Xbox Series S | X Console Discussion

[Ronnie]

Xbox have been on fire lately! Some incredible moves and such a contrast to Sony sitting back, not saying much and just releasing their big games. If you can mix PS4’s first party output and Xbox’s... everything else, for next gen that’d be the perfect “hardcore” platform. 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Ronnie

[Dcubed]

12 hours ago, killthenet said:

I don't know where you get that idea @Dcubed, the difference in specs between PS5 and Series X will be negligible - if there's even a difference at all. There definitely won't be the gulf between base systems like there was last time round

No way.  We've already seen the PS5 dev kit; it's not even half the size of the Series X (which has totally given up on the standard console form factor and is shipping in an ITX sized case).  The simple laws of thermodynamics mean that the Series X will be substantially more powerful.  It simply has far more room for cooling and more room for a bigger die on its chips.  The trade off is that the Series X will, of course, be much larger and unlikely to fit into a standard entertainment setup; it will also probably be a lot more expensive.

 

Both consoles will also be far more expensive than previous machines, simply because of the SSD alone (which alone will add around £150-200 on the BOM by itself!); never mind the high-end GPUs and Ryzen CPUs that they're shipping with.  However.  It's not 2013 anymore.  These days, people have been conditioned to accept £1,000+ smartphones as the norm; and I suspect that Microsoft will be pushing to sell the Series X on a smartphone style contract as the norm, like what they've already been experimenting with in the US with the Xbox One X.

 

£200 upfront, £25 a month for 24 months with Game Pass included? That's a LOT more pallatable to the average consumer than an off contract price of £799.99; and I suspect that this is the angle that Microsoft will push as the primary way to buy the console.

 

Sony's console also won't be cheap, but it won't be as much as the Series X (I'd be very surprised if it was only $499.99; $599.99 is much more realistic given the SSD and the specs).  On the other hand, Game Pass is a true killer app and it's gonna be the big USP that will allow Microsoft to get away with selling the console on contract.

 

The old economics of gaming hardware are long dead.  We live in an age of smartphone contracts being the norm; where even 10 year old children have smartphones where their parents buy contracts for them.  Don't expect pricing to fall in line with previous hardware and don't expect the same model of sale to be used this time around.  The pricing and subscription models on display are, by far, going to be the most interesting aspect of this new generation of hardware I reckon.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Dcubed

[killthenet]

I get the logic of your argument @Dcubed but I don't think it will quite play out like that. Those PS5 dev kits could require a huge power supply to function but it's just hidden from view under the desk. Just because the series X look large in the official photos doesn't mean there will be any more surface area than you get from the more traditional flatter & wider form factor of conventional games consoles. From the leaks (and what Sony has discussed) it seems like the two platforms will be very close in terms of raw CPU & GPU performance. If there is a gulf we likely won't see it for a couple of years anyway, given Microsoft's insistence on supporting the base Xbox One.

I think it's a bit too early for them to go with an outright contract model too, I don't think consumers are ready for it en mass. Microsoft will probably offer the same deal they do with the X in some territories but they won't market it as the way to own their console. Both consoles will undoubtedly be more expensive than normal but I don't think they'll cost consumers anything close to what you predict, will be £550 at the very most. 

Edited February 25, 2020 by killthenet

[Nicktendo]

I cannot speak as to what the prices of the games consoles will be, but I don't know how Microsoft can potentially offer what they're seemingly offering for $500 and walk away with a cent of profit.

Although I skipped this gen, it's mega interesting watching how things are developing from the sidelines.

@Dcubed's theory about a mobile style payment plan is definitely something I can see being implemented. In fact, it makes complete sense. Get a nice down payment, 24 month contract, get people hooked on the idea of "playing anything" and not owning games and you're guaranteed to get a massive number of subs in the long run. Interesting theory. Part of me hopes the go down this road, just to see how it changes the industry. 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Nicktendo

[Sheikah]

Because the Series X is gonna be about twice the physical size of the PS5.

 

Simple.  Unless Sony want to put out a behemoth of a console, like what Microsoft are doing, it can't possibly match the Series X's specs.

 

On the flipside, the PS5 will no doubt be substantially cheaper than the Series X (though I suspect that it itself will end up being $599.99/€599.99)

 

Ok, your post followed on from that of "Smart Delivery" so I thought you were saying Sony wouldn't be able to match Microsoft's ability to give gamers the PS5 versions of games they already own. I very much expect them to - at least, there's no reason they shouldn't.

