PS4 Pro

[Ashley]

The PS4K will have two modes for every game, original, and upgraded.

 

The developers will have the option to do this according to the rumour.

 

You call me a liar, because of one typo, and then complain that I'm treating you in a shitty way? I should "have the decency" to go back and correct this "lie"?? It was obvious to anyone reading my post that it was inaccurate. I hadn't been back in the Uncharted 4 thread until today when I've only just realised my typo. Next time someone makes an obvious error while typing like saying the release of Starfox is out in a couple of weeks instead of a couple of days, are you going to call them a liar as well?

 

It's not like the post was yesterday, there has been sufficent time since then and you get notified when quoted. Furthermore saying you haven't looked since suggests you do just pop into threads to annoy others but not willing to stick around to debate.

 

You're honestly telling me I'm the only person who said that? That sentiment has been said over the past year or so at least a dozen times. Want proof? Here you go...

 

No I explicitly stated that you are the only one to use that "exact phrase". Not that nobody has said something similar, but you have a habit of getting a belief stuck in your mind (that phrase) and run with it without checking.

 

Yes they do. You posted people saying those exact words.

 

People said it about being hit by a blue shell (they weren't actually annoyed with Nintendo), an understocked accessory (reasonable to be annoyed) and an understocked limited promotion (again reasonable given that it was first come first served but as a customer you can't guarantee when you will get a delivery).

 

I bring it up every time it happens. Apologies, I'm not about to spend even more time trawling through an entire message board looking for more examples. From now on I'll flag them up and PM them at a later date if you'd like.

 

When did it happen in the last post since you said this. And this still doesn't acknowledge the point I had. I told you to stop saying this until you can prove it. You continue to ignore this.

[Sheikah]

The new 3DS was released four years after the original, not two and a half to three and apart from Xenoblade and Hyrule Warriors Legends, games look exactly the same on both. The PS4K will have two modes for every game, original, and upgraded.

 

Oh wait - you forgot SNES games! N3DS only also. And Xenoblade does not run at all on the old 3DS, while Hyrule Warriors has modified gameplay and runs comparatively poorly on the old system. Many games also show much reduced load times on N3DS and the OS of the system is much snappier. Again, a technical jump. Don't just use resolution as your judge.

 

Contrast this to the PS4K which will apparently not receive gameplay altered versions (again, according to these rumours). So the PS4K is a less divisive system on all accounts there. Every base PS4 owner can apparently still play all games...not the case with the N3DS.

 

Base PS4 will have been out probably at least 3 years by the time the PS4K comes out...3+ years vs 4. Don't see the reason for anywhere near the level of outrage you have given the favourable comparison to the N3DS, which seems to bother you not at all.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Sheikah

[Ronnie]

Could you just clarify this part of my post @Ronnie, because it's puzzling...

 

Wii to 360 and PS3 is very different, they're totally different consoles. It's just the idea that there'll be an upgraded console out there, that really didn't need to happen, that Playstation will have released out of the blue. I just think it's a bit duplicitous and a poor way to treat your customers. For me personally, I would have just waited a year and got the new model had I known this was going to happen, but more generally it'll be annoying playing games, knowing there's an upgraded version of it in there. It just doesn't feel right. It's also a really bizarre thing for Sony to do, especially when they've got everyone on board this gen and the PS4 is well in the lead.

 

It's not like the post was yesterday, there has been sufficent time since then and you get notified when quoted. Furthermore saying you haven't looked since suggests you do just pop into threads to annoy others but not willing to stick around to debate.

 

So you call me a liar, then tell me not only should I have acknowledged and admitted the typo, but also that I should have stuck around and posted more, even though there was nothing else to talk about at that time. No more footage, no new info. And you say I treat you like shit? I don't check my notifications, and the frequency I visit threads is up to me. I stick around and debate in lots of threads, I'd even posted a number of times in that topic before mentioning the delay.

