somme Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 I don't think Jon's actions were lazy I think your interpretation of them is. You're thinking just about the right amount to find fault. Think a little more and you'll find reasons for why these characters acted the way they did, think a little less and you'd enjoy one of the best battles of recent years. If you've got the time to watch a show you're not enjoying and then go online to pick out "faults" then by all means go ahead. Personally I just watch shows that I enjoy. I think they've signed on until season 8 but methinks it'd be better to sign them on for one more season after that. Definitely feels like we're entering the final stretch, I just don't want it rushed. There are so many plot points to finish off, some haven't even started yet.
Sheikah Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) Yeah but it usually means a plot point that comes out of nowhere, that hasn't been mentioned before. Both armies arriving when they did were perfectly reasonable, and explained many episodes previously. Correct. It was clearly being put into place in the previous episodes so not unexpected...and therefore not Deus Ex Machina. It's a very believable plot device too - allies turning up to turn the tide. Edited June 23, 2016 by Sheikah
dazzybee Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) People are defensive. It's like going on the ps4nboards and saying something slightly negative And if you think turning up at the last possible second, how convenient, wouldn't be against all odds in real life, completely unexpected in a logical world, then there's no point discussing it. It was deus ex machina at its very worst. And it's only a believable plot device because we've seen it a million times because it's so cheap and lazy. It was very loosely planted - why didn't she tell Jon about this army? Why didn't she bring it up when they were chatting about what they could do? She even said they need more men and didn't mention it? Maybe then they could've waited a few hours and attacked with them all together. But they didn't, because the writers are are lazy (or plain bad) that they artificially create drama and fuck logical behaviour. You be happy with it. Just accept I think differently to you. Think of the ending of a new hope, Han Solo does turn up to help save the day in a mild contrivance, but he was so embedded into the story it works, but also the hero STILL takes action. This is storytelling. It's the basics, passive characters are deeply unfulfilling. We want characters to be active. Irrespective of behaving in completely unbelievable ways mr snow (Somme I didn't mean the character was lazy, I meant the writing was) Han Solo rocking up at the end shooting darts Vader and then firing into the hole wouldn't be as good an ending would it Edited June 23, 2016 by dazzybee
somme Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 I knew what you meant. My point still stands. We don't know why she didn't tell him, yet. The story's not finished.
dazzybee Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 Any ways, if you don't want to chat about that. Do people think the sparrows are going to get destroyed next week. For me it's the only thing this season has nailed, this plot line, and I want them decimated.
somme Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 I'm hoping Cersei blows up King's Landing, them along with it. I hope the High Sparrow burns to ashes. (I think I'm channeling the Mad King).
dazzybee Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 I'm hoping Cersei blows up King's Landing, them along with it. I hope the High Sparrow burns to ashes. (I think I'm channeling the Mad King). Ha. It is appealing at times. What happens to the throne if she blows the whole place up?
somme Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 Ha. It is appealing at times. What happens to the throne if she blows the whole place up? I was thinking that. It'd be quite interesting if she does what I suggested and flees to Casterly Rock, which is really overdue an appearance. Dany shows up at Kings Landing, expecting a fight, and finds nothing but rubble. Does she rebuild Kings Landing and dig out the Iron Throne? Or move through Westeros killing everything. Could be quite a poignant, "What was it all for?" moment if there's no throne to actually fight for.
Sheikah Posted June 23, 2016 Posted June 23, 2016 (edited) People are defensive. It's like going on the ps4nboards and saying something slightly negative Not defensive. Just correct. And if you think turning up at the last possible second, how convenient, wouldn't be against all odds in real life, completely unexpected in a logical world, then there's no point discussing it. It was deus ex machina at its very worst. That's more like dramatic effect. It was pretty clearly orchestrated by Sansa in the run up to the battle and we all saw it. Deus ex machina is where something completely unexpected and contrived is roped in to bring an immediate conclusion to a problem...as there had been a heavy set up, I don't see how you can say it was unexpected or spontaneously devised. It brought an immediate end to the problem, but that is only part of the criteria to fulfill said phrase. And hey, if you really like, imagine scouts relayed the opportune moment to attack back to the forces. Given we know armies had scouts in ye olde times, that's no stretch of the imagination at all. Another way is to not interpret it so bluntly as to dismiss the entire plot. We all know the real reason they turned up at the last minute in the show is because it makes good TV. But that in itself is not the main point - in the grand scheme of things, they could have turned up earlier and that would have been enough. As long as you can believe Sansa got those forces to come at all, which I certainly can believe, then quite when they turned up and whether it was dramatic or not is not so important to me. Dramatic effect as I say; they want to make an epic battle rather than a less interesting one, but that doesn't mean they are inventing crazy plot devices to achieve it. Edited June 24, 2016 by Sheikah
EEVILMURRAY Posted June 24, 2016 Posted June 24, 2016 Yeah but it usually means a plot point that comes out of nowhere, that hasn't been mentioned before. Both armies arriving when they did were perfectly reasonable, and explained many episodes previously. And Gandalf said "Look to my coming, at first light, on the fifth day. At dawn, look to the East" but people still sighed a sigh of relief and went "Just in the nick of time" when he rocked up with the Riders of Rohan, which was basically this episode.
