Razz Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 So with this being in the news at the moment due to the government's current consultation on its introduction, I thought it'd be interesting to have a bit of a debate on it, and to see what everyone thinks. Obviously a lot/most of the press surrounding this has been on those against the idea such as CoE's John Sentamu and the Catholic Church's Keith O'Brien's somewhat scathing attacks. What does the word marriage mean to you? What do you think about it being redifined? I'm withholding my opinion for now, but please do share your thoughts.
Happenstance Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Personally I have absolutely no problem with same sex marriages and have always disliked the fact that the Church has had way too much of a say in what should and shouldnt be allowed.
Oxigen_Waste Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 If anyone anywhere can explain to me how anyone is hurt by same sex marriages, I'll be happy to understand and respect naysayers. It's idiotic to be against something that hurts absolutely no one in any single way.
Aneres11 Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Yeah I'm with the above 2 posts. There is nothing, in my eyes, 'wrong' with same sex marriage. It is simply 2 people who want to be bound by marriage as a way to show their love and devotion to one another. Just because it's 2 guys or 2 girls shouldn't make a difference. As a gay guy I personally have never thought about getting married myself - but you've gotta meet someone first, right?! But if I was in a steady, stable relationship with someone who I loved and wanted to spend the rest of my life with and they felt the same back, then why the hell not. Equal rights an all that.
Daft Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 I think the Kardashians destroyed any argument to do with 'the gays' destroying the sacred institute of marriage.
Coolness Bears Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 I AM AGAINST ALL KINDS OF MARRIAGE. Unless it's penguins. Penguins getting married are cute. You can put them in little tophats... ...Is this animal cruelty? :p I hope not. Goddammit I love penguins.
Ashley Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 I AM AGAINST ALL KINDS OF MARRIAGE. Unless it's penguins. Penguins getting married are cute. You can put them in little tophats... ...Is this animal cruelty? :p I hope not. Goddammit I love penguins. I probably have a better contribution towards this thread inside me somewhere but that'll do for now.
Diageo Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Are there any actual benefits to marriage? I haven't heard any good reasons to get married in general. Regarding same sex marriage. Marriage has been changing constantly. Before you couldn't get divorced, you couldn't marry mixed race. But they changed that. Marriage is not set in stone. Bleh, I don't care...
Iun Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Never had a problem with same sex marriage. And also fully support them adopting. Let's face it: a couple who can't naturally have children are likely to provide a more loving environment than people who take it for granted that they can have children whenever they want. Also: homosexuality is genetic, which means its a natural disposition rather than an environmental one. Finally: Cortez in ME 3 was married to man, and Shepard was okay with it. If its good enough for Shepard, it's good enough for me. Edited March 14, 2012 by Iun
Diageo Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Homosexuality is genetic? Doesn't seem like a trait that would propagate well.
Aimless Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 I think the Kardashians destroyed any argument to do with 'the gays' destroying the sacred institute of marriage. It's great not really knowing who the Kardashians are. Any time someone references them I just interpret it in the context of Cardassians. As for the topic at hand: sure, why not? Don't civil partnerships already carry the same rights as marriage? If so this is more a question of religions being behind the times. They'll need to catch up at some point so we might as well get the ball rolling.
Cube Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Are there any actual benefits to marriage? I haven't heard any good reasons to get married in general. Essentially, it's putting your relationship into writing, expressing your intention to everyone that you with to remain with only* that person. *Unless you're a polygamist.
Ashley Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Are there any actual benefits to marriage? I haven't heard any good reasons to get married in general. Regarding same sex marriage. Marriage has been changing constantly. Before you couldn't get divorced, you couldn't marry mixed race. But they changed that. Marriage is not set in stone. Bleh, I don't care... People buy you gifts. Plus in America there's tax benefits. Not sure about here because apparently I know more about the American tax system than the one that actually effects me.
Hamishmash Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 I do intend to marry a man one day. Probably my long term boyfriend. It seems to be the way things are heading. And one day we may like to have children. And I can't see any down side with the law providing that right. I know some people might say "I don't agree with gay marriage because I don't agree with ANY marriage". Well, that's fabulous but everybody should still be able to make that choice themselves. Gay people don't get a say in straight people's relationships. I do school talks about gay rights and homophobia as a job and yeah... In my research I've never found any genuine reason to not allow same sexes to marry. EDIT: As for benefits, my boyfriend being an Australian would obviously benefit from me marrying him so he can be a permanent resident.
nightwolf Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 If anyone anywhere can explain to me how anyone is hurt by same sex marriages, I'll be happy to understand and respect naysayers. It's idiotic to be against something that hurts absolutely no one in any single way. I find I do not even have to explain myself, as my opinion is in the above quote.
