Debug Mode Posted March 7, 2012 Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) I'm for the arrest of the guy, like I would be for any one with such barbaric activities, but I wont be donating any money to these guys. Fair play to those of you that do though. Their message seemed to be very conflicting to me. They banged on about how collectively, we can call upon our Governments to do something about this. But then they hit the topic of donating money to help the cause, but I thought awareness was supposedly enough? It doesn't help when you show an extremely well shot and edited movie that employs every single opinion influencing technique there is. I'm probably just being overly cynical, I've never been fond of 'charities' that keep the majority of money they get in donations rather than using what it is intended for. There was also a point in the video if I recall correctly where he says to some one "Who are you to end a war? Well, who are you to NOT end a war?", pretty nice words. But the way they push it and what they demand pretty much comes across as waging war to end a war, which just repeats the cycle. It doesn't help the fact that the UPDF that the US soldiers are training have been accused of raping and looting. Heck, I'm hard pressed to find any information preparing or planning for Kony's arrest like they imply they are in the movie, all I find is material that looks like they're just straight out there to kill him. People will argue "Oh but he should die for his crimes", but you're enabling these fuckers an easy way out. Best of luck to the guys and I hope their intentions are true to their message, but I definitely wont be parting any cash to these guys. Edited March 7, 2012 by Debug Mode
Hamishmash Posted March 7, 2012 Author Posted March 7, 2012 EDIT: Posted at the same time as the post above I am very cautious about supporting any charity. We recently did a project for Amnesty International at uni, and while we are fully aware their mission is very admirable, they way of doing things is often very (and ironicly) inhumane. So with regards to this organisation - don't support the organisation blindly, but absolutely support the mission to get Joseph Kony's name known. I'm not sure how much I agree with donating any money, the guilt tripping of charities to get money off of people is actually quite disturbing if you like into where the money goes (for example with Amnesty, we raised about £2000 for them, none of it going to any of the causes we mentioned to the people on the streets about, but instead to fund their expensive websites, plane flights to foreign countries, etc). I don't even think I agree with supporting the company at all, but most definitely supporting the idea. And I think sharing this video is a good enough starting point. I also am very wary of supporting the Ugandan government in anything, because they have enough corruption, raping and looting going on to worry about Kony.
EddieColeslaw Posted March 7, 2012 Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) This is worth a read... Someone's done a little research, pointing out things like the fact Uganda has been free of LRA violence for 5 years, and that the Invisible Children charity is only giving a tiny amount of the money he's making back. It doesn't change the facts about what Kony has done, but it does make you question the way this film gives the impression that a war is going on when it isn't. Yes! My intuition and bad feelings about this were correct! The group is in favour of direct military intervention, and their money supports the Ugandan government’s army and various other military forces. [..] Is awareness good? Yes. But these problems are highly complex, not one-dimensional and, frankly, aren’t of the nature that can be solved by postering, film-making and changing your Facebook profile picture, as hard as that is to swallow. Giving your money and public support to Invisible Children so they can spend it on supporting ill-advised violent intervention and movie #12 isn’t helping. Do I have a better answer? No, I don’t, but that doesn’t mean that you should support KONY 2012 just because it’s something. Something isn’t always better than nothing. Sometimes it’s worse. http://visiblechildren.tumblr.com/post/18890947431/we-got-trouble OTHER SOURCES OF INFORMATION/OTHER WAYS TO HELP THE CAUSE: http://captainjhwatson.tumblr.com/post/18889656542 Edited March 7, 2012 by EddieColeslaw Automerged Doublepost
nightwolf Posted March 7, 2012 Posted March 7, 2012 After finding the video here, I went and did a little research (which I don't really need to post here.) The video is great, I'm all for supporting a cause such as this to make sure a name such as Kony's is known, to get things sorted out. But the first stage was Kony2012.com, the website has a lot of merchandise on it that you can purchase and the whole vibe seems more like a publicity stunt than a charity. It all seems a bit off, which is a shame as it is a good cause.
Mokong Posted March 7, 2012 Posted March 7, 2012 I went and shared the video on my twitter and FB's and such, but when I went to their website it seemed more like a shop with all the merch it had (and it was expensive shit too) I think sharing the vids/info about Kony should be good enough if the main goal is to "make him famous/known", though I do like the idea of the posters and stuff but they could just as easily offer a high quality .png of the poster for download and let people who want to put them up print them out on their own.
Charlie Posted March 7, 2012 Posted March 7, 2012 Don't forget to pledge online at http://www.kony2012.com. If you want, you can order an Action Kit (http://store.invisiblechildren.com/kony-kit.html). WE'RE NOT ASKING FOR MONEY. Exact quote as it is on some of the events pages for the 20th April 'Cover the Night'. I completely support the fact that Kony needs to be arrested and have done for much longer than the 24 hours since this came to limelight. Out of interest, I haven't watched the video - it may be covered in it, what would Invisible Children actually do for the cause with the money donated? On-going help to children who are caught up in warfare or is it directly related to Kony?
