Should Sony drop out of handheld market and go 3rd party?

[Rummy]

PS4/Vita can connect for off tv play like the Wii U in two ways. First the PS4 turns into a wifi hub so you connect directly and it has a limited range. Second it connects to the wifi via your router so as long as you have a strong enough connection at both ends you could play them anywhere. In the adverts Sony made they showed it as a girl playing her PS4, leaving for college then carrying on with her game at college on her lunch break on the Vita.

 

As for cross play games, some will allow you to just buy it once then buy it for both systems. Games like Spelunky allow this but then will let you connect the PS3 to the Vita and play local multiplayer with both gamers having their own screen. I think Need for Speed on PS4 also allows this with the off screen play as well.

 

Well then I'd say at present(I've viewed this argument very much as canning the Wii U or Vita nowish to fight another day) the Vita should definitely continue. There's good potential for so many things with this setup.

 

I think the idea of having a console that's good, or a handheld that's good, or having both form something greater than the sum of its parts is, as Boris would say, very niiiiice.

 

So maybe that's the way forward? A unification of the handheld and the console? I feel that's what WiiU was trying, and what Vita+PS4 might actually achieve.

[Happenstance]

So maybe that's the way forward? A unification of the handheld and the console? I feel that's what WiiU was trying, and what Vita+PS4 might actually achieve.

 

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Sony have been trying this for a while with the PSP and PS3, linking them together for off screen play and I dont think it really took off then.

[Sheikah]

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Sony have been trying this for a while with the PSP and PS3, linking them together for off screen play and I dont think it really took off then.

 

I think the biggest difference now is that all PS4 games can apparently support it, whereas it was very limited in the number or PS3 games that could be remote played on PSP. It also certainly helps that the Vita has a bigger and higher resolution screen.

[Pestneb]

Good point on the hardware take per game.

Though...how did Nintendo screw Sony? If anything I thought it was the other way with Kutaragi screwing Ninty!

Aiming to dominate? Can we say that for either Wii U or Vita? Can they still manage to, down the line?

 

I'm fairly hazy on the whole thing tbh but...

From what I understand Ninty got Sony involved with some CD attachment, Phillips (I think) could do it cheaper, so Nintendo dumped Sony, lumping them with all the development costs. Sony were at a loss, then decided to make the PS1. Admittedly that hit Nintendo more than Sony long term, but either way, bad blood I would imagine.

 

As I see it Wii U and Vita are just place holders for now, holding a presence in their markets for the successor. So in a way, no, but yes. No, in as much as this hardware generation they will do little more than make a very small dent in the competitions profits (if even that.. I don't know how much competition is going on), but yes in as much as they hold open a potential spot for the successor to have another pop next gen. And tbh, they may not actually really be competing that much.

 

Vita is going for power, 3DS is a bit more quirky in input style.two different market areas.

 

Wii U is quirky, and has that home console market all to itself.

X1 and PS4 are in a console war. Thats expensive, and rather than pumping billions into a high risk, low gain 3rd contender position, Nintendo have navigated to a spectator alternative market no. 1 console position, medium risk, low gain.

It makes sense really, why fight over a small patch of land, and risk losing everything, when there is some perfectly good land just around the corner...

[dazzybee]

So the next handheld. SURELY Sony will do one, they're tying the vita very closely to the ps4, I think it will continue, but in what form is very difficult, maybe through the gakai they'll be able to have a truly portable home console, and both ways with the vita tv being apart of the next console... I think nintendos next console and handheld will be 100% merged, maybe sonys will too.

