Ronnie Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 A worthy adversary it seems Spending lots of time getting somewhere only to find a treasure chest with useless rupees and/or 'treasure' is a staple of most Zelda games though. And if random bits of money hiding in treasure chests makes sense in any Zelda game, it's this one. At least in WW, you need to collect lots of rupees to progress the story, which, admittedly isn't the height of watertight game-design. In terms of cracks in the story-telling I think a game like TP is far more guilty there. As for level design, the dungeons in WW are so intricately well constructed, and often open-ended, especially compared to the linear ones in later instalments. I suppose it'd be boring if we all liked the same instalments in the series.
Sheikah Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 It also then didn't send you on a fetchquests to pad out the time you would have otherwise spent in the dungeons. As for a water dungeon, the game code contains reference to an item called the Water Boots. They don't hvae a model but they can be equiped, and Link does his little hop to put them on like the Iron Boots. They could have worked like either the hover boots, granting a time based ability to walk on water, or perhaps been like Deku Links ability to skip on the surface. Either way, it would have helped to solve the issue of "we can't have water temple if Link can't swim for crap" - the item being the solution to the entire temple which is how they are always designed. It's not people plucking ideas out of thin air. We know 2 almost complete dungeons were scrapped (and that doesn't say anything for no where near complete dungeons) but since they were most probably reused in other games, their inclusion now would be pointless if just added in as was. lol, I remember Link swimming in WW. I was like "the hell you doing, GET YOUR HEAD OUT THE WATER SON!"
Captain Falcon Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 lol, I remember Link swimming in WW. I was like "the hell you doing, GET YOUR HEAD OUT THE WATER SON!" You'd think with a head that big and round, it would probably keep him afloat for quite some time.
Cube Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 The great thing about Zelda is that everyone has their favourite and least favourite, and there really is no wrong answer (unlike, for example, saying Sonic 06 is the best Sonic). They're all great games. For me, Wind Waker and Minish Cap are my favourite and Twilight Princess and Zelda 2 are my least favourites (I treat 2D and 3D separately).
Ronnie Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 At lot of these geeky comic strips aren't actually funny in the slightest, but this made me a chuckle:
Jonnas Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 Regarding that comic, this is the actual source. I wasn't that impressed with the music when playing outside a couple of tracks but the Zelda symphony did make me rethink it a bit. Still, I don't think it bests any Zelda that came before it in terms of quality of the composition ( though sure it beats them for audio quality as it actually sounds like genuine instruments this time), or TMC and TP that came afterwards. You see the shilhouette, and that's frankly all you can see bar a mass of blue water and blue sky, and you sail toward it only to find there is very little actually there once you arrive and the odds are you don't yet have the tools to do any further exploring. If you decide to come back once you have the necessary bits, the Silver Rupee in the chest might fill your wallet, but it won't fill the sense of emptyness when you realise how much time you spent to get it - especially when the trip wasn't even that entertaing as you spent most of it with the controller on the floor and there was nothing to look at along the way. Feeling let down once was bad enough, but repeating that same sense of wonder (well, it's more along the lines of "hope" in that I hope this won't be like the last time) and disappointment with the vast majority of islands left a sour taste. If these 3 paragraphs were slightly rewritten, you'd get my opinion of Twilight Princess. It's uncanny. Needless to say, I disagree with a lot of things you just said
Cube Posted January 25, 2013 Posted January 25, 2013 That looks like it was stolen from http://awkwardzombie.com/.
Hogge Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 The great thing about Zelda is that everyone has their favourite and least favourite, and there really is no wrong answer (unlike, for example, saying Sonic 06 is the best Sonic). They're all great games. For me, Wind Waker and Minish Cap are my favourite and Twilight Princess and Zelda 2 are my least favourites (I treat 2D and 3D separately). Well, I think that I'm 100% right when I say that the CDI games were the worst
Wii Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Which do you prefer?... I was going to be smart and put an image of Twilight Princess but meh. Seriously though top image.
