Fused King Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) Let's get back to perfect balance between Survival Horror and Action in my opinion. Don't feel shy to discuss, in depth, certain characters Edited February 20, 2014 by Fused King
Goron_3 Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 I will give a full response later but for now all I will say is this: This is the greatest action game of all time. OF ALL TIME. Fuck me sideways, I'm off to play it now.
Wii Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Utterly brilliant in every regard. It's one of the greatest games of all time. I think I'd possibly place it second only to Super Metroid.
Hero-of-Time Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Mine will no doubt be a controversial opinion. While it's a good action game it is not a good Resident Evil game. For me this is when the series fell from grace. I'm heavily invested in the Resident Evil story and this one was REALLY lacking. There was also no short supply of ammo, no back tracking, no Umbrella. The Umbrella thing still annoys the hell out of me to this day. If you had played the series from the start then you had built up this hatred for the Umbrella corporation and you wanted to get revenge and bring them to justice. Who can forget the ending of Code Veronica? If you did then here it is. Skip to 1:10. Hell yeah! How does Umbrella get taken down? They went bankrupt.....YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME!? So from the start the game had already lost me. There was a new kind of tension created in this game. As I mentioned earlier, the lack of ammo wasn't really an issue now and you were never really looking around the corners to see what was ahead. This was replaced with the sheer number of enemies attacking you, as well as better AI in the enemies. I actually prefer Resident Evil 5 more than I do 4 purely because it has more of a connection with the rest of the series. I can see why Capcom went the way they did with it but to me this should be switched with Code Veronica, with that being Resident Evil 4 and this one being the spin off title. It's still a great game but not a great Resident Evil game.
DuD Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Hunk with an automatic on mercenaries.. popping a single shot into the next zombies head, running up and snapping their neck.. rinse and repeat... YESSSS!! In fact, any character on mercenaries. I loved this game, playing the main game numerous times and unlocking everything on offer. The only reason I stopped playing as because I lent it a mate, who must still actually have it!
Clownferret Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 without doubt one of the greatest games I've ever played. The single player was massive. About 4 times I thought that's the end, then you open up a whole new area. And when you finally finished it, the mercenaries were a brilliant way of keeping you coming back again and again.
Phube Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 My first proper Resident Evil and still one the best games I have played (So good, I bought it twice, even better on Wii IMO!). This still makes me laugh too:
Londragon Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Bought it twice. The first time after reading the positive reviews for the GC version, and the only place it was available (everywhere sold out) was HMV for 60 quid! This was going to be my last game before emigrating, and I didn't have much time left. Got it and even with the hefty price tag it was well worth the money. This is in my top 3 games of all time. That opening scene in the village and being attacked relentlessly was freaking awesome. Later bought it again on the Wii, and they only went and made the whole game even better with the pointer aim controls. If they remade this as an HD release on the Wii U, I'd buy it yet again.
nekunando Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Resident Evil 4 on GC was already outstanding, but the Wii Edition is beyond AWESOME My experience with the series was quite limited by the time this game came out, having only played the visually gorgeous remake of the original Resident Evil and the, for me at least, frustrating Resident Evil Zero on Gamecube. Since then, I've briefly played Resident Evil 2 on N64, Resident Evil 5 on XBOX 360 and made decent progress in Code Veronica on the Dreamcast. I have Resident Evil 6 on PS3, thanks to my brother, though I haven't played it yet , and have been trying to work my way through Revelations on 3DS over the last few months.. and that's the problem I've found over the years that although I may enjoy certain aspects of the games, I'm not sure exactly how much I actually enjoy the Resident Evil games when I play them Resident Evil 4 has been the one solitary exception to that as I found it to be an absolutely amazing and intense experience from start to finish and probably one of the best games of all time. It was an exciting new direction for the series but subsequent games seem to have taken it down a path that I'm just not interested in I have to ask myself, though, if the path leading up to Resident Evil 4 was one I was particulalry interested in either..