 

No I explicitly stated that you are the only one to use that "exact phrase".

 

Ok? Great. I used those exact words, erm, cool. I was suggesting the sentiment had been repeated over and over, not the exact word-for-word phrasing.

 

I told you to stop saying this until you can prove it. You continue to ignore this.

 

I really don't have the time or motivation to scour the whole message board to prove something that I bring up (to deaf ears) every time, but sure, I won't mention it again until it happens again.

 

People said it about being hit by a blue shell (they weren't actually annoyed with Nintendo), an understocked accessory (reasonable to be annoyed) and an understocked limited promotion (again reasonable given that it was first come first served but as a customer you can't guarantee when you will get a delivery).

 

They also said it about Nintendo not supporting the circle pad pro, not having an F-Zero game in ages, having the e-Shop run slowly, GBA games on the Wii U not 3DS, the 2DS reveal, Gamecube controller shortages...

 

Now who's picking and choosing.

 

Don't see the reason for anywhere near the level of outrage you have given the favourable comparison to the N3DS, which seems to bother you not at all.

 

Because A Link Between Worlds runs exactly the same on both consoles. Majora's Mask runs exactly the same. Mario 3D Land runs exactly the same and the new Kirby game will run exactly the same. One exclusive game and a SNES*virtual console doesn't stand up to the next four (?) years of improved graphics and resolution in every single game on the PS4K.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Ronnie
Automerged Doublepost

[Nolan]

What a goddamn clusterfuck in here.

 

Ronnie, take a breath and think for a second, you're yet again beating the same horse and I'm sure it's fun. But running around shouting about hypocrisy and Nintendo Bashing Sony Loving you're akin to the madman on the street spouting off about armageddon. You could be 100% right in your rants but there comes a point you're going to fall on deaf ears.

 

You're making a lot of assumptions. You're making ones that are probably correct, I fully expect the situation to be similar to the New 3DS. Some exclusive games and others that run better. Actually....I think it'll be even more similar to the N64 RAM expansion pack. Just it isn't a nice easy swapping of relatively inexpensive hardware. But it's hardly Sony treating people like shit. They obviously see a market for this. The gaming market in general has trended this direction, look at micro transactions, people are willing to spend money in inane ways. People will buy the console, but developers are ALWAYS going to support the install base, exclusively developing for the newer one at this point in time is a sure fire way to kill a game. Maybe in 3-4 years it would have a better chance.

[Retro_Link]

Oh good god yes, it's far less offensive than a micro transaction full game.

 

Also, I know it's not quite the same, but Amiibo.

 

Fun modes in a game locked away for those who spend the extra money. Now you could argue you can pick and choose which games you buy Amiibo for, but over time and the course of the Wii U/NX's life cycle...

 

Arguably this locked content is worse than the opportunity to have improved textures, lighting, frame rate... Not that we even know what the differences will be yet. Also it's providing you with the opportunity to can play 4K movies right? and get the most out of your TV. It would be equally frustrating having a 4K TV and knowing the games you buy could look better if only someone supported the option!

[Goron_3]

Because A Link Between Worlds runs exactly the same on both consoles. Majora's Mask runs exactly the same. Mario 3D Land runs exactly the same and the new Kirby game will run exactly the same. One exclusive game and a SNES*virtual console doesn't stand up to the next four (?) years of improved graphics and resolution in every single game on the PS4K.

 

I just want to jump in here and say that playing ALBW and Majora's Mask on a new 3DS is MUCH better experience than the old 3DS because the 3D effect is WAY better.

[Eddage]

The PS4K is a "fantastic way to treat their customers"? Do you honestly believe that? It's a fantastic way to treat customers who don't have a PS4, for sure. Everyone else, not so much.

 

 

Well we won't really know the answer until it's been released and we see sales figures.

 

Let me ask you this...

 

If you were the type of person you wanted and could afford to keep up with technology so had a 4K TV and wanted to be able to watch Ultra HD Blu Rays and play video games that take advantage of the higher resolution would you not want to buy this new model?

