Hero-of-Time Posted January 16 Posted January 16 I'm sure some of you may have read this interview that popped up yesterday. The director of subscriptions (can't believe that's an actual thing) over at Ubisoft was asked about subscription models. Full interview can be found HERE Quote "One of the things we saw is that gamers are used to, a little bit like DVD, having and owning their games. That's the consumer shift that needs to happen. They got comfortable not owning their CD collection or DVD collection. That's a transformation that's been a bit slower to happen [in games]. As gamers grow comfortable in that aspect… you don't lose your progress. If you resume your game at another time, your progress file is still there. That's not been deleted. You don't lose what you've built in the game or your engagement with the game. So it's about feeling comfortable with not owning your game. "I still have two boxes of DVDs. I definitely understand the gamers perspective with that. But as people embrace that model, they will see that these games will exist, the service will continue, and you'll be able to access them when you feel like. That's reassuring." Yes, I do like owning the things I spend my money on, especially with games. At least when I buy a game I have it there to play whenever I have the desire to do so. For example, I've recently been playing Kirby Air Ride. This game is not available anywhere legally other than having the original game. The same can be said for TV subscription services. There are so many movies that aren't part of these services and you still have to buy them separately, not to mention them switching between services. The last point is something that has been seen in the games subscription space, with Game Pass and PS+ both swapping games between each of them. The last part of the quote is hilarious. Ubisoft are up there with EA for shutting down support of older games and them being delisted. The subscription service may continue but the games on there may not be there forever. 1
Dcubed Posted January 16 Posted January 16 (edited) It does feel a bit like a Black Mirror episode turned into reality doesn't it? I don't mind subscription services when the games/movies/TV/whatever are also available elsewhere, but when it's the only game in town? Shit's dystopic. I still wish that Nintendo would bring back the Virtual Console service, or at least offer an option to buy their retro games piecemeal outside of the NSO app. I bought the Mario Kart 8 DLC, despite getting it for free with my NSO subscription because I wanted to own it. I'm sure I wouldn't be alone. Ownership is only going to become more and more important as digital services continue to take over and physical games die out. But even here, the value of physical games themselves are dying out because the physical games themselves are increasingly becoming useless coasters that act as unlock keys for games that have the majority of their game content released as downloads. Almost every modern game these days requires some sort of update or download right from day 1 to either fix some sort of game breaking bug, or deliver the actual finished game content; so in 10-15 years or whatever, when the servers go down? Those games will either be missing huge chunks of game content, or be literally useless. And unfortunately, Nintendo are pretty much the only video game publisher who actively reprint their games with updates and DLC content included on their physical media; a saving grace for games like New Pokemon Snap (where literally half of the game's entire content was released as a post-launch update), but these efforts are still far and few inbetween as far as the industry goes as a whole (and even here, the second hand market will still be full of copies that are missing half of the entire game - but at least the option exists). Digital might be more convinient, but it is also transient. I'm glad that I bought both physical and digital copies of my entire 3DS and Wii U collections (especially now that the eShop is gone), and I'll be doing the same with Switch once its successor comes out and I can get my hands on those reprint copies with the updates and DLC included on the cheap (there's an awesome dude keeping track of all of the various Switch cartridge revisions in a handy Google Doc Spreasheet here and here!) Edited January 16 by Dcubed 1
Cube Posted January 16 Posted January 16 I have no interest in buying a game tied to servers. It just means that they can disable the game for everyone whenever they want, where the game is only playable if a group of dedicated fans develop the software to get it working again (like Star Wars Galaxies). While it wasn't a good game, The Avengers showed that it could be done, even for online-focused games: it fully works offline. Even the store and unlocking the battle pass stuff works. I also have no interest in supporting subscription services that deal with exclusive stuff for games, such as Apple Arcade and Nintendo Switch Online. I'm fine with subscriptions as an option, and I've used Game Pass and PS Now to try out all sorts of games that I would have never played otherwise. In terms of digital vs physical, I'm not too bothered. I'm fine with going into unofficial routes to access games that are no longer sold. Companies like Limited Run Games use preservation as a marketing point, but really, their versions aren't very accessible, as physical copies just get more expensive over time. 30 minutes ago, Dcubed said: And unfortunately, Nintendo are pretty much the only video game publisher who actively reprint their games with updates and DLC content included on their physical media; I'm hoping for complete editions of Smash Bros and Mario Kart 8, but don't have much faith. 1
