Ville Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 @Hamishmash So you're basically saying that just because sexism towards women is more explicit, men should just shut up about their "petty" little experiences? : o Like wtf, man...I don't know if you realise it, but you're being sexist yourself, towards your own gender no less... >_> Sexism towards males is trivial? Yeah, sure...so women are harassed and have to fear about rape? It's a good thing this rape hysteria doesn't concern men in any way, like for example labelling all men as filthy, potential rapists. Makes you feel that you cannot even look at women, because, you know, you might accidentally rape them or something. Even in the UK law, "rape" is only something that can be done with a penis, so legally speaking, women can't even rape! Same thing with pedophilia hysteria: man + child = automatic recipe for disaster. So if women have to fear, men are being told more or less indirectly that they're disgusting, potential sexual predators. Personally, I'm so full of this bullshit. All my life, I've respected women and men, yet this is what I get? Being told my gender is and has always been awful, and that my experiences and feelings as a man are not worth anything in comparison to the hardships women go through. Sorry but no, not taking this shit anymore... More sexism? How about the military, in Finland it's the guys who are forced to serve / do civil service / go to jail. Women? They don't have to do anything. Child custody cases? Usually women who win those, because you know, mother > father. And then you get to pay child support while the mother has the child...Also, how about women getting lighter sentences than men in general (with male judges)? University "gender studies", which basically just focus on feminist theories and women? : o And so forth... @Eenuh that's horrible to hear, your experience. Yeah, maybe the website is just a sort of common venting place for women. I don't have a problem with that, I mean it only makes sense women and men focus on their own issues. The thing that bothers me is just the overall atmosphere regarding sexism and gender issues; it's very female-centric. Maybe this is men's fault for not being so active yet, but still, it paints a really one-sided picture of all the gender issues. Some feminists even say that they are for "equality", which is ridiculous, since they're obviously focusing on just women's issues. For real equality, we have to have both sides represented. So yes, maybe this is a call for men to be more active and let their side, feelings and experiences be known as well. Otherwise, we're going to continue having one-sided, overly generalizing and men-bashing gender discourse...
Diageo Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 Saying that men shouldn't be concerned about sexism because women have it worse is just ridiculous. That's exactly like when stupid people say, "You're depressed, so what, there's people in Africa dying right now." There are websites devoted to breast cancer that assume only females have the problem, because so does society, and that's why men have a higher mortality rate than women for it. And people are complaining and I think it's fair. There are websites that assume that heart disease only happens to men, because so does society, and many people have complained about it too, and that's also fair. You wouldn't tell a woman, don't complain about sexism in Europe because if you were to live one day in Iraq/China/Korea/whatever you would know what sexism is. We have a right to fight this.
Daft Posted October 6, 2012 Author Posted October 6, 2012 @Eenuh I don't think it's about being offended, I wasn't and I don't think many people are by the website. It's essentially about equality and just because sexism against women is much more explicit doesn't excuse it when it happening to men, which it does. The comparison to a Straight Pride march is exactly the same ignorant sentiment that this site implies. Heteronormativity is what we expect, it doesn't need representing because it is normative. Sexism, however, shouldn't be normative for either sex. It would be like saying Gay Pride is okay, but lesbians shouldn't be included because that's just a phase/not real/awesome/any plethora of crap excuses, so we should just marginalise them.
