General Gaming Sales/Charts Discussion

[Dcubed]

3 hours ago, killthenet said:

Is top 20 a good result for Daemon Ex Machina? It seems positive that it's charted but it probably doesn't equate to many sales. 

It's about what I'd expect.  It might be a Switch exclusive published by Nintendo, but it is ultimately still an ultra niche mech combat game that is a spiritual successor to Armored Core.

[Dcubed]

2 minutes ago, Ike said:

How does Gamepass work, do they rotate games out? Considering there were deals to get gamepass for a £1 or something, unless that was for the Windows one only, I can't imagine them making a lot of money from it.

First hit's free  

It's all about customer aquisition and retention for MS here.  The price to entry may be cheap, but if they can convince people to stick around? Then they stand to not only make a lot of money, but also make a lot of steady and predictable money.

 

In a heavily volatile industry? That is absolutely the holy grail for publishers.

Edited September 16, 2019 by Dcubed

[Ike]

Helps if I actually look up prices first, I see it ranges from £3.99 to £10.99 a month which makes more sense. For some reason I assumed it was like £40 a year or something.

[Sheikah]

Next gen is going to be very interesting between Sony and Microsoft. Game Pass and more first party output could swing things around for Xbox in a big way, especially if PS5 is just more of the same. Sony seem happy to just coast along this whole gen and rely on first party games, we'll see what innovations they'll bring to the table next year I guess.

I'm not sure you can say Sony have "coasted" by focusing on developing excellent first party games, as that is the most important thing to do (and is difficult) as a console owner, and something Microsoft have struggled to do. So long as the PS5 is the place that has the games people want to play again then those other features aren't going to matter so much. Games will always be king, and I'm yet to be convinced that Microsoft will have its own Bloodborne, God of War, Persona 5, Last Guardian, etc... 

 

I've also said it before but I think the reason Microsoft released these additional features (such as backwards compatibility) was because they were behind and trying to differentiate their console and attract new customers. I do think however that they focused on the wrong thing - people are often vocal about wanting features like backwards compatibility but ultimately it is very underused and most people play new games. Microsoft acquiring new studios is a step in the right direction for next gen but so far this is a completely unproven unknown as to whether we'll see smash hits.

[Ronnie]

5 hours ago, Sheikah said:

I'm not sure you can say Sony have "coasted" by focusing on developing excellent first party games, as that is the most important thing to do (and is difficult) as a console owner, and something Microsoft have struggled to do. So long as the PS5 is the place that has the games people want to play again then those other features aren't going to matter so much. Games will always be king, and I'm yet to be convinced that Microsoft will have its own Bloodborne, God of War, Persona 5, Last Guardian, etc... 

 

I've also said it before but I think the reason Microsoft released these additional features (such as backwards compatibility) was because they were behind and trying to differentiate their console and attract new customers. I do think however that they focused on the wrong thing - people are often vocal about wanting features like backwards compatibility but ultimately it is very underused and most people play new games. Microsoft acquiring new studios is a step in the right direction for next gen but so far this is a completely unproven unknown as to whether we'll see smash hits.

I don't think Backwards compatibility was part of some grand plan to differentiate the console, I just think it was a much requested feature than they managed to implement, and implement well. I'm sure Playstation gamers would love the feature too, regardless of how used it ends up being. It's better than not having it there, to the point where I'm sure PS5 will be backwards compatible.

I think it's fair to say Sony have sat back and just released great games this gen. They haven't had to do much else obviously. Xbox has done a lot more behind the scenes to set them up for next gen, and Game Pass could be/already is a game changer.

[Blade]

Hasn't it already been announced that PS5 will be backwards compatible? 

[Hero-of-Time]

Yooka Laylee and Concrete Genie entered the UK charts at position 31 and 34.

Awful result for both games. They both launched at budget prices, and on a Tuesday, yet still couldn't make a dent. Both games are very polished and complete games yet something like Ghost Recon (a broken open world mess filled with microtransactions) easily outsold them both.

Once again the mainstream market paves the way for the future of the industry.  

[Happenstance]

While I don’t think either game had great marketing and should have been shown off more, I don’t think it’s fair to just blame the mainstream market. They like what they like. We’ve all grown older and things change. It can’t all be Asteroids, Space Invaders and Adventure anymore.

[Ronnie]

20 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Yooka Laylee and Concrete Genie entered the UK charts at position 31 and 34.

Awful result for both games. They both launched at budget prices, and on a Tuesday, yet still couldn't make a dent. Both games are very polished and complete games yet something like Ghost Recon (a broken open world mess filled with microtransactions) easily outsold them both.

Once again the mainstream market paves the way for the future of the industry.  

Jesus. Yooka Laylee will have sold a bit digitally on Switch at least, which isn't counted in the charts, but still.

Someone needs to tell Sony it's all well and good having games like Tearaway or Concrete Genie on your console but if you're going to send them out to die and give them almost zero promotion, what's the point?

[Hero-of-Time]

17 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Someone needs to tell Sony it's all well and good having games like Tearaway or Concrete Genie on your console but if you're going to send them out to die and give them almost zero promotion, what's the point?