 

If so then the NEO is a great product for you.

 

If you don't care about constantly keeping up to date and already had a PS4 and a 1080p TV then you still get to play all the same PS4 games. They might not look the absolute best that they can do but it wouldn't matter anyway since you don't have a 4K TV.

 

The existence of the NEO will not make base model PS4 look bad, they will probably continue to look better than they do now as the generation continues (as is usually the case with all consoles), there will just happen to be a version that looks a little better and runs a little smoother, but it will be EXACTLY THE SAME GAME.

 

Personally I'm more annoyed that after only four years I'm going to have to buy a new Nintendo console if I want to keep playing Nintendo games. A four year generation seems more like a middle finger to the consumer than an optional upgrade which won't affect those who don't want to embrace it.

[Mr-Paul]

I just want to jump in here and say that playing ALBW and Majora's Mask on a new 3DS is MUCH better experience than the old 3DS because the 3D effect is WAY better.

 

Which is effectively the same thing as the PS4K is offering - a visual upgrade!

 

Ronnie, you're not in the minority in being sceptical about the PS4K, but no-one else is having such an extreme reaction.

 

And with the Nintendo/Sony double standards, I think maybe you just need to accept you are in the minority with your desire for folders, etc. People aren't disagreeing with you to purely defend Sony, they just disagree with you.

 

I think you're equating "more negativity allowed" around Nintendo than Sony with the fact more people are feeling disappointed with Nintendo at the moment, so of course there will be more posts with negative sentiments. You're allowed to be negative wherever you like, just be sensible about it! Everyone on here who is disappointed with the Wii U is a Nintendo fan - they aren't just here to troll and be negative about the Wii U for the sake of it! So what if people think there are too many 2D platformers? Let them think that and you can think what you want and everyone can live happily ever after!

 

Of course you are allowed to express your dislike for this whole thing, but does it really need repeating over and over again, with such hyperbole? There's no need to be so angry!

[dwarf]

I'm pissed off with Sony because I bought my PS4 in the belief that it would run games in 4K. There was no 4K feature advertised on the box, and there was no 'free model upgrade to PS4K' guarantee on it either, but I'm still really fucked off with them that I only got what I paid for, and not what I wanted in my dreams.

 

Fuck Sony.

[Daft]

I don't get it, people upgrade their phone every two years. With consoles it'll arguably more important to update the tech (especially with PCs guaranteed to be the cutting-edge).

 

I say release an updated console every few years.

[Kav]

@Ronnie, if you look back through all the posts, this argument didn't become an issue until you mentioned there being double-standards.

Yes, people queried your anger but there was no problem there at that point. The arguments and back and forth came about as you talked about double-standards.

 

Perhaps you could argue that it was when Retro Link said your post was juvenile and that incited your response, but the thing is; your post was juvenile, so there was merit in what he said.

 

 

Now onto the double-standard thing... I imagine some of it has stemmed from our arguments going back and forth about my disdain towards Nintendo about voice-chat, as I've posted swear-filled rants... but the thing is, I can accept that my posts were juvenile. So what, it made me angry and upset and I felt like venting, even if it was in a juvenile manner!

All that people have done here by questioning you is the exact same thing Serebii and you did with me and my posts. It's no different.

 

The thing that I've said back in the past, which applies to this too is, so what if I vent and swear at Nintendo, just ignore it, let me be angry and get over it. Why jump to the defence of the company? I'm angry, I've every right to be, it's not stopping anyone else think their own thing about the issue.

 

 

So in that case, everyone should let you be angry, but at the same time, there's absolutely no anti-Nintendo agenda and no double-standards... I'm afraid you are wrong in saying that.

