sell a game. I think one telling point is that Nintendo's hard hitters that usually do the job, aren't getting it done as well as in the past - what's that saying in the grand scheme of it? I don't actually know the answer to this. I think it's somewhat of a market shift personally. It's never than simple, though.

 

As for better hardware = better games vs same games can be done on old hardware. The games CAN be done, but surely not without sacrifice somewhere? If that wasn't the case, we'd have no new hardware, and no new progression. One game I'm very fond of, and was amazing(moreso because of what I felt it still managed with the hardware it was on) was Xenoblade - but I did always think to myself 'Damn, this is good! But what if the Wii was even more powerful!' - it'd look nicer, have greater draw distances, maybe handle more animation. All of these things are the things I care about least in a game BUT when you end up with a game like Xenoblade that's hitting perfection in almost everything else - you can't help but wish those least factors were also up to par. It's the 4-6s amongst a sea of four or five 8-10s; it all averages out.

[tapedeck]

Edit. Okay, I shouldn't have tried to have a conversation on this board, even though it's a Wii U thread, because I should've known that this would happen. Ironically, this all started because I replied to a guy who was a NEW member, and it still gets derailed like this? No wonder we aren't getting loads of new members on here.

 

Saw this earlier and thought I would comment:

 

You are entitled to your opinion as much as everyone else and as a result of that, a forum that has a mix of opinion rather than a few people dominating is created.

 

This forum has a great mix of enthusiasts who are, for better or worse, in flux as to how Nintendo exists in the current market. Sure, such enthusiasm turns into frustration and passion can boil over into rants, but it is important to reflect and remember that we must be level headed and open to each other's suggestions - which should all aiming for one thing: to see more success come to the gaming sphere as a whole.

The N-Europe forum has done well to segregate gaming interests (welcoming sony and Microsoft interests with open arms), while still maintaining an interesting platform for debate and expressions of industry/software enjoyment.

 

Hopefully an upcoming Direct will get us all enthused and feeling positive once in the Nintendo pond. But for now, remember that we, as a whole are what makes N-E. We all have a role to play in making this a vibrant, inviting forum for both old and new readers. : peace:

[dazzybee]

I dunno - I think the console/game sales is very chicken and egg. You need games to sell a console, you need consoles to sell a game. I think one telling point is that Nintendo's hard hitters that usually do the job, aren't getting it done as well as in the past - what's that saying in the grand scheme of it? I don't actually know the answer to this. I think it's somewhat of a market shift personally. It's never than simple, though.

 

As for better hardware = better games vs same games can be done on old hardware. The games CAN be done, but surely not without sacrifice somewhere? If that wasn't the case, we'd have no new hardware, and no new progression. One game I'm very fond of, and was amazing(moreso because of what I felt it still managed with the hardware it was on) was Xenoblade - but I did always think to myself 'Damn, this is good! But what if the Wii was even more powerful!' - it'd look nicer, have greater draw distances, maybe handle more animation. All of these things are the things I care about least in a game BUT when you end up with a game like Xenoblade that's hitting perfection in almost everything else - you can't help but wish those least factors were also up to par. It's the 4-6s amongst a sea of four or five 8-10s; it all averages out.

 

But I don't think the games Nintendo have released have traditionally sold the hardware, so I don't think it is worse. Mario 64 was the last time a mario game SOLD the hardware, pikmin never has, and what else have the released? I think Mario Kart sells hardware, so that , in my opinion, will be the first big test.

 

As for better hardware, I agree, i think my post being isolated makes it look like I am saying new hardware doesn't offer anything. But actually it was about someone else (can't remember now) saying wii u games could have been done on the wii... which I find ridiculous for the reasons you said, you CAN, but it wouldn't be as good, that was my point, by showing the thinking up by saying you can say that about any game really!!

 

Does that even make sense?!

[Ashley]

Competely forgot about DC Scribblenauts. When is it out? Anyone know if there is co-op or any local multiplayer on the Wii U version??

 

Doesn't seem to have a PAL release date from what I can see.

 

I think it's only a single player game as well isn't it?

 

Apparently delayed in Europe to allow the other delayed titles to be released first. Urgh.

[Daft]

U wot m8?!

 

Aaarrgh, would definitely consider importing it. I've never played a Scribblenaut, but always wanted to. There's no excuse with DC involved.

[Ashley]

Both 3DS and Wii U are region locked as far as I recall.

[Cube]

U wot m8?!

 

Aaarrgh, would definitely consider importing it. I've never played a Scribblenaut, but always wanted to. There's no excuse with DC involved.

 

Would you consider playing it on a PC?

 

Although perhaps wait until the summer sale.

[Zell]

I would be interested in knowing why @Zell hasn't picked up a Wii U for Mario though...I mean, it's Mario right? And there's also Donkey Kong coming and great sequels like Wii Fit and NSMBU out as well!

 

I've always been a big Nintendo fan and have bought every Nintendo console since the SNES. I knew that I would buy a Wii U at some point, but I didn't get a Wii U at launch because a) there weren't any must-have games and b) it was very overpriced. I decided to wait until the price had come down but more importantly I decided to wait until some killer games - fresh new experiences that I couldn't experience anywhere else - came out.

 

And I'm still waiting. I don't doubt that games like NSMBU and SM3DW are good... but they don't exactly justify me spending £200+ to upgrade my hardware. Both of those games could have been released on the Wii or 3DS.

 

When you buy a new console, you expect to be able to play something that couldn't be possible on the old console. This doesn't just apply to Nintendo, there are also zero reasons for me to buy either a Xbone or a PS4 at this point in time.

 

Give me a massive open world HD Mario, Zelda or Metroid and I would snap up the Wii U in a heartbeat. But they would need to be fresh, new, bold, ambitious etc, and not just rehashes of older games in their series, which seems to be their modus operandi of late.

 

The cynic in me is saying that I won't get any of the above because I'm no longer part of Nintendo's target audience. They seem to be happy that they're no longer at the cutting edge and are content with releasing smaller, easier, simpler games for a more casual audience.

 

This is the Nintendo that I loved:

 

[liger05]

I've always been a big Nintendo fan and have bought every Nintendo console since the SNES. I knew that I would buy a Wii U at some point, but I didn't get a Wii U at launch because a) there weren't any must-have games and b) it was very overpriced. I decided to wait until the price had come down but more importantly I decided to wait until some killer games - fresh new experiences that I couldn't experience anywhere else - came out.

 

And I'm still waiting. I don't doubt that games like NSMBU and SM3DW are good... but they don't exactly justify me spending £200+ to upgrade my hardware. Both of those games could have been released on the Wii or 3DS.

 

When you buy a new console, you expect to be able to play something that couldn't be possible on the old console. This doesn't just apply to Nintendo, there are also zero reasons for me to buy either a Xbone or a PS4 at this point in time.

 

Give me a massive open world HD Mario, Zelda or Metroid and I would snap up the Wii U in a heartbeat. But they would need to be fresh, new, bold, ambitious etc, and not just rehashes of older games in their series, which seems to be their modus operandi of late.

 

The cynic in me is saying that I won't get any of the above because I'm no longer part of Nintendo's target audience. They seem to be happy that they're no longer at the cutting edge and are content with releasing smaller, easier, simpler games for a more casual audience.

 

This is the Nintendo that I loved:

 

 

The next console will be a real test for me. If they go down the route where gimmicks come first and families and kids are #1 I'll likely not purchase it. Iwata is more and more turning me off Nintendo.