RPG Pillars: 20 Games that Defined RPGs

[darksnowman]

Gamepro got some new staff a few months ago, stealing them from 1UP.com. All of a sudden Active Time Babble stopped and was replaced with Roleplayers Realm and a few articles have gone up to celebrate Dragon Quest's anniversary and stuff like that. Nowadays Gamepro is a viable website.

 

RPG Pillars: 20 Games that Defined Role Playing Games is their latest undertaking. They have selected twenty of the most influential RPGs in history and will be going into more depth on them (from what I gather) for the next twenty weeks. Here's their list:

 

The Bedrock

Rogue

Ultima: The First Age of Darkness

Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord (1981)

Dragon Quest

 

The Sub-Genre Definers

Fire Emblem

King's Bounty

The Elder Scrolls: Arena

Diablo

Ultima Online

 

The Turning Points in RPG History

Final Fantasy VII

World of WarCraft

 

Other Popularizers

Pool of Radiance

Final Fantasy

Pokémon

 

Great RPGs that Refined the Genre

Dungeon Master

Phantasy Star II

Secret of Mana

Chrono Trigger

Fallout

Star Wars: KotoR

 

What do you think about that? Agree or disagree? What RPGs defined the genre for you?

[Emerald Emblem]

I can't really say, I started my love of RPG's with Final Fantasy IX and then I got to play Secret of Mana on a friends SNES, great games and I went back a few Final Fantasies to VI, Skies of Arcadia sorta stuck out at me, but a corrupt save pretty much ended my journey with that one. After Final Fantasy X the games lost their appeal, then Tales of Symphonia came along and I've tried to get every Tales game I could and that's where I'm at, JRPG is my area and always has been, my journey is short so I'm sure others can give better recollections with a lot more variation.

Edited July 25, 2011 by Emerald Emblem

[Hero-of-Time]

It's hard to make a comment about alot of them games as most of them are PC/Western RPGs which I don't touch. Here's my thoughts about a couple of defining experiences with the genre.

 

Like many Final Fantasy VII was my first JRPG. It introduced me to the turn based battle system which I have grown to love over the years. It also showed me that games could have cinematic style visuals ( FMV FTW! ) and stories that really draw me in. Although this was my first experience of a JRPG my passion for the genre really wouldn't come to full bloom until 1999...

 

 

This game right here is what grabbed me by the scruff of the neck and slammed my face into the genre. Everything about the game was perfect for me. The characters, the music, the story, everything. The game really drew me in, so much so that it was the first ( not the last ) videogame to reach me on an emotional level and draw tears ( see what i did there ) from me.

 

The next game on my list is a favourite for many of us on here.

 

 

I played Skies back when it was released on the Dreamcast but I didn't give it a chance and I never finished it. Fast forward to the Cube release and that all changed. I don't know whether it was because I was a little older or whether it was due to me having more experience with the genre but this time around I got sucked up into the world of Skies and I never looked back.

 

The colourful world and character of Skies of Arcadia is one of my fondest memoris from any RPG. Alot of RPG's I had played up until that point were dark and moody but this broke the mould by having a very cheery attitude about itself.

 

The ship battles were hated by many but I loved them to bits. Getting crew members and upgrades were a fantastic addition and gave you plenty to do when you wanted to trail off the main story for a while. As did trying to find all of the landmarks.

 

To this day I still pray for a sequel...

[Mandalore]

For me, Baldur's Gate II Shadows of Amn defined the RPG genre. Never have I been so immersed in a game before or since. It's still an outstanding game even by todays standards.

 

Out of the more modern RPGs, my favourites have been Mass Effect and The Witcher. I'd say Mass Effect should definitely be on that list for refining the genre.

 

I've tried a few Final Fantasy games, really don't get the appeal of them.

[Hero-of-Time]

I've just finished listening to the podcast and I found it very enjoyable, although Kat Bailey's voice grinds on me. She constantly has the same tone and quite frankly sounds stoned.