Wii Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 The top image is being run through Dolphin, fairly sure. There's something not quite right about the remake. I don't know is it less toony/cel shaded or if it's the lighting. Can't put my finger on it.
dazzybee Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 The top one is from a cut scene and the bottom in game isn't it? The top one looks flatter, more like a cartoon while the bottom looks more like a game if that make sense, in 3D. I'm prettyu confident the bottom will look infinitely better in motion.
Guy Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Both look nice. The first is more familiar and therefore warmer, but the newer image isn't without pleasant qualities - I particularly like how the characters resemble little figurines. Pretty sure the final game will be tweaked a lot before release - I expect Nintendo rushed this announcement - and the preview images - out to maintain/generate hype for the Wii U.
killer kirby Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 (unlike, for example, saying Sonic 06 is the best Sonic). What do ya mean? It's my favorite sonic, it was the one game that showed what Sonic was truly all about, all the others are crap IMO, whenever I'm working in a game store from time to time, I get asked by parents what's the best sonic, I say right away Sonic 06. Because that's how much of a great person I am.
Agent Gibbs Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 (edited) Elements from the cut dungeons were still left on the retail game disk and only accessible from action replay codes, so surely they could flesh them out, as they were missing textures, and they are now replacing textures...surely they could do "something" there was an article on destructoid years ago, but for the life of me i cannot find it now Exactly. Wind Waker felt short whereas it wasn't noticeable in OOT. But as said those cut dungeons I'm sure were implemented in other games, so they'll have to design new ones. They need to add incentive to those who've played this game before? Do we know if this'll be a retail game, eShop game or both? the Light dungeon/Temple of time dungeon meant for OoT was in TP, LoZ constantly does this with cut elements Edited January 26, 2013 by Agent Gibbs
EEVILMURRAY Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Do we even know what stage the dungeons were removed? I personally think that Wind Waker unfairly gets labelled as "unfinished". Content may have been cut at some stage, but it was clearly a finished product - for an actual unfinished game look at Knight of the Old Republic 2 and Sonic 2006. For all we know, Nintendo looked at the development schedule and said "we need this game finished in X months, so we need to reduce the amount of dungeons before we start making them". The way people talk about it, it sounds like people think that Nintendo yanked out these near-complete dungeons at the last minute. And the way they talk about the Trifoce hunt sounds like they think Nintendo did it all after yanking out the dungeons. I'm pretty sure the Trifoce hunt took more time than a dungeon would of - they just wanted to do something a little bit different, in order to make good use of the game's world. The Trifoce hunt was mostly great - it was only translating the maps that was a pain. Getting the third pearl by Jabu just giving it to you, and you don't think that felt like a gip? The reason the Triforce hunt took so long was because you had to buy each chart (after saving up for each one) sail to each location and have the same recycled fishing routine over and over. Just because it may have taken longer doesn't make it better than a dungeon with better/varied activity. It felt cheap, uninspired and felt like Nintendo just wanted to draw the game out.
Sprout Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 So, a few observations about Link in these screenshots. Sorry if I'm a bit of a bore or if this stuff has already been brought up! With an orange shirt, black belt and lack of colour in his eyes, this is clearly . Due to the lighting/shading/whatever, we can fully see Link’s nose, which I think looks a bit unsightly at the moment. In the Gamecube version of Wind Waker, Link’s nose probably wouldn’t be visible in that shade. Link’s most important features of his character design are his large eyes and handsome eyebrows. These allow him to really show off his emotions. In both the Gamecube and DS games, these were drawn above the hair at all times, but this isn’t the case in these screenshots, probably because the character models were just dumped into the scene to see how they looked. Also important in regards to Link’s eyes is that they were largely unaffected by lighting. Even in the dark, the whites of his eyes would always remain white. The screenshots are a work in progress of course. Given how important Link's eyes are to his design though, I'd imagine they're gonna get tweaked to match how they originally looked. Though I guess I'm playing a dangerous game, assuming things like that, heh. Still, I think he would look much better! Anyway, I look forward to seeing just how this remake will look in motion! Ah, I... I need to go play it again!