 

As for comparison with wiiu. I think they both can end up being very successful, if the ps4 dominates and the vita is a fantastic accessory to that then definitely, it's cheap and will only get cheaper, combined with having an extensive library because they'll all have plus then there ll certainly be A big up take, I don't think I will ever result in big game sales though (for the same reasons). As for wiiu , again, it being cheap, and releasing a wave of first party games then I think it could easily be peoples second consoles. I think the wiiu has a much bigger chance of succeeding though, it's already not that far behind vita sales and a much more pros gin slate of games into the future.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Retro_Link
Automerged Doublepost

[Pestneb]

GC and GBA tried it too.. Nintendo shelved it for Wii and now seem to have resurrected it with a eunuch handheld

 

I do think nintendo should allow the 3ds to link to the wii U, it should be possible right? I mean, if they got a killer app on the 3DS, and provided a free sister program for the Wii U, that allowed you to play it on the Wii U with upgraded graphics or multiplayer with the wii u.. something like that. no cables, just link your 3DS like a Wii controller would, and job's a good 'un.

35 million potential customers. Hey, the pokemon stadium games for example, and they could get a free/cheap 3d home console pokemon world program.

 

The thing with the PS4/Vita thing is, the Vita on its own costs more than my Wii U cost me. also with low vita sales, I can see it going the way GC->GBA did - cool on the games that use it, but largely unused. The fact all games use it is positive. It may be a way Nintendo and Sony may make X1 look a bit last gen, at least in that aspect

[dazzybee]

Only issue with remote play is what most people expected - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-vita-remote-play

 

However nice a feature it is, it simply doesn't work close to as well as the Wii u, which is a shame, if it isn't perfect it's almost pointless. But if Sony build the next machines around the idea, then it could be good.

[Sheikah]

Only issue with remote play is what most people expected - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-vita-remote-play

 

However nice a feature it is, it simply doesn't work close to as well as the Wii u, which is a shame, if it isn't perfect it's almost pointless. But if Sony build the next machines around the idea, then it could be good.

 

I know one or two people on here who have the PS4 and Vita have said it works really nicely - I guess some people are more perceptive to or irked by latency. It'll probably be one of those things where twitch gaming or FPS games won't fare as well, but personally I don't think those sorts of games lend well to off screen/remote play anyway.

 

While I like the convenience of the gamepad, I deliberately tried to avoid using it as the main screen when playing Wind Waker as it didn't do the game justice. The colours on the display are so washed out and dull compared to when I looked at the TV, and I often noticed display quirks like incredibly rough/jagged looking text (particularly anything highlighted in red). The screen could really be a lot better.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Sheikah

[Blade]

 

While I like the convenience of the gamepad, I deliberately tried to avoid using it as the main screen when playing Wind Waker as it didn't do the game justice. The colours on the display are so washed out and dull compared to when I looked at the TV, and I often noticed display quirks like incredibly rough/jagged looking text (particularly anything highlighted in red). The screen could really be a lot better.

 

The off screen functionality is a great idea. I also deliberately avoid using it as I agree games such as Zelda should always be played, if possible on a HD TV.

 

Of course people who dont regularly have access to a TV only can play on the gamepad. I know that some people actually prefer to play games on the gamepad.

 

I dont understand how you can prefer to play on a small screen such as the gamepad compared to a big HD TV. Its criminial to play Wind Waker in anything but HD! I suppose if you spend the majority of your time on the gamepad then you get used to it. Its ok for me as I live on my own.

 

I tried CoD on the gamepad and hated it. I know that @kav82 loves it. I do like using the gamepad for virtual console games and I play exclusively on the pad for them.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Blade

[Kav]

I play almost exclusively on the Gamepad, I just find it much more comfortable lying on my couch using the Gamepad screen than sitting looking at the TV to game. Although for some games I will use the TV (WW, Pikmin and those that force it; ZombiU).

[dazzybee]

I know one or two people on here who have the PS4 and Vita have said it works really nicely - I guess some people are more perceptive to or irked by latency. It'll probably be one of those things where twitch gaming or FPS games won't fare as well, but personally I don't think those sorts of games lend well to off screen/remote play anyway.

 

While I like the convenience of the gamepad, I deliberately tried to avoid using it as the main screen when playing Wind Waker as it didn't do the game justice. The colours on the display are so washed out and dull compared to when I looked at the TV, and I often noticed display quirks like incredibly rough/jagged looking text (particularly anything highlighted in red). The screen could really be a lot better.