 

I think you're vastly overestimating the need for power here. Sony don't need to match crazy specs. If Microsoft target a level of power that means their system is prohibitively expensive then that's a real misstep. They don't want to be in the same situation as at the start of last gen.

 

Ultimately though I think this power talk is a lot of smoke and mirrors - Microsoft actually need to develop some good exclusive games this time round to entice people over. They've got a much more difficult task ahead of them this time - people have now amassed big digital libraries on their chosen formats and now the next consoles are backwards compatible they can carry on playing them. I can't see a lot of PS4 owners jumping ship unless Sony royally fuck up or Microsoft somehow deliver a lot of good games around launch.

 

One last point on price - remember that both companies can afford to sell at a bigger loss now than in previous generations. They make much more money from subscriptions and digital sales than at the start of the last generation so can afford to take more of a hit to secure more long term sales. Not saying they definitely plan to take more of a hit, just that they can.

[Map]

Lots of Xbox Series X news today.
 

and a fridge for scale 

 

[Ronnie]

Nice! 

Loving all these updates, definitely making me want a new Xbox

[Map]

Yeah it’s looking like a really powerful, well thought out console, if the new studios can deliver a better library of games they should do well next gen.

[Happenstance]

34 minutes ago, Map said:

 if the new studios can deliver a better library of games

That's really the important bit for me and honestly even with the new devs they bought I don't have a lot of confidence.

[Sheikah]

26 minutes ago, Happenstance said:

That's really the important bit for me and honestly even with the new devs they bought I don't have a lot of confidence.

Yep, that's what really matters at the end of the day. Right now having good exclusives is a bit of an unknown for Microsoft's console (especially since some exclusives got cancelled partway through development this gen). I'm sure it'll be great for playing multiplatform games but at the end of the day if I want to play the inevitable God of War 2 and FF7 instalments (a year before the other system), I know which I'll be buying.

[Goron_3]

Good lord, the Digital Foundry video makes this thing sound incredible. 

The elephant in the room is price. Can't they keep it below £500?

Fascinated by Sony's complete silence. If anything it makes me think that Microsoft have produced a much more powerful console.

[Kaepora_Gaebora]

3 hours ago, Goron_3 said:

Good lord, the Digital Foundry video makes this thing sound incredible. 

The elephant in the room is price. Can't they keep it below £500?

Fascinated by Sony's complete silence. If anything it makes me think that Microsoft have produced a much more powerful console.

I have a feeling they are really going to try and push a monthly installment plan (like mobile) with this thing to make it seem like "value for money"; I've seen Game have Xbox One X with Gold and Game Pass for approx £20 a month or something like that, over 30 months or so, I reckon MS themselves will offer a plan to try and get people on board (think they already do in US).

If the price is right I'll be there on launch, if not I'll try and wait until the first significant drop or bundled game ( got my original One with Titanfall).

Edited March 16, 2020 by Kaepora_Gaebora

[Julius]

Yeah, the installment-type plan mentioned by @Kaepora_Gaebora here and @Dcubed elsewhere a while back makes more and more sense the more that I think about it, and honestly, think they'd be silly to not at least offer that if the upfront cost is going to be upwards of £500. Great call guys.

£25/month for 24 months (£600 total), or something similar, bundled with Games Pass Ultimate for the first year would be a stellar deal, and make the console much more appealing to me to pick up on day 1 than if that weren't an option.

I'm in for a PS5 on day 1 regardless, thanks to their great catalogue of games this gen, and so it's going to take some sort of drastic action like that for me to consider an Xbox (if for nothing else, I'd actually like to get caught up on the Halo series, and I'm not especially big on PC gaming).

[Ronnie]

If Series X (I still think that's just a placeholder name) is more powerful than PS5 I'll probably get it at launch to play all the multiplatform games. It's the reason I bought an X and haven't touched my PS4 for a couple years. I can get Horizon 2 (not desperate to go back to that world) and God of War 2 later on if games is all that PS5 brings.

[Julius]

1 minute ago, Ronnie said:

If Series X (I still think that's just a placeholder name) is more powerful than PS5 I'll probably get it at launch to play all the multiplatform games. It's the reason I bought an X and haven't touched my PS4 for a couple years.

Honestly, I think that's a fair enough reason, and I feel like some could follow suit. If you're not all that interested in PlayStation exclusives and are mostly having fun with multiplatform titles on the more powerful consoles, I think it makes more sense to get the more powerful console from the get-go.