Hamishmash Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) I just think that the sexism against women in all areas of life massively outweighs any sexism against men and if we are to have true equality, sexism against women is by far the more urgent issue that needs to be addressed. Men's rights are a just cause but it is minor compared to the long, worldwide history of sexism against women. So maybe for the last few decades women can now talk back, have their own opinions, have the freedom to be arseholes and sexist. Well fair enough, after 250,000 years. I'm not talking about individual, specific cases, because they are in many ways irrelevent. You get idiots and racists and sexists and bigots in all genders. I'm talking about the culture. The culture we live in which says that if a man sleeps around he's a player, if a woman sleeps around she's a slut. The culture where if a male celebrity is photographed not smiling, no comment is made, but if a female celebrity is photographed not smiling she's characterised as a bitch or depressed or smug or whatever by the media. The fact women still don't receive equal pay, or are not hired if they're at an age they're likely to want children. The fact women in political power is a rarity. The way women are written in movies and tv shows, or depicted in revolting game designs like in Arkham City. The culture where this imbalance is ok: There are millions of cases of men being mistreated by women, being killed or raped by women, being made fun of because of their gender. But it's not as much of a social problem in our society, it doesn't have that twisted history that still effects women today. Women are bred to respect men in a way that men totally aren't. I respect you all, but just because a website focussing on the sexism against women... focusses on the sexism against women... that does not make it sexist. And it's frustrating that any debate about sexism or racism or whatever, has to have the privileged in the discussion try and gain discrimination points. I'm privileged as fuck, I've had people make assumptions about me because of my gender but I understand that the plight of women is so much greater. Edited October 6, 2012 by Hamishmash
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 To those who think male sexism isn't really a problem or is "trivial" at best, I highly recommend you actually read up on it. There's a YouTuber by the name of GirlWritesWhat who has some great videos on the topic, and I'd particularly recommend as a good starting point. Male sexism is so ingrained in our culture that we tend to think "that's just the way it is", and that's utterly horrible. All sexism is.
Mr-Paul Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 The culture where this imbalance is ok: It's a men's mag. It's not going to sell with a picture of James Corden naked on the front. Just like an issue of Cosmo would sell with a picture of David Beckham naked, but wouldn't with a naked Lana Del Rey. Different things for different audiences.
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 @Hamishmash, sexism has been a plague on both genders for millennia, and it's only recently that we've started opening our eyes to that fact. The continued dismissal of male sexism as a serious problem only perpetuates the myth that women are the only ones negatively affected by the gender roles of old.
Beast Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 It's stuff like this that make "people don't take my opinion on shoes seriously" seem so pathetic, no offence. I think if many of the men who have experienced so called "male sexism" could live 1 day in the life of your average woman, they'd change their opinion. And that's in our supposedly more civilised countries. Don't take this the wrong way but this is exactly the type of crap I hate. It's not the fact of them taking my opinion on shoes seriously at all, it's them thinking that I can't do my job or work in retail or that I don't/shouldn't know anything about shoes or handbags and whatnot because I'm a guy. It's even worse when you're a straight guy but that's irrelevant to the subject at hand. Whether you think it's pathetic or not is irrelevant as well and so is the whole "Walk a mile in the average woman's shoes" argument too. Men do have it just as bad as women, especially in this day and age. The major thing being custody cases as, again, Iun and I have pointed out and given great examples. Women don't face such sexism as they used to but there's no denying sexism still happens and is a serious issue on both parts. I just hate it when people say "It's more important that women let their voices be heard because it mainly happens to them." Bollocks! If anything, both voices need to be heard. The fact that people even think that one gender is more important is pathetic. No matter how minor or major it is, sexism happens to both genders. So you think that people automatically assuming you would be rubbish at your job, and every day having to prove that you are good at your job, yet being told that you must be weird for that very reason, is pathetic? Way to reinforce the very view that people have been saying is wrong, which you've argued against. Come on @Animal, stop being pathetic and man the fuck up. I know right! :p I don't complain or moan or gripe about it at work because I know how to do my job, act professional and give out correct advice and half of the time, I end up knowing better than they do about caring for shoes anyway but it's very annoying and, although Hamish don't think it's serious, it is and I'd say this for the opposite sex too. There have been plenty of women who get told by men that they can't take their advice on technology seriously but I've not seen Hamish point out that that's pathetic as well (because it obviously is). Some of the cases I've pointed out are minor but have you seen some of the ones on the website? A lot of them are quite minor too but it might be major to the person writing it. Being told how I can't do my job properly and can't give out the