The-chosen-one Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 The only real zelda in its core, where Ocarina of time and Majoras mask, they should re-think their whole strategy, what made ocarina of time so great that people are still talking about it? one for example, whas the story, that you grow up from a small boy without parents to an adult who kicks ass, they should do something like that again, a deeper storyline, also what made it great was the magical feeling the game had as a fantasy game, like the ocarina fluit which had some powers in it. interaction with the villagers, the quests where also awesome, and as for majoras mask that game was magical, the mask powers just awesome. and for ocarina of time i loved the special powers like the gauntlets to lift up heavy stuff, and Dins fire, stuff like that made link look extremely powerfull the horse riding has to stay in a zelda game, and they have to put more into the overworld more enemies more sidequests etc etc.. so in short zelda has to become zelda again. no motion controls, just the button smashing lol, and keep the tablet screen for items, puzzles, etc (ocarina fluit usage)
Fused King Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 I think they should definitely let Retro or perhaps Level 5 have a crack at this franchise.
Kagato Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 Im really excited at the prospect of a brand new Zelda game, i hope they keep motion controls in as these where a great addition to the series and if they refined the control on WiiU that would be fantastic. Of course my favourite Zelda game of all time is Zelda 3, it seemed to be the biggest, fullest adventure Link ever went on and the world was full of interesting characters, if they can somehow bring that grand scale over to the WiiU with the motion controls intact we could have the best game ever made. Lets not forget too that apart from the main story beats, a lot of the content in Zelda 3 could be completed in any order or missed out completely.
Zechs Merquise Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 This notion that any of the Zelda titles are 'crap' is utter shite. I have my favourites, I also have ones I like less than others. But to say any of them are bad is just bull shit. I love the NES titles are you explored more and there was a greater sense of discovery in them. I love A LttP because it's basically the perfection of the 2D formula. I love OoT because despite it being the first 3D Zelda, it's also more or less a perfect game, everything just comes together. I didn't like Majora's Mask as much because I feel the timed nature of the game doesn't allow for as much exploration as you're always watching the clock. Initially I hated the graphical style of WW, but now I think it's one of the most beautiful games ever created - it also was the closest game to the original in terms of freedom and exploration, however the fetch quest at the end was a little bit of a let down. I enjoyed Twilight Princess and thought it was a magical experience. However it was very much like OoT ver2.0. This is great, but for me it lives in the shadow of OoT and I didn't like the fact that despite the looming crisis no one in town was really bothered. Skyward Sword was a magnificent return to form. Despite it being the most linear Zelda game, the parts between dungeons held more gameplay than previously and a lot more challenge. The bosses were incredible and the game play was sublime. What's more the art style is incredible, up there with WW. However the sky felt empty and there was almost a total lack of exploration leaving the world feeling like stages rather than a whole seem less world. Each game is magnificent though and even though I have my favourites I'd be hard pressed to think of games that I'd rather play than any of my least favourite Zelda games - that's how good they are. However I would welcome a Skyrim/Fallout style Zelda with an open world and the difficulty of the NES titles, it'd be a nice change of pace from Skyward Sword. Also, in Fallout 3 I would love just walking in one direction and seeing what I'd come across, I'd love to do that in Hyrule. Just to trek through a vast forest to see what was on the other side, finally coming to rock face where you discover a crack, then placing a bomb and revealing a secret. The NES games were great for that.
Retro_Link Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 I would love just walking in one direction and seeing what I'd come across, I'd love to do that in Hyrule. Just to trek through a vast forest to see what was on the other side, finally coming to rock face where you discover a crack, then placing a bomb and revealing a secret. The NES games were great for that.This. I thought we were going to get this with Twilight Princess onwards... where in the trailer they showed a deep forest, they showed hills, rivers and open plains... but then they went and made all the hills out of reach and gave you linear paths through the woods etc...