[Ashley]

So you call me a liar, then tell me not only should I have acknowledged and admitted the typo, but also that I should have stuck around and posted more, even though there was nothing else to talk about at that time. No more footage, no new info. And you say I treat you like shit? I don't check my notifications, and the frequency I visit threads is up to me. I stick around and debate in lots of threads, I'd even posted a number of times in that topic before mentioning the delay..

 

I did say you come across as one because of your actions. I'm just trying to explain why people might think you have an agenda.

 

I really don't have the time or motivation to scour the whole message board to prove something that I bring up (to deaf ears) every time, but sure, I won't mention it again until it happens again.

 

And you think this is how I want to spend my time? I'm trying to help and you're refusing to engage. If you don't have the time to try and prove your point in a substantial way (see below) then don't go spreading false accusations. It's simple. Yet I've had to tell you three times now.

 

They also said it about Nintendo not supporting the circle pad pro, not having an F-Zero game in ages, having the e-Shop run slowly, GBA games on the Wii U not 3DS, the 2DS reveal, Gamecube controller shortages...

 

Now who's picking and choosing.

 

I chose the two expressions you picked in your previous response, but if you want to look at all of them...

 

You seem to be taking any instances where someone swears at/about Nintendo as a sign of bias against Nintendo which does not logically match up. People get annoyed, doesn't mean they hate Nintendo. The 2DS one was DCubed and I don't think anyone is going to say he hates Nintendo, he just have SFZ a 9! Do you want us to ban anyone that dare speaks a bad word about Nintendo? Should we do the same about others? Daft swore at Sony for PSN downtime, should he be banned?

 

I'm trying to find examples of substantive unjustified hatred towards Nintendo and also dismissal of Sony criticism. I cannot. You seemingly cannot (again, just saying "fuck Nintendo" because they got hit by a blue shell, stock shortages or disliking a new product does not count and that is all stuff I found anyway) either but you insist on crying wolf. You are happy to moan but you're not contributing. You are refusing to contribute and that is the problem.

 

Hate Sony for this, fine. It's nice to share ideas. Serebii and I will often have differing ideas but we generally chat about them and may not reconcile our ideas but we're able to discuss them and that's how it should be. As I've said before, you just seem to be against any criticism of Nintendo and try to 'balance' it by criticising others and then crying foul play.

 

You have continued to complain about unfair treatment without backing up your statements and at a public level it reflects badly on you.

[Happenstance]

Any chance we could actually bring this back on topic? Its funny seeing Ashley own Ronnie over and over again sure but maybe give that its own thread :p . I have Ronnie on ignore but its not exactly working at the moment with the constant posting and quoting lol

[Kav]

I guess my main concern now is online multiplayer. If the Neo versions of games run at better frame-rates online then those players will have an advantage over Base players.

If this is the case then I'll not be happy at all!

[Retro_Link]

I guess my main concern now is online multiplayer. If the Neo versions of games run at better frame-rates online then those players will have an advantage over Base players.

If this is the case then I'll not be happy at all!

How does it work on PC?

Is it a complaint in the PC community? can't say I've ever heard of it being.

[Kav]

How does it work on PC?

Is it a complaint in the PC community? can't say I've ever heard of it being.

 

I'd imagine if you wanted to up the frame rate on your PC you'd upgrade it... and I'd imagine it would not be at the cost of a new console... but I'm not 100% certain.

 

I console game for that even playing field, that's my issue and I feel it's s very relevant point to make. Bringing up PC gaming in defence of it is moot as this is not PC gaming, it's console gaming.

 

 

If, for arguments sake, Battlefield 5 came out for both Neo and Base consoles and online the Base version ran at 30fps but the Neo version ran at 60fps, I'd be very angry!

It's at this point that I'd agree with Ronnie and say a big "fuck you" to Sony, as I feel that's a big piss-take!

If your console wasn't ready for what you wanted games to run at, you shouldn't have released it.

 

...but that's only an "if", haha.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Kav

[Ashley]

In fairness I think RL was just questioning if it does get discussed in regards to PC gaming out of curiosity, rather than "it's fine on PC so what's the issue!?"