 

I totally agree about the JRPG golden age being over, at least on the consoles anyway. This generation i've only played Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, Final Fantasy XIII, Eternal Sonata and Magna Carta 2. I still have Tales of Vesperia and Infinite Undiscovery sitting to be played but it's still only a handful of titles from a generation thats 5 year old.

 

I'm not realy a fan of handheld JRPG's as they usually fail to draw me in. There are a few exceptions to this though, Final Fantasy: IV and Final Fantasy: Crisis Core being two of them.

 

Alot of RPG's on the HD twins seem to be western developed ones and I don't really care much for these. I spoke about this very briefly with darksnowman the other day and I often find that WRPG's seem to focus more on collecting loot or exploring a sandbox world rather than the story, which is why I play and enjoy RPG's. Fallout 3 is probably one of the highest rated games this generation yet I found it very boring and the whole world dull as can be. The exception to this rule is Mass Effect, I love both of the games and can't wait to play the 3rd installment.

 

I know I often complain about the way JRPG's characters are usually a group of kids setting out to save the world but more often than not that world is filled with great locations, interesting characters and very colourful. I think alot of WRPG's lack these qualities.

 

It was nice to hear some banter about Final Fantasy X, truely one of the best JRPG's from the last generation. It is an interesting point they bring up about the game. Is it the last game from the old S-E or the first of the new S-E? Probably a little of both.

 

I had a smile on my face when they were on about dying on a boss and having to sit and watch the cutscenes again. I remember I died at exactly the same spot they were discussing during the podcast. Despite what they said though S-E did learn their lesson with that game because in FF XIII you can skip the scenes if you die, so you can go straight into battle.

 

I was thinking about the RPG's i've played in my life while I was at work last night and I was mistaken when I said FFVII was the first one I played with turn based fights. Looking back to my childhood I realised that it was Shining In The Darkness on the Megadrive. A few of you played it when it came to the Virtual Console, as did I. I can't belive I forgot about that gem.

[Ganepark32]

Looking at that list of 20, one truly stark omission is of course Elite which was hugely influential in setting the precident for the likes of WoW in terms of some of its gameplay mechanics (along with many others).

 

Completely understand why Mass Effect isn't on there, seeing as Star Wars: KotOR essentially laid the foundations for that.

 

Other than those two comments, can't really say much about some of the games on the list as I haven't played them but can definitely agree with 5 of the 6 refining the genre titles (the only one I haven't played is Dungeon Master) as they all did something significant for the genre or created timeless experiences that still beat out many of today's RPG offerings, especially in the JRPG spectrum.

 

There are probably more JRPGs getting released nowadays than there used to be but very few are experimenting and trying to push the envelope beyond the tried and tested. In all honesty, I think the only JRPG of recent times that I can think of that's used a truly different blueprint was The World Ends With You.

 

It's a situation that Western developers could slowly get into with their RPGs (or if you're Obsidian then you're already there) if they stick to closely to what they've done before and don't experiment in moving the genre forward in terms of keeping it role playing (with things such as giving more interactivity, etc.). Hopefully that won't be the case as the Western teams are pretty much carrying the genre at the moment and the JRPGs have a lot to do to compete with them on pretty much every level.

[Hero-of-Time]

There are probably more JRPGs getting released nowadays than there used to be but very few are experimenting and trying to push the envelope beyond the tried and tested. In all honesty, I think the only JRPG of recent times that I can think of that's used a truly different blueprint was The World Ends With You.

 

It's a situation that Western developers could slowly get into with their RPGs (or if you're Obsidian then you're already there) if they stick to closely to what they've done before and don't experiment in moving the genre forward in terms of keeping it role playing (with things such as giving more interactivity, etc.). Hopefully that won't be the case as the Western teams are pretty much carrying the genre at the moment and the JRPGs have a lot to do to compete with them on pretty much every level.

 

With regards the first bolded section I don't think is the case at all in terms of console releases. Counting the games that have had a release over here this generation off the top of my head we've had...