S.C.G Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 'What're-ya buyin?' This game, multiple times over as it happens. Resident Evil 4 was not only the game that helped to partly shoo away that stereotype that there were no 'Mature' games available for the Gamecube, it was also the title that changed what the term 'Survival Horror' meant in addition to shaking up the gameplay of the Resident Evil series which had very much become familiar by that point. Pacing is perfect throughout as right from the start you're once again thrown into the role of Leon S Kennedy who's been sent to a village in rural Spain to investigate the kidnapping of Ashley Graham who is the President's daughter; he's not there very long before he gets attacked by one of the locals, the police car -along with the two 'idiot' cops - ends up falling over a cliff, - seriously what is it with Leon and vehicles? - and he finds himself alone in this village of crazed lunatics or rather 'you' do as the player... but it's not until you actually reach the most populated part, fought off hordes of them and then finally heard that clock tower bell ring that the title screen comes up, for it's then that the game really begins. Everything from the 'over the shoulder' camera perspective still used in all modern Resi titles to date, to the amazingly well crafted environments which were certainly 'large' in scale but retained those atmospheric touches which mattered; it's all here in spades used to maximum effectiveness as there are some genuinely creepy moments in this title which really make it stand out even within the series. It's a shame then that each game which came after it simply failed to completely recapture that same magic... Resident Evil 5 might have been considered more 'canonical' due to its story/characters etc plus it tried a new location once again which worked but not in the same way, for me RE4's story was refreshing plus the fact that you're actually 'alone' count for a lot because RE5's co-op actually takes away just as much as it adds. Resident Evil 6 tried to present events in a new way giving you the choice of playing the game from three different character perspectives which certainly added something but again, they tried to go 'even bigger' with everything which will only get you so far; RE4 had its grand moments where you would be fighting it out within an ancient castle but it never tried to do too much such as having you pilot vehicles in largely redundant sections of game. Resident Evil Revelations at least tried to restore some sense of balance to the series, while it only half succeeded it certainly got many things right as the exploration was indeed excellent overall even if it blundered every now and then plus those disguised load times hampered the experience slightly; something clearly had to give seeing as Capcom had designed the areas in the game to be played once through in single player mode but then again co-operatively as 'standalone' sections for the brilliant Raid Mode which I think should become a future series staple just so long as it's implemented more 'tactfully' into the game next time. But when it comes to Resident Evil 4 it really cannot do any wrong in my eyes for it is both a brilliant Resi title, a spectacular example of survival horror and just a superbly crafted piece of entertainment which has played its part in 'saving' not one but two Nintendo consoles... as it's undeniable that 'Wii Edition' improves the game even further; perhaps Capcom might consider releasing it again one last time in HD but with the option of having those fine pointer controls while things are a little quiet both for the Wii U and the Resident Evil series in general. Capcom have built what I would call their 'Ultimate Weapon' in the form of Resident Evil 4 so it would be a shame if they didn't at least use it just one last time. 'Stranger, Stranger! Now THAT'S a weapon!
Dcubed Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Ahh RE4. Nothing else needs to be said about its qualities as a game; we all know the song and dance here (amazing gunplay, fantastic level design etc), but I think something needs to be said about its qualities as a "Resident Evil" game. I think that this game gets an unfair bad rap for "abandoning" the survival horror qualities of the series and that unjust blame is out on it for the series' current direction. The truth is that while it did abandon series staples like fixed camera angles, jump scares (except Oven Man of course ), ammo/ink ribbon conservation and the Metroid-like path finding structure; it didn't abandon everything! It's not that it moved away from horror completely, but rather that it traded away the more psychological aspects of horror in exchange for tension; the feeling of overwhelming odds stacked against you (perhaps best demonstrated in the cabin sequence with Luis). It was a different kind of survival horror, but still definately horror. Other series staples like puzzle solving and exploration were dialed back, but were also still present in a different way. The game wasn't completely linear, not like RE5 and 6! It was not RE4 that "destroyed" the series, it was RE5! That game tried to copy RE4 as closely as possible, to the point of desperation, but totally missed the point. It failed to recapture what was good about RE4 and abandoned the series staples that it did preserve in the process (and of course RE6 threw everything away and just have up completely in favour of blindly chasing wider industry trends). Whatever you think of the series' current trend, you can't place the blame on RE4. It was the revolution that the series desperately needed to survive and anything that followed afterwards is not the fault of this game nor its original creators (most of which would go on to leave shortly after the PS2 version was announced). And besides, it's a cracking game and easily the best of its kind. One of the best games ever made, no matter what side of the fence you stand on!