Dcubed Posted January 16 Posted January 16 18 minutes ago, Cube said: I'm hoping for complete editions of Smash Bros and Mario Kart 8, but don't have much faith. It's so frustrating that they released that physical version of MK8DX with the Booster Course Pass included... up to Wave 5. Like, come on! You couldn't wait an extra month to make it complete!? Still hoping that they do another reprint with Wave 6 included this time. Failing that? Well, there's always Mario Kart 8 Deluxe Deluxe for Switch 2 I suppose. 1
EEVILMURRAY Posted January 16 Posted January 16 I really dislike non-physical stuff. Every time I get something on Steam I worry that something will fuck up and corrupt everything. I've bought some games digitally on Switch etc, but they are ones I could in theory do without, but that doesn't mean I enjoy the risk. I want to play Sea of Stars, but I've been waiting for the physical release 1
Ashley Posted January 16 Posted January 16 Theoretically no. But that is in an ideal world where you could access what you want without fear that it'll be taken away. 2
RedShell Posted January 16 Posted January 16 Yes. But also, (increasingly) no. My opinion on this tends to vary quite a bit to be honest. While I do enjoy owning a collection of games, in reality it's become incredibly rare that I replay them. I'd rather be playing something new, so in that sense, keeping physical copies is pretty much pointless as they're just packed away and taking up space. I guess the possibility that I might want to revisit some in the future is always there in the back of my mind though and that's why I hold on to them, but it's pretty unlikely, even more so for the really retro stuff where condition of the games themselves or console lifespan becomes an issue over time as well. I think shifting over to mainly PC gaming a few years ago had a big impact on the way I see this too. As far as I can tell, digital is the only option on PC these days, even if you buy a physical copy of a game (the last one for me was Cyberpunk 2077) it's just a download code inside the box. Hell, my current desktop doesn't even have any kind of optical drive. Another contributing factor is Game Pass, which just like PS+ before it has given me the opportunity to experience many different games, some of which in genres that I would not usually play. It's a fantastic option for expanding your gaming horizons and making new discoveries. I don't stay permanently subscribed to the service, usually just a couple of months a year or whenever a game I particularly like the look of gets added. The fact that I then don't actually own any of those games just isn't a problem in my eyes, I simply enjoy whatever stuff I play through on there and then move on to something else. I own the memories, man! Anyway, that's my take on it, I can definitely see it from both sides. Hopefully things will remain similar to how they are at the moment, with the option to purchase and own games alongside the option of streaming/renting them. I mean you can still buy physical copies of films or music, despite the existence of Netflix, Spotify, etc. so gaming should theoretically follow the same path, right? 2
Hero-of-Time Posted January 17 Author Posted January 17 17 hours ago, Dcubed said: It's so frustrating that they released that physical version of MK8DX with the Booster Course Pass included... up to Wave 5. Like, come on! You couldn't wait an extra month to make it complete!? I found this to be utterly bonkers. As you said, just wait and month and start printing complete copies. 11 hours ago, RedShell said: Hopefully things will remain similar to how they are at the moment, with the option to purchase and own games alongside the option of streaming/renting them. I mean you can still buy physical copies of films or music, despite the existence of Netflix, Spotify, etc. so gaming should theoretically follow the same path, right? I think it's slightly different for the games industry than in movies or music. The games industry seems hellbent on doing away with physical media. It's not just subscription services but things like locking exclusive content to download only copies or digital copies being released a week or a few days earlier than retail. They have been pushing for the death of discs/carts for a while now as it gives them far more control and is obviously cheaper for them. CDs/DVDs/Blu-Ray sales are not nearly as big as the used to be but those industries seem to still see the value of releasing a product on physical media, at least for the moment. This may change in the future but when it comes to doing away with the physical goods, I don't think the music or movie industries are as nearly as aggressive as what the games industry has been. Of course, I don't follow these industries nearly as much as I follow gaming and so I could be way off base here. 1