Ville Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) This notion that any of the Zelda titles are 'crap' is utter shite. I have my favourites, I also have ones I like less than others. But to say any of them are bad is just bull shit. I love the NES titles are you explored more and there was a greater sense of discovery in them. I love A LttP because it's basically the perfection of the 2D formula. I love OoT because despite it being the first 3D Zelda, it's also more or less a perfect game, everything just comes together. -- However I would welcome a Skyrim/Fallout style Zelda with an open world and the difficulty of the NES titles, it'd be a nice change of pace from Skyward Sword. Also, in Fallout 3 I would love just walking in one direction and seeing what I'd come across, I'd love to do that in Hyrule. Just to trek through a vast forest to see what was on the other side, finally coming to rock face where you discover a crack, then placing a bomb and revealing a secret. The NES games were great for that. Speaking of which...if we look at the official Zelda timeline, there's something quite curious to be found there. I've marked the 3D console games there: See what's missing? Edited January 25, 2013 by Ville
Ronnie Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 I thought that third timeline was just to chuck all the older Zelda games that don't fit into Nintendo's post-OOTera storytelling Great post Zech. I didn't like the fact that despite the looming crisis no one in town was really bothered. One of my biggest issues with TP as well. There was no real impending sense of doom and I even wondered what Ganondorf's agenda actually was. It felt very disconnected, like they rushed through the second half of the game and tacked on a Ganondorf storyline on at the last minute.
Magnus Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 what made ocarina of time so great that people are still talking about it? Nostalgia?
Grazza Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 It doesn't matter for shit if its heart was in the right place, you could argue close to that for anything. It needs mind, body AND soul, it needs to be a complete package. Sure, it can TRY to be the complete package but if you fail/are shit at it then you don't count for jack. If anything, it's even worse, you're a half-life, almost what you should be, but not quite. A ghost of a memory - all the more frustrating to those who want/expect the real thing. It ain't nothing on you, but I dislike half ass, weak ass, pathetic justifications or reasonings to explain a zelda. 'well it was almost there'; almost? I don't care for almost! Almost just isn't fucking good enough! Zelda SHOULD be all there. We've come to expect nothing less, and it shouldn't be so! Come on Rummy, all I'm saying is that it got a lot right. If we fail to acknowledge the good bits, the series will fluctuate wildly in all sorts of areas. I agree that Zeldas should be held up to high standards, but TP and Skyward Sword didn't fall short by equal amounts. TP is significantly better. It's not like Twilight Princess hasn't received any flak over the years!
Retro_Link Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 TP is significantly better.In your opinion.
Rummy Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Come on Rummy, all I'm saying is that it got a lot right. If we fail to acknowledge the good bits, the series will fluctuate wildly in all sorts of areas. I agree that Zeldas should be held up to high standards, but TP and Skyward Sword didn't fall short by equal amounts. TP is significantly better. It's not like Twilight Princess hasn't received any flak over the years! Yeah, my post was a bit deliberately on the extreme side. However, I meant the points I was trying to make. Having 2 or 3 good bits, but 10 mediocre bits isn't good enough. Acknowledging the good bits is ok, but this isn't any old game - it's Zelda. It should be at a standard beyond just needing an acknowledgement of the good bits. Did we just acknowledge the good bits of OoT? No, it was fairly awesome all around. Did we just acknowledge the good bits of LttP? No, again, it was fairly awesome all round. That's somewhat the point I'm trying to make, I think. what made ocarina of time so great that people are still talking about it? To pose a direct counter to popular opinion with a question as to why it is held is not the way forward. WHY shouldn't people think it's great/still be talking about it, what criticisms do you have to offer? Nostalgia? As for you Magnus, you're just being provocative for the sake of it, and you know better. Unless you want to qualify that very vague statement of support? It's a point Id consider as valid, albeit it with a pinch of salt as it's very hard to measure/qualify; however because of that I think if you wish to make it you should qualify it somewhat more. I can easily argue in favour of OoT, but it's a majority opinion anyway; I feel the opposing minority ought to present their counter-opinons.
Retro_Link Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Just thought I'd gather some pretty Zelda images in anticipation for Zelda Wii U.