Hero-of-Time Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) I think that this game gets an unfair bad rap for "abandoning" the survival horror qualities of the series and that unjust blame is out on it for the series' current direction. The truth is that while it did abandon series staples like fixed camera angles, jump scares (except Oven Man of course ), ammo/ink ribbon conservation and the Metroid-like path finding structure; it didn't abandon everything! It's not that it moved away from horror completely, but rather that it traded away the more psychological aspects of horror in exchange for tension; the feeling of overwhelming odds stacked against you (perhaps best demonstrated in the cabin sequence with Luis). It was a different kind of survival horror, but still definately horror. Other series staples like puzzle solving and exploration were dialed back, but were also still present in a different way. The game wasn't completely linear, not like RE5 and 6! It was not RE4 that "destroyed" the series, it was RE5! That game tried to copy RE4 as closely as possible, to the point of desperation, but totally missed the point. It failed to recapture what was good about RE4 and abandoned the series staples that it did preserve in the process (and of course RE6 threw everything away and just have up completely in favour of blindly chasing wider industry trends). Whatever you think of the series' current trend, you can't place the blame on RE4. It was the revolution that the series desperately needed to survive and anything that followed afterwards is not the fault of this game nor its original creators (most of which would go on to leave shortly after the PS2 version was announced). Sorry, but I disagree. Resident Evil 4 started off the more action focused Resi games, which has now become the standard. It doesn't matter how good or bad you think the sequels are, the fact is they remained action focused because of the 4th game. Had it flopped I imagine they would have went back to the way it used to be. Yeah, the quality of 5 and 6 wasn't up to scratch ( I actually have no beef with 5 ) but the turning point of the series was 4. Of course we could argue all day about this as it all comes down to what you want out of a Resident Evil game. I mainly wanted a continuation of the storyline I had been following for years, Resident Evil 4 didn't deliver for me on this front. Edited February 18, 2014 by Hero-of-Time
Dcubed Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Sorry, but I disagree. Resident Evil 4 started off the more action focused Resi games, which has now become the standard. It doesn't matter how good or bad you think the sequels are, the fact is they remained action focused because of the 4th game. Had it flopped I imagine they would have went back to the way it used to be. Yeah, the quality of 5 and 6 wasn't up to scratch ( I actually have no beef with 5 ) but the turning point of the series was 4. Of course we could argue all day about this as it all comes down to what you want out of a Resident Evil game. I mainly wanted a continuation of the storyline I had been following for years, Resident Evil 4 didn't deliver for me on this front. They didn't have to throw away the series staples that RE4 left intact, they could've chosen to dial back the action and bring some of the older elements into focus (much like Revelations did). RE4 might have been the turning point that Mikami wanted it to be, but it's not his or RE4's fault that the remaining staff at Capcom (and most importantly, the execs in charge) decided to gut the series of what horror it did have in favour of turning the series into a bad Gears of War clone (oh the irony!)
Hero-of-Time Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 They didn't have to throw away the series staples that RE4 left intact, they could've chosen to dial back the action and bring some of the older elements into focus (much like Revelations did). RE4 might have been the turning point that Mikami wanted it to be, but it's not his or RE4's fault that the remaining staff at Capcom (and most importantly, the execs in charge) decided to gut the series of what horror it did have in favour of turning the series into a bad Gears of War clone (oh the irony!) It had very little horror left in 4 as it was, with it being replaced with more tension set pieces. As I've said, I mainly wanted the story continued, which is why I enjoy Resident Evil 5 more than 4 at times. I think its a case of agreeing to disagree on this one.
Guy Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 This game was quite cool, Leon was a real badass, Fuck Ashley so bad!
nekunando Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 On the issue of Resident Evil 4 moving the series towards 'action' instead of 'survival horror', I actually found it to be much more frightening than the previous entries I had played due to the horror of trying to survive los ganados
Wii Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Who knows had they not scrapped the original version, this game could have turned out very different.
Sheikah Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Resi 4 and 5 were excellent games (the former more so). Resi 6 actually fucked things up by taking the combat system from 4 and combining it with old elements of Resi (dim-witted zombies, multiple characters and a convoluted coming together of a story, and a rather dull city setting). I particularly liked Resi 4 because it was isolated from much of the bullshit of Resi that had gone before; namely most of the cast/thinly woven 'plot' surrounding Umbrella, as well as the clunky game mechanics. About the only thing I missed from old Resi was Nemesis, to be honest. It's funny, when a series takes a departure from the usual fare of doing whatever you're normally supposed to be doing it can produce great results. Having a Zelda game, for instance, where you don't even have Zelda involved other than a single flashback, all the while saying 'fuck you' to obtaining the Master Sword and generally having a swell old time in a psychedelic trip of a game left a lasting impression on me. Mix it up, yo.