 

Eurogamer do say this but it appears to be speculative:

 

If a PlayStation title supports online features, they must be deployed equally on both systems. Developers cannot have Neo-only servers. We believe this may actually introduce gameplay balance issues if, say, the Neo version hits 60fps while the PS4 version is capped at 30fps.

[Shorty]

A steady framerate is really all that matters in multiplayer. Ping is going to have much more of an effect than FPS.

 

At that point you could start to argue that people who pay for expensive surround sound have advantages.... Any difference is so minor it's going to be eclipsed by the difference in skill level very quickly.

[Kav]

A steady framerate is really all that matters in multiplayer. Ping is going to have much more of an effect than FPS.

 

At that point you could start to argue that people who pay for expensive surround sound have advantages.... Any difference is so minor it's going to be eclipsed by the difference in skill level very quickly.

 

That's correct but these are things outside of the system itself. I pay more for Internet so I have a good ping, I pay for a headset and use it so I can sound-whore and it give me the advantage... all these separate to the actual system itself though so that's another moot point.

 

If they released Neo and Base at the same time I'd have bought the Neo for that advantage too... but I've already bought the PS4, so I would feel a bit mugged off unless they offered a trade-in deal.

 

I felt a bit mugged off with the New 3DS but I bought that because I loved the Majora's Mask design and wanted the better features.

 

 

@Ashley, I hadn't realised that's what RL was getting at. I know it's all speculative too, hence the big "if"... and it this point it is just a concern as I say.

[Retro_Link]

I'd imagine if you wanted to up the frame rate on your PC you'd upgrade it... and I'd imagine it would not be at the cost of a new console... but I'm not 100% certain.

 

I console game for that even playing field, that's my issue and I feel it's s very relevant point to make. Bringing up PC gaming in defence of it is moot as this is not PC gaming, it's console gaming.

 

 

If, for arguments sake, Battlefield 5 came out for both Neo and Base consoles and online the Base version ran at 30fps but the Neo version ran at 60fps, I'd be very angry!

It's at this point that I'd agree with Ronnie and say a big "fuck you" to Sony, as I feel that's a big piss-take!

If your console wasn't ready for what you wanted games to run at, you shouldn't have released it.

 

...but that's only an "if", haha.

Yeah as Ashley said, I was only posing the question. I have no idea about it.

 

I think saying 'well you shouldn't have released your console' or 'you should have waited 2 years and released the PS5' is just such an unrealistic thought process.

 

This is the 21st century, we're all well aware, or at least should be, of how quickly things are moving. I mean my god, I'm 31 now, I try and keep up with things as best I can, and I always thought I'd be someone who'd be able to pretty much stay on the cusp of things, but it's just crazy. I can't. There are plenty of things that I don't know how they work properly, so many features within devices that I've never used or tried...

 

Telling Sony - one of the worlds leading electronics manufacturers, in one of the worlds most competitive and continually evolving industries - to not release one of their products, or delay releasing one of their products to make a percentage of the market happy just isn't realistic, it's crazy talk.

 

Sony need to release products when it makes business sense to. They have competitors, be they Microsoft, Panasonic, Oculus, Apple... They're not going to let Microsoft (also rumours of an Xbox 1.5) get a 2 year head start. They're not going to let Panasonic get the run on 4K TV's. If they wake up and see that today a window has opened up to combine their console, TV and VR strategies, they need to act on it like it was yesterday.

[Happenstance]

Yeah we were talking about this earlier in the thread. Personally I rarely notice fps differences so it wouldn't bother me but one thing I could see happening if Sony agree its an actual issue is making "parity between multiplayer framerates" one of their strict guidelines for the Base and Neo versions. Im not entirely convinced the difference is enough that it is an issue however.

[Kav]

Yeah as Ashley said, I was only posing the question. I have no idea about it.