right advice because I'm a man is a bit major to me. We're led to believe we all should be treated as equals and such and I agree that we should but I'm not being treated like that and I'm sure many other men aren't too. Why shouldn't I be able to know about high-heels? Why shouldn't a girl know more about technology than a boy? Why can't a girl like video games just as much as a boy? Why can't a boy work as a hairdresser or a nail technician without getting dodgy looks? Yes, females mostly do them but males can too, whatever their sexuality (which is, again, another subject). Why can't a woman work as a mechanic without blokes thinking they know nothing about motors? All of these can be minor as well as major but they all have one thing in common: They're sexist and whether you think it's ridiculous or not doesn't come into it because you may find something offensive that I don't and vice versa. Unfortunately I can only thank your post once Animal. Hamish your view on there not really being male sexism is backwards, and exactly the point people have been making in terms of men having to take such comments 'like a man'. I 100% agree with this. Even making that comment is sexist. Why should I have to take those sexist comments 'like a man'. If I have to take sexist comments 'like a man', so should women in that case. I'm not saying sexism against men doesn't happen by the way. I just think being all offended by that website and throwing a fit about it isn't really going to help anyone. If you experience sexism, post it on the website. Or create your own website aimed at men or at all genders. I don't think the makers of the website meant to offend or purposefully exclude anyone. It's just that generally, women will have to deal with sexism on a regular basis, sometimes on a more serious level than whether you're adequate enough for your job or not. I mean even I deal with that, people asking if they can speak to a man because they don't trust that I as a woman can give them proper technical support. So yeah, the website is just there to vent some frustrations, because constant sexism can start wearing you down. And it is that sort of stuff that can lead to women saying things like "All men are pigs." etc. Whilst that's true, nobody breaches the subject on men. I deal with it weekly. I get told I can't do this because I'm a man. Before, I was told I can't apply for jobs because I'm male even though I could do it. There's been just as serious cases towards men than women, the main one being (and I can't stress it enough) custody cases. Men lose a lot of the time because "kids need their mothers". Kids need their fathers too but that doesn't come into the equation a lot of the time. Emotionally. "I am the only person who will ever truly love you." "No-one in your life will love you as much as I do" "You can never, ever know love like the love I have for you. Forget other people, they are just liars." Had that drummed in for about 14 years. A bit of an emotional cripple as a result. Ah, sorry to hear that, dude! @Hamishmash So you're basically saying that just because sexism towards women is more explicit, men should just shut up about their "petty" little experiences? : o Like wtf, man...I don't know if you realise it, but you're being sexist yourself, towards your own gender no less... >_> Sexism towards males is trivial? Yeah, sure...so women are harassed and have to fear about rape? It's a good thing this rape hysteria doesn't concern men in any way, like for example labelling all men as filthy, potential rapists. Makes you feel that you cannot even look at women, because, you know, you might accidentally rape them or something. Even in the UK law, "rape" is only something that can be done with a penis, so legally speaking, women can't even rape! Same thing with pedophilia hysteria: man + child = automatic recipe for disaster. So if women have to fear, men are being told more or less indirectly that they're disgusting, potential sexual predators. Personally, I'm so full of this bullshit. All my life, I've respected women and men, yet this is what I get? Being told my gender is and has always been awful, and that my experiences and feelings as a man are not worth anything in comparison to the hardships women go through. Sorry but no, not taking this shit anymore... More sexism? How about the military, in Finland it's the guys who are forced to serve / do civil service / go to jail. Women? They don't have to do anything. Child custody cases? Usually women who win those, because you know, mother > father. And then you get to pay child support while the mother has the child...Also, how about women getting lighter sentences than men in general (with male judges)? University "gender studies", which basically just focus on feminist theories and women? : o And so forth... @Eenuh that's horrible to hear, your experience. Yeah, maybe the website is just a sort of common venting place for women. I don't have a problem with that, I mean it only makes sense women and men focus on their own issues. The thing that bothers me is just the overall atmosphere regarding sexism and gender issues; it's very female-centric. Maybe this is men's fault for not being so active yet, but still, it paints a really one-sided picture of all the gender issues. Some feminists even say that they are for "equality", which is ridiculous, since they're obviously focusing on just women's issues. For real equality, we have to have both sides represented. So yes, maybe this is a call for men to be more active and let their side, feelings and experiences be known as well. Otherwise, we're going to continue having one-sided, overly generalizing and men-bashing gender discourse... I 100% agree with this post. I think men really should start to make their voices heard too. With men or women saying "it's not as important for men because women face it more" is stupid and ignorant to me. It happens to both and I believe both voices need to be heard EQUALLY. Saying that men shouldn't be concerned about sexism because women have it worse