 

Lost Odyssey

Blue Dragon

Final Fantasy XIII

Eternal Sonata

Xenoblade

Infinite Undiscovery

Star Ocean 4

Tales of Vesperia

Disgaea 3

Magna Carta 2

Tales of Symphonia 2

Last Remnant

Valkyria Chronicles

 

Most of these games are very average and as Kat said on the podcast many JRPG players are just playing them and trying to make them sound better than what they are purely because they are starved for games.

 

Last gen we had...

 

Baten Kaitos

Paper Mario

Skies of Arcadia

Final Fantasy X

Final Fantasy X-2

Final Fantasy XII

Tales of Symphonia

Dark Cloud

Dark Chronicles

Dragon Quest VIII

Persona 3

Persona 4

Kingdom Hearts

Kingdom Hearts 2

.Hack series

Breath of Fire 5

Wild Arms 4

Wild Arms 5

Grandia II

Grandia III

Rogue Galaxy

Shadow Hearts

Shadow Hearts II

Shadow Hearts Covenant

Shadow Hearts New World

Disgaea

Disgaea 2

Phantom Brave

Star Ocean 3

Suikoden IV

Suikoden V

Unlimited Saga

Xenosaga 2

Megaman X Command Mission ( soooooo underated )

 

There are probably ALOT more aswell and most of these titles are highly rated unlike the offerings we've had this gen. It really does seem like consoles are seeing the end of JRPG's while the handhelds are getting most of them.

 

Again the podcast made a good point though when they said many Japanese developers still haven't got to grips with the HD systems and they go on to say that the development cycles seem to be a mess due to shoddy management of the teams ( a few examples were given ). If this is the case then what the hell are they going to do next gen when pretty much all of the consoles and handhelds are outputting in HD?

 

Lastly I bolded the 2nd section purely because I think that WRPG's have yet to tell a story with characters I care about, APART from Mass Effect. Even then it doesn't hold a flame to the likes of the Dragon Quest/Final Fantasy games. In my opinion Western Developers need to play catch up with Eastern ones in terms of RPG story telling.

Edited July 28, 2011 by Hero-of-Time

[MoogleViper]

I'm pretty much in agreement with what H-o-T said. I too first played FFVII, but it was my brother's game so I didn't play it much. The first one that got me in was FFVIII. Brilliant game. To me by far the best RPG there is, but I do agree that FFVII was more iconic/influential.

 

I disagree about Fallout 3 though. I thought it was a great game. Brilliant open world.

[nekunando]

Golden Sun is basically the only proper RPG I have played due to not being fond of the genre in my younger days.. unless you include the fantastic Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door

[killer kirby]

With regards the first bolded section I don't think is the case at all in terms of console releases. Counting the games that have had a release over here this generation off the top of my head we've had...

 

It's a different ball game now though, Japan is more and more going into the handheld market rather than the home console market. Big difference to the amount of JRPG last gen to this gen on Handhelds, you must remember that.

 

To me the golden age has not dimmed at all, it's just...moved, I have never loved my handheld system than I do now because of the vast and incredible amount of JRPG's.

 

Dragon Quest IX, Pokemon Black and White and Persona 3 are games which show to me that JRPG's are just going to get better on portable systems

[Magnus]

With regards the first bolded section I don't think is the case at all in terms of console releases.

Maybe he counted handheld games? He never said that he didn't.

 

Not everyone thinks handheld RPGs are somehow worth less.

 

Lastly I bolded the 2nd section purely because I think that WRPG's have yet to tell a story with characters I care about, APART from Mass Effect.

Baldur's Gate 2, Planescape: Torment, Knights of the Old Republic, Dragon Age, Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines...

 

Really, it sounds like other than Mass Effect, your experience with WRPGs is based mostly around Bethesda's games, which isn't representative of the entire genre at all.

 

Though I do agree that WRPGs tend to focus a lot more on... not really open-world exploration (save Bethesda's games), so much as freedom and choice. Final Fantasy may arguably have a stronger story, but in the original Fallout, you're free to go wherever you want right from the start (including the very final area), you can kill every single NPC in the game if you so choose, and the game has a bunch of different endings depending on your actions in the game. Meanwhile, BioWare's RPGs tend to be more linear while offering smaller choices, so that usually leads to stronger stories but less freedom.