Dcubed Posted January 17 Posted January 17 No, you’re spot on @Hero-of-Time. The games industry is very aggressively pushing for an all digital future in the way that no other industry is. Putting aside the issue of industrial level malice for the time being, I think one of the biggest reasons why this is happening within the games industry in particular is because its products lack a real secondary form of revenue. Books have library and educational sale, theatre have recordings and movie adaptation, while film is primarily made for the box office with physical DVD/Blu-ray sales and TV syndication being secondary sources of revenue that come after its box office life has ended. Video games though? Once you buy it, that’s it… which is why so much effort now goes into after sale of DLC and “recurrent user spending” (microtransactions/scam content). Now, ironically, video games did once have their own equivalent of the box office… the arcades. Games would come to the arcades and make their money there before coming to home consoles (and eventually handhelds too). But by the mid 2000s? The arcades were virtually dead, and DLC/microtransactions began in lieu; especially as arcade developers died out and PC focused western developers really began to dominate the market from the Xbox 360 onwards. 1 1
RedShell Posted January 17 Posted January 17 4 hours ago, Dcubed said: Now, ironically, video games did once have their own equivalent of the box office… the arcades. Games would come to the arcades and make their money there before coming to home consoles (and eventually handhelds too). But by the mid 2000s? The arcades were virtually dead, and DLC/microtransactions began in lieu; especially as arcade developers died out and PC focused western developers really began to dominate the market from the Xbox 360 onwards. Interesting. I've not thought about it like that before, but makes a lot of sense. Also, I miss the arcade scene. 1
Hero-of-Time Posted January 17 Author Posted January 17 4 hours ago, Dcubed said: Books have library and educational sale, theatre have recordings and movie adaptation, while film is primarily made for the box office with physical DVD/Blu-ray sales and TV syndication being secondary sources of revenue that come after its box office life has ended. I remember Matt Damon talking about this and how streaming services had changed things for the worse. https://blog.son-video.com/en/2022/09/matt-damon-is-worried-about-the-end-of-dvd-and-blu-ray/
RedShell Posted January 17 Posted January 17 1 hour ago, Hero-of-Time said: I remember Matt Damon talking about this and how streaming services had changed things for the worse. https://blog.son-video.com/en/2022/09/matt-damon-is-worried-about-the-end-of-dvd-and-blu-ray/ 4
RedShell Posted January 17 Posted January 17 GOG taking a dig at Ubisoft: DRM-free is indeed a big plus for GOG. Which reminds me about some of the shenanigans that Capcom have been pulling recently on Steam, patching in new and (by the sounds of things) pretty sketchy DRM to their games, even much older titles. 2 1
Hero-of-Time Posted January 17 Author Posted January 17 Larian Studios founder also hits back at the comments Ubisoft have made. 1 1
Jonnas Posted January 17 Posted January 17 For me, it is. I'm not even talking about the digital/physical split. You can own a digital collection (even with the risk of certain games being pulled from digital stores). Plus, companies like GOG do care about consumers having a collection that's actually theirs (I can even give a friend a copy of a digital GOG game I purchased. It's like borrowing cartridges all over again). No, it's the subscription services that I distrust. Those are services you can't pick, choose, or curate. Imagine having your leisurely playthrough of Skyrim or BotW be rushed by the deadline in your subscriptions. Imagine purchasing a 6-month subscription of an hypothetical Square-Enix's GamePass, only to see them sell your favourite IPs the following week. Imagine having your yearly DKC3 playthrough be entirely dependent on purchasing a whole year of NSO. Imagine having P.T. or Mario 3D All-Stars be tied to a couple of months each on a service, and then they're gone forever, nobody keeps them. I look at the current state of streaming services and I get headaches. I'd rather that not happen to the medium I'm more passionate about. 1
Hero-of-Time Posted January 18 Author Posted January 18 8 hours ago, Jonnas said: Imagine having your yearly DKC3 playthrough be entirely dependent on purchasing a whole year of NSO. This is where I'm at now. My subscription ran out at the start of the year and I really want to play Golden Sun but I can't purchase them outright and if I do want to play them again I'm going to have to subscribe for a year. I was also halfway through a playthrough of Jet Force Gemini when my sub ran out. Sucks.