is just ridiculous. That's exactly like when stupid people say, "You're depressed, so what, there's people in Africa dying right now." There are websites devoted to breast cancer that assume only females have the problem, because so does society, and that's why men have a higher mortality rate than women for it. And people are complaining and I think it's fair. There are websites that assume that heart disease only happens to men, because so does society, and many people have complained about it too, and that's also fair. You wouldn't tell a woman, don't complain about sexism in Europe because if you were to live one day in Iraq/China/Korea/whatever you would know what sexism is. We have a right to fight this. I agree with this too. I don't like it when people use that 'depressed' line either, it irritates me. It's not like you'll think of that and then everything's all rosy again. You're completely right in what you say. I think men should fight it and men should be heard just as much as women. @Eenuh I don't think it's about being offended, I wasn't and I don't think many people are by the website. It's essentially about equality and just because sexism against women is much more explicit doesn't excuse it when it happening to men, which it does. The comparison to a Straight Pride march is exactly the same ignorant sentiment that this site implies. Heteronormativity is what we expect, it doesn't need representing because it is normative. Sexism, however, shouldn't be normative for either sex. It would be like saying Gay Pride is okay, but lesbians shouldn't be included because that's just a phase/not real/awesome/any plethora of crap excuses, so we should just marginalise them. I'm not really offended by the site a lot but I just hate how it automatically assumes sexism only happens to women (that's the vibe I got from it anyway since it was only for women). If the makers of the site actually wanted to make a difference to sexism, they would open it to both genders. I've actually made a comment on the site and e-mailed the owner (who I presume is Laura) to open it to both genders if she properly wants to fight it.
Ville Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 sexism has been a plague on both genders for millennia, and it's only recently that we've started opening our eyes to that fact. The continued dismissal of male sexism as a serious problem only perpetuates the myth that women are the only ones negatively affected by the gender roles of old. Well put. @Hamishmash You referring to Catwoman being called "a bitch" by the enemies in Arkham City? I don't think this is a valid argument at all. 1) It's a game about criminals and psychopaths, not your grandma's tea party, so harsh language is to be expected. 2) Most of the villains and their henchmen are men, so when they suddenly face a female opponent, the use of gendered insults like this is more than appropriate. Would work in an opposite situation as well: for example Batman facing a league of female-only villains. You'd expect a lot of gender-based insults in that case as well... Moreover, you're again concentrating on just women. You don't think the game is at all sexist towards men? The majority of the criminals and psychopaths just so happen to be...men. Even Batman is a man, and he's showcasing the stereotypically negative masculine characteristics, i.e. being cold and ruthless, beating people up just like that. Then you have villains like the Joker, who have no emotionally caring dimension at all. Curiously enough, he's paired up with Harley Quinn, who despite being a psycho herself, does show capability for grief and lamentation. Not the Joker, however, he can torture / blow up people just like that with no remorse whatsoever. Typical man behaviour, eh?
The Peeps Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 I have no problem with a website dedicated to sharing stories about sexism experienced by women but I think the title of the website is misleading. The phrase 'everyday sexism' should not refer to just one sex. Sexism is not a woman only thing and that's just a fact. I do think women have it worse with sexism but to completely negate any sexism experienced by men is just wrong.
Sheikah Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 I'm not saying sexism against men doesn't happen by the way. I just think being all offended by that website and throwing a fit about it isn't really going to help anyone. If you experience sexism, post it on the website. Or create your own website aimed at men or at all genders. I don't think the makers of the website meant to offend or purposefully exclude anyone. It's just that generally, women will have to deal with sexism on a regular basis, sometimes on a more serious level than whether you're adequate enough for your job or not. I mean even I deal with that, people asking if they can speak to a man because they don't trust that I as a woman can give them proper technical support. So yeah, the website is just there to vent some frustrations, because constant sexism can start wearing you down. And it is that sort of stuff that can lead to women saying things like "All men are pigs." etc. Eenuh, sexism against men can be just as bad and there is no reason why anyone should try to rationalise one form being worse than another as you are doing here. @Eenuh I don't think it's about being offended, I wasn't and I don't think many people are by the website. It's essentially about equality and just because sexism against women is much more explicit doesn't excuse it when it happening to men, which it does. The comparison to a Straight Pride march is exactly the same ignorant sentiment that this site implies. Heteronormativity is what we expect, it doesn't need representing because it is normative. Sexism, however, shouldn't be normative for either sex. It would be like saying Gay Pride is okay, but lesbians shouldn't be included because that's just a phase/not real/awesome/any plethora of crap excuses, so we should just marginalise them. This is exactly the point, well put.