Cube Posted March 7, 2012 Posted March 7, 2012 32% (I think) helps children. The rest is to make films and pay for staff.
dwarf Posted March 7, 2012 Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) I hated the world a lot more after seeing this go viral. People are sheep. If you're going to share the video, at minimum I'd expect you to comment on why you support Invisible Children (even though I'd vehemently disagree with you) and what makes it an effective cause. Otherwise, post some research that discusses Joseph Kony, preferably choose an article or two that isn't fuelled by such a massive agenda. I've seen people who have signed up to Facebook events to protest in tiny towns around the UK by littering streets with Kony 2012 posters. Fucking mental. It's clear they based their decision to gallivant around the country on that viral video alone. Edited March 7, 2012 by dwarf
Debug Mode Posted March 7, 2012 Posted March 7, 2012 Same shit is going on with my facebook contacts Dwarf, it's fucking ridiculous. I think the 'Watch one 30 minute video, become social activist' image posted earlier pretty much sums it all up. I think it's all fair and good that people are riled up about the guy and want to spread awareness, but when it ends up as a debate on whether a wrist band or a shirt is better to buy I feel the need to rip my own eyes out so I don't have to witness such stupidity. It's very amusing to watch the arguments that crop up though, I'll give it that.
The Peeps Posted March 7, 2012 Posted March 7, 2012 I hated the world a lot more after seeing this go viral. People are sheep. If you're going to share the video, at minimum I'd expect you to comment on why you support Invisible Children (even though I'd vehemently disagree with you) and what makes it an effective cause. Otherwise, post some research that discusses Joseph Kony, preferably choose an article or two that isn't fuelled by such a massive agenda. I've seen people who have signed up to Facebook events to protest in tiny towns around the UK by littering streets with Kony 2012 posters. Fucking mental. It's clear they based their decision to gallivant around the country on that viral video alone. Yeah what a bunch of dicks, setting up protests against Kony just because they saw a video. It would be much better if no one watched it. Or if everyone watched it and completely ignored it, scoffing at anyone who just wants to help. I don't understand the mentality behind your argument. Are you saying that charities and causes such as this shouldn't have bandwagoners? No one should spread the message along or join the cause? Let's all just sit in our 4x4 cells and ignore the outside world shall we. I do agree with the first part of your post though. People shouldn't just be mindlessly re-posting without watching or forming their own opinions.
dwarf Posted March 7, 2012 Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) Don't be ridiculous. What I have a problem with is that they're going out blindly in support of a charity which is in fact rather reprehensible. Do a bit more research for fuck sake. If they were going to raise awareness about the man in a different way i.e. a way which didn't entail the endorsement of Invisible Children, then fine. As it is, the people protesting are predominantly those showing faux interest, giving greater credence to this issue because it is topical/trending on Facebook. I'm not saying they're bad people for this, but I'd expect them to look elsewhere for information about the charity and Joseph Kony. They've clearly not bothered to do so. Edited March 7, 2012 by dwarf
MoogleViper Posted March 7, 2012 Posted March 7, 2012 Donating $15 dollars a month. Decent video with a bit too much cheese, but it got the point across. Hopefully it works. You're actually gonna set up a regular donation based on 30 minutes of propaganda? Have you actually researched the organisation you're donating this money to? I highly doubt it. If you had then you'd know that less than a third of your money will actually go towards helping people. The rest will be spent in wages and film making. Now of course every charity has expenses, but 32% is ridiculously low for a charity. Compare that to Oxfam and Save the Children who both spend ~90% of what they raise on direct help.
dwarf Posted March 7, 2012 Posted March 7, 2012 And some of it goes to the Ugandan military which also abuses children.
MoogleViper Posted March 7, 2012 Posted March 7, 2012 And some of it goes to the Ugandan military which also abuses children. It does? I've just set up a regular donation of $15 a month.
arab_freak Posted March 7, 2012 Posted March 7, 2012 This is worth a read... I also found these: http://www.wrongingrights.com/2009/03/worst-idea-ever.html/ I was going to write a lengthy post about my thoughts on this video, but everything I have to say has been pretty much said by 5 or 6 posts in this thread. Also lol:
Yvonne Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 It would be great if there was an effective way of combining the ad hoc democracy of big brother (tv show I mean!) with lasting and effective social change for the better re: extremely horrific violent scenarios (DR congo, Uganda, mexico et al) but in the meantime my money's going to mosquito nets. However I will watch this develop with interest. Also the dubstep really turned me off. Shallow, I know...