Daft Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) The only argument I could have against gay marriage is that it validates the idea of marriage, more so than it already is in society - and I think marriage is unnecessary, and potentially inhibiting, as a concept. I mean, I get it as a symbolic act but as an institution it's just not fluid enough for my liking. Edited March 13, 2012 by Daft
EddieColeslaw Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 Men and women are still people. If a man and a woman, a person and a person, are "allowed" to get married, why can't a woman and a woman, a person and a person, legally get married? As with a man and a man (both being people)? I honestly find it very hard to see the issue. Are there any actual benefits to marriage? I haven't heard any good reasons to get married in general. Yes, there are tax reasons - I think a married couple pay less tax? Also one benefit would be the convenience of sharing mortgages, bank accounts, stuff like that. I think that for two people who are truly in love, marriage shouldn't be a necessity, but it's nice anyway. I dislike the idea of marriage as a bargaining tool or ultimatum, used to get or achieve something.
Hamishmash Posted March 13, 2012 Posted March 13, 2012 That's the thing, there are loads of arguments why nobody should really get married, but denying people to make that choice themselves is downright nasty.
Paj! Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 I have a twinge of 'Why do you want to be part of/take part in a ceremony run by a group of people who collectively don't want you?' (ie gays not being wanted by the religious, in general) - but then obviously a lot of people just want the marriage sans the religion, which should be allowed whether you're straight or gay.
Hamishmash Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 I have a twinge of 'Why do you want to be part of/take part in a ceremony run by a group of people who collectively don't want you?' (ie gays not being wanted by the religious, in general) - but then obviously a lot of people just want the marriage sans the religion, which should be allowed whether you're straight or gay. And there are many gay christians that want to be married in a church because of their religion but denied it. A lot of people think in Christians vs. Gays terms, but to many people that isn't an issue.
Ashley Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 Also one benefit would be the convenience of sharing mortgages, bank accounts, stuff like that. You can share mortgages and bank accounts with whoever you wish. Yes, that was a proposal
EddieColeslaw Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 You can share mortgages and bank accounts with whoever you wish. Yes, that was a proposal Really? Oh man, I feel dumb for posting misinformation :/ Couples do definitely get a tax break though, I remember that from when I was freaking out about - er, researching wages and tax! Sorry, you're too late :p I have a twinge of 'Why do you want to be part of/take part in a ceremony run by a group of people who collectively don't want you?' (ie gays not being wanted by the religious, in general) - but then obviously a lot of people just want the marriage sans the religion, which should be allowed whether you're straight or gay. i.e. civil partnership. Maybe marriage should just be replaced by civil partnership for everyone (not just same-sex couples)?
Ashley Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 Really? Oh man, I feel dumb for posting misinformation :/ Couples do definitely get a tax break though, I remember that from when I was freaking out about - er, researching wages and tax! Sorry, you're too late :p I wasn't trying to suggest you're misinformed ^_^ I only know about the other stuff because its cropped up in my life at some point.
Razz Posted March 14, 2012 Author Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) I said I'd give my opinion after a while, and I didn't expect such a reply so quickly, so here it is: For Cardinal O'Brien to say that plans for same-sex marriage is "a grotesque subversion of a universally accepted human right" is as laughable as it is contradictory and I don't really think this comment needs much more examning. I mean, he said it himself, "human right". Furthermore, for him to suggest that same-sex marriage would further "deprive a child of either a mother or a father." is plain ludicrous and more-so insulting, that as part of an institution responsible for the vile and systemic abuse of children by priests which the Catholic Church has actively tried to cover up, somehow having two fathers would bring us to the verge of an apocalypse. The rampantly religious are not only showing themselves to be backwards, but the entire argument also reeks of hypocrisy it'd make Jesus himself weep. For John Sentamu the Archbishop of York to put out the idea that the introduction of same-sex marriage would be wrong because of "centuries old tradition", well as a black man in a high position you'd think that he'd appreciate discrimination when he saw it. Alas no. (I should also point out that yes, I believe this to be a civil rights issue much like race was in the 60s.) Anyway I applaud the governments efforts so far, I just hope religious lobbyists fall at the first hurdle, which if they keep us this shrill and revealing tirade of intolerance and authoritarianism, might just happen. The point I don't get is that, if you are against gay marriage, how about you don't marry someone of your same sex? That way everybody wins and you can go fuck off and be miserable elsewhere. EDIT: Edited March 14, 2012 by Razz
Hamishmash Posted March 14, 2012 Posted March 14, 2012 Two loving mothers or two loving fathers is better than no mother or father at all, I think. There are a lot of parentless children in the world, I don't see the problem with giving them to couples who WANT them. They're far more likely to be good parents than the thousands of people who have children without wanting them. It just makes no sense to be against these things. One day people with these horrible opinions will realise they were on the wrong side of history.
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