Wii Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Just thought I'd gather some pretty Zelda images in anticipation for Zelda Wii U. Take the one of Skyward Sword out and you've a nice little collection.
The-chosen-one Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 To pose a direct counter to popular opinion with a question as to why it is held is not the way forward. WHY shouldn't people think it's great/still be talking about it, what criticisms do you have to offer? I have none, it was just perfect in my opinion.
Jonnas Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 As for you Magnus, you're just being provocative for the sake of it, and you know better. Unless you want to qualify that very vague statement of support? It's a point Id consider as valid, albeit it with a pinch of salt as it's very hard to measure/qualify; however because of that I think if you wish to make it you should qualify it somewhat more. I can easily argue in favour of OoT, but it's a majority opinion anyway; I feel the opposing minority ought to present their counter-opinons. I love OoT as much as anyone (2nd best Zelda, IMO), but we have to admit there's a lot of nostalgia involved. As in, if one were to play OoT and another Zelda game at the same time (nowadays, I mean), I believe their opinion on OoT would be jumbled a bit, and could perhaps help understand what makes recent games better or worse than it. Worked for me when I played it alongside Wind Waker.
killer kirby Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 I think they should definitely let Retro or perhaps Monolith soft and From Software have a crack at this franchise. Fixed it for you.
Rummy Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 I love OoT as much as anyone (2nd best Zelda, IMO), but we have to admit there's a lot of nostalgia involved. As in, if one were to play OoT and another Zelda game at the same time (nowadays, I mean), I believe their opinion on OoT would be jumbled a bit, and could perhaps help understand what makes recent games better or worse than it. Worked for me when I played it alongside Wind Waker. Well indeed, I did say I'd consider it a valid point; its problem being is it's difficult to measure/quantify - hence I feel rather than just saying 'oh, nostalgia! retrospecs!' lets have a discussion about it, on the finer points/criticisms! I won't simply accept 'oh nostalgia' as anything close to a valid argument without further qualification. Nostalgia influence on video game views does intrigue me quite a lot. I definitely posted about it somewhere, though I think it was the WW remake thread. ReZ, for example, didn't like OoT on the 3DS - he played it in a modern age, and it was refreshing to see him express his disagreeing views on it - especially when expressing them against such a game is likely to meet a backlash!
Cube Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 My nostalgia for Ocarina is a bit strange. I prefer all the earlier parts, and for me the game goes a bit dull as Adult link. I think part of that was because I was still new to 3D games, and I'd never encountered a "scary" game before - for 11 year old me, the Well was terrifying. I even stopped playing at the Shadow Temple. It wasn't until three years later (and borrowing, completing and loving Majora's Mask) that I went back and finished it. Strangely, on the 3DS version I've stopped playing at the Shadow Temple again (although I have done the Spirit Temple this time).
Rummy Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 I recall basically shitting my pants in regards well and shadow temple etc. I could only play games on the weekend, on a shared family tv, which essentially meant I could play on Friday and Saturday; involving both early mornings and late nights. I think I had to get my sister to stay awake with me as I played the well, I tried the shadow temple another time but had to wait for daylight cos it put me too much on edge(not to mention my backdoor made random cracking noises!). Sometimes I'd play so late, everyone would be asleep and the house would be dark and I'd eventually turn off but be too scared to go anywhere and just sleep on the sofa(related to quite a fear of the dark when I was little, which is hugely bizarre now). ANYWAY, I'm off point. If I played the game now, I'd not feel like that at all - evoking such an emotional reaction helps the nostalgia view, and it's close to impossible for me to try and be completely objective. On your own point, I kinda think I know what you're saying about it getting dull; but much of the optional/sidequest stuff kept me entertained. I also often did the Spirit Temple before the Shadow Temple, just out of accidentally doing it like that first time. Now I tend to still do it, but I run into the Shadow Temple and grab the hover boots first.