Agent Gibbs Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 Holy freakin god! the curse of the 9th episode being the best is broken! that was the best episode ever So where to begin Cersei certainly had a plan and boy what a plan! she wiped out the Tyrells, The Sparrow, the faith, a shit load of nobles, and indirectly King Tomen I was gob smacked by that first advert, I totally expected the wildfire just no that way. Jon is now considered king of the north, with rousing speeches by the little bear, and the cowards! Little finger putting seeds of doubt in Snasa's mind (she best not fuck with Jon so help me god) I did not expect that maid to be Arya, I thought Jamie had him killed at first, but man how many has Arya killed? she killed his main sons and had the time to butcher them and cook them! are a huge number of freys dead? I could see them merging her storyline with Lady Stone hearts to an extent and having her be the bane of the freys with the brotherhood Jamie is going to be interesting, Cersei effectively killed Tomen and I cannot see him taking that well, perhaps not well enough to be loyal to the new Queen Sam's bits were pointless as expected, but I suppose sets up for him learning (please dear god do not have him featured learning) And Bran finally gave us all what we wanted R + L = J is utterly True! Jon is not a Snow, he is not Ned's son he is the child of Raegar and Lyanna, a Stark and Targareon union and the strongest claim to the iron throne! the shots of Dany's fleet were pretty awesome I wonder, will Jon be the noble she is gets married to? and they unify the kingdoms? or will they be pitted against each other since he has the stongest claim? man why isn't the next season on next week?
Guy Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 Well. That sure delivered. The double whammy of episodes 9 and 10 really elevated the entire season. So much is gonna go down next year, can't wait.
EEVILMURRAY Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 Varys being in two places at once seemed a bit off.
Eddage Posted June 27, 2016 Posted June 27, 2016 Varys being in two places at once seemed a bit off. I think it's been heavily implied previously that time isn't running at the same time between each place. For example Bran wasn't building snowmen and having snowball fights for a year during season 5. It was a few episodes ago that Varys left, so he headed straight for Dorne and formed an allegiance with the Martells and Tyrells which didn't take long, then headed back to Dany with more ships (at the end there were ships with Greyjoy, Martell and Tyrell sigils). I'm pretty sure that weeks, maybe even months passed between the two scenes. Loved the episode, I reckon next season will be the big fight for the throne and then the last season will be a united Westeros fighting the Night King and his White Walkers.
Charlie Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 And Bran finally gave us all what we wanted R + L = J is utterly True! Jon is not a Snow, he is not Ned's son he is the child of Raegar and Lyanna, a Stark and Targareon union and the strongest claim to the iron throne! the shots of Dany's fleet were pretty awesome I wonder, will Jon be the noble she is gets married to? and they unify the kingdoms? or will they be pitted against each other since he has the stongest claim? man why isn't the next season on next week? Could Dany' really marry Jon Snow, her half brother? Stranger things have happened but they would without a doubt be the most powerful force in Westeros with the best claim to the thrown between them (or a child would be even more powerful claim).
Agent Gibbs Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Could Dany' really marry Jon Snow, her half brother? Stranger things have happened but they would without a doubt be the most powerful force in Westeros with the best claim to the thrown between them (or a child would be even more powerful claim). Bob is right, she's his aunt Raegar, Vyseris and Danaeys are all the children of the Mad king So Jon and Dany were born at similar times, but in the line of succession the First Born was Raegar and arguably his son Jon has a good claim to the throne besides which the Targareons were known to marry cousin's, half brothers and sisters - its mentioned a lot in the books and the show has mentioned it too, usually by Jamie/Cersei trying to justify that its not that unusal
Charlie Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 An aunt is probably alright in terms of Game of Thrones tbh. I can see that happening.
Shorty Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 It's kinda crazy to think that Dany is on her way across the sea. She's been in the show since the first episode but barely interacted with any of the other main characters. Now she will start having scenes with more Lannisters and Jon Snow etc.... The lines were already blurred a bit but it's crazy that these two worlds are about to collide after six seasons apart.
dan-likes-trees Posted June 28, 2016 Posted June 28, 2016 Agreed agreed agreed. Gonna be real sad when this ends. The only TV show in the last few years that's a genuine weekly watercooler event, to my mind. Everyone in my office was talking about it all day.. and the only guy who wasn't has been catching up during lunchbreaks, lol. Loved the shot of Tommen killing himself. As someone or other put it, 'Tommen perfects the King's Landing'. I'd almost zoned out and had to rewind to check what had just happened. Opening scenes were masterful, with dat music. Shout out to the amazing tracking shot in last week's battle too. The only odd thing about the last couple of episodes is how wish-fulfilment-y they were.. can't quite imagine Martin giving the audience such an abundance of things they want to happen. Also leaves the show with only a couple of interesting villains. For a show of such dynamic, varied, nuanced characters it seems odd to me that the mute Night's King will ultimately be the main antagonist. But I have faith. Any book readers got any spin-off suggestions for when the series ends?
Charlie Posted June 29, 2016 Posted June 29, 2016 ] I was thinking earlier about Dany + Jon... What about Dany + Jamie Lannister? Tyrion was obviously made hand of the king, has a good relationship with his brother despite killing the father. If Jamie is sufficiently pissed off with Cersei because she caused Tommen to kill himself he might get rid of her, get with Dany and then it will be Dany + Jamie vs Jon Snow.... Or Dany + Jamie, and Jon Snow vs the White Walkers. Dany + Jamie ruling the south and Jon Snow being the King of the North.
MindFreak Posted June 29, 2016 Posted June 29, 2016 ] I was thinking earlier about Dany + Jon... What about Dany + Jamie Lannister? Tyrion was obviously made hand of the king, has a good relationship with his brother despite killing the father. If Jamie is sufficiently pissed off with Cersei because she caused Tommen to kill himself he might get rid of her, get with Dany and then it will be Dany + Jamie vs Jon Snow.... Or Dany + Jamie, and Jon Snow vs the White Walkers. Dany + Jamie ruling the south and Jon Snow being the King of the North. I cannot imagine that Jon would actually go forthe Iron Throne, why would he? He knows that there are is more important stuff to worry about, and never ever has he been interested in the war of the throne. Seeing as Jamie likes blonds, I would go with your thought and say "Why not?"
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