I do still think it'll be interesting to see how close the PS5 is to the Series X in raw specs. I expect the latter to outperform the former in that regard, sure, but I don't think that it's going to dwarf it in the way many elsewhere seem to think will be the case.

Quote

 I can get Horizon 2 (not desperate to go back to that world) and God of War 2 later on if games is all that PS5 brings.

If those are the only games that entice you, sure, though games is just about the main reason I want a PS5 over anything else right now, and I'm not quite sure what you expect the Series X to do beyond play games amazingly well. We've seen the mess that can be made if you focus on anything other than being a dedicated gaming console, and personally, I'm far too invested in a number of series which will likely continue to either be exclusives or timed exclusives to the PlayStation brand. 

[Sheikah]

If those are the only games that entice you, sure, though games is just about the main reason I want a PS5 over anything else right now, and I'm not quite sure what you expect the Series X to do beyond play games amazingly well. We've seen the mess that can be made if you focus on anything other than being a dedicated gaming console, and personally, I'm far too invested in a number of series which will likely continue to either be exclusives or timed exclusives to the PlayStation brand. 

 

I'm sure this whole thirst for power with Microsoft started after the PS4 was released and was more powerful than the X1 despite being cheaper. Since then we saw the Xbox One X release which in my opinion was complete overkill at £450, for a mid gen console with realistically about 3 years left of the generation. I reckon something about having the technically 'inferior' console irked Microsoft and they want to be on top in this area. 

 

To be honest I don't see how this reveal on its own could realistically be convincing anyone to buy it without any game announcements to back it up yet, since that's where Microsoft need to prove themselves. Sure it's exciting to see a console released but in all honesty, would you sacrifice actual great games for graphics looking a bit nicer? Like, no follow ups to Bloodborne, Persona, God of War, Nioh, FFVII, Horizon, Last of Us, Yakuza, Studio Japan games, Kojima games...

 

I'm probably missing some out but you get my drift. Not saying Microsoft don't have their games, but there's been an obvious disparity this gen.

 

To me it's a bit like if there was an alternative to the Nintendo Switch made by a competitor, that had higher resolution and slightly better graphics...but no Nintendo games. I wouldn't be buying it.

[Kaepora_Gaebora]

6 hours ago, Sheikah said:

 

I'm sure this whole thirst for power with Microsoft started after the PS4 was released and was more powerful than the X1 despite being cheaper. Since then we saw the Xbox One X release which in my opinion was complete overkill at £450, for a mid gen console with realistically about 3 years left of the generation. I reckon something about having the technically 'inferior' console irked Microsoft and they want to be on top in this area. 

 

To be honest I don't see how this reveal on its own could realistically be convincing anyone to buy it without any game announcements to back it up yet, since that's where Microsoft need to prove themselves. Sure it's exciting to see a console released but in all honesty, would you sacrifice actual great games for graphics looking a bit nicer? Like, no follow ups to Bloodborne, Persona, God of War, Nioh, FFVII, Horizon, Last of Us, Yakuza, Studio Japan games, Kojima games...

 

I'm probably missing some out but you get my drift. Not saying Microsoft don't have their games, but there's been an obvious disparity this gen.

 

To me it's a bit like if there was an alternative to the Nintendo Switch made by a competitor, that had higher resolution and slightly better graphics...but no Nintendo games. I wouldn't be buying it.

Yeah gameplay is king for me; call me stuck in my own ways but I still prefer the 3DS/Switch Monster Hunter games to World, and when I think about it I just visualise the game play rather than how the monsters look etc.

I'm not convinced Halo Infinite is going to be the show stopper they need, the name implies it might be an open world Halo which for me feels about 2 years too late, add to that 343 Industries has made a bit of a mess of the franchise since taking over from Bungie and, of course, it'll be available on One X and S as well, and it might not be the launch title the console needs to push it.

However, Game Pass could be the killer app, especially for people thinking about going back to or getting an Xbox for the first time. If you could get a new console, online subscription AND access to over 100 games at launch (including Halo Infinite/first party titles) included in that price (still thinking about the monthly price model) it's a heck of a sell, certainly compared to what we are used to with a new console launch with games being an absolute bank breaker.