 

I think saying 'well you shouldn't have released your console' or 'you should have waited 2 years and released the PS5' is just such an unrealistic thought process.

 

This is the 21st century, we're all well aware, or at least should be, of how quickly things are moving. I mean my god, I'm 31 now, I try and keep up with things as best I can, and I always thought I'd be someone who'd be able to pretty much stay on the cusp of things, but it's just crazy. I can't. There are plenty of things that I don't know how they work properly, so many features within devices that I've never used or tried...

 

Telling Sony - one of the worlds leading electronics manufacturers, in one of the worlds most competitive and continually evolving industries - to not release one of their products, or delay releasing one of their products to make a percentage of the market happy just isn't realistic, it's crazy talk.

 

Sony need to release products when it makes business sense to. They have competitors, be they Microsoft, Panasonic, Oculus, Apple... They're not going to let Microsoft (also rumours of an Xbox 1.5) get a 2 year head start. They're not going to let Panasonic get the run on 4K TV's. If they wake up and see that today a window has opened up to combine their console, TV and VR strategies, they need to act on it like it was yesterday.

 

Yeah, sorry, I hadn't realised that's how you were asking.

 

I know it's unrealistic of me and that they're going to do what's in their best business interest, but it's decisions like that which forces me away as a consumer... if console gaming is becoming more in-line with the PC model then I'll not buy into the console.

 

They'll do what's in their interest and I'll do what's in mine. If I feel that it would be ruining my hobby then I'll stop... and I'll be sad that I'm stopping and so I'll make silly statements because I'm upset how things changed.

 

Still, this is all conjecture and it may not effect me as I've said. It's just a concern.

[Nolan]

Framerate is relatively important to multiplayer. But it takes a second to details and skill. Unless of course the framerate absolutely tanks in which case the better one will win. Imagine 20fps vs 60fps. It's similar to high ping.

 

On PC it isn't uncommon to play with low settings to have a perfect fps for multiplayer.

[Retro_Link]

Yeah, sorry, I hadn't realised that's how you were asking.

 

I know it's unrealistic of me and that they're going to do what's in their best business interest, but it's decisions like that which forces me away as a consumer... if console gaming is becoming more in-line with the PC model then I'll not buy into the console.

 

They'll do what's in their interest and I'll do what's in mine. If I feel that it would be ruining my hobby then I'll stop... and I'll be sad that I'm stopping and so I'll make silly statements because I'm upset how things changed.

 

Still, this is all conjecture and it may not effect me as I've said. It's just a concern.

No worries.

 

Yeah fully understandable man.

 

I think we had some indication this might be the way the console industry was headed, but it's a difficult move for all consumers. There was a lot of talk about the PS4/XB1 architecture being very similar to PC architecture for ease of development when both consoles had their reveal events.

We've had the continual move towards digital, digital updates, patches, and talk of maybe consoles in the future being just a box that would just be continually updated, removing the need for console cycles and hardware releases.

 

I guess it's possibly just beginning to arrive a lot earlier than we all thought.

 

Again though, we don't even know for sure what the PS4K is.

As boring as it is to keep saying that. This could be very insignificant and the above sentences I've written a complete overestimation.

 

For me, I was happy playing Wii games, happy going back and playing older games... I don't think I'll mind missing out on what the PS4K rumours suggest. But then I'm not a competitive online gamer either.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Retro_Link

[Sheikah]

Yeah we were talking about this earlier in the thread. Personally I rarely notice fps differences so it wouldn't bother me but one thing I could see happening if Sony agree its an actual issue is making "parity between multiplayer framerates" one of their strict guidelines for the Base and Neo versions. Im not entirely convinced the difference is enough that it is an issue however.

 

If 4K is the goal (hence PS4K) then I honestly don't see how they can push towards 4K levels and FPS at the same time. The horsepower to pull off 4K 60 FPS would be tremendous - leaves me thinking resolution will more likely take precedent.