 

I doubt I'd notice too much unless Its that bad, and I if it's playable it's still better than nothing.

 

As for wiiu, obviously they is better, but I really like playing VC games on the gamepad, and some games it's a great alternative if you want something on the tele, cod in particular is extremely impressive, and I've played runner 2 pretty much solely on the pad. I think the screen could be a lot better, of course it coud, but I think that's an insanely harsh statement on it.

 

Back to remote play. I've just moved to Paris and the tele is horrifically small and old the game pad is brilliant, kind of wish I had a ps4 so I could remote play with that (if it was backward a compatible I would have one damn them, as i needed a new ps3)

Edited December 11, 2013 by Retro_Link
Automerged Doublepost

[Fierce_LiNk]

No. Sony shouldn't drop out because Nintendo need them. If they had a monopoly in this market, they would be lazy as fuck and do nothing to push things forward. You need competition because it helps push up standards. It's partly why I never liked the bullshit of people thinking/saying that Nintendo were never competing with the likes of Microsoft or Sony. Why not? They NEED to compete.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Retro_Link

[Serebii]

I'm fairly hazy on the whole thing tbh but...

From what I understand Ninty got Sony involved with some CD attachment, Phillips (I think) could do it cheaper, so Nintendo dumped Sony, lumping them with all the development costs. Sony were at a loss, then decided to make the PS1. Admittedly that hit Nintendo more than Sony long term, but either way, bad blood I would imagine.

 

You forgot the bit where Sony was wanting to get the majority of the royalties from all Nintendo's IPs. Sony was definitely wanting to screw Nintendo. While Nintendo dropped them harshly, it was Sony's own doing.

[Hero-of-Time]

You forgot the bit where Sony was wanting to get the majority of the royalties from all Nintendo's IPs. Sony was definitely wanting to screw Nintendo. While Nintendo dropped them harshly, it was Sony's own doing.

 

Nintendo knew the deal they were in, hence why they started looking elsewhere. Sony didn't do any double dealings. Nintendo on the other hand went behind Sonys back and did a deal with Phillips, leaving Sony completely in the dark. This had Sony announcing the Nintendo Playstation add on and then a couple of days later Nintendo announcing their partnership with Phillips, to Sonys complete surprise.

 

Considering they are a Japanese company, where good dealings and honour is highly rated, it was a very shameful practice.

[Serebii]

Nintendo knew the deal they were in, hence why they started looking elsewhere. Sony didn't do any double dealings. Nintendo on the other hand went behind Sonys back and did a deal with Phillips, leaving Sony completely in the dark. This had Sony announcing the Nintendo Playstation add on and then a couple of days later Nintendo announcing their partnership with Phillips, to Sonys complete surprise.

 

Considering they are a Japanese company, where good dealings and honour is highly rated, it was a very shameful practice.

Yeah, the way Nintendo went about it was wrong, but the fact is, they were both being idiots and both screwed eachother in one way or another.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Serebii

[Hero-of-Time]

Yeah, the way Nintendo went about it was wrong, but the fact is, they were both being idiots and both screwed eachother in one way or another.

 

True but doing the dirty and leaving Sony in the dark was just flat out disrespectful and shameful. At least Sony were open about trying to screw them over.

 

Crazy that these actions would cause the creation of Nintendos biggest rival.

[Rummy]

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Sony have been trying this for a while with the PSP and PS3, linking them together for off screen play and I dont think it really took off then.

 

What if they're just ahead of the curve? Tech's constantly growing and I feel there's more unification of all ourselves now(the prevalence of easy facebook logins to most things being one example), carrying our emails and the internet in our pockets too. We can do so many of the same things in so many different places...something about the handheld/console interaction feels somewhat like that to my mind. Sometimes the idea alone isn't enough, it does need pushing as well.

 

Maybe the way forward is to unite the two markets as I said. Two products that can standalone, but can together do awesome things.