jayseven Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 Sexism against men can be just as bad, but in most instances it isn't. I think it's kind of belittling to fight this hard for men to be seen as equally put-down. It's just not true. Just about everyone in this thread is saying "It happens! Not to me, but it certainly happens!" I don't see the need for men to be so determined to have their fair share of whining. I mentioned yesterday that my experience of 'sexism' is that people assume I'm doing a woman's job -- now, that's sexist to women, because the implication in what I've experienced is "you are doing a lesser job, and a less important job." Aligning that to women means that most people (and this is including women who have said this sort of stuff to me) think women don't do the trickier jobs. Again, this is Australia, where it's acceptible to say wogs and lebs (but not aboriginies/ayer's rock). To reiterate; this isn't really being discriminated because I'm male, rather just being made to feel uneasy due to preconceived notions of gender roles. This is in no way the same thing as enduring wolf-whistles, groping, or anything Eenuh's mentioned. One thing though, @Hamishmash RE: the image of women and the use of sex to sell; that's kind of entangled with this but I think it's a separate issue. The role of sexuality is different for women and men (leaving aside the LGBTWFOFNGTJQAWPQM spectrum for now), and the role of perception and image is also different, and I don't really know how far into the tabula rasa we really have to take our magic markers to what may kind of be default elements of women/men. I'm going all wordy here because it's just not a straightforward topic. Essentially I agree with you sexism towards women is more occurant, and is worse to deal with than the potential sexism that men somewhere experience. The role of women in the media is a massive sprawling topic for elsewhere.
Aimless Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 Well, I'm glad that rather than anyone talking about the horrible experiences recounted on the site we could instead spend several pages complaining that its name isn't PC enough. Also, I'll just leave this here.
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 Sexism against men can be just as bad' date=' but in most instances it isn't. I think it's kind of belittling to fight this hard for men to be seen as equally put-down. It's just not true. Just about everyone in this thread is saying "It happens! Not [i']to me[/i], but it certainly happens!" I don't see the need for men to be so determined to have their fair share of whining. I mentioned yesterday that my experience of 'sexism' is that people assume I'm doing a woman's job -- now, that's sexist to women, because the implication in what I've experienced is "you are doing a lesser job, and a less important job." Aligning that to women means that most people (and this is including women who have said this sort of stuff to me) think women don't do the trickier jobs. Again, this is Australia, where it's acceptible to say wogs and lebs (but not aboriginies/ayer's rock). To reiterate; this isn't really being discriminated because I'm male, rather just being made to feel uneasy due to preconceived notions of gender roles. This is in no way the same thing as enduring wolf-whistles, groping, or anything Eenuh's mentioned. The problem goes much deeper than that.
Diageo Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 I don't care who has it worse. That is irrelevant. All injustices should be corrected. Sexism, discrimination and prejudice should be fought against, no matter how mild, and for all parties affected. This isn't a competition about who has the most hurdles to climb. It's about not disregarding victims because they are not at the lowest end of the spectrum. That site, while for a good cause, is perpetuating a stereotype that women are the only ones afflicted by sexism with the title they used. There is no hate for the website, it was probably unknown to the person that such a hypocrisy occurred. There is no need to be aggressive. A calm email to the owner stating that a further specification of the site name or broadening the scope of the audience would fix this issue is all that is needed.
Jonnas Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 Just about everyone in this thread is saying "It happens! Not to me' date=' but it certainly happens!"[/quote'] That's certainly the biggest issue I've been having with this thread. Sure, fighting for equality and calling out on sexism (of both sides of the spectrum) is good and all, but let's be responsible about it, otherwise we're nothing but strawmen in the debate. Like Diageo said, the fact that this website dedicated to sexist stories affecting women is inadvertently worded in a way that sounds hypocritical is, well, incredibly minor. So, instead of posting "I've come across a sexist website that doesn't take into account sexism against men" (which is inflammatory, and likely untrue), post an actual sexist event that happened with you. If you want to make a point, you show evidence.
