Posted June 24, 2011 I'm not sure if this is the right forum, but whatevs. I'm currently playing Super Mario Galaxy 2. It's great fun, like the original, but the new elements are very welcome, like Yoshi and Luigi being playable. And some of the level designs stun me so much. Just done the boss level of World 4. Inception eat your heart out. BUT I just wonder if the Mario series (as in - the MAJOR flagship games like Galaxy) make enough use of the actual Mario mythos. There are a lot of characters in the series, as evidenced in any of the sports games you pick up - there's tonnes! Yet the main games never really make much use of them. I know Sonic suffered for having TOO much supporting cast in his games, but Mario feels like there isn't enough. It's something (in Galaxy especially) that feels missing. Obviously it's a concious choice, and the classic formula of Mario going after Bowser who's kidnapped Peach etc is something they want to keep intact - but it's the lack of a real 'story', or even connection to other Mario games and characters that feels a bit "...". The game is very bright and colourful and I guess 'looks' like it's for kids, but obviously we know they're amazing games that can challenge adults as much as (and if not more so than) kids (how many kids really finish these games?). The one thing that I think kinda makes me cringe a bit is how it's SO simplistic, plot-wise. I'm not saying it needs to have elaborate love triangles and tonnes of subplots, but utilising the characters they've created and giving them some sort of personality a little more could be good IMO. And just...I don't know. I just think it'd be cool if the games referenced the fact the other games came before/that there are other characters...or something. I don't know. Anyway - thoughts on whether Mario is a-ok as is, or should the games have more of a 'story'? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 24, 2011 I say it's fine as it is, but that's because Mario games don't care about plots and stories, it's just about playing the game and having fun. Even Miyamoto said something similiar he doesn't really want a story in Mario titles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 24, 2011 You should play the Paper Mario and/or Mario & Luigi games. They're full of references to and jokes about the Mario mythos. I think it works in those games, but I'm fine with the platformers being light on story. The story just got in the way in Sunshine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) In some ways I suppose this is what the Paper Mario/Mario & Luigi games achieve... expanding/developing characters, great humour, exploring the mushroom kingdom etc... Yeah it would be nice to see Nintendo take inpiration from this and put it into a true Mario adventure. The Super Mario World Cartoon also managed this on a level. Mind you Sunshine tried a bit of a story and that was awful! I'm always saying that I'd like Nintendo to go back to basics and have DK star as the enemy in a Mario game again... just to mix things up a bit. The Mario universe has become too solely Mario focused... it could do with including Luigi, Wario, Daisy, DK, Kamek, [Yoshi] etc... (and make personalities out of them) more often. Edited June 24, 2011 by Retro_Link Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 24, 2011 I love Mario games because there isn't much of a focus on plot. While plot is good, so many games now are gameplay cutscene cutscene cutscene cutscene gameplay cutscene cutscene cutscene gameplay. Mario however is focused on gameplay. Fuck plots when the game is fun Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 24, 2011 They should make a 2D platforming Mario game with different levels, where you play as different characters- Mario, Luigi, Wario, Waluigi, Yoshi, Peach, Bowser maybe? And they should call it Mario All Cast 2D Megagame. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 24, 2011 I've always thought Mario didn't need a plot. I loved the way Bowser swooped in, kidnapped the Princess, then you had to rescue her. There's something simple and iconic about it. However, I then realised I don't actually like Mario that much, not enough to put it up there with Zelda, anyway, so you may have a point, Paj. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 24, 2011 Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga probably uses the Mario universe the best; expanding the idea of countries and such... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 24, 2011 It's even just things like...why not just have Wario or Waluigi as bosses every so often? Rather than JUST Bowser and Bowser Jr.? Why not have Daisy make a joke cameo randomly on a level, for no reason other you may as well incliude her? Or Birdo having her say in an egg-based level. Just things like that. It feels almost deductive to NOT include these characters on some level in these huge games. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 24, 2011 Yeah I thought it was plain rediculous and somewhat dissapointing that they didn't even bother to swap Peach's model for Daisy, in the Luigi playthrough of Sunshine. WTF does Luigi care about saving Peach for! He aint never gettin any of that Peach! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 24, 2011 (edited) Ah, the praise for the Mario&Luigi and Paper Mario series does my heart well, I tell you. Today, my copy of Mario&Luigi: Superstar Saga arrived, making my Mario&Luigi collection in physical form complete. I've played all of the games in the series several times, but I still think that nothing beats Mario&Luigi: Superstar Saga. It has been a while since I've experienced this piece of brilliance, so the coming days will be filled with humorous goodness:D and to be quite frank, Fawful is probably THE best character ever created. His use of grammer is,. .... .just, ......it's just a joy to read his lines, ....simply a thing to look forward to. Take this quote from Bowser's Inside Story for instance: "You have the impatience...You must stop and sample the sprinklies in life's salad bar." Now that is a way to adress the King of Koopas, no? but I digress... I agree that there are quite some characters in the Mushroom Kingdom who ought to have been present in the main Mario games, for it would be nice to see them in such a full 3D-platforming adventure than in, say, a party game. At the very least the crew of a Mario Party game should get references or be present in a main Mario game, yet this clearly doesn't happen because those games are more about gameplay with ye ol' man of stache than anything else. Such is the way of a Miyamoto butterfly. This is why we should cherish those Mario RPGs, although these games tend to invent their own universes with a whole new cast of characters through which the hardcore of the Mushroom Kingdom (Mario, Luigi, Bowser, Peach) must venture. When Mario&Luigi: Partners in Time was first announced, I was hoping they might do a Pokémon and release Wario&Waluigi: Partners in Crime alongside it. Little did I know that NINTENDO cares only for Wario, and that Waluigi would get his own game, in which he teams up with Tingle in Full HD in a realistic visual style...this is yet to be announced of course but I digress... It's nice that main Mario games are all about the gameplay, but fleshing out the Mushroom Kingdom crew a little bit more wouldn't kill them, and it's a nice touch for the fans. What also would definitely NOT kill them is, indeed, make Donkey Kong the main villian once again! I mean, .......since when did this ape stop kidnapping Peach, and started handing out free stars, and bananas, and coins, and love&sweets&ice cream? Since he got his own threats to worry about (King K. Rool, Tikis)? Since Bowser kicked his ass, raped his ass, and made 8 babies on his ass in secret? PU-LU-EEE-SU! We need a main Mario game in which Wario, Donkey Kong, Ward, and Bowser duke it out to settle FOR GOOD AND ALL who will get to play the main villian in full 3D-Mario platformers for a good while! The gameplay would revolve around positioning the camera in such a way as to ensure you'll be able to get a good view of the fight. but I digress... Uhm, .....SO yeah, more story please:grin: Edited June 24, 2011 by Fused King Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 24, 2011 What also would definitely NOT kill them is, indeed, make Donkey Kong the main villian once again! I mean, .......since when did this ape stop kidnapping Peach, and started handing out free stars, and bananas, and coins, and love&sweets&ice cream? Donkey Kong never cared about Peach. He was always more interested in Pauline. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 24, 2011 For me, the recent Mario Games (Galaxy, Sunshine) got story about right. I don't expect a deep, oscar winning story from Mario, just a nice idea fleshed out a little and these games got it right. The one thing I would like is more voice over from Mario, the occasional whoop and urgh is a bit dated now, I don't care what Miyamoto says, Mario needs to be a bit more vocal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 24, 2011 Yeah I thought it was plain rediculous and somewhat dissapointing that they didn't even bother to swap Peach's model for Daisy, in the Luigi playthrough of Sunshine. WTF does Luigi care about saving Peach for! He aint never gettin any of that Peach! I don't think he's suppsoed to have a thing for Daisy though... When Mario&Luigi: Partners in Time was first announced, I was hoping they might do a Pokémon and release Wario&Waluigi: Partners in Crime alongside it. Little did I know that NINTENDO cares only for Wario, and that Waluigi would get his own game, in which he teams up with Tingle in Full HD in a realistic visual style...this is yet to be announced of course I'm assuming Birdo and Slippy would also feature? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 24, 2011 I don't think he's suppsoed to have a thing for Daisy though...It's always implied Daisy if Luigi's Peach. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 25, 2011 They could just easily have more interesting dialogue that references this sort of stuff (Luigi/Daisy), for example. And maybe a 'reason' Bowser keeps kidnapping Peach? IDK. I don't want tonnes of story, but it feels like they could have tiny little details here and there that might be more satisfying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 25, 2011 This is what happens when you give Mario more of a story. I'm all for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 25, 2011 I think the Mario universe is fine as it is. Nothing too serious, character interaction is reserved for the RPGs and spin-offs and this allows them to come up with all sorts of madness for any Mario game. That said, I'd love to see Waluigi appear in a proper game for once. I once played a fangame that starred Waluigi with psychic powers, which would be the sort of thing that could very well give him more character than the generic "Dick Dastardly-like rival of Luigi" he currently has. Even a supporting role in a Wario game would do. Just something. He appeared in Brawl with a Tennis racket because he had nothing else going for him, for God's sake. I'm always saying that I'd like Nintendo to go back to basics and have DK star as the enemy in a Mario game again... just to mix things up a bit. Like in the Mario vs Donkey Kong series (or its spiritual predecessor, Donkey Kong '94)? Yeah I thought it was plain rediculous and somewhat dissapointing that they didn't even bother to swap Peach's model for Daisy, in the Luigi playthrough of Sunshine. Say what again, now? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 25, 2011 WTF does Luigi care about saving Peach for! He aint never gettin any of that Peach! Nor is Mario. She's a cocktease. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 25, 2011 I'd be happy with something like Wario and Waluigi having some sort of roles, bosses that could part of Bowser's crew, or maybe a secondary threat/whatever. Wouldn't have to interfere with the world-hopping particularly. Even just visual references to Birdo, Toadette (seems pointless not having her/them in the games now she's been invented for the Kart games), Daisy etc. Would be nice in fleshing out the Mario universe in the main games..just something they don't seem to take advantage of. I think they've done Yoshi and Luigi well in Galaxy 2. They're there for your use, but not all the time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 25, 2011 I Enjoy Wario being the bad guy in Super Mario Land 2: Six Gold Coins. refreshing. Leave the fun stories to Paper Mario/Mario + Luigi though. I do like Wario's own games including the gamecube one which i used to have a weird obsession with. :p I do want a Waluigi game though. For Super Mario Galaxy 2 they focused on the right thing and that was nailing the gameplay which is some of the best platforming I've ever had the pleasure to play and it is one of the nicest looking games this generation. Equally I feel they've included a lot of stuff from over the years to keep me interested personally like the inclusion of Yoshi which is great and doesn't feel tact on. I don't want the characters there if they serve no real purpose. Kamek is always welcome so I can punch the cocky, flying, ugly, broom faced idiot into the next kingdom. For Super Mario 64 DS, The inclusion of Wario, Luigi and Yoshi for different styles of gameplay and power ups was also good made going through the levels more fun. Again that is from a gameplay point of view. I'm all for including them from a gameplay perspective but I really just skip the story unless rosalina is on the screen cos she's hot. Isla, Lubba is a sexy beast. Spent about an hour non stop tickling him with Yoshi's tongue watching him spin gleefully! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 26, 2011 I can't remember what happened to Rosalina at the end of Galaxy. I kinda like how she isn't in Galaxy 2, since the universe is a big place, it's not like she'd have to be involved with a second trip to space. Sending joke letters to Luma. And I notice her digital ghost appears to guide you when you're lost and alone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 26, 2011 I kinda like how she isn't in Galaxy 2 Uhm, Well... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted June 26, 2011 He appeared in Brawl with a Tennis racket because he had nothing else going for him, for God's sake. This, ..... It does not do him justice! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