 

Going back to the original question at hand: No. Sony shouldn't drop out because Nintendo need them. If they had a monopoly in this market, they would be lazy as fuck and do nothing to push things forward. You need competition because it helps push up standards. It's partly why I never liked the bullshit of people thinking/saying that Nintendo were never competing with the likes of Microsoft or Sony. Why not? They NEED to compete.

 

I saw this said before, but then...I do feel like they're not trying to compete right now. How much of the software has pushed forward? Again sadly I don't know about Vita - I'd ask though...would that strange rear touch screen exist without players like Nintendo in the market? When I played a Vita it was a strange little party game called Frobisher Says I think...it reminded me quite a bit of WarioWare style, and made really good use of the Vita's hardware bits(movement sensors, rear screen).

 

Crazy that these actions would cause the creation of Nintendos biggest rival.

 

Are....are Nintendo...batman?! It's intriguing how many things HAVE come from Nintendo's doing, through imitation of innovation and what not, it'd be very sad to see them out of the market for that reason imo.

[Mokong]

Bloody hell again?

 

Ok let me address this "test" situation thing since it now seems to be growing legs even though Cube and Kav have put it behind them

 

The original post was just a simple suggestion that a Nintendo game should be considered "Game of the Generation" rather than a Sony game which what was already being discussed.

 

The post itself was not antagonising, but a mod (Cube) did delete it because he felt given who the poster was and knowing said person has had many arguments in the past with the people already discussing in that thread, Cube felt the post would become a starting point for another argument, not because of the post content but because or the people involved, which he wanted to prevent before it started. Sad situation yes but this is unfortunately the atmosphere we have now.

 

Kav then reposted the same and it was left because he had not been involved in many arguments so Cube felt his post would be less of a "target" so to speak.

 

 

Now the people involved have put that behind them I suggest everyone else do the same.

 

 

As for this thread, honestly I just can't believe how we keep having this same mess repeat over and over. After an incident has finished I like hope we as a forum will then move on and learn from the past but everytime my hopes remain but hopes.

 

I used to refer to this place as my "Online Home", I still do but it feels more like a Broken Home where siblings would rather stab each other than try work out differences now.

All this continued bickering is just driving away potential new members, honestly if I wasn't a member here and was looking in considering joining I probably wouldn't. And it's driving some people away, we are losing members and shrinking as a community rather than growing.

 

It isn't down to any one person or any one "side", it's both. I've seen terms like "Sony Defence Club" or whatever tossed around which might be an accurate assesment of some people but it does feel like there is a "Nintendo Defence Club" too, on either side if something negetive is said about one there are people who feel the need to defend their chosen brand and it is detroying this place.

 

Remember this, this site is run by volunteers, the mods and admins on the forums, volunteers, the writing staff on the mainsite volunteers. The only money the site makes is used to pay for server costs and keeping this place online. No one single member of staff gains financially from this place not even Ashley who runs this place. We've had people leave staff because they just haven't been happy with the way the community has gone and ultimately I can see us losing more if it continues and wouldn't be surprised it caused the site to just shut down one day because the staff felt it wasn't worth taking time out of their own personal lives anymore trying to watch over this place because it just devolves into such mind numbing bickering.

 

I'm fucking typing this shit while trying to feed my son his breakfast and get ready to bring my wife to the hospital for a checkup on our next baby due in a few weeks. I should be focusing on that but I feel I can't leave it till later cause who knows how many more pages of usless bickering will be here when I get back.

 

I'm tempted to just lock the thread and leave it, but the original topic was a good one, it was a nice comparison and a nice flipping of a much wornout topic in an attempt to create some new discussion and maybe even get both "sides" a bit closer to being on the same page, yet once again it gets flipped over and we are back to the wornout crap again.

 

 

Seriously what do people want from this place? Do the "Nintendo" fans want us to ban anyone who owns an "Other Console"? Do you want us to delete the Other Console boards and live ina bubble like only Nintendo make consoles?

 

Do Sony/MS fans us to ban anyone who tries to be positive about Nintendo?