Sheikah Posted January 26, 2013 Posted January 26, 2013 Getting the third pearl by Jabu just giving it to you, and you don't think that felt like a gip? The reason the Triforce hunt took so long was because you had to buy each chart (after saving up for each one) sail to each location and have the same recycled fishing routine over and over. Just because it may have taken longer doesn't make it better than a dungeon with better/varied activity. It felt cheap, uninspired and felt like Nintendo just wanted to draw the game out. Yeah, Triforce hunt sucked ass. A very bad idea and poorly executed.
Retro_Link Posted January 27, 2013 Author Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) So, a few observations about Link in these screenshots. Sorry if I'm a bit of a bore or if this stuff has already been brought up! With an orange shirt, black belt and lack of colour in his eyes, this is clearly . Due to the lighting/shading/whatever, we can fully see Link’s nose, which I think looks a bit unsightly at the moment. In the Gamecube version of Wind Waker, Link’s nose probably wouldn’t be visible in that shade. Link’s most important features of his character design are his large eyes and handsome eyebrows. These allow him to really show off his emotions. In both the Gamecube and DS games, these were drawn above the hair at all times, but this isn’t the case in these screenshots, probably because the character models were just dumped into the scene to see how they looked. Also important in regards to Link’s eyes is that they were largely unaffected by lighting. Even in the dark, the whites of his eyes would always remain white. Great observations! didn't notice the shirt colour change, prefer the green. Though you can see that Links nose is visible in the shade of this screen for example. Whilst I agree with you that Link's eyebrows should ideally be brought to the front, the problem they have now is with the depth they've now put on his hair. In the mock-up image you've posted it looks kind of jarring having a flat 2D eyebrow on top of a bouncy 3D fringe. Edited January 27, 2013 by Retro_Link
Rummy Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 Getting the third pearl by Jabu just giving it to you, and you don't think that felt like a gip? The reason the Triforce hunt took so long was because you had to buy each chart (after saving up for each one) sail to each location and have the same recycled fishing routine over and over. Just because it may have taken longer doesn't make it better than a dungeon with better/varied activity. It felt cheap, uninspired and felt like Nintendo just wanted to draw the game out. I mentioned before, but again, I'm fairly sure the game somewhat accounted for this by hiding/sourcing heavy monies along the way, just had to look a bit for it. I never found saving the monies a big issues, though yeah the sailing got annoying. Looking back now, I quite enjoyed it all iirc. The top one is from a cut scene and the bottom in game isn't it? The top one looks flatter, more like a cartoon while the bottom looks more like a game if that make sense, in 3D. I'm prettyu confident the bottom will look infinitely better in motion. *moment to be a technical twat* Cutscene versus game shouldn't make much difference though as cutscenes aren't pre-rendered? I think Wii's certainly right, one's Dolphin. The top image is being run through Dolphin, fairly sure. There's something not quite right about the remake. I don't know is it less toony/cel shaded or if it's the lighting. Can't put my finger on it. More gradual/less crisp? I kinda feel the same I think.
Josh64 Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 I loved the look of the remake when I first saw it, but the more I keep looking, the more I think I prefer the GameCube style. I'll wait until I see it in motion to make my final judgement though
Rummy Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 (edited) I think we need to wait a bit more for more stuff, either this is an overstated re-make, or as Shorty kinda said; it's some basic shopping etc. Right now yes, the I think the GC stuff looks crisper/simpler to good effect, but I am feeling like these images aren't final product. Imo if they kill the toony look too much this game will not go down as well. ---------------------------------- Unrelated to my post; but just because I think this is an awesome bit of fanart that's relevant; How cute is this! Edited January 27, 2013 by Rummy
EEVILMURRAY Posted January 27, 2013 Posted January 27, 2013 The original Wind Waker was designed to be cel-shaded*. This pisses on that concept with some gradual shading. And if there is no actual gameplay tweaks there isn't any point in them doing this. *Something which I hated at the time (and still technically do) but have accepted something which has been fisted by many, many more fans.
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