Fused King Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 I must say, and I'm not trying to be provocative here, that OoT is one of my least favourite Zelda games mainly because of the fact that it is just pure Zelda. Pure Zelda was at its peak with A Link to the Past, and they just made that into a 3D game with OoT. Most other Zelda games have a certain added extra throughout the game, like the strange atmosphere or story elements. To me, OoT feels quite basic in that regard. Still, I believe Windwaker was my first ever grand console Zelda experience and has stayed my favourite ever since. In that sense I got a nostalgic boner for The Windwaker.
Serebii Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Speaking of which...if we look at the official Zelda timeline, there's something quite curious to be found there. I've marked the 3D console games there: See what's missing? I feel like I'm missing something :p
Jamba Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Does anyone think that there might be a time when we don't play as "the one and only Link". Maybe part of the hero collective instead or people just inspired by Link? I'm thinking through how, from a character perspective that Nintendo might make this multiplayer type of things work.
Retro_Link Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 I must say, and I'm not trying to be provocative here, that OoT is one of my least favourite Zelda games mainly because of the fact that it is just pure Zelda. Pure Zelda was at its peak with A Link to the Past, and they just made that into a 3D game with OoT. Most other Zelda games have a certain added extra throughout the game, like the strange atmosphere or story elements. To me, OoT feels quite basic in that regard. Still, I believe Windwaker was my first ever grand console Zelda experience and has stayed my favourite ever since. In that sense I got a nostalgic boner for The Windwaker. Yeah but you came to Ocarina of Time late on didn't you? In that regard I feel the same about A Link To The Past, because that's a game I still haven't played, but don't really feel compelled to because it's very similar in structure to Ocarina of Time/Twilight Princess. I feel like I don't want to play another Zelda going through the same old temple order etc... If I came to Ocarina of Time after all the others, I'd probably feel it was basic/the same old Zelda too, but as your first Zelda (in my case) there was nothing better [at the time!]!!
Fused King Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Does anyone think that there might be a time when we don't play as "the one and only Link". Maybe part of the hero collective instead or people just inspired by Link? I'm thinking through how, from a character perspective that Nintendo might make this multiplayer type of things work. Here are some ideas I've been discussing with a friend: * Link is of royalty and this time you play as Zelda, a girl who loses her parents early on in the game and is raised by a new race. As such, this would actually be a true Legend of Zelda * I kind of liked the idea that was going around when that fake artwork for 'Vally of the Floods' circulated around the internet. You'd be an old man who thinks he is the reincarnation of the legendary hero of time * Link is not human * Link is black * Also an interesting idea would be indeed to have a group called 'L.I.N.K' instead of just one person.
Ville Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 I thought that third timeline was just to chuck all the older Zelda games that don't fit into Nintendo's post-OOTera storytelling Maybe so, but now that it has been put together, Nintendo pretty much has to follow it...so why not continue from the branch that hasn't received any games since the Oracle ones (2001)? @Serebii I agree with @Rummy, nostalgia is a pretty weak argument. OoT is still the 2nd best rated game of all time on Gamerankings.com. Doesn't necessarily mean that it will hold up today, but at its time OoT was pretty damn amazing. Why? Just like Mario 64, it was 3D-gaming done right, but instead of platforming, it was now an action rpg. Great graphics, awesome soundtrack involving you with the ocarina, a huge open world to explore in two time periods, spot-on controls, lots of secrets to find, Navi to help you go in the right direction (yes, I said it), much variety in dungeon themes and regions etc. In short, it was a loved franchise's jump to 3D and done exceptionally well. So yes, part of the charm was no doubt the transition from 2D to 3D, an advantage games nowadays don't have. If you look at modern killer games, they're just pushing the boundaries in other ways, like absolutely huge worlds (Skyrim), stunning HD graphics, seamless co-op / multiplayer (Borderlands, Guild Wars 2), even better narratives (Red Dead Redemption) etc. Nintendo's approach has mainly been the technology / gimmick one, i.e. using motion control and 3D. However, just like they have probably noticed by now, you can only get so far with relying on only those (at least with the current technology, that is).
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