Same thing happened to Puppeteer on PS3. 

There was a good point made about this on this weeks episode of Sacred Symbols. The guys were saying how the developers of Concrete Genie got completely screwed over by Sony. Instead of promoting the game, Sony instead decided to release information about the PS5, completely taking away the conversation from anything else for the next couple of days. Bad form, IMO.

[Ronnie]

3 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

Same thing happened to Puppeteer on PS3. 

There was a good point made about this on this weeks episode of Sacred Symbols. The guys were saying how the developers of Concrete Genie got completely screwed over by Sony. Instead of promoting the game, Sony instead decided to release information about the PS5, completely taking away the conversation from anything else for the next couple of days. Bad form, IMO.

I downloaded that episode, not listened yet. It's a good point, they could have waited until a gap in the release schedule, especially as it wasn't exactly time sensitive news.

Maybe Sony has data that says the majority of PS4 owners out there are only interested in the big AAA games releases, but still, why settle for that, grow your market. And maybe they're only interested because that's the only thing that gets promoted.

[Hero-of-Time]

7 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Maybe Sony has data that says the majority of PS4 owners out there are only interested in the big AAA games releases, but still, why settle for that, grow your market. And maybe they're only interested because that's the only thing that gets promoted.

I honestly think that is the case. I mean, the reaction to the latest State of Play was a fine example of this. People were complaining about indie games being shown alongside TLOU2 and that they all looked cheap and garbage. Personally, I thought Arise looked great, but it seems that a lot of the PS user base just don't care about such things. I imagine Sony will have the sales data to back this up and I think this is why they've scaled back the amount of indie games that they push.

I was sitting watching the PlayStation Experience 2016 show last week (had it on while I was grinding on Dragon Quest  ) and the difference between Sony now and Sony then is like night and day.

[Ronnie]

9 minutes ago, Hero-of-Time said:

I honestly think that is the case. I mean, the reaction to the latest State of Play was a fine example of this. People were complaining about indie games being shown alongside TLOU2 and that they all looked cheap and garbage. Personally, I thought Arise looked great, but it seems that a lot of the PS user base just don't care about such things. I imagine Sony will have the sales data to back this up and I think this is why they've scaled back the amount of indie games that they push.

I was sitting watching the PlayStation Experience 2016 show last week (had it on while I was grinding on Dragon Quest  ) and the difference between Sony now and Sony then is like night and day.

I'd be very interested to know sales data for Playstation and how many out there are literally only used to play FIFA, COD, Minecraft, Fortnite, maybe AC at a push. 

With gaming getting cheaper and prices being cut so soon after release maybe that's having an impact on initial sales as well. I know Concrete Genie is a budget title but it'll be a tenner in a couple of months and people (myself included) have just been trained to wait. Iwata even talked about the reason first party Nintendo games don't go on sale until years later is because they have data that said people just wait, instead of picking it up at release. Case in point, I want to play Control on Xbox but I'm in no great hurry so I'll wait a few months when it's half price. Luigi's Mansion 3 though, day 1, because I may as well.

Edited October 14, 2019 by Ronnie

[Dcubed]

1 hour ago, Ronnie said:

I downloaded that episode, not listened yet. It's a good point, they could have waited until a gap in the release schedule, especially as it wasn't exactly time sensitive news.

Maybe Sony has data that says the majority of PS4 owners out there are only interested in the big AAA games releases, but still, why settle for that, grow your market. And maybe they're only interested because that's the only thing that gets promoted.

Well, the evidence we have suggests that this is indeed Sony’s attitude...

 

Hopefully YL&TIL did much better digitally...

[Ronnie]

3 minutes ago, Dcubed said:

Well, the evidence we have suggests that this is indeed Sony’s attitude...

I think there's a difference between hardcore gamers and gamers who are only interested in AAAs though. I'd consider myself a hardcore gamer but I love Hollow Knight and Darkest Dungeon just as much as I loved God of War and Red Dead 2.

Obviously play to your strengths, if Playstation is known for their big blockbuster exclusives then push that, but you can still do that and not send another of your games Concrete Genie out to die.

[Hero-of-Time]

2 hours ago, Happenstance said:

We’ve all grown older and things change. It can’t all be Asteroids, Space Invaders and Adventure anymore.

Just so you know, I wasn't ignoring the comment you made. I've just been trying to get my head around what you mean when you said this in relation to what I brought up. I'm still a little baffled.  

Are you saying that as we get older our quality standards drop for games? I'm 37 years old and I know that isn't the case for me. If anything, I've become more wary about what's on the market, with things like shady practices going on and half working games being released getting a lot of my attention. Yes, things change but in the games industry it feels like a lot of things are changing for the worse. 

[Happenstance]

No, what I meant was that maybe what gaming is/is becoming is passing us by. We were the mainstream market once and I just mean that things change. What we want isn’t what they want and the same thing will happen to them.

[Hero-of-Time]

Ah, so basically this.

 

[S.C.G]

It's just a shame that what a lot of mainstream gamers might think they want, is just the market leaders dictating to them, telling them what they want and then the mainstream gamers just seem to gladly go along with it, despite the fact that most of these games seem to be getting worse with each iteration.