Fierce_LiNk Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 So, instead of posting "I've come across a sexist website that doesn't take into account sexism against men" (which is inflammatory, and likely untrue), post an actual sexist event that happened with you. If you want to make a point, you show evidence. I'm going to answer this. It might get the thread on the right track. Although, I'm not saying it was on the wrong track... *gets shot by a sniper* Although, it's not what you're looking for. I'm a primary school teacher, but I have some experience teaching in secondary, too. Before I took on this job, I was expecting quite a bit of grief about me being a male in what is said to be a female orientated environment. In fact, I've been in the Nursery quite often and have helped out. Parents come in and don't seem to have any issues with it. Nobody has ever mentioned it, nothing has been said to me. Secondary on the other hand has felt a bit odd at times. In both of my placements, I was the only male in a department of at least 5 other people. At times, I did feel like an outcast, but I can't even say for certain if that was down to me being a male, or me being a trainee, or me being naive at the time or young or new. They were quite miserable. So, in these instances, I was expecting some kind of sexism, particularly in the primary setting. But, nothing. A nice unexpected surprise. I've been very fortunate in that case. As for sexism itself, I find it sad that this is still a problem, either with males or females. I feel nothing but pity for those that are guilty of it.
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 I'd hardly call it inflammatory, though. It was merely meant (on my part, at least) as a lighthearted poke at the fact that the site does give off an unfortunate impression about sexism. I completely agree that it's a minor thing. It's merely a symptom of the real problem.
ReZourceman Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 Even here I still have to deal with stuff like this. The amount of times I've been honked or "whooped" at by simply standing on the side of the road waiting for Jim to pick me up, it's amazing. Surely if you tell him you don't like it, Jim would stop.
dwarf Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 (edited) This discussion really only blossomed because of a titling mishap, and I think Diageo wrapped the issue up well. I don't however think it's irrelevant to highlight the fact that women tend to face the annoyances and evils of sexism far more frequently in daily life. Case studies like Gabby Logan's recent Sexism in Football documentary are right to view sexism from a female angle, for example. I also agree with the point made earlier that we should raise consciousness on sexism cases in which men are targeted, or for which men readily and evidently appoint themselves as targets, because the video Dannyboy posted about the disposable male made me realise (/reawakened my awareness) the very serious implications of sustaining such strong beliefs. I hasten to add though that the woman was wayward in her condemnation of feminism as a whole, her grief should be directed at bad feminism. Edited October 6, 2012 by dwarf
Dannyboy-the-Dane Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 I hasten to add though that the woman was wayward in her condemnation of feminism as a whole, her grief should be directed at bad feminism. Having watched more of her videos, I believe the reason she targets feminism as a whole is that she views the theoretical grounds for feminism as inherently flawed and inadequate in its description of gender issues.