 

Really, it's two very different experiences. Some people like following well-written stories about spiky-haired teenagers who save the world, while others like the freedom of going wherever they want and playing a game their way. It's not really fair to say that one is better than the other.

[Hero-of-Time]

Really, it's two very different experiences. Some people like following well-written stories about spiky-haired teenagers who save the world, while others like the freedom of going wherever they want and playing a game their way. It's not really fair to say that one is better than the other.

 

I'm not saying that one is better than the other, i'm saying I prefer the over the top, anime stylings that JRPG's offer rather than WRPG's.

 

You are right when you mention my experience with WRPG's. Alot of them in the past were on the PC and seeing as I detest PC gaming I never played them. My experience with them has been what WRPG's have been released on the 360 and they just don't do it for me.

[Magnus]

My experience with them has been what WRPG's have been released on the 360 and they just don't do it for me.

This is somewhat ironic, since you also lament the lack of good console JRPGs this generation.

 

Maybe RPGs in general are just having an off generation.

Though I think you should expand your horizons and play RPGs on the PC and handhelds. Think of all the great games you've missed!

[Hero-of-Time]

Though I think you should expand your horizons and play RPGs on the PC and handhelds. Think of all the great games you've missed!

 

I do play RPG's on handhelds, but for some reason they just don't resonate with me aswell as the console RPG's do. On the DS alone i've played...

 

Mario and Luigi PiT/BiS

Nostalgia

Dragon Quest IV/V/IX

Final Fantasy III/IV/ Rings of Fate

Infinite Space

Pokemon Black/Platinum/Diamond

Shiren

Etrian Odyssey

Blue Dragon Plus

Magical Starsign

Children of Mana

Chrono Trigger

Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days

The World Ends With You

Phantasy Star Zero

Pokemon Ranger 1/2/3

 

PC gaming I will NEVER touch. Hate it. Always have and always will.

 

In my eyes, and many others, console JRPG's are a dying breed and as Kirby said it seems to be a handheld thing now. As I mentioned earlier what the podcast said makes for an interesting future regarding Japanese developers and the Vita/3DS.

 

Did anyone on here actually listen to the podcast apart from me and darksnowman? I was hoping to have a discussion about what they said on there and not about my taste in RPG's.

Edited July 28, 2011 by Hero-of-Time

[Ike]

I did listen to it, but I've forgotten what they talked about I remember disagreeing with something, but what I don't know, and a lot of FF talk which I haven't played. Might listen to it again.

[Grazza]

I won't pretend to have been there all the way and seen the genre-defining RPGs. However, Dragon Quest VIII is my favourite. I've still not seen one with such a good overworld, soundtrack or general charm. Skies of Arcadia is also good (I prefer the cheery ones).

 

However, I will say this: Dragon Quest IX could (and should) be extremely influencial indeed. Whilst I don't consider it to be as good as VIII, it set up a system that future RPGs would do well to observe. For one thing, it will now seem prehistoric for the clothing characters are wearing not to be visible throughout the game. Furthermore, DQIX combined online features and real-world interaction, making it quite an experience.

 

Supposedly, the 3DS's StreetPass feature is inspired by the "tag mode", which, although I wasn't able to use in DQIX, has immense potential on machines that have this sort of thing built into the operating system. In theory, you could swap/sell items, lend your characters to other people, play online etc. However, that is all speculation. Nonetheless, DQIX has given us plenty of food for thought.

[Jonnas]

Man, so many JRPGs I could mention in this thread... I'll just mention a few key favourites:

 

Pokémon Red&Blue + Gold&Silver: First RPGs I played, though I didn't know it at the time. There's something amazing about forming your own team out of the dozens of monsters you meet. Other games tried it, but Pokémon is still the master of this sub-genre;

 

Final Fantasy IX: The first "proper" JRPG I saw/played. I stayed at a friend's house for a week during a time he was playing this (I "joined" at Treno and left at the battle with Amarant), and I was awed at this game. Fluid random battles, varied characters, playing different parties in different situations, engaging plot, gorgeous FMVs, amazing music... I fell in love with RPGs at this point. I later played the game properly and loved every second of it.