What does make me laugh is the loading times focus, and how "quickly" it now loads; it's probably my version of @Kav 's voice chat nightmare but modern loading times do my head in...how can the N64 still have immediate loading times and this console not some 20 years later, regardless of cartridge or disc based format?! Crazy 🤦‍♂️

[Sheikah]

Although Game Pass is great value for money, I don't see it having the power to dramatically change the landscape next gen based on one reason - it already exists and hasn't really helped reverse the 2:1 sales ratio of the PS4 to X1. With a "service", even though a great one, I think it's harder to wow people over in comparison to having that new game that everyone wants. FF7, for instance, is appealing to people's nostalgia (and based on the demo looks like it will be a great game).

I do wonder about how Game Pass is sustainable in the long term as well - there's no doubt that Microsoft games going straight on Game Pass are making a lot less money, absolutely no doubt in my mind. This is compounded by the fact you can still get 3 years of Game Pass for effectively 1 dollar (I kid you not - check out that link!). And even for people not stacking 3 years of Live, I read that the 1 dollar trial can be repeated over and over. Microsoft must surely be losing money on this (or making significantly less than they normally would), but by having Game Pass they can report some very lucrative "sales" figures (and comment on how vast numbers of people are playing their games at launch). An example of this is how they commented on having 3 million players in the opening weekend for Gears 5. When you consider how many were playing that on 1 dollar game passes versus paying the 60 dollar new game cost, you have to wonder how much profit they were making.

Not that I'm saying I wouldn't love it if PS4 did a Game Pass of their own (with the same pricing/trial structure), I'm just not sure how long it could stick around with a seemingly everlasting trial price.

Edited March 17, 2020 by Sheikah

[Goron_3]

17 hours ago, Ronnie said:

If Series X (I still think that's just a placeholder name) is more powerful than PS5 I'll probably get it at launch to play all the multiplatform games. It's the reason I bought an X and haven't touched my PS4 for a couple years. I can get Horizon 2 (not desperate to go back to that world) and God of War 2 later on if games is all that PS5 brings.

It's worth keeping in mind that even if one of these consoles is a bit stronger that the other, they will both be 4K machines with modern architectures and modern CPU's. The gap between the two will likely be tiny, whereas there was a big gap between say the XOX and the PS4. That said, from your PoV it makes a lot of sense as you can simply move everything from yoiur X to the Series X.

Gamepass is the biggest feature that attracts me tbh. It's just a brilliant feature.

[Julius]

Don't think anyone's posted the loading time tech demo for Series X here yet?

Not sure if it puts the game and One X in the greatest light, if I'm being honest 

[Kaepora_Gaebora]

1 hour ago, Julius said:

Don't think anyone's posted the loading time tech demo for Series X here yet?

Not sure if it puts the game and One X in the greatest light, if I'm being honest 

I didn't post it but mentioned it in my reaction to the reveal... exactly that, I mean it's laughable! 😂 Even the Series X shouldn't be boasting about how long that takes in this day and age! 

Reminds me of when they revealed a Call of Duty game (possibly Infinite Warfare or the one before) when they boasted about the fish being so intelligent that when you swam past them they moved away, and then it was put against a video of Mario 64 and the fish doing exactly that 🤦‍♂️

[Goron_3]

4 hours ago, Julius said:

Don't think anyone's posted the loading time tech demo for Series X here yet?

Not sure if it puts the game and One X in the greatest light, if I'm being honest 

That's actually hilarious.

I expect Sony to go in hard at their conference when it comes to the speed of the console. From what I've read, they've invested a lot of money in the speed of their custom SSD's.

[Ronnie]

2 hours ago, Kaepora_Gaebora said:

I didn't post it but mentioned it in my reaction to the reveal... exactly that, I mean it's laughable! 😂 Even the Series X shouldn't be boasting about how long that takes in this day and age! 

Reminds me of when they revealed a Call of Duty game (possibly Infinite Warfare or the one before) when they boasted about the fish being so intelligent that when you swam past them they moved away, and then it was put against a video of Mario 64 and the fish doing exactly that 🤦‍♂️

Could they not have picked slicker gameplay to demo?! The last 10+ seconds are literally him awkwardly fumbling around inside a small room

[Sheikah]

I'm guessing they used that game to demo because of the insane load times. Most games don't have loading times that are that long.

[Ike]

The Series X doesn't have SSD, or is just just because of Sony's propriety version?

You need a propriety storage device to extend the storage for the Series X.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/16/xbox-series-x-will-need-custom-external-hard-drives-expand-storage-12406934/