Beast Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 I just think that the sexism against women in all areas of life massively outweighs any sexism against men and if we are to have true equality, sexism against women is by far the more urgent issue that needs to be addressed. But for actual true equality, both sexes should be treated as the urgent issue. Like with racism, you wouldn't deal with just one race if they got it in the neck more than another. It's like me saying "We should deal with racism against black people more than white people". No. We should deal with both equally because it happens to both and it should stop full stop. I believe, if you want equality, you deal with the problem equally! Men's rights are a just cause but it is minor compared to the long, worldwide history of sexism against women. So maybe for the last few decades women can now talk back, have their own opinions, have the freedom to be arseholes and sexist. Well fair enough, after 250,000 years. I disagree with this again. Women should fight back, yes, but so should men. Again, I bring my race argument into this. Black people have had a history of being treated negatively. Only recently have they been treated as equals but, after years and years of racism, does that mean black people have the right to be racist arseholes to white people? I guess so because, well, fair enough after so many years, right?... I'm not talking about individual, specific cases, because they are in many ways irrelevent. You get idiots and racists and sexists and bigots in all genders. I'm talking about the culture. The culture we live in which says that if a man sleeps around he's a player, if a woman sleeps around she's a slut. The culture where if a male celebrity is photographed not smiling, no comment is made, but if a female celebrity is photographed not smiling she's characterised as a bitch or depressed or smug or whatever by the media. The fact women still don't receive equal pay, or are not hired if they're at an age they're likely to want children. The fact women in political power is a rarity. The way women are written in movies and tv shows, or depicted in revolting game designs like in Arkham City. The culture where this imbalance is ok: Whilst that's true, men who do it are called players by men. Women who do it are also cool with it by other women too. Either men or women who sleep around do get labelled as having no self-respect or whatever. Whilst I agree that women do get called sluts or skanks, men get judged just as much by women. The photograph thing is something you'd see in a celebrity magazine as well as newspapers but this happens to men too, not just women. As for the equal pay thing, I've not experienced that but I've heard of some cases and I've not heard about the age thing being exclusive to women, I've heard this for men too. Women in politics is a rarity, I'll give you that one. I disagree with women being depicted horribly though, not all of them are like that. Lara Croft is known to dress sexily but she's also known as a heroine and kind of a video game icon. Also, as for that magazine, if you're going to do that, at least show the opposite. ...and there's more examples where that came from too! (I just can’t be arsed to hunt the others down because I’m tired! :p) I don’t mind it but you say this like the women in the photos have no choice but they do. They choose this! Some even think it’s empowering and I think it is, just like how men do it too. Why should you be ashamed of your body if you’re proud of it? Good for them! There are millions of cases of men being mistreated by women, being killed or raped by women, being made fun of because of their gender. But it's not as much of a social problem in our society, it doesn't have that twisted history that still effects women today. Women are bred to respect men in a way that men totally aren't. It should be a problem though because it is a problem and one that needs to be addressed and fixed. Sexism in itself is a problem and only helping one gender is totally unfair. Whilst women do have a history of being treated differently, it’s becoming a problem for men too and it has been a problem for men in the past. As I said, to properly defeat sexism, you have to address the issues on both sides, not just one, otherwise you’re just adding flames by addressing only one. I respect you all, but just because a website focussing on the sexism against women... focusses on the sexism against women... that does not make it sexist. And it's frustrating that any debate about sexism or racism or whatever, has to have the privileged in the discussion try and gain discrimination points. I'm privileged as fuck, I've had people make assumptions about me because of my gender but I understand that the plight of women is so much greater. But it kind of is. It’s sexist for not including men but it’s more the point that these makers obviously want to banish sexism but are not addressing the issues fully. If I was in charge of that site, I’d make it open to both sexes so both sexes can see the troubles of daily/weekly/monthly sexism that the other has to face, that way, they can read the problems. As I said, just like with racism with dealing with all sides, sexism should be dealt with the same way. The website is doing a great thing but it needs to be open to both. I’m happy somebody made the site and wants to make a difference, I am, but it just seems like they don’t want to fully address the issue. It’s like wanting to combat racism but only fighting for one race or fighting against gay hate but only fighting it for male gays, it just doesn’t work and isn’t right. To properly combat these things, all aspects and sides need to be heard! I don't care who has it worse. That is irrelevant. All injustices should be corrected. Sexism, discrimination and prejudice should be fought against, no matter how mild, and for all parties affected. This isn't a competition about who has the most hurdles to climb. It's about not disregarding victims because they are not at the lowest end of the spectrum. That site, while for a good cause, is perpetuating a stereotype that women are the only ones afflicted by sexism with the title they used. There is no hate for the website, it was probably unknown to the person that such a hypocrisy occurred. There is no need to be aggressive. A calm email to the owner stating that a further specification of the site name or broadening the scope of the audience would fix this issue is all that is needed. Basically what I was about to say. I've genuinely commented and e-mailed her that it should be open to both sexes to truly fight sexism and have even given examples of what I faced. I really do think, to all the men on here, if you want to make a difference, you should e-mail this lady and make the point because it is a valid one. I will say this, this is a very interesting thread and an interesting discussion!
Cube Posted October 6, 2012 Posted October 6, 2012 Just about everyone in this thread is saying "It happens! Not to me' date=' but it certainly happens!"[/quote'] One pretty common one is being made fun of because you don't like watching a bunch of men in shorts running around a field.
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