3DS Console Discussion

[Nolan]

I may have been way off (way. way off) base on the graphical capabilities, but if this is true I was right about Nintendo sticking with ARM.

[Debug Mode]

Wasn't ARM a given due to the fact they promised backwards compatibility for previous DS games? As I thought to run it without the need for resource heavy emulation, they'd have to stick with a similar architecture chip?

 

I'm quite surprised at the lacking power of the chips though, I was almost certain in my head both of the ARM processors would clock above 333mhz, the maximum the PSP could handle. (It's important to note though the processors were capped at 222mhz for a good while until a firmware update allowed games to make use of the full speed)

[Nolan]

Despite the evidence for ARM being a given there was hope and speculation towards something like Tegra or Tegra 2.

 

Search for ARM 11 and on the ARM site they say the chips run from 350MHz-1GHz...so the listed speed is a bit of an oddity.

[Debug Mode]

Well it is IGN so this is likely to be complete bullshit!

[James McGeachie]

Well it is IGN so this is likely to be complete bullshit!

 

 

Sounds completely and utterly realistic that these specs are true.

 

Reminds me completely of the Wii specs that were unveiled by "IGN" (which were never "confirmed" by Nintendo and will never be) and were blatantly true (with only the most defiant idiots still denying this fact after years of developers working on the system).

 

Although it is funny whenever anyone says "IGN" or anything like that, since it's a site full of many gaming journalists, all of which with their own credentials and reliability, but people are insistent on bundling them all together as if the site is just one person.

 

Anyway these 3DS specs are higher than I expected. Sounds completely reasonable and exactly what I would want from the system. We're talking hardware that's comparable to the Gamecube and Xbox and surpasses the Dreamcast and PS2, yet also has more modern shader capabilities coming from its GPU. All this on a small screen.

 

I dont know why stuff like this ever surprises anyone. People should know by now to always expect Nintendo to go towards the more conservative end with specs, balancing both battery life for the system and profit margin for themselves.

 

All the "comparable to next gen quotes" were always along the lines of the "mid dreamcast level" quotes aimed at the DS (which was far less powerful than the Dreamcast). It represents the visual "punch" the developers feel the system can have due to its smaller screen resolution and size. It never meant that the specs would be even remotely comparable to next gen systems.

 

This is still a massive jump over DS and is honestly also a bigger jump really than GBA to DS was in terms of sheer technological advancement.

For the recorded the listed clock speeds for the ARM11 on the official site are the recommended maximums. Nintendo running at lower clock speeds can conserve battery life more. With 2 processors and the GPU, this would logically make sense for why they went lower than the maximum.

Edited September 22, 2010 by James McGeachie

[Dante]

Digital Foundry - Tech Spec Exploration

 

Last night's leak of the Nintendo 3DS tech spec reveals a lean, power efficient device assembled from a relatively mediocre set of components. Once again, the platform holder has used a selection of established, cheap, off-the-shelf chips and made it feel fresh and new thanks to the implementation of a game-changing concept: in this case, glasses-free stereo 3D.

 

According to IGN's anonymous source, 3DS is powered by twin ARM11 CPUs clocked at a relatively meagre 266MHz, while overall system storage (sans SD card) is 1.5GB. Onboard RAM is 64MB, with 4MB of video memory. DMP's PICA-200 graphics chip is said to be running at a relatively lightweight 133MHz.

 

First things first, let's address the plausibility of the source. IGN has a reputation for outing notoriously secretive Nintendo specs and in its previous stories on DS and Wii, history has proven them to be entirely correct. With a track record like that, it would be unwise to bet against the veracity of this story assuming it comes from the same source. More than that, there are other elements to the spec which clearly corroborate with other little-known, recently unearthed facts about the system - and we'll get to that a bit later. In short, the story appears eminently credible.

 

Assessing the hardware set-up, it's obvious that the assembled components represent a massive step-up from the existing DSi, while measuring up badly against the latest in smartphone technology. The 64MB of RAM is particularly disappointing, bearing in mind that the PSP has shipped with the exact same amount of memory since the launch of the PSP-2000 (the first "slim" model). On the plus side, there is no smartphone OS required to tax RAM resources, but regardless, it's still a surprisingly low amount.

 

The 4MB of video RAM may seem particularly appalling (and is equal to the amount found in PlayStation 2), but bearing in mind that the 3DS only has to deal with an 800x240 framebuffer it shouldn't cause undue concern. What the RAM would actually be used for is also a prime concern - is that 4MB for textures only, or is it akin to the 10MB of eDRAM attached to the Xbox 360 graphics chip? The original story is, alas, short of details.