RedShell Posted January 18 Posted January 18 8 hours ago, Hero-of-Time said: This is where I'm at now. My subscription ran out at the start of the year and I really want to play Golden Sun but I can't purchase them outright and if I do want to play them again I'm going to have to subscribe for a year. I was also halfway through a playthrough of Jet Force Gemini when my sub ran out. Sucks. I was just thinking there's no way that you would need a year to play through those games why not just resubscribe for 1 month? Then I remembered that isn't actually an option for the Expansion Pack. So yeah, that does indeed suck. Anyway, if you do plan to subscribe again, ShopTo have it at a much better price than the eShop: https://www.shopto.net/en/ndo10009344-nintendo-switch-on-line-expansion-pack-365-p1179195/ 1
Hero-of-Time Posted January 18 Author Posted January 18 6 minutes ago, RedShell said: I was just thinking there's no way that you would need a year to play through those games why not just resubscribe for 1 month? Then I remembered that isn't actually an option for the Expansion Pack. So yeah, that does indeed suck. Anyway, if you do plan to subscribe again, ShopTo have it at a much better price than the eShop: https://www.shopto.net/en/ndo10009344-nintendo-switch-on-line-expansion-pack-365-p1179195/ Yeah, subscribing here and there when needed would soften the blow. I'll probably resubscribe soon as they have me by the short and curlies if I wanna play these games on my Switch.
Hero-of-Time Posted January 18 Author Posted January 18 On 16/01/2024 at 1:55 PM, EEVILMURRAY said: I want to play Sea of Stars, but I've been waiting for the physical release Looks like your wait is nearly over. https://www.gematsu.com/2024/01/sea-of-stars-physical-edition-launches-may-10
drahkon Posted January 18 Posted January 18 On 1/16/2024 at 2:55 PM, EEVILMURRAY said: I want to play Sea of Stars, You really don't. 3
Glen-i Posted January 19 Posted January 19 14 hours ago, Sheikah said: You really do. Awesome game. 16 hours ago, drahkon said: You really don't. Gotta side with @Sheikah on this one. Just finished. Very excellent. 1
Sheikah Posted January 19 Posted January 19 It's especially good if you loved Chrono Trigger. It really captures the spirit of the game, very impressive stuff.
Glen-i Posted January 19 Posted January 19 12 minutes ago, Sheikah said: It's especially good if you loved Chrono Trigger. It really captures the spirit of the game, very impressive stuff. The spirit and aesthetic, yes, but weirdly, not the gameplay. It's more akin to Golden Sun dungeons with Paper Mario style battles.
Sheikah Posted January 19 Posted January 19 The spirit and aesthetic, yes, but weirdly, not the gameplay. It's more akin to Golden Sun dungeons with Paper Mario style battles.I disagree there - apart from the fact you can time attacks in Sea of Stars, the rest of the battle system is pretty similar. Including having enemies always on screen prior to the battle, combined tech attacks, localised attacks affecting specific areas of the battlefield, destructible parts of bosses to make the fight easier. Aesthetically it looks very similar too in battles. It doesn't have ATB but that doesn't feel too different to me when I play.
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