Jonnas Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) This is an interesting one. I never was a fan of Resident Evil, and I didn't care much for this when it was first released on the Gamecube (though I did hear a lot of raving over it). A while later, I got myself a peek when a friend of mine got it for the PS2, and I admitted it looked more fun than usual shooting/action games. A few years later, I got the Wii Edition for cheap. So, considering I didn't get it at launch, and I mostly played the improved Wii version: It's a pretty damn fun game, and really well done. So it isn't quite a survival horror game, since you can arm yourself to the teeth and shoot enemies rather liberally, and the game never really encourages you to do otherwise (aside from a few segments). We should judge it for what it is: an action game. It's much like an action film*, too. So, the game controls really well. Aiming the gun is quick, as is whipping up your knife (one weird thing is that you can't walk with your knife out, or while aiming the gun. It's minor, and it's easy to get used to, but still weird). Over-the-shoulder camera works better than first-person perspective, since it the latter option doesn't allow for periphery vision. And that case where you decide how to fit your items? Great stuff. Wii controls work like a charm, and it's a damn shame that so many companies refused to give Wiimotes the chance that Capcom gave them. One aspect that should be highlighted: Quick-Time Events. This was the game that popularized them*. Now, the ones that pop up the most are the prompts to attack/finished a stunned Ganado, and those work well, since they are quick, optional, useful and only require one button press. The ones that pop up during cutscenes (Krauser scene) or during set pieces (Rolling boulders) were pretty novel at the time, their goal being to get the player more involved in the action on screen. It worked, as cutscenes were no longer motive for relaxation. The perspective, the good use of QTEs, the clever set pieces, the constant threat of danger... It all contributed to an engaging, captivating atmosphere. You do feel like you're the one in Leon's shoes. Resi 4 may not be a survival-horror, but it can easily be classified as an action/horror game without much trouble. The plot is ridiculous. Seriously. Government sends a lone dude with one gun and low ammo into rural Spain after an international terrorist organization to rescue the president's daughter. Creepy dudes turn the village into zombies/monsters with Tourette's Syndrome (yes, that Spanish you keep hearing is mostly swearing, random and incoherent. I know that sounds like your typical real-life Spaniard, but come on) and their leader mocks the "American Hero" while having an English name himself. It's a B-Movie plot*. Another thing of note: Mercenaries Mode. Fantastic stuff. So fun, it's a shame you can't use Krauser or Wesker in more situations than just these 4 maps. I'm glad they made it into a full game, but... I want Wii controls *All of these point towards a very important aspect of Resident Evil 4: its legacy. So many action games took inspiration from Resi 4... and as is usual in these cases, most did so in a very superficial manner. More and more games are designed to be interactive Hollywood films, so they use QTEs as an excuse to call a string of a cutscenes a "game". Finishing enemies with a cutscene and a dozen QTE prompts? That also has roots in Resi 4 (though also God of War). And plots have been getting more and more Hollywood-esque, and playing it straight, even though Resi 4 was practically a parody of the typical American action movie. Essentially, Resi 4 started a quite a few trends I don't like. QTEs have been abused to hell and back without understanding their original purposes: giving you more attack variety, letting you stay in Leon's shoes while a cutscene is happening, allowing for tense set pieces that wouldn't exist otherwise (remember Salazar's "right hand"?)... Resident Evil 4 is a very well designed, thought-out game, while newer games miss the point. Anyway, I hope that little rant wasn't pointless, I'm just summing up why Resident Evil 4 deserves a 9.5/10 Edited February 19, 2014 by Jonnas
Oxigen_Waste Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 There are 2 type of Resident Evil games, and they're mutually exclusive and as such... not open to comparison! There's pre-RE4 and post-RE4, and if RE2 is the epitome of what an old school survival horror game done right should be, then RE4 is exactly the same thing regarding action games in general. A masterpiece of level design and gameplay. The plot is utterly ludicrous and dumb (as with all RE games) in a new way and that's how we like it. It's not really a horror game anymore, it's B-movie horror (as in dumb, funny horror, not scary horror), so I wouldn't say judging it based on that is fair at all. Too bad the RE ip went to shit after this... I guess at least we got Dead Space (1). A true 10/10, in my book. Also, change that image, this is the true face of RE4: The US cover sucks ass, change that shit!