 

Neither will happen. Everyone who is here originally joined because they were Nintendo fans EVERYONE. Just cause some have over the years gravitated more towards Sony or MS because they were not getting their full fill of gaming with just Nintendo does not mean they have any less right to be here.

 

And yes Nintendo haven't been doing well so far with the Wii U, but do we really have to only focus on the negetive stuff? If there are positives to be found then lets talk about them. If someone enjoys playing their Wii U and doesn't want to own another console let them. There is no need to belittle anyones choice.

 

Ultimately I know there are a few so called Sony fans who also own Wii U's too (maybe more than I'm aware of for all I know). Hell I know there is at least one person in the "Nintendo Camp" who has expressed interest in seeing Nintendo go 3rd Party after being disappointed initially with the Wii U. It all works both ways

 

 

I don't know if this post makes any bloody sense as I'm just fed up right now, Christmas and a New Year are fast approaching, can we use this time to try and meet halfway on this bickering to try and keep threads on topic without digging up crap and devolving stuff so that we as a community can just move on and hopefully see a change in atmosphere that will help of grow again rather than shrink?

 

This idea of battle lines and "Sides" is ridiculous and stupid, this whole notion of a "Console War" seems to be have been taken litterly and turned this forum into an episode of South Park.

 

 

Ash made a post last week about what happened with the 3D World thread and posted some new guidelines, we've still been a bit cautious and giving some leeway but if people want mods to really start cracking down like police don't go moaning later when you think we are becoming too harsh. As has been said many times before being a member of this forum is a priveledge not a right and we need a lot more respect from EVEYONE for EVERYONE.

[Agent Gibbs]

Talking Bloody Sense.

 

 

very very well said!

 

 

 

The main topic is should sony drop out of the handheld market, and go third party

 

yes/no to that, what they bring to the handheld market isthat they make excellent hardware

 

but they bring next to nothing to the software market on handhelds, their first party IP's would work equally as well on 3DS or better yet (in Killzone and uncharted's case) on console, and thats the issue most of their games are stripped down console experiences which don't lend well to the portable experience.

 

the only unique game they have is tearaway, the rear touch panel allows the finger to poke into the screen, but even this could be altered to the 3DS

The best portable games on Vita are the indie titles and PSP emulated games

 

As a companion to the PS3/PS4 with remote play the Vita helps justify its own existence

Edited December 11, 2013 by Retro_Link

[liger05]

The thing is Sony banked on the idea that people want a console experience in their hands. You could argue why not as that’s what the PSP was offering and that sold 80 mil units. Worrying is that PSP audience has ignored the Vita by either going to the 3DS or just giving up on handheld gaming.

 

In Japan Nintendo were pretty smart in the sense they defiantly got PSP owners to move to the 3DS due to IP’s like MH.

 

The thing is Sony banked on the idea that people want a console experience in their hands. You could argue why not as that’s what the PSP was offering and that sold 80 mil units. Worrying is that PSP audience has ignored the Vita by either going to the 3DS or just giving up on handheld gaming.

 

In Japan Nintendo were pretty smart in the sense they defiantly got PSP owners to move to the 3DS due to IP’s like MH.

 

Things would probably be different if Western developers/publishers supported the Vita and I think Sony expected western third parties to jump on board but as the DS and 3DS has found getting western development support is near impossible even if the hardware is selling well.

 

Western publishers see money in smartphone games not dedicated handhelds.

[Happenstance]

Western publishers see money in smartphone games not dedicated handhelds.

 

I assume thats what Sony was trying to get with the whole Playstation Mobile thing but that never seemed to take off either.

[Retro_Link]

Ok I've just sat down with a cup of tea and tidied this thread up!

At first I was like:

 

 

but in the end I just thought sod it, so if there are a couple of borderline posts that got deleted sorry for that.

 

6 pages to 3. BAM.

 

I've allowed the recent deviation on to Off-TV play through, because it does highlight something the Vita is successfully bringing to the market and the gaming industry.

 

And I've also kept Mokong's very well written reminder of what this forum should be about.

 

Keep Calm and Carry On

Edited December 11, 2013 by Retro_Link