 

Skies of Arcadia: First "proper" JRPG I owned and played. Amazing. Everything it set out to do, it did perfectly, without ever slowing down or missing a beat. Amazing exploration aspects, fantastic music, cheery, optimistic plot, awesome moments all around, and an engaging battle system (both of them)

 

Tales of Symphonia: The game that showed me that RPGs do not need to fall on conventions such as a turn-based battle system, or permanent party members. With an overall excellent plot, even better characters and a very fun battle system, I feel compelled to recommend this to anyone who owns a Gamecube (though I suppose the recent Abyss and Vesperia may also have all of those qualities)

 

Mario&Luigi + Paper Mario series: These series told me something quite clear. Genres are a fairly flimsy distinction/limitation to have, sometimes. Brilliant, original ideas create brilliant, original games. Period.

 

Mother 3: This game manages to be a good parody of RPGs in general, while having a genuinely heart-wrenching story. Words do not do it justice. This game is art. Play it.

 

Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume: I feel I should mention this one. It's not often that you see a game with such a dark, serious, mature story. The main plot is not complete as long as you haven't gone through every possible path. The way the fate of the main character is determined due to the player's actions is simple, yet sublime.

 

Finally, I feel I should mention the Fire Emblem series. Simply the best Strategy RPG series around. Grand plot, amazing characters, accessible yet deep gameplay, enormous replay value... And yet I feel it's often underrated by the "mainstream" media and gamers.

Edited July 29, 2011 by Jonnas

[EEVILMURRAY]

No proper mention of Final Fantasy IV? It introduced the ATB system as was general storyline awesomeness.

[Hero-of-Time]

Finally, I feel I should mention the Fire Emblem series. Simply the best Strategy RPG series around. Grand plot, amazing characters, accessible yet deep gameplay, enormous replay value... And yet I feel it's often underrated by the "mainstream" media and gamers.

 

My first experience with SRPG's was with Mystaria on the Sega Saturn.

 

 

It was a breath of fresh air for me and felt very original. Despite loving the game I wasn't used to the genre and failed to complete it. It still holds a special place in my heart today.

 

My next experience with SRPG was again on the Sega Saturn. It was a game that got released but the story was never finsihed over here in the West due to the death of the Saturn. Of course i'm talking about Shining Force III.

 

 

This game was godly! It had great characters, a fantastic story and it looked amazing at the time. There have been many times where I have been browsing on ebay and been tempted to rebuy the game and another Saturn just so I can play this gem again. Truely this was the game that got me into the genre. It's always sad to see Sega use and abuse the Shining name these days by shoving it on to any old RPG.

 

Next up was a gem on the GBA that i'm sure many of us on here played. Take a bow Final Fantasy Tactics Advance.

 

 

Again another great story and another great set of characters. I must have spent AGES trying to finish all of the missions that became available during the course of the game. The whole Judge System of the game was such a neat little touch, even if it did seem a little unfair at times.

 

The last game I will mention is Fire Emblem on the Gamecube.

 

 

This was the first Fire Emblem game I had played as I passed on the GBA editions and I wasn't disappointed. As Jonnas said the game's story epic with characters that you really cared about. Sure the ranks do get a little large towards the end but everyone has a story to tell. It also gave me one of my favourite characters in a SRPG....

 

 

I love this guy! He's so cold and calculated, yet he still has a certain coolness about himself.

[Ike]

Finally, I feel I should mention the Fire Emblem series. Simply the best Strategy RPG series around. Grand plot, amazing characters, accessible yet deep gameplay, enormous replay value... And yet I feel it's often underrated by the "mainstream" media and gamers.

 

It sells pretty well apparently, bit of a mystery why New Mystery of the Emblem never got translated. Japanese import is pretty expensive as well