 

The ARM11 architecture is rather long in the tooth now, with noted tech site AnandTech likening it to a very highly clocked 486-level CPU, while the new A8 Cortex is more akin to a Pentium. The original iPhone ran a single ARM11 core at 412MHz, so overall CPU capability is probably very similar indeed to the 3DS - the difference being that the full power of the twin cores can be deployed on games without the meaty iOS overhead that the iPhone needs to maintain while running any application.

 

Nintendo's decision to run the PICA-200 GPU at a mere 133MHz is again surprisingly low. The chip itself can run at up to 400MHz, but the vendor itself quotes specs at 200MHz. Here, PICA-200 maxes out at 800 million pixels per second and 15.3 million polygons per second – so we can most likely expect 66 per cent of that general performance on Nintendo's down-clocked version of the chip.

 

Despite the lowered clock speed, the chip loses none of its bespoke technology: DMP says that PICA-200 supports per-pixel lighting, procedural textures, refraction mapping and self-shadowing - in the absence of programmable pixel shaders, it's exactly the sort of thing that makes graphically impressive 3DS titles like Resident Evil look as good as they do.

 

This just leaves the rather curious 1.5GB of on-board flash RAM, and this can be effectively confirmed by analysis of the 3DS development hardware we've seen so far - lending further credibility to IGN's specs.

 

Regular readers of Digital Foundry will probably recall our story on the Nintendo CTR Target Board - basically this is the development kit for the 3DS, and Nintendo submitted it to the FCC for testing its WiFi component. Recent images of an older CTR Target Board have recently been unearthed by Daniele Brigliadori of Nintendo3DSItalia, who painstakingly searched FCC filings for any use of the Mitsumi antenna used in all the Nintendo DS handhelds thus far.

 

Close-ups of the board in the FCC filing clearly show that the development kit possesses a 2GB moviNAND flash chip supplied by Samsung. This suggests that Nintendo is making 1.5GB of that RAM available to the user, while reserving an impressive 25 per cent for the operating system. Reserving a mammoth 512MB suggests that Nintendo has serious plans for the functionality of the unit over and above what we have seen so far.

 

The board is also fascinating as a piece of evidence in the history of the 3DS's development. Last year, rumours circulated that Nintendo was using NVIDIA's Tegra hardware for its upcoming DS replacement. There were even rumours of a sighting at gamescom 2009, behind closed doors.

 

In November, Digital Foundry upped the ante still further by revealing that the Tegra 2 system-on-chip (SoC) would be powering the "DS2", most likely in a custom flavour designed by Nintendo. Flash forward to June 2009 and suddenly NVIDIA was out of the picture. Bearing in mind that we typically double-source before publishing a rumour (and in this case, the NVIDIA connection was actually triple-sourced), NVIDIA being dumped was a bit of a surprise. Were all of our sources wrong?

 

The newly discovered FCC filing, dated to December 2009, clearly shows an older version of the Target Board, dubbed CTR-TEG2: firm evidence that Nintendo was indeed closely involved with NVIDIA and that Tegra IP was still being used until relatively recently.

 

It's clearly still a 3DS - there's the exact same arrangement of widescreen and 4:3 screens, though there are a number of changes, not least of which is just a single external camera, suggesting that the full stereoscopic 3D capabilities of the unit were still being worked on, or remained a closely guarded secret within Nintendo itself at that point in time.

 

Quite why Nintendo decided to switch suppliers and go with DMP remains something of a mystery, especially bearing in mind just how much more modern and capable the Tegra IP is compared to the much older PICA-200. Perhaps it was a cost issue, perhaps it was a power consumption issue: Nintendo likes cheap parts and lots of battery life. Maybe, similar to the Dreamcast, there were two competing designs using graphical IP from different suppliers.

 

Bearing in mind how secretive Nintendo is about its technology and its relationships with external IP vendors, the chances are it'll be years until we find out what actually happened...

[Grazza]

 

Sounds completely and utterly realistic that these specs are true.

 

Reminds me completely of the Wii specs that were unveiled by "IGN" (which were never "confirmed" by Nintendo and will never be) and were blatantly true (with only the most defiant idiots still denying this fact after years of developers working on the system).

 

Quite.

 

I always thought the 3DS wouldn't have much processing "grunt", especially since the vertical resolution is so low compared to an iPhone - it's more like a low-powered machine with clever graphical effects.

 

Also, I still say the DS was incredibly underpowered - definitely the worst graphics ever for a 3D machine - so the 3DS will be a massive improvement.

[The Lillster]

Quite.

 

I always thought the 3DS wouldn't have much processing "grunt", especially since the vertical resolution is so low compared to an iPhone - it's more like a low-powered machine with clever graphical effects.

 

Also, I still say the DS was incredibly underpowered - definitely the worst graphics ever for a 3D machine - so the 3DS will be a massive improvement.

 

I don't think comparing the 3DS to the iPhone is a fair comparison, since the iPhone has to run a dedicated OS as well as play games.