Retro_Link Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 (edited) @Jonnas Just to point out, it was Shenmue 1 and 2 that popularised QTE's and showed the industry the many different ways in which they could be implemented during gameplay. They were released in 1999/2001 Resi 4 and God of War 1 both came out in 2005, two months apart. Edited February 19, 2014 by Retro_Link
Oxigen_Waste Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 @Jonnas Just to point out, it as Shenmue 1 and 2 that popularised QTE's and showed the industry the many different ways in which they could be implemented during gameplay. They were released in 1999/2001 Resi 4 and God of War 1 both came out in 2005, two months apart. You have no idea what you just did to me. I'm slightly high... and your mention of Shenmue just now has awaken a hunger in me! I already had the VGA cable hooked up and ready to play my Dreamcast as god intended (seriously, it's almost HD... on your actual, umodded Dreamcast)... but with the recent release of the undub (so you can play Shenmue 1 without the annoying english voice acting), it's the perfect moment to finally revisit Shenmue! Let's face it... HD Shenmue is not coming, we can give up on that, but this is almost as good! I'm doing it! Yeah! Shenmue, bitches!!
Jonnas Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 Just to point out, it was Shenmue 1 and 2 that popularised QTE's and showed the industry the many different ways in which they could be implemented during gameplay. They were released in 1999/2001 Shenmue might've been the one that introduced the concept, but I don't think it was the one that popularized it. How many games between 2001 and 2005 used QTEs in abundance? Resi 4 and God of War 1 both came out in 2005, two months apart. Yes, I'm aware. I was just saying that God of War also played a hand in it (I wasn't comparing the two or anything).
Zell Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 What can I say that hasn't already been said? Resident Evil 4 is a masterpiece, one of the all time greats. Modern action games owe an awful lot to RE4. Without it we wouldn't have had Gears of War or Arkham Asylum or Dead Space or Tomb Raider.. even games like The Last of Us borrow heavily from RE4's mechanics. It was truly a game-changer. Mine will no doubt be a controversial opinion. While it's a good action game it is not a good Resident Evil game. For me this is when the series fell from grace. I'm heavily invested in the Resident Evil story and this one was REALLY lacking. There was also no short supply of ammo, no back tracking, no Umbrella. The Umbrella thing still annoys the hell out of me to this day. If you had played the series from the start then you had built up this hatred for the Umbrella corporation and you wanted to get revenge and bring them to justice. Who can forget the ending of Code Veronica? If you did then here it is. Skip to 1:10. Hell yeah! How does Umbrella get taken down? They went bankrupt.....YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME!? So from the start the game had already lost me. There was a new kind of tension created in this game. As I mentioned earlier, the lack of ammo wasn't really an issue now and you were never really looking around the corners to see what was ahead. This was replaced with the sheer number of enemies attacking you, as well as better AI in the enemies. I actually prefer Resident Evil 5 more than I do 4 purely because it has more of a connection with the rest of the series. I can see why Capcom went the way they did with it but to me this should be switched with Code Veronica, with that being Resident Evil 4 and this one being the spin off title. It's still a great game but not a great Resident Evil game. I think you're not actually fairly criticising the game, rather you're criticising the game for not being something you think it should be. Forget about taxonomy for a second, because it doesn't matter if RE4 is a bad Resident Evil game or a bad survival horror game, what matters is that Resident Evil 4 is a great game in its own right. Resident Evil 1, 2 & 3 are like early Beach Boys material, but Resident Evil 4 is Pet Sounds.
Goron_3 Posted February 19, 2014 Posted February 19, 2014 The best thing about the game is that it just keeps on giving..the castle was huge but once you leave there's the entire Island section which is filled with set pieces and boss battles..Few games give that much without getting tiresome or repetitve..RE4 nailed it. I also loved how the weapons felt; they felt powerful and the shotguns especially were especially well designed. Despite everything you were up against, it felt as though you really had a chance, because the weapons you had could blow the heads off of anyone if you got it right. Love it, love it, love it.
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