MoogleViper Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) but in the meantime my money's going to mosquito nets. I completely agree with this. Such a seemingly small item, yet together we can save millions of mosquitoes from dying needlessly of AIDS. A few more points that me and @Supergrunch have been discussing in chat. There is clear use of generic and unrelated emotional footage, such as his kid. "Should we stop this bad man?" "Yes". Oh well if a 6 year old child says we should then obviously I need to repost this on facebook. Also the video constantly talks about the world, people sharing things in cities around the world, the world needs to know etc. Yet then says that the US government needs to do something about it. Not the UN, which was set up to deal with international situations like this (such as they did with Gaddafi), no, the US government, which has a sterling history of unbiased agendas when going to war with other countries. The videos main fact backing up this war criminal comes from the ICC, yet the US (who this video is claiming can swoop in and solve the problems) aren't even a full member of the ICC. Uganda, however, are a member, yet the unsigned US government needs to come in and tell them what to do and sort out their problems. Edited March 8, 2012 by MoogleViper Automerged Doublepost
Beast Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 I'm all for stopping Kony and everything and I'll share this video (and yes, I've read up more on the story, I don't just share a video and that's that) but I just hate how he's hiding behind the children because they will be the ones who'll be fighting the soldiers. It will be Kony's army who are just children who have been forced to kill. It's just a horrible situation and this man really does need to be stopped. All you need to do is raise attention, you don't have to buy anything. Posters? Make them yourself. Bracelets? Those too. All you need to do is raise awareness and I think that pretty much has been done. People can say "There will be another psychopath that we'll have to deal with" and things like that but in saying that, does that mean we don't do a thing about it? There's going to be more killers, rapists and paedophiles but does that mean we don't stop the ones out there already? There's, no doubt, going to be another psychopath so we just don't care because they'll keep on being replaced? So we let the volume of the sick bastards grow? This is what I don't get when people say things like this. Yeah, I completely agree that it's a horrible situation but he needs to be stopped, just like all of the other sick bastards out there need to be stopped too. It's sickening to think about, really. Nobody wins.
drahkon Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 Response of Invisible Children. I've read it just now and up until one point I thought it was quite genuine and understandable...but the explanation they give for the photo (the founders with the guns) is just ridiculous: A story told by Jason Russell: The photo of Bobby, Laren and I with the guns was taken in an LRA camp in DRC during the 2008 Juba Peace Talks. We were there to see Joseph Kony come to the table to sign the Final Peace Agreement. The Sudan People’s Liberation Army (SPLA) was surrounding our camp for protection since Sudan was mediating the peace talks. We wanted to talk to them and film them and get their perspective. And because Bobby, Laren and I are friends and had been doing this for 5 years, we thought it would be funny to bring back to our friends and family a joke photo. You know, “Haha - they have bazookas in their hands but they’re actually fighting for peace.” The ironic thing about this photo is that I HATE guns. I always have. Back in 2008 I wanted this war to end, like we all did, peacefully, through peace talks. But Kony was not interested in that; he kept killing. And we still don’t want war. We don’t want him killed and we don’t want bombs dropped. We want him alive and captured and brought to justice. Really?
Debug Mode Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 Hahahaha wat. I'm still not buying it. It's nice that they finally decided to respond to the concerns people are having but I don't think any one is buying the fact they simply want him arrested. Yet again, good luck to the guys, my money isn't going any where near them and I hope any one donating or buying their merchandise puts a lot of thought into it.
Agent Gibbs Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 This is worth a read... [...] [...] It doesn't help the fact that the UPDF that the US soldiers are training have been accused of raping and looting. Heck, I'm hard pressed to find any information preparing or planning for Kony's arrest like they imply they are in the movie, all I find is material that looks like they're just straight out there to kill him. People will argue "Oh but he should die for his crimes", but you're enabling these fuckers an easy way out. And some of it goes to the Ugandan military which also abuses children. I came in here expecting to complain about the charity involved and how people shouldn't support this at all... but it seems most of my points have been covered other than, they are emphasising Gourami's point; the money (1/3 the rest goes to admin...) goes to the Ugandan army who rape and pillage their way across the place as it is, and when they go to retake Kony from his stronghold (should it get to that stage) they will go in all guns blazing to decimate his Army to take him dead or alive his army is child soldiers! people are giving money to stop a man using child soldiers and the money will be used to send soldiers in force to kill him and his army! the whole situation beggars belief. Not to mention that Kony is not the only african warlord who is using child soldiers, raping and massacring, so why single him out others are equally as bad. A better way to raise the issues would be to fund bigger charities who are targetting diplomatic approaches and more thought out plans to tackle ALL situations like this, not just one charity targeting a guy (who's been inactive for 5 years) with armed forces. Support Amnesty international and other African Charities, and name and shame ALL warlords, but considering they are well known in their own countries it has no really baring since they thrive off notoriety
Dan_Dare Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 Joseph Kony is not in Uganda, and other complicated things I also watched the film. Manipulative, sketchy as fuck and offensively dishonest.
MoogleViper Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 "I wanna be the very best Like no one ever was To catch them is my real test To train them is my cause." ~Joseph Kony
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