 

The 3DS will be very good as a dedicated game system and will have much better battery life than the iPhone.

 

As I said before, comparing the 3DS to the iPhone isn't a fair comparison.

Edited September 22, 2010 by The Lillster

[Grazza]

I don't think comparing the 3DS to the iPhone is a fair comparison, since the iPhone has to run a dedicated OS as well as play games.

 

The 3DS will be very good as a dedicated game system and will have much better battery life than the iPhone.

 

As I said before, comparing the 3DS to the iPhone isn't a fair comparison.

 

It is, because I was talking about the vertical resolution.

 

Operating system or not, they both have a 3.5" widescreen. The iPhone was always 480 x 320, now it packs in an amazing 960 x 640, whereas the 3DS is a modest 800 x 240 (really 400 x 240). So yes, the 3DS will be much better than the iPhone because of the games and controls, but I'm not going to overestimate the technical specifications.

[Nolan]

While it still doesn't touch the iPhones resolution, don't forget about the touch screen at a measly 320x240.

[Chainclaw]

Paper Mario? Hells yes from me. Would think that would be awesome for a launch title. One of the games i'm really looking forward to. Well, make that one of the *many*. Oh so much to buy...

 

Or so much to ask for for Chrimbo! My girlfriend and family are asking me what I'd like. I'd never ask for something that will defo be over £150, but I'd trade in my DSi, get the trade-in money put on a gift card and give it to them to go towards it! All thought out, see? I think my fish will have to wait until the new year for a new stand for their tank if this comes out in November... but hey it's not as if they can see the stand anyway!

 

I can see a simultaneous launch creating some massive shortages...

 

Or maybe they'll have such huge stocks piled up so as not to have the same shortages as the Wii... either way, I'll be trading in that DSi and pre-ordering asap! Means I can't play Bowser's Inside Story but I'll just borrow the other half's DS Lite

[Owen]

Apparently next wednesdays 3DS event is for Japan only..with no confirmation/details for other regions...lovely.

[killer kirby]

Apparently next wednesdays 3DS event is for Japan only..with no confirmation/details for other regions...lovely.

 

If the one in Japan announce that 3DS is coming out worldwide during Nov/Dec, I really don't care if it's japan only.

[Ike]

Apparently next wednesdays 3DS event is for Japan only..with no confirmation/details for other regions...lovely.

 

I thought NoA were doing an event thing around the same time?

[Ashley]

There's never been any confirmation of European/American conferences, nor any mention of them being discussed during the Japanese one (to be fair, all Nintendo really said was "we'll give details on the 29th"), but rather just a load of hopeful fans presuming there would be one.

[ShadowV7]

All i've heard so far is that it's for Japanese press only. Not heard anything about Japan only details so far. Guess we wait and see. if we don't get mentioned, I reckon we won't have to wait to long for details on our part.

[Jamba]

Can anyone with a bit of know-how use the hardware list to estimate the price?

[Ashley]

[canand]

has anyone see this rubbish

 

German newspaper offers up Euro/Japanese release date, price for 3DS

 

 

- Nov. 11th in Japan

- Q1 2011 for Europe

- Mario Kart, Zelda OoT, Professor Layton at Euro launch

- 200€ price point

 

Just another rumor for the pile at the moment. I'm not sure where 'BILD' is getting its information, but we aren't that far off from finding out the real deal. Just a few more days away until the event!

[mcj metroid]

well to be fair it's not far off with some things. Its them guessing however I do think it will arrive in Q1 here, 200 euros.... launch games are just balls though.. where did they pull professor layton out of?

 

 

It'll most likely launch with zelda oot at least.

[canand]

well to be fair it's not far off with some things. Its them guessing however I do think it will arrive in Q1 here, 200 euros.... launch games are just balls though.. where did they pull professor layton out of?

 

 

It'll most likely launch with zelda oot at least.

 

we got the Nintendo Wii the same year as Japan and USA.

[ReZourceman]

DAZ IZT SPECULASHIANZ!!!!!!!!

[Will]

Can anyone with a bit of know-how use the hardware list to estimate the price?

 

I'd guess £150-£200, I wouldn't expect it to be too far from current DS price-points.

 

Hopefully we'll get some launch date news at this briefing or whatever it is. I'd love it if they get the thing out in at least one region before Christmas.

[Tellyn]

I was hoping that lowering the DSi/XL prices would lead to a price point nearer to the original RRP of both handhelds.

 

On another note, I'm praying that Nintendo will give it a matte finish. The glossiness was the one thing I hated about the 3DS, it makes it feel so cheap, and it's also a fingerprint magnet.

[Konfucius]

It's not the first rumour though about a release this year and according to kotaku the Bild was also correct about the Wiimote before the unveiling at TGS.

 

It would also fit into Nintendo's recent trend of unveiling stuff shortly before release.