But if all of these broken games with content missing, obscene gambling mechanics and in some cases just being devoid of any fun at all are what they really want then, who am I to try and stop them from buying these titles, just so long as they're happy with the way things are going... I mean they're paying for a lot of this rubbish so... I don't know what to say any more.

Now, of course a lot of these games aren't for me, I accept that and as Hero said in another thread recently, even though the new Fifa game is broken beyond belief, it's still fun for anyone who enjoys Football games, so I suppose Call of Duty still has at least some of what makes the game fun for people who still buy the games? And... it must be the same for the new Ghost Recon game but really... from the footage in the latest video Jim did on it, I couldn't see anything which resembled Ghost Recon in that game, it just looked like another trashy open-world bore-fest with absolutely zero redeeming features and a broken always-online mode... I just don't get it.

So in conclusion... yes, Simpson's "I used to be with "it" " clip is very appropriate right now.

It doesn't make it any less depressing though and I'll continue to buy games like Yooka-Laylee and Concrete Genie even at a time when I can't really afford to, rather than spend a single penny on any of these piles of trash which qualify for mainstream gaming these days... if there are people who enjoy them then, that's great I guess but after seeing so many different generations of games come and go, surely a lot of us hope for something a lot better for the future of gaming in general?

Ultimately, if the games industry just veers off in a direction which I don't want to be a part of I'll just be grateful for the decent retro games I do have and that I should be able to play no matter what happens to gaming but I would still like there to be an industry left in another five to ten years, if things carry on as they are though I do wonder if there will be that many game studios left in the future if they just suddenly become "not-financially viable" for whatever reason.

[/Rant] Grumble grumble...

(I should go and play some games instead of moaning about the ones I don't want to play, it's my own fault that I don't get enough games played as it is)

[Goafer]

I wouldn't say Concrete Genie was sent out to die at all. I've been seeing adverts for it in my Facebook and Instagram feeds pretty consistently for a few weeks now. Sure, it's not Red Dead levels of promotion, but you'd have to be pretty naïve to think a relatively niche game would get anywhere near as much promotion as a highly anticipated AAA game.

[bob]

I don't know why you're all whining about there not being enough games that cater to your needs while you all have backlogs a mile long.

[Glen-i]

12 minutes ago, bob said:

I don't know why you're all whining about there not being enough games that cater to your needs while you all have backlogs a mile long.

I don't, I've literally finished every game I own on Switch and 3DS.

Plus side of having low disposable income, I guess.

[Hero-of-Time]

2 minutes ago, bob said:

I don't know why you're all whining about there not being enough games that cater to your needs while you all have backlogs a mile long.
 

For me it's not about my needs not getting catered for, more the fact that certain practices are starting to seep into games and genres that I do care about. Also, if certain genres fail to do well then developers will simply stop making those types of games and instead chase what the mainstream market is buying. It's already happening in the AAA space ( as seen with most games becoming open world ) and the indie scene is also starting to suffer now.

There was an article published the other week on how indie developers are struggling due to the race to the bottom pricing model and their games not doing well purely because there are no addictive gameplay features (like the gacha mobile games) in them. It's getting to the point where game creators can't actually make the games they want to make.

13 minutes ago, Goafer said:

I wouldn't say Concrete Genie was sent out to die at all. I've been seeing adverts for it in my Facebook and Instagram feeds pretty consistently for a few weeks now. Sure, it's not Red Dead levels of promotion, but you'd have to be pretty naïve to think a relatively niche game would get anywhere near as much promotion as a highly anticipated AAA game.

I actually seen an advert for it pop up while looking on a Ni No Kuni wiki/guide earlier today. Saying that, there's no denying that Sony didn't give it a decent push. Hell, the thing wasn't even featured on the latest State of Play, a week before the game launched. Many eyes were on that purely for the Last of Us 2. Surely it would have made sense to stick a launch trailer during the show?

[MindFreak]

But haven't we said this for like, 15 years? And there are still great games released alongside those AAAAAAA games. The industry needs the big sellers to make a profit so they can make what they want. 

[Hero-of-Time]

Just now, MindFreak said:

But haven't we said this for like, 15 years? And there are still great games released alongside those AAAAAAA games. The industry needs the big sellers to make a profit so they can make what they want. 

Just look at the big 3 though- EA, Activision and Ubisoft. These 3 companies are raking in the money but it's not exactly going into new and exciting projects, if anything they've actually reduced the creativity and relied on what is safe.

All 3 of these used to have their well known games, which helped create new IPs and smaller games. This just doesn't happen as much, if at all, despite them making record profits. EA relies MASSIVELY on the microtransactions in FIFA, Activision are the same with both Call of Duty and Overwatch, Ubisoft have slowly turned into a company who are only interested in making GaaS games. Not to mention that some of these publishers are also kicking their staff to the curb even though they are rolling in money but that's another conversation entirely.

Basically, I'm an old git who longs for the simple/glory days of console gaming. Like Sam, at least I